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What is the CPM's views on Tiercide?

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gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 3074	Posted - 2013.08.11 18:14:00 - [1] - Quote I would like to ask where the various CPM members stand on the tiercide idea. It's been buzzing around lately and we've seen some posts from IWS on the subject, I was just curios as to what the other CPM members thought of the issue. For those who have no clue as to what I'm talking about here's a list of every tiercide thread I know of The removal of tiers (GD version) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098356#post1098356 The removal of tiers (F&S version) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098674#post1098674 Cat Merc's invasion pla- I mean guide to save dust https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97244 Introduce a tech system instead of a tier system https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1164173#post1164173 Tiercide https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=100779
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7146	Posted - 2013.08.12 01:42:00 - [2] - Quote I currently do not know the current fate of that plan though but there was talks about some 'trimming' and the sorts but these are secondary to other factors such as racial completion and the poorly thought out bonusing system. Last time I checked most of the CPM had mixed views for various reasons for against and in the middle.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 827	Posted - 2013.08.12 10:28:00 - [3] - Quote Dumbing down the game because its too hard and complicated If i want to play BF3 where everyone has the same gear and equipment i will put in BF3
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 3091	Posted - 2013.08.12 14:48:00 - [4] - Quote It's not dumbing down, it's making the game more complicated. right now the game follows the basic rule that "proto is better", implementing a system like this would mean that a specific suit does a better job at a specific job, while another suit does another job better. Hence we go from the one key fits all locks that is the current system to using a certain key for a certain lock. This system promts experimenting with fits and suits rather than just maxing EHP and damage mods on every suit.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 64	Posted - 2013.08.12 17:52:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: The dev blog we put out on Tuesday was our Uprising + the Future dev blog. If you want a more detailed look at our roadmap, here are the things we'll be working on over the coming months. Upgrading the New Player Experience so you have greater context, immersion, and are better prepared to survive in DUST. Improving controls for aiming Balancing Instant Battles so players are matched better Making sure all battles hit a consistent 30 FPS minimum for our current max battle sizes Improving vehicle movement Balancing vehicles so each has a role and is balanced both versus other vehicles and infantry Improving infantry movement Making getting into battles provide more context about what's going on, why you're fighting, etc. Improving Planetary Conquest and making it more meaningful and interesting to be involved with Improving Factional Warfare, making it more interesting, and rewarding players who are loyal to a faction somehow Fixing bugs and exploits Improving overall gear balancing so there is no "best" choice and there are tactical choices to make Improving situational awareness tools through the UI Improving the fitting experience through UI and better integration with the market There are also things that are not high level roadmap stuff that we'll be working on. Stuff like the addition of snow in Uprising 1.2 is a good example of this. For example, we have some other graphical improvements coming in 1.3, such as some changes to sites and scopes to improve visibility in certain environments, which are not "Roadmap" items but are still important fixes nonetheless. We don't have set-in-stone dates for when certain things are coming. It's also not really possible to share the nitty gritty details of each roadmap item at the moment, for a variety of reasons. On one point it said improving gear balance so one choice isn't inherently better than the other. I would think the post is talking about tiers .
howard sanchez spliff's channel 650	Posted - 2013.08.12 18:34:00 - [6] - Quote This thread right here represents a golden opportunity for CCP to just TRY the open communication approach! CCP Frame or Wang or Nullibor (sp)could wade in here and say," ok, players...we here your interest in match balancing and game improvement via the tiered gear approach. Here are our thoughts about why it would or wouldn't work..." Then they could say," current active player base and matchmaking result in indivual matches launching every 30seconds [or whatever it is..but TELL US! Don't be a scared!]. And if we break up matches according to gear or other restrictions we might see matches starting every 120 seconds [or whatever...but Tell Us...use data!]. Or they could say," we like the Gear Tier idea but our concerns are these: 1), 2), 3)... OR CCP could do what they are doing....NOTHING. That's not true at all, is it CCP? You're not really doing nothing. You just make it seem that way by saying nothing about what you're doing. Perception=90% of reality. Sink or swim, CCP. But you will drown if you insist that this is not really water you are breathing.
