DUST Search - Why we should have Respecs: Vet Perspective

Ninjanomyx wrote:

Proposal Revision 1.0:

1. Upon the 1.5 Update release, 1 Mass Respec (Be it Optional or Serverwide) should be provided. Only Lifetime SP and Skill Book ISK would be refunded. Patch Notes & ingame News Ticker/Info Tab upon login should note to players that specialization in each Type (IE: Light/Medium/Heavy Dropsuit & LAV/HAV/Dropship) are finalized, and those who did not yet receive a Racial Variant will receive a Partial SP Refund when the content becomes available.

Considering this is to be a major Vehicle & other content Update (Hopefully Vehicle Racial Variants & Pilot Dropsuit included), it would clear the slate for the following functions.

Side Note: SP Sinkholes should be locked. If Level 4 & 5 still have no Unlock/Bonus associated with them by now.....then you should not be able to allocate SP past the Level where Unlocks are attained. If not possible in 1.5 then hopefully by 1.6.

2. Hopefully by this point we may have revised Battle Academy. Upon exiting Battle Academy a player should be allotted 1 SP Respec within 30 Days. An onscreen notification/reminder would pop-up, informing the player of time remaining before the Respec expiration date, making sure to note it as a 1 time only availability. This should give the player ample time to research forums, form bonds, ask questions of Adepts & Vets, gather data, and maybe even join a Corporation.

This would disable the "Punishment Factor" for the new player without diminishing the value of the traditional MMO experience.

3. Partial SP Refund as each Racial Variant is released. At this point it would only apply to those who specialized in the specific Type being provided Racial Variants at the time. This would obviously have no effect on the Medium Frame Dropsuits as they already have their Racial Variants available. Should the Pilot Suit receive no Racial Variants as of 1.5 they would receive their Partial SP Refund along with the Light Dropsuit releases. The same applies to Heavy & Commando Dropsuits respectively.

4. Upon the alteration of the Skill Tree (IE: SP Sinkholes remedied, SP Value changes, Unlock alterations & Bonus applications) there should be a Partial SP Refund to the affected Skills.

I believe this set of proposals to be the most median/acceptable compromize between the feedbacks that were provided. Within the next day or 2, should this format be generally acceptable to the majority of subsequent posters, I will edit the opening post to reflect these alterations so as to generate feedback on the new proposal format.

This is a combined effort and I thank those of you who provided valuable feedback for your time & consideration. Your feedback was well received Cool


