DUST Search - What is the CPM's views on Tiercide?

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

gbghg wrote:

Okay I'm definitely going with (3 here, you're an idiot, what I want you to realise is that in a post tiercide there will be no proto vehicles, nor any proto AV. things will all be balanced at the same grade, and while we're on the subject I severly doubt and hope that we will never see proto vehicles, they will turn balancing AV and vehicles into an utter mess, an there's really no need for them. Not to mention that the sp sink they'll be will be ridiculous.

I am going state this quite simply, In my honest opinion, born of vehicle combat across 2 builds, over 9 million sp invested into the tree, hundreds of millions of isk spent, and 8 months of expeience, proto and ADV hulls for vehicles is one of the worst things that could ever happen to dust.

I agree your an idiot

I had tanked more than you, prob been in DUST longer than you and done everything it has to offer

On one hand you say that dropsuits would all be the proto varients but then it isnt because proto doesnt exists but it wouldnt say proto

So proto vehicles dont exist so tiercide works how but fudging the numbers aand guessing at the tank which could be UP which ends up with basic gunlogi and maddy as our top tanks against proto AV great but its not proto AV because proto doesnt exist to is normal 3k damage per volley swarms

You say adv/proto vehicles worst thing to come to dust but adv/proto AV is fine because you are infantry and dont care because basic vehicle loleasy to kill