Adelia Lafayette DUST University Ivy League 163	Posted - 2013.08.12 20:02:00 - [7] - Quote I want this so much.
Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 10	Posted - 2013.08.12 21:40:00 - [8] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dumbing down the game because its too hard and complicated If i want to play BF3 where everyone has the same gear and equipment i will put in BF3 The idea is mimicking EVEs system - when I started playing DUST I wondered why they kept the fitting system but over simplified the tier and bonus system tbh. So yes - totally agree with the premise IWS put forward; the focus should be leaning towards a definition/specialisation approach rather than an over simplified 'same suit more slots' focus they have now.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7173	Posted - 2013.08.13 00:17:00 - [9] - Quote This is not dumbing down the the game. It is eliminating stupid choices and replacing it with 'interesting' choices.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3102	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:20:00 - [10] - Quote OP updated with 2 new threads on the subject.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 830	Posted - 2013.08.13 09:37:00 - [11] - Quote Its dumbing the game down Less choice, less options so its dumbing it down You can say all the EVE things you like but for the main fighting stuff in EVE they still use the same fleets unless a FOTM ship setup comes into it All what will happen is FOTM fits Also vehicle users will get the short end of the straw aswell, we dont even have advanced let alone proto mods/hulls so chances are we get stuck with the same old gunlogi/maddy up against proto AV but because its tiercide then infantry will just 3dmg mod it out the ass with lolOPswarms every ******* game Its dumbing down simple as Back in the days when i used basic it was to find a fit i liked then tweek it as i worked for adv/proto If everyone is already at proto then why are we playing? If its even out the playing field then whatever happened to new eden and HTFU? Its dumbing the game down and making it easier, less choice less fits
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 1164	Posted - 2013.08.13 12:06:00 - [12] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its dumbing the game down Less choice, less options so its dumbing it down You can say all the EVE things you like but for the main fighting stuff in EVE they still use the same fleets unless a FOTM ship setup comes into it All what will happen is FOTM fits Also vehicle users will get the short end of the straw aswell, we dont even have advanced let alone proto mods/hulls so chances are we get stuck with the same old gunlogi/maddy up against proto AV but because its tiercide then infantry will just 3dmg mod it out the ass with lolOPswarms every ***** game Its dumbing down simple as Back in the days when i used basic it was to find a fit i liked then tweek it as i worked for adv/proto If everyone is already at proto then why are we playing? If its even out the playing field then whatever happened to new eden and HTFU? Its dumbing the game down and making it easier, less choice less fits Even playing field OVERALL, yes. BUT: In CQC, there will be those who are better. At long range, there will be those who are better. But 'those who are better' at x or z or y will be those who have THOUGHT (oh my god, no way, it's a thinking man's shooter!) about what they want to be good at. No more simply telling yourself "okay, I want to be good at sniping, so I'll get a prototype sniper". Instead, thought process becomes "okay, I want to snipe. Where do I want to snipe from? The hills? Okay, so I want a dropsuit with a bonus to sniper sway. Okay, now I have a choice between light and medium. I think I'll go with light, so I can reposition faster, and because I won't be sniping from places that people can sneak up on. Now, my sniper. I tend to go for headshots, so I want a sniper with a sway reduction bonus on top of my dropsuit. Also, now I want nanohives for resupplying my weapon. I want a hive that doesn't glow, so I don't get spotted because of it." I mention some items that aren't even in-game right now, but sound damn cool to have. The point of tiercide is that the SP sink won't make newbies faint when they begin, and still provide a challenge to veterans who want to specialise because skills for individual weapons (even individual variants if we wanted to go that far) will cost a hell of a lot to maximise. Also, FotM fits will be easily balanced because now, everything has a base level to compare against, instead of multiple tiers. But I agree with Mr. sanchez here: howard sanchez wrote:** This thread right here represents a golden opportunity for CCP to just TRY the open communication approach! If anything, CPM0, at least get some opinions from CCP to share with us on this matter. We are aware we are only players, and perhaps there is one or multiple reasons why this idea is absolutely impossible to implement. Tell us what they are, so we can adjust the proposal accordingly instead of bumping our heads against a brick wall.