DUST Search - What is the CPM's views on Tiercide?

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance.

Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads.

Bollocks

I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST?

Because Eve doesn't operate on the Basic, Advanced, Prototype marinda. Nor does eve operate on Breach, Flux, Gauged, Assault, Hacked, Tactical, Specialist variants either (though that would be cool for eve to pick up)

Also I take you just battleclinic most of your fits instead of going out and dying in something you slapped together on your own. You would have realized Eve online has an epic crap ton of fitting nuances even at max fitting skills.

Wrong again

When you you assume you make an ass out of you but not me

Tiercide in EVE is different to DUST

Best thing with EVE is basically everything out out now

Also meta levels are the tiers tbh, look at cloaking in EVE, the mods we have are 3 basic/advanaced/proto would you look at that

In DUST we dont have everything

In DUST vehicles dont even have adv/proto hulls and mods yet infantry which is all the CPM and 99% of the playerbase have basically the majority of ther stuff upto proto level

If tiercide comes in vehicles will get shafted and why because we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls so we would end up with prob gunlogi and madrugars as our proto hulls but get 1 shotted by proto AV lol

Not too mention we lose basic/adv things which would either never be used or just scrapped


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gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 3074	Posted - 2013.08.11 18:14:00 - [1] - Quote I would like to ask where the various CPM members stand on the tiercide idea. It's been buzzing around lately and we've seen some posts from IWS on the subject, I was just curios as to what the other CPM members thought of the issue. For those who have no clue as to what I'm talking about here's a list of every tiercide thread I know of The removal of tiers (GD version) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098356#post1098356 The removal of tiers (F&S version) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098674#post1098674 Cat Merc's invasion pla- I mean guide to save dust https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97244 Introduce a tech system instead of a tier system https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1164173#post1164173 Tiercide https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=100779
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 3091	Posted - 2013.08.12 14:48:00 - [2] - Quote It's not dumbing down, it's making the game more complicated. right now the game follows the basic rule that "proto is better", implementing a system like this would mean that a specific suit does a better job at a specific job, while another suit does another job better. Hence we go from the one key fits all locks that is the current system to using a certain key for a certain lock. This system promts experimenting with fits and suits rather than just maxing EHP and damage mods on every suit.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3102	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:20:00 - [3] - Quote OP updated with 2 new threads on the subject.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3177	Posted - 2013.08.18 14:59:00 - [4] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads. Bollocks I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST? Because Eve doesn't operate on the Basic, Advanced, Prototype marinda. Nor does eve operate on Breach, Flux, Gauged, Assault, Hacked, Tactical, Specialist variants either (though that would be cool for eve to pick up) Also I take you just battleclinic most of your fits instead of going out and dying in something you slapped together on your own. You would have realized Eve online has an epic crap ton of fitting nuances even at max fitting skills. Wrong again When you you assume you make an ass out of you but not me Tiercide in EVE is different to DUST Best thing with EVE is basically everything out out now Also meta levels are the tiers tbh, look at cloaking in EVE, the mods we have are 3 basic/advanaced/proto would you look at that In DUST we dont have everything In DUST vehicles dont even have adv/proto hulls and mods yet infantry which is all the CPM and 99% of the playerbase have basically the majority of ther stuff upto proto level If tiercide comes in vehicles will get shafted and why because we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls so we would end up with prob gunlogi and madrugars as our proto hulls but get 1 shotted by proto AV lol Not too mention we lose basic/adv things which would either never be used or just scrapped From the sheer ignorance in this post I'm just going to assume that you haven't read any of the linked threads at all. The main point of this tiercide idea is to remove proto, and advanced gears AKA tiered gear in its current form, FROM THE GAME. I bolded, italic'd, underlined, and even capitaled part of that to make sure you got the picture. Proto gear would be gone, no traces left whatsoever, current gear would the basic gear, the baseline, the exceptions being the specialised variants such as logi's, sentinel, assaults, which would acquire whatever stat, bonus changes required to make them the best at their role. Basic suits would become the most flexible in fittings, with certain variants offering a small bonus to a particular line of work. I would advocate modules remaining the same but with either increased CPU/PG costs at higher levels or less PG/CPU to use in the first place, this is to force players to compromise, to stop them putting the best modules in every slot, choose whether you tank or whether you gank, otherwise what it's like to fit a tank fit now. Vehicles would actually benefit the most from this change, we already don't have tiered hulls, so no work needs to be done there, we might actually benefit from increased bonus's depending on how the devs switch things up. The most direct benefit we would see however, is the direct removal of proto AV from the field, personally in this system I would set us up with the ADV AV as the new basic AV, since from my own experience and from what I hear of other vehicles users experience ADV seems to offer the best balance between the infantry's DPS and vehicles survivability, ideally we would see specialised variants that do increased damage to a certain tank but less to the other or some other drawback, we need to keep these things balanced. From what you've written in this post and others I have to assume one of three things 1) you haven't read any of those threads 2) you're trolling for some reason 3) you're an idiot