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Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 150	Posted - 2013.08.16 07:58:00 - [1] - Quote "I don't think this game is good enough yet" is a false dilemma. CCP doesn't have to be apologetic, not even to you. I'm OK with a respec a year, but it absolutely must cost Aurum. It would be like an optional subscription fee and everyone who doesn't have the patience to save up SP could at least put some money into this project. Plus, like you pointed out it would punish everyone who went FoTM in a month's time. Also it would be similar enough to Eve's attribute system. I don't understand how you have 22 mil SP and haven't figured out what you like. It sounds to me like you just want to train something to 5 RIGHT NOW, just like all the scrubs do. That is perfectly understandable, even I'll admit that grinding is a pain in the ass. However, it isn't exactly fair or noble. To someone like me with half your skill points that has invested them patiently, put in a lot of time in playing games, and spent a good amount of money in boosters, it really does take a huge amount of meaning out of this game. At your level you should know what kind of advantage you would gain. In fact I'm sure you do. Just play a few matches. Damn. Protostomp if you must. Because of your corp obligatory 10/10 if troll.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 151	Posted - 2013.08.16 09:43:00 - [2] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: If you believe a company does not have to be "apologetic" for a fatal flaw (IE: My baby carriage is faulty, malfunctioned, and my baby is dead)....then you sir are a rather uninformed, complacent, intellectually lacking, and terrible consumer/customer. Also read my previous response above this one in regards to yet another ignorant poster who assumed wrong as to my SP investments. These 2 points are indefinitely Irrelevant to the discussion. On the AUR per 1 year Respec I can agree as this would generate revenue for CCP without a frequency that entails "Pay-to-Win", should it be accepted by the majority. This would fit decently into Step 3 of my proposal. There is still no valid argument to devalue/alter Steps 1 & 2, as you surely have presented Nil in those regards. If I research until I understand a product that I'm putting money into, and then spend an exorbitant amount of time learning that product in and out so that I can execute it to mastery I am a terrible consumer Oh huh the reviews for this baby carriage are awful and the company that makes it is not very reputable for putting out quality products and because buying a baby carriage is of the equivalent level of importance to what I do in a free-to-play game I asked around and everyone tells me not to buy it I will go with another product instead. My child isn't dead and and as an ironically morbid metaphor my online video game character is happy and well off. It is a matter of responsibility, but I suppose people who play video games aren't expected to have a lot of it. I am STILL laughing at "intellectually lacking". It's like I'm in middle school again. Edit: I responded to 1 and 2 in my first sentence.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 151	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:11:00 - [3] - Quote xSaloLx wrote: The benefit of a respec is that it shows these imbalances almost immediately, whereas it might take weeks or months for people to be able abuse them anyway. "The benefit of a respec is that everyone can spec into/out of FoTM immediately, and I (the average merc) don't have to worry that I didn't think ahead and conserve SP before I do it myself." This man is your god.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 153	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:06:00 - [4] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: A product may or may not be noted of its flaws until sometimes many years after its production/release cycle. It may very well get boastful reviews and be sung songs of praises & honor until, on that fated day, the evils of said product come to light. You are rather shortsighted, like a horse with blinders, in not seeing the big picture as this scenario has been proven relevant time & again. EVE players, more often than not, provide ample E-Peen stroking for the CCP "Sweet Release. CCP makes DUST 514 and the Kool-Aid has set in so deep that those wide-eyed fanboys accept their ***-dipped fellatio sessions with a grin & a nod. As "Outsiders" we "Pure DUSTers" can objectively view the state of the game & take a look at the bigger picture. It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to see into the future, but to live in the moment, hope for the best, and fight for what we believe is right en masse. As for your "Edit" you provided nothing substantially constructive, nor destructive, in your first sentence.....thusly Invalidating said feedback. You have been learned I'm going to put what you said in the way that I understood it. "I refuse to take responsibility for my actions if another party is involved. I fall for the hype and marketing and therefore everyone else must have as well; therefore those who had the foresight to not be as gullible as I should feel just as entitled when my actions prove to be wrong. If they don't then clearly they are clearly the ones who were shortsighted, nay, blind because my perspective in perfectly justifiable. Allow me to use an example involving horse blinders, because narrowing a horse's field of view is the equivalent to being a responsible consumer. Don't those responsible consumers realize that the entitled