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 830	Posted - 2013.08.13 13:33:00 - [13] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its dumbing the game down Less choice, less options so its dumbing it down You can say all the EVE things you like but for the main fighting stuff in EVE they still use the same fleets unless a FOTM ship setup comes into it All what will happen is FOTM fits Also vehicle users will get the short end of the straw aswell, we dont even have advanced let alone proto mods/hulls so chances are we get stuck with the same old gunlogi/maddy up against proto AV but because its tiercide then infantry will just 3dmg mod it out the ass with lolOPswarms every ******* game Its dumbing down simple as Back in the days when i used basic it was to find a fit i liked then tweek it as i worked for adv/proto If everyone is already at proto then why are we playing? If its even out the playing field then whatever happened to new eden and HTFU? Its dumbing the game down and making it easier, less choice less fits Even playing field OVERALL, yes. BUT: In CQC, there will be those who are better. At long range, there will be those who are better. But 'those who are better' at x or z or y will be those who have THOUGHT (oh my god, no way, it's a thinking man's shooter!) about what they want to be good at. No more simply telling yourself "okay, I want to be good at sniping, so I'll get a prototype sniper". Instead, thought process becomes "okay, I want to snipe. Where do I want to snipe from? The hills? Okay, so I want a dropsuit with a bonus to sniper sway. Okay, now I have a choice between light and medium. I think I'll go with light, so I can reposition faster, and because I won't be sniping from places that people can sneak up on. Now, my sniper. I tend to go for headshots, so I want a sniper with a sway reduction bonus on top of my dropsuit. Also, now I want nanohives for resupplying my weapon. I want a hive that doesn't glow, so I don't get spotted because of it." I mention some items that aren't even in-game right now, but sound damn cool to have. The point of tiercide is that the SP sink won't make newbies faint when they begin, and still provide a challenge to veterans who want to specialise because skills for individual weapons (even individual variants if we wanted to go that far) will cost a hell of a lot to maximise. Also, FotM fits will be easily balanced because now, everything has a base level to compare against, instead of multiple tiers. So then all suits are proto and you need about 10proto suits for each rach due to how many playing styles ther are and bonuses to boot, vehicle wise we need 10sets of hulls with diff bonuses for each playing style As it is we have 4 suits proto with bonuses, the rest is how you fit it up and deal and it gives you the flexibity to chop and change If you want diff suits with diff bonuses they could just add them now, that way if you try something out at basic level and dont like it at least you found out early while if you did like it you can practise and improve on it I really dont care if everyone is on a level playing field because the whole point of this game was so it wasnt level, basic trying to kill proto feels good if you pull it off but everyone is the same it sucks, i might aswell pop in bf3 if i want a level playing field HTFU does not exist in DUST
Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2013.08.13 18:01:00 - [14] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its dumbing the game down Less choice, less options so its dumbing it down You can say all the EVE things you like but for the main fighting stuff in EVE they still use the same fleets unless a FOTM ship setup comes into it All what will happen is FOTM fits Also vehicle users will get the short end of the straw aswell, we dont even have advanced let alone proto mods/hulls so chances are we get stuck with the same old gunlogi/maddy up against proto AV but because its tiercide then infantry will just 3dmg mod it out the ass with lolOPswarms every ******* game Its dumbing down simple as Back in the days when i used basic it was to find a fit i liked then tweek it as i worked for adv/proto If everyone is already at proto then why are we playing? If its even out the playing field then whatever happened to new eden and HTFU? Its dumbing the game down and making it easier, less choice less fits TL;DR I get the impression some people see tiercide and think 'why you hating on my proto!?' - it's not about your proto suit, it's about everyone finding themselves having only Proto versions of suits to look forward to. The only benefit of which is to compete with other proto or to stomp non proto. I don't understand - naturally more slots mean more fitting options- I can understand that much. As for choice though - no one is going to go 'hmmm looking at all the suits the best suit for my playstyle is ADV Mini scout - not STD, not Proto - ADV. If I train x,y,z skills - I can make this suit work for me the way I want to play. What we have in DUST right now is a lvl system - protos are simply higher level version of ADV there is no strengths or specialities to focus on as you continue to lvl up - you can simply do more and better on the suits you are wearing. That is not the same as having different suits with different bonuses and getting better at a particular role. A proto mini scout doesn't do better at CQC than a STD - it does EVERYTHING better than STD- it gets exactly the same knife bonus as a STD, but with extra slots you can just do more. The verticality of DUSTs progression system is vastly oversimplified compared to a more horizontal system that allows players to have a basic 'versatile' suit that can get better as you specialise in more role focused variations of said suit. I imagine that is at least part of the reason why we have a situation where we have levels of skills that offer little more than an SP sink as you get to the suit you want and worst, skills that offer literally NOTHING for skilling past a particular level. An EVE system would mean skilling into dropsuit skills for Minnie scout gives me a good base to train for other mini suits or other scouts suits - currently if I spec for proto mini scouts I can go to...ADV mini light frames? Whoop. Your comment about vehicles...I don't really understand. Everyone knows vehicles and AV need to and will be changed - the principle behind tiercide doesn't apply to just infantry. On the comment about EVE fleets, I won't pretend to know about meaningful large fleet composition - but I will tell you that lots of players play EVE, have fun and might never actually choose to engage in any direct conflict (though that doesn't stop their ships dying to to the large cannons of other players) - if we balance and design the whole game around pub and PC - well I suspect many will leave DUST. I'd advise anyone wanting a game balanced around lobby shooter mechanics to simply play many of the other, frankly great competitive FPS games that already exist.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7217	Posted - 2013.08.13 18:38:00 - [15] - Quote Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders 534	Posted - 2013.08.14 03:58:00 - [16] - Quote What about everyone else? Nova? Kain? Hans?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 836	Posted - 2013.08.14 11:15:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads. Bollocks I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST?
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass 662	Posted - 2013.08.16 02:40:00 - [18] - Quote There's a lot of whining about "dumbing down the game" but I personally think its incredibly important for weapons, dropsuits, and vehicles alike to specialize at higher levels of SP investment, not just be flat-out more powerful. This sentiment is already shared by CCP as well, though it remains to be seen how much of this is put into practice in the coming balancing passes. I raised the importance of specialization > greater power level as recently as our talks with Greyscale about the Battle Academy hanges, because in my opinion the power gap between standard and proto gear is as much a side effect of the current state of dropsuit and weapon design as it is a side effect of a weak matchmaking system. I also have zero issue with forcing gear quality choice when fitting - I am not one of those that believes its every merc's god-given right to PROTO EVERYTHING. Proto suits should be capable of fitting a few pieces of proto gear, but I think having to choose between maximizing tank, gank, or support capability is absolutely healthy and would go a long way towards creating a more balanced play environment. And Takashiro - "cuz EVE" doesn't fly with me as justification for design choice. This is a very different game, with a limited number of on-field players, so the gap in quality between the gear fielded is much more critical in terms of its effect on fun game play. "Tiericide" isn't excellent for Dust simply because it worked for EVE Online, it would be excellent for Dust because more parity in power level is desperately needed, especially in public matches.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7354	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:09:00 - [19] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its dumbing the game down Less choice, less options so its dumbing it down You can say all the EVE things you like but for the main fighting stuff in EVE they still use the same fleets unless a FOTM ship setup comes into it All what will happen is FOTM fits Also vehicle users will get the short end of the straw aswell, we dont even have advanced let alone proto mods/hulls so chances are we get stuck with the same old gunlogi/maddy up against proto AV but because its tiercide then infantry will just 3dmg mod it out the ass with lolOPswarms every ******* game Its dumbing down simple as Back in the days when i used basic it was to find a fit i liked then tweek it as i worked for adv/proto If everyone is already at proto then why are we playing? If its even out the playing field then whatever happened to new eden and HTFU? Its dumbing the game down and making it easier, less choice less fits Let me fully explain this. Currently there Four Races Each race is planned to have Three Weights of Suits, Light Medium and Heavy, Each Weight is expected to have 3 specializations including basic, each specialization has 3 options basic advanced prototype. 