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3236	Posted - 2013.08.20 17:35:00 - [5] - Quote You seem to forget the fact that balance is an ongoing thing, tiercide would recover a game wide balance pass, in other words. Tanks would likely end up being buffed or changed as balancing requires. Assuming that ADV or proto hulls would magically solve things is ********, the fact that you haven't realised this yet makes 3) seem the most likely reason you're still posting badly about this.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3241	Posted - 2013.08.21 16:06:00 - [6] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We dont have adv/proto mods or hulls yet If tiercide happened now or even before we ever get our stuff we would end up with the tanks we have now, useless and severly UP against all types of AV as it is now Its why adv/proto is needed so it can be tested against adv/proto AV Everything infantry is basically done but because infantry dont give a ** about vehicles which is apperent throughout the game/forums and CPM we would defo get ** You still have yet not fully explain why a tiericide would nerf vehicles if vehicles were also to get a tiericide pass? You cant ***** read can you? You cannot do tiercide when everything is still not out or even balanced against each other, vehicles are missing all adv/proto mods and hulls not too mention the other races vehicles, MAVs.speeders/jets/lazer and projectile turrets etc Ask again in 2yrs time when we should have everything and the games are linked to each other And you seem to be unable to understand that tiercide would be using the current vehicle setup as a basis, there would be no need to implement any proto or adv hulls for vehicles, because they would just be removed instantly it would make no sense, and go counter to the entire idea. Lets put this in simple terms shall we Proto/adv hulls =bad, not needed for tiercide to go ahead Proto/adv hulls not needed because tiercide aims to remove proto/adv distinctions from the game Therefore putting proto/adv hulls in game just to remove them again = a waste of time and resources AKA it makes no sense to implement them Now that's out of the way and you have hopefully finally understood that very simple point, lets move on. Would tiercide work best with the rest of the racial variants? undoubtably, in fact it would probably be best, we're not saying that tiercide needs to happen now, but the sooner it happens the better IMO, but it's just that, my opinion. Do we need the other vehicle types to implement tiercide? No actually, we can implement tiercide on current vehicles and introduce the new types already tiercided, in other words we save the devs some times. Does everything need to balanced against each other for tiercide to be implemented? No, you know why? Because tiercide itself is a game wide balance pass, every single thing in the game would receive balancing, from vehicles and AV, to scouts and heavies, to damage mods and extenders.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3264	Posted - 2013.08.22 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: gbghg wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We dont have adv/proto mods or hulls yet If tiercide happened now or even before we ever get our stuff we would end up with the tanks we have now, useless and severly UP against all types of AV as it is now Its why adv/proto is needed so it can be tested against adv/proto AV Everything infantry is basically done but because infantry dont give a ** about vehicles which is apperent throughout the game/forums and CPM we would defo get ** You still have yet not fully explain why a tiericide would nerf vehicles if vehicles were also to get a tiericide pass? You cant *** read can you? You cannot do tiercide when everything is still not out or even balanced against each other, vehicles are missing all adv/proto mods and hulls not too mention the other races vehicles, MAVs.speeders/jets/lazer and projectile turrets etc Ask again in 2yrs time when we should have everything and the games are linked to each other More gibberish . More ****** posting that shows thT you have manger to muss the very simple point i've spent 2 pages trying to tell you. Okay I'm definitely going with (3 here, you're an idiot, what I want you to realise is that in a post tiercide there will be no proto vehicles, nor any proto AV. things will all be balanced at the same grade, and while we're on the subject I severly doubt and hope that we will never see proto vehicles, they will turn balancing AV and vehicles into an utter mess, an there's really no need for them. Not to mention that the sp sink they'll be will be ridiculous. I am going state this quite simply, In my honest opinion, born of vehicle combat across 2 builds, over 9 million sp invested into the tree, hundreds of millions of isk spent, and 8 months of expeience, proto and ADV hulls for vehicles is one of the worst things that could ever happen to dust.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3283	Posted - 2013.08.23 18:43:00 - [8] - Quote /facepalm, I give up, I actually give up, you are either literally too stupid to understand what me and several others have tried to tell you, or you are doing a very poor troll. And for the record I am one of the most outspoken dropship pilots on the forums, my post history will confirm that. You also seem unable to comprehend the words "game wide balance pass" and the fact that said pass would balance AV and vehicles against each other, but then as has been clearly proven, you're too stupid to understand that.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3315	Posted - 2013.08.28 00:37:00 - [9] - Quote OP updated with some new threads.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3359	Posted - 2013.09.03 16:34:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Funny thing is the sole reason why I brought the industrial up. Upcoming patch is adding new combat ships. Guess what class they are? Industrial. The Badger, Nereus, Tayra, & Hoarder. The magic of Teircide. More interesting choices within the already existing options. Battle Badger, still the most amusing fit I've ever heard of.