ones are willing to break the system to my...er their advantage? If only the horse knew just how far you could stretch the world he's been given." I don't really understand this part. Something about Eve and then sucking? How did you get here from horse analogies? Besides I haven't played Eve in 2 months. I've been playing Dust. And apparently sucking CCP's by doing so. Sorry that I've invested serious time and effort into this game and I don't want to see it devalued. I stated that you created the false dilemma of CCP owing you a respec in points 1 and 2 of your OP. You did. CCP never said anything about players getting respecs when new content comes out. And respecs aren't required to make this game "complete". But apparently "I'm just going to say that your point isn't valid, so therefore it isn't." SMILEY FACE This is so fcking dumb. Respecs will give you (the vet) an unfair advantage and devalue SP. This game was not specifically made for NInjanomix, and it doesn't have to cater to you. It doesn't matter if respecs would make it "easier" or in your opinion "more correct". How do you not understand this? Do you buy "as seen on TV" products? No, they have a reputation for being cheap and short-lived. Do you buy new clothing and wear it for a week before you realize you don't have money for gas, so you return the clothes? No you plan a budget and priortize. Do you go to restaurant and eat your entire meal and then ask for your money back because you didn't like it? No, you order carefully then inspect your food upon arrival to see if it was properly prepared. Do you honestly believe that not owning up and paying like everyone else makes you more intelligent or open-minded? Ninjanomyx wrote: It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to plan or own up to consequences, but to live in the moment, ** around, be nonproductive, and then blame others in disbelief when things don't go his way. Fixed this for you. Fckin inspirational man. Make this your signature.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 155	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:43:00 - [5] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: At the very least you get a 4/10 for Trolling & an A for "Effort". Your lack of constructive criticism & relevant feedback has thusly labeled your input as void in regards to this discussion. Thanx for trying nonetheless, KthxBAI Ninjanomyx wrote: Your blatantly obvious non-constructive, troll post, full of Irrelevance has been duly noted & accounted for Ninjanomyx wrote: Thank you for not contributing to this discussion, your feedback is not welcome. Wow...some big words there for a 13 year old. How dare I not agree with you. If I offer a dissenting opinion then my feedback is not welcome. Everyone who agrees with you however gets a gold star. I can see why you're so convincing. You should get into politics. I did Talking down to people is a good tactic, especially on the internet where nobody can smack you for it. However, it loses its power when used over and over, especially when out of place. You asked for these people's feedback on your proposal, and they gave it. SURPRISE! Not everyone wants to lose their hard work so you can spec FoTM. If you don't want to get negative feedback, you probably shoudn't post about something controversial like this. Make a daily shtpost how stupid people sound when they want nerfs or buffs to weapons. That's what I do I invite you to come to this thread I made in response to yours, which I will be aptly bumping. Cheers. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 156	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:50:00 - [6] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: I'm a 22 Mil SP, 600 Mil ISK, Top 50 Killboard, Top 20 WP Board, Tanker Main w/ Minmatar Logi Sub who dabbled in Caldari Logi OP TAC AR Hacked EXO FOTM for ***** 'n giggles (All on just this Character). You obviously did not learn reading/comprehension if you are making these utterly ignorant assertions. You even further validate my point in your final "paragraph". You must also be new to DUST 514 if you did not know these facts and are now entitled to a Respec. You provided nothing valid to this discussion and have thusly been deemed Irrelevant I just love this one so much. Sounds like one of those "navy seal" copypastas. By the way I think my K/D is like 0.7. I've been playing this game since closed beta, too. I usually go positive in pubs but my K/D drops when I decide to start going into something different than what I'm used to.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 160	Posted - 2013.08.17 04:42:00 - [7] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Hardly 13 kid.....& I have shown the capacity to both accept & understand, even compromise with differing point of view. Those were well-delivered, effortfully thought out, constructive presentations. On the other hand.....there's YOU....an ignoramus who makes no effort to provide any form of considerable reasoning behind your position on the subject at hand. You are a Trollworthy peon with the discussive capacity of an infant and the argumentative capacity of a "Redneck".... Go back under the bridge you Irrelevant Poster Good to know I won this one. Thanks for your time.