4x3x3x3 108 Suits Dust 514 is limited to the following restraints in varying degrees. 1-2 weapons 0-1 Grenades 0-5 High slots 0-5 Low slots 0-4 Equipment Every new useless suit we add steals away a slot configuration. Slots are pretty important weighted stat in Dust 514. Both eve and dust 514 try to avoid using the same slot layout because CPU and Grid and even bonuses cannot prevent easily discourage of fitting one suit to fit exactly the same as the other thus negating the most interesting portions of that suit the Role and bonuses how awkward would be it a gallente and caldari suit have the slot layout... no boring! Now you may be a bigger math wizard than me and say wait IWS those slot numbers you put out allow for a large number of combinations. That would be true if you didn't have the next restriction. Basic, Advanced, and Prototype are locked into their slot allocations as well. While there is one suit exception right now the commando. The scouts, lights, heavies, and pilots which have their own restrictions. Now lets fast forward, CCP introduces Type 2 Suits with new models and new roles within each specialization. 216+ suits (because chances are we're going to be at multiple new specializations lets say 4, Crusader and Command Suits are probably both heavy suits) so 500+ suits total. Congratulations we just exhausted all the possible basic suit slot layouts. 40%-66% of those suits NOBODY will want to wear but only be forced when first training the up. Tell me are you in a protosuit now? when was the last time you went back to basic suit of the same class and stuck with it? So this makes about nearly 1000 suits nearly useless as well because we have to include militia grade, and neo grade and whatever new microtransaction types they add in. 1000s of boring choices is a real serious problem for both veterans and rookies alike as suits become trivial and are simply reduced to simple awful existence best stated as "why do I exist?" Now do a balance pass on all that. An analogy best suited for this case is Prius vs Prius which choice is more interesting? The C the LE the P the E the S the v models? Wouldn't you rather have FR-S, Corolla, Tundra VS Mustang, Taurus, and F-150 instead? Under Tericide 4 Races 3 weight classes even with 5 Specializations each hell lets go 8 for neos and militia variants 96 Interesting Choices each unique and suited best for what its supposed to, easier to balance, no need to curve far easier to balance because at most you have to balance is 4 suits(the role) and at least 1 (specific problem) in the whole puzzle. Type II? No problem 180 Suits Teiricide will allow for best growth of players, choices, and design of future suits. Also you're an idiot to bring vehicles into this they're already pre-teiricide. There is no need to prototype or advance them at all if we get rid of suits having prototype and advanced variants and stick with Technology 1 and Technology 2 progressions. HTFU still heavily applies as you are now given that one suit and expected to make the most of it with that suit, you can still utterly fail at fitting skill planning and just lack of any sensibilities can and will still get anyone killed in this game. Under the purposed model I have a veteran can and will still gear gap a new player, as newer players into that role cannot instantly fit prototype/advanced mix fits and will have to resort to using basic gear to make viable fits when training up a new suit for the first time. Finally this is the councillor's chambers come in here with a far stronger argument next time as around here its far less shooting the wind and much more serious business here. I welcome debates but one liners won't cut it here as easily.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7354	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:24:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads. Bollocks I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST? Because Eve doesn't operate on the Basic, Advanced, Prototype marinda. Nor does eve operate on Breach, Flux, Gauged, Assault, Hacked, Tactical, Specialist variants either (though that would be cool for eve to pick up) Also I take you just battleclinic most of your fits instead of going out and dying in something you slapped together on your own. You would have realized Eve online has an epic crap ton of fitting nuances even at max fitting skills.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 885	Posted - 2013.08.18 13:26:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads. Bollocks I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST? Because Eve doesn't operate on the Basic, Advanced, Prototype marinda. Nor does eve operate on Breach, Flux, Gauged, Assault, Hacked, Tactical, Specialist variants either (though that would be cool for eve to pick up) Also I take you just battleclinic most of your fits instead of going out and dying in something you slapped together on your own. You would have realized Eve online has an epic crap ton of fitting nuances even at max fitting skills. Wrong again When you you assume you make an ass out of you but not me Tiercide in EVE is different to DUST Best thing with EVE is basically everything out out now Also meta levels are the tiers tbh, look at cloaking in EVE, the mods we have are 3 basic/advanaced/proto would you look at that In DUST we dont have everything In DUST vehicles dont even have adv/proto hulls and mods yet infantry which is all the CPM and 99% of the playerbase have basically the majority of ther stuff upto proto level If tiercide comes in vehicles will get shafted and why because we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls so we would end up with prob gunlogi and madrugars as our proto hulls but get 1 shotted by proto AV lol Not too mention we lose basic/adv things which would either never be used or just scrapped
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3177	Posted - 2013.08.18 14:59:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads. Bollocks I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST? Because Eve doesn't operate on the Basic, Advanced, Prototype marinda. Nor does eve operate on Breach, Flux, Gauged, Assault, Hacked, Tactical, Specialist variants either (though that would be cool for eve to pick up) Also I take you just battleclinic most of your fits instead of going out and dying in something you slapped together on your own. You would have realized Eve online has an epic crap ton of fitting nuances even at max fitting skills. Wrong again When you you assume you make an ass out of you but not me Tiercide in EVE is different to DUST Best thing with EVE is basically everything out out now Also meta levels are the tiers tbh, look at cloaking in EVE, the mods we have are 3 basic/advanaced/proto would you look at that In DUST we dont have everything In DUST vehicles dont even have adv/proto hulls and mods yet infantry which is all the CPM and 99% of the playerbase have basically the majority of ther stuff upto proto level If tiercide comes in vehicles will get shafted and why because we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls so we would end up with prob gunlogi and madrugars as our proto hulls but get 1 shotted by proto AV lol Not too mention we lose basic/adv things which would either never be used or just scrapped From the sheer ignorance in this post I'm just going to assume that you haven't read any of the linked threads at all. The main point of this tiercide idea is to remove proto, and advanced gears AKA tiered gear in its current form, FROM THE GAME. I bolded, italic'd, underlined, and even capitaled part of that to make sure you got the picture. Proto gear would be gone, no traces left whatsoever, current gear would the basic gear, the baseline, the exceptions being the specialised variants such as logi's, sentinel, assaults, which would acquire whatever stat, bonus changes required to make them the best at their role. Basic suits would become the most flexible in fittings, with certain variants offering a small bonus to a particular line of work. I would advocate modules remaining the same but with either increased CPU/PG costs at higher levels or less PG/CPU to use in the first place, this is to force players to compromise, to stop them putting the best modules in every slot, choose whether you tank or whether you gank, otherwise what it's like to fit a tank fit now. Vehicles would actually benefit the most from this change, we already don't have tiered hulls, so no work needs to be done there, we might actually benefit from increased bonus's depending on how the devs switch things up. The most direct benefit we would see however, is the direct removal of proto AV from the field, personally in this system I would set us up with the ADV AV as the new basic AV, since from my own experience and from what I hear of other vehicles users experience ADV seems to offer the best balance between the infantry's DPS and vehicles survivability, ideally we would see specialised variants that do increased damage to a certain tank but less to the other or some other drawback, we need to keep these things balanced. From what you've written in this post and others I have to assume one of three things 1) you haven't read any of those threads 2) you're trolling for some reason 3) you're an idiot
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 894	Posted - 2013.08.19 10:15:00 - [23] - Quote Removal of gear so less choice simple as ive said this before you denied it even tho im right Vehicles get shafted simple as, we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls and until they are introduced get **** infantryman, i want to see adv/proto mods/hulls and test them out against proto AV 1st because if this tiercide goes through when all the pieces of the puzzle aint in place then vehicles will get **** over Instead we get shafted with a maddy and gunlogi type b with some buffed stats but prob isnt anywhere near what a proto should be Yeah right removal of proto AV good luck with that, how many proto lolswarms crutch users are they who love them in this broken state and can take out all vehicles without trying or aiming or risking anything, even you defend the crutch users when they are clearly broken