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 160	Posted - 2013.08.17 04:51:00 - [8] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: So simply because the "Medium Dropsuit Crew", whom were graced with 2 RESPEC OPPORTUNITIES to fit into their NEWFOUND OPTIONS, are content with their "Choices.....the rest can go FK themselves??? And THIS is what sways you??? So you take a completely rational/logical presentation and toss it aside simply b/c a SELFISH DK brings back the "HTFU" Trope??? You are the worst kind of "Swing Voter".....I await the day Neo **** gets voted into US Presidency for simply saying "C'mon" like FKING Peter Griffin...... Oh OK so I was right all along you were trolling. Unless you're serious about calling someone you failed to convince a "swing voter". Disagreeing with you on a video game forum is apparently indicative of how they would vote in US presidency elections. That would make this twice as funny.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 163	Posted - 2013.08.17 09:30:00 - [9] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: 1. Midas Fool - As he has the vast majority of post responses it has skewed the display, thus making it seem as if I responded negativity on a consistent basis. This was a case of "Trolling the Troll", as I oddly have fun watching them "Try" while simultaneously pointing them out and keeping them engaged. After all.....there's always at least 1 of these. And as we all know, a discussion ain't a discussion without a Troll Meh I really wasn't trolling. I was completely serious...and my arguement was essentially the same as the last post, albeit John Demonsbane was able to sum his up quite a bit better. And you weren't being "negative". You were showing everyone that you truly could not be rational. As I pointed out, everyone who agreed with you in the slightest you gave a pat on the ass, and everyone who disagreed you insulted and rejected their feedback. Still after your post has been buried, you refuse to acknowledge that your ideas were possibly rejectable and the best you can do is insult again. In fact you do this in every single post you reply to. If you disagree you just insult them and call them trolls. And if anything this thread gave me a chuckle or two and something to these last couple days. I did that all 100% straight faced. I only respond because this does kind of push my buttons. I don't like being called a troll for being lighthearted. I'm glad that this last response helped you calm down and try your best to save yourself.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 163	Posted - 2013.08.17 09:48:00 - [10] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Proposal Revision 1.0: 1. Upon the 1.5 Update release, 1 Mass Respec (Be it Optional or Serverwide) should be provided. Only Lifetime SP and Skill Book ISK would be refunded. Patch Notes & ingame News Ticker/Info Tab upon login should note to players that specialization in each Type (IE: Light/Medium/Heavy Dropsuit & LAV/HAV/Dropship) are finalized, and those who did not yet receive a Racial Variant will receive a Partial SP Refund when the content becomes available. Considering this is to be a major Vehicle & other content Update (Hopefully Vehicle Racial Variants & Pilot Dropsuit included), it would clear the slate for the following functions. Side Note: SP Sinkholes should be locked. If Level 4 & 5 still have no Unlock/Bonus associated with them by now.....then you should not be able to allocate SP past the Level where Unlocks are attained. If not possible in 1.5 then hopefully by 1.6. 2. Hopefully by this point we may have revised Battle Academy. Upon exiting Battle Academy a player should be allotted 1 SP Respec within 30 Days. An onscreen notification/reminder would pop-up, informing the player of time remaining before the Respec expiration date, making sure to note it as a 1 time only availability. This should give the player ample time to research forums, form bonds, ask questions of Adepts & Vets, gather data, and maybe even join a Corporation. This would disable the "Punishment Factor" for the new player without diminishing the value of the traditional MMO experience. 3. Partial SP Refund as each Racial Variant is released. At this point it would only apply to those who specialized in the specific Type being provided Racial Variants at the time. This would obviously have no effect on the Medium Frame Dropsuits as they already have their Racial Variants available. Should the Pilot Suit receive no Racial Variants as of 1.5 they would receive their Partial SP Refund along with the Light Dropsuit releases. The same applies to Heavy & Commando Dropsuits respectively. 4. Upon the alteration of the Skill Tree (IE: SP Sinkholes remedied, SP Value changes, Unlock alterations & Bonus applications) there should be a Partial SP Refund to the affected Skills. I believe this set of proposals to be the most median/acceptable compromize between the feedbacks that were provided. Within the next day or 2, should this format be generally acceptable to the majority of subsequent posters, I will edit the opening post to reflect these alterations so as to generate feedback on the new proposal format. This is a combined effort and I thank those of you who provided valuable feedback for your time & consideration. Your feedback was well received Oh very cool. I like this one a LOT better. 1. Nah. CCP announced it a few weeks ago, and people have a few months to prepare. But debatable. 2. Sure. I support empowering new players. Vets not so much (thats trolling lelele ) 3. Eh...debatable. But I learned my lesson with you. I'd say it comes down to when CCP announces these things. 4. Sure in this situation you're absolutely entitled to a refund, but not a respec. So 2.5/4 of this one and 1/3 of your original. That was my two cents. You asked for 'em, and you got 'em. I'd say we all learned something from this awful thread. Now call me a troll again. Just know that that imp tag makes you really hard to take seriously.

Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 163	Posted - 2013.08.17 10:46:00 - [11] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: "I don't think this game is good enough yet" is a false dilemma. CCP doesn't have to be apologetic, not even to you. I'm OK with a respec a year, but it absolutely must cost Aurum. It would be like an optional subscription fee and everyone who doesn't have the patience to save up SP could at least put some money into this project. Plus, like you pointed out it would punish everyone who went FoTM in a month's time. Also it would be similar enough to Eve's attribute system. I don't understand how you have 22 mil SP and haven't figured out what you like. It sounds to me like you just want to train something to 5 RIGHT NOW, just like all the scrubs do. That is perfectly understandable, even I'll admit that grinding is a pain in the ass. However, it isn't exactly fair or noble. To someone like me with half your skill points that has invested them patiently, put in a lot of time in playing games, and spent a good amount of money in boosters, it really does take a huge amount of meaning out of this game. At your level you should know what kind of advantage you would gain. In fact I'm sure you do. Just play a few matches. Damn. Protostomp if you must. Because of your corp obligatory 10/10 if troll. Here you go. I don't really know why I still care...but I should explain myself. First sentence: you've created a false dilemma as the basis for your argument. My "two cents" response. Not trolling. Second sentence: Yeah, that's an ad hominem. My bad. Not a troll, though. Third and fourth sentences: I'm trying to see things your way. Not a troll. Fifth and sixth sentences: Why I don't see this your way/my argument. Not a troll. Seventh sentence: Ad hominem. My bad. Couldn't resist. Remember how I said talking down is powerful? Eighth sentence: My solution for you. Guess I should've been more specific (guess I should've coddled you). Last sentence: Yep. This ad hominem is intentional. You want to look like an ass hang out with some of them. I guess you did troll me. Congrats. You got me to dissect my own argument a hundred times and bump your post in the process. I didn't mind. I hope it brings attention to this so that CCP can tell us whether or not we're getting a respec. That way I can write stuff down so I put all my points back where they were and head out to fight some FoTMers. Sigh...moral high ground? For being straightforward? Remember when I accused you of "I'm just gonna say your argument is invalid and therefore it is"? You are very guilty of this. In fact, its kinda all you do. Doesn't work here, man. Or at least it shouldn't... Disagreeing with you doesn't qualify me for the title of "fanboy". Also "Claims" and "Logic" were amusing to me. 10/10. Maybe I should have included something along the lines of "whenever CCP decides to get around to it" to get a pat on the ass from you. Being edgy over a video game is just as bad as being a fanboy. Now that this petty insult fight is over with, what do you have against Ironwolf (or CPM 0 for that matter), anyway?
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 165	Posted - 2013.08.17 12:32:00 - [12] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: The "Racism" remark was to example the situation. I have a tendency to not go "OMG ARABIC BOMBER!!!" when I see any Habibi, Persian, etc. You judged me from a Tag, hence the example. And, should you care to backtrack, you would notice I only "Neg'd" those who came off abrasive, non-constructive, deconstructive, and/or counterproductive.....hence "Case-by-Case Basis". There were a few posters who did show obvious resistance, without the aforementioned "Negativity", and I gave them a "Gold Star". I suppose my initially intended "Counter-Trolling" was a tad too effective, as it seems you had only focused on the "Negative Backlash" as opposed to the "Big Picture, hence "Horse with Blinders" & "Tunnel Vision"..... As for the CPM0??? I have not much at all against them as a whole. As for IWS??? As you can see....when presented with logic & civility I deliver the same in return. He has (As far as most of the Posts/Suggestions I see from him.....), more often than not, presented terrible balancing proposals (Especially in regards to Vehicles.....), displayed a persistent lack of logic/coherence, made assertions and irrelevant statements (DCUO examples galore in this Topic for immediate reference.....), and is noted as a CCP "Apologist". I feel these are terrible qualities for a "Representative", as some one who is "Helping" to shape DUST 514, and as a Gamer under the "Public Eye". I consider him a "Hardcore Wannabee" Casual Gamer. I'm sure he may be a "Good" person overall.....but he often exudes an air of "DEE DEE DEE" & "HERP DERP" in the manner which he presents himself on a somewhat regular basis.... The judging you based on your corp is much more about the business politics part of the whole Eve/Dust game. I don't think that its appropriate at all to elevate it to Racism, especially Racism having to do the terrorism in the last decade...just like it isn't appropriate to equate planning the aloccation of SP in a video game to buying a crib that might kill an infant. YOU ARE AN IMP. Your alliance in both games is notorious for making them a generally miserable experience for anyone who isn't part of it. You knew that when you applied. The rest of the paragraph is irrelevant. I get it, you don't like it when people disagree with you. We're over this. Come on. Your standing your ground, good for you. Don't expect everyone to be "complacent". I already gave your refined ideas positive remarks. As for IWS, he got what he deserved for even bringing up DCUO. That's what happens when you pull examples out of your ass. I have nothing against IWS (in fact, I usually like his posting), but in light of the recent doomsay I just want to be well-informed of CPM politics, especially from someone I don't seem to agree with. What are his poorly proposed vehicle/balance changes? I'm not defending him, I seriously want to know a few examples. Also he might not represent you but perhaps another CPM member does. Besides it's not like you or I had anything to do with his election, so we aren't really entitled to decide whether he is representative or not. Disliking his personality is just nitpicking, especially if it's about his levity. I do agree that the CPM should really consider how they act, because they are the one thing that is truly unique about this game/company; they are being observed more than they know.