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7493	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:32:00 - [24] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Removal of gear so less choice simple as ive said this before you denied it even tho im right Vehicles get shafted simple as, we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls and until they are introduced get **** infantryman, i want to see adv/proto mods/hulls and test them out against proto AV 1st because if this tiercide goes through when all the pieces of the puzzle aint in place then vehicles will get **** over Instead we get shafted with a maddy and gunlogi type b with some buffed stats but prob isnt anywhere near what a proto should be Yeah right removal of proto AV good luck with that, how many proto lolswarms crutch users are they who love them in this broken state and can take out all vehicles without trying or aiming or risking anything, even you defend the crutch users when they are clearly broken Shafted? You do know that any form of Teiricide will require rebalancing.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 160	Posted - 2013.08.20 02:33:00 - [25] - Quote +1 iam in support of teiricide but iam curious as to why vehicles would get the shaft from it, if teiricide happens then vehicles are to the same quality of AV say if the new norm was standard then tanks would only be against AV of the same lvl as the tank unless T2(specialised so something designed to only kill tanks seems likely T2 AV)becomes a thing of course. But all in all everything would be balanced on a level playing field the thing thats shafting tanks right now is proto AV with no equivelent tank wise then what would the issue be even if it was op in some way then it could be balenced a lot easier with no tiers. I could be missing something if i am please tell us iam curious.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 934	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:48:00 - [26] - Quote We dont have adv/proto mods or hulls yet If tiercide happened now or even before we ever get our stuff we would end up with the tanks we have now, useless and severly UP against all types of AV as it is now Its why adv/proto is needed so it can be tested against adv/proto AV Everything infantry is basically done but because infantry dont give a ** about vehicles which is apperent throughout the game/forums and CPM we would defo get ****
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3236	Posted - 2013.08.20 17:35:00 - [27] - Quote You seem to forget the fact that balance is an ongoing thing, tiercide would recover a game wide balance pass, in other words. Tanks would likely end up being buffed or changed as balancing requires. Assuming that ADV or proto hulls would magically solve things is ********, the fact that you haven't realised this yet makes 3) seem the most likely reason you're still posting badly about this.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7549	Posted - 2013.08.20 18:37:00 - [28] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We dont have adv/proto mods or hulls yet If tiercide happened now or even before we ever get our stuff we would end up with the tanks we have now, useless and severly UP against all types of AV as it is now Its why adv/proto is needed so it can be tested against adv/proto AV Everything infantry is basically done but because infantry dont give a ** about vehicles which is apperent throughout the game/forums and CPM we would defo get **** You still have yet not fully explain why a tiericide would nerf vehicles if vehicles were also to get a tiericide pass?
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 617	Posted - 2013.08.21 13:48:00 - [29] - Quote the reason tiericide might be needed is that right now a proto suit gets 2 to 3 times the HP of a standard one. It should be closer to 50% more, with the protosuits getting other miscellaneous advantages as well, such as in speed, hp recovery, detection, and other support abilities.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 962	Posted - 2013.08.21 15:19:00 - [30] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We dont have adv/proto mods or hulls yet If tiercide happened now or even before we ever get our stuff we would end up with the tanks we have now, useless and severly UP against all types of AV as it is now Its why adv/proto is needed so it can be tested against adv/proto AV Everything infantry is basically done but because infantry dont give a ** about vehicles which is apperent throughout the game/forums and CPM we would defo get ** You still have yet not fully explain why a tiericide would nerf vehicles if vehicles were also to get a tiericide pass? You cant ***** read can you? You cannot do tiercide when everything is still not out or even balanced against each other, vehicles are missing all adv/proto mods and hulls not too mention the other races vehicles, MAVs.speeders/jets/lazer and projectile turrets etc Ask again in 2yrs time when we should have everything and the games are linked to each other



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