You want vehicles gone i get it


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7146	Posted - 2013.08.12 01:42:00 - [1] - Quote I currently do not know the current fate of that plan though but there was talks about some 'trimming' and the sorts but these are secondary to other factors such as racial completion and the poorly thought out bonusing system. Last time I checked most of the CPM had mixed views for various reasons for against and in the middle.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7173	Posted - 2013.08.13 00:17:00 - [2] - Quote This is not dumbing down the the game. It is eliminating stupid choices and replacing it with 'interesting' choices.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7217	Posted - 2013.08.13 18:38:00 - [3] - Quote Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7354	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:09:00 - [4] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its dumbing the game down Less choice, less options so its dumbing it down You can say all the EVE things you like but for the main fighting stuff in EVE they still use the same fleets unless a FOTM ship setup comes into it All what will happen is FOTM fits Also vehicle users will get the short end of the straw aswell, we dont even have advanced let alone proto mods/hulls so chances are we get stuck with the same old gunlogi/maddy up against proto AV but because its tiercide then infantry will just 3dmg mod it out the ass with lolOPswarms every ******* game Its dumbing down simple as Back in the days when i used basic it was to find a fit i liked then tweek it as i worked for adv/proto If everyone is already at proto then why are we playing? If its even out the playing field then whatever happened to new eden and HTFU? Its dumbing the game down and making it easier, less choice less fits Let me fully explain this. Currently there Four Races Each race is planned to have Three Weights of Suits, Light Medium and Heavy, Each Weight is expected to have 3 specializations including basic, each specialization has 3 options basic advanced prototype. 4x3x3x3 108 Suits Dust 514 is limited to the following restraints in varying degrees. 1-2 weapons 0-1 Grenades 0-5 High slots 0-5 Low slots 0-4 Equipment Every new useless suit we add steals away a slot configuration. Slots are pretty important weighted stat in Dust 514. Both eve and dust 514 try to avoid using the same slot layout because CPU and Grid and even bonuses cannot prevent easily discourage of fitting one suit to fit exactly the same as the other thus negating the most interesting portions of that suit the Role and bonuses how awkward would be it a gallente and caldari suit have the slot layout... no boring! Now you may be a bigger math wizard than me and say wait IWS those slot numbers you put out allow for a large number of combinations. That would be true if you didn't have the next restriction. Basic, Advanced, and Prototype are locked into their slot allocations as well. While there is one suit exception right now the commando. The scouts, lights, heavies, and pilots which have their own restrictions. Now lets fast forward, CCP introduces Type 2 Suits with new models and new roles within each specialization. 216+ suits (because chances are we're going to be at multiple new specializations lets say 4, Crusader and Command Suits are probably both heavy suits) so 500+ suits total. Congratulations we just exhausted all the possible basic suit slot layouts. 40%-66% of those suits NOBODY will want to wear but only be forced when first training the up. Tell me are you in a protosuit now? when was the last time you went back to basic suit of the same class and stuck with it? So this makes about nearly 1000 suits nearly useless as well because we have to include militia grade, and neo grade and whatever new microtransaction types they add in. 1000s of boring choices is a real serious problem for both veterans and rookies alike as suits become trivial and are simply reduced to simple awful existence best stated as "why do I exist?" Now do a balance pass on all that. An analogy best suited for this case is Prius vs Prius which choice is more interesting? The C the LE the P the E the S the v models? Wouldn't you rather have FR-S, Corolla, Tundra VS Mustang, Taurus, and F-150 instead? Under Tericide 4 Races 3 weight classes even with 5 Specializations each hell lets go 8 for neos and militia variants 96 Interesting Choices each unique and suited best for what its supposed to, easier to balance, no need to curve far easier to balance because at most you have to balance is 4 suits(the role) and at least 1 (specific problem) in the whole puzzle. Type II? No problem 180 Suits Teiricide will allow for best growth of players, choices, and design of future suits. Also you're an idiot to bring vehicles into this they're already pre-teiricide. There is no need to prototype or advance them at all if we get rid of suits having prototype and advanced variants and stick with Technology 1 and Technology 2 progressions. HTFU still heavily applies as you are now given that one suit and expected to make the most of it with that suit, you can still utterly fail at fitting skill planning and just lack of any sensibilities can and will still get anyone killed in this game. Under the purposed model I have a veteran can and will still gear gap a new player, as newer players into that role cannot instantly fit prototype/advanced mix fits and will have to resort to using basic gear to make viable fits when training up a new suit for the first time. Finally this is the councillor's chambers come in here with a far stronger argument next time as around here its far less shooting the wind and much more serious business here. I welcome debates but one liners won't cut it here as easily.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7354	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:24:00 - [5] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ideally if tericide were to happen it would still be impossible to fit a full proto module layout into a suit. The player will have to make choices on mixing and matching between the best mix of advanced and prototype modules and weapons. This makes the skill of fitting knowledge most important. A skill once acquired can be used in any other suit as the player become more and more conscious and smarter over their suit's performance. Also this will free up some paint schemes for the paint bucket store later on and severely reduce the art team's work loads. Bollocks I know in EVE i can generally fit all T2 mods on it aka the best without having to use expenisve officer/deadspace fittings so why the same in DUST? Because Eve doesn't operate on the Basic, Advanced, Prototype marinda. Nor does eve operate on Breach, Flux, Gauged, Assault, Hacked, Tactical, Specialist variants either (though that would be cool for eve to pick up) Also I take you just battleclinic most of your fits instead of going out and dying in something you slapped together on your own. You would have realized Eve online has an epic crap ton of fitting nuances even at max fitting skills.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7493	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:32:00 - [6] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Removal of gear so less choice simple as ive said this before you denied it even tho im right Vehicles get shafted simple as, we dont have adv/proto mods/hulls and until they are introduced get **** infantryman, i want to see adv/proto mods/hulls and test them out against proto AV 1st because if this tiercide goes through when all the pieces of the puzzle aint in place then vehicles will get **** over Instead we get shafted with a maddy and gunlogi type b with some buffed stats but prob isnt anywhere near what a proto should be Yeah right removal of proto AV good luck with that, how many proto lolswarms crutch users are they who love them in this broken state and can take out all vehicles without trying or aiming or risking anything, even you defend the crutch users when they are clearly broken Shafted? You do know that any form of Teiricide will require rebalancing.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7549	Posted - 2013.08.20 18:37:00 - [7] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We dont have adv/proto mods or hulls yet If tiercide happened now or even before we ever get our stuff we would end up with the tanks we have now, useless and severly UP against all types of AV as it is now Its why adv/proto is needed so it can be tested against adv/proto AV Everything infantry is basically done but because infantry dont give a ** about vehicles which is apperent throughout the game/forums and CPM we would defo get **** You still have yet not fully explain why a tiericide would nerf vehicles if vehicles were also to get a tiericide pass?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7667	Posted - 2013.08.23 02:40:00 - [8] - Quote I know.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7711	Posted - 2013.08.24 01:04:00 - [9] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: gbghg wrote: Okay I'm definitely going with (3 here, you're an idiot, what I want you to realise is that in a post tiercide there will be no proto vehicles, nor any proto AV. things will all be balanced at the same grade, and while we're on the subject I severly doubt and hope that we will never see proto vehicles, they will turn balancing AV and vehicles into an utter mess, an there's really no need for them. Not to mention that the sp sink they'll be will be ridiculous. I am going state this quite simply, In my honest opinion, born of vehicle combat across 2 builds, over 9 million sp invested into the tree, hundreds of millions of isk spent, and 8 months of expeience, proto and ADV hulls for vehicles is one of the worst things that could ever happen to dust. I agree your an idiot I had tanked more than you, prob been in DUST longer than you and done everything it has to offer On one hand you say that dropsuits would all be the proto varients but then it isnt because proto doesnt exists but it wouldnt say proto So proto vehicles dont exist so tiercide works how but fudging the numbers aand guessing at the tank which could be UP which ends up with basic gunlogi and maddy as our top tanks against proto AV great but its not proto AV because proto doesnt exist to is normal 3k damage per volley swarms You say adv/proto vehicles worst thing to come to dust but adv/proto AV is fine because you are infantry and dont care because basic vehicle loleasy to kill You want vehicles gone i get it We should just tericide vehicles first. They don't have any roles in the first place.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7825	Posted - 2013.08.28 00:36:00 - [10] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I need more slots pg cpu and tank then if im the battleship because right now infantry with proto AV is like a frigate taking out a battleship Which happens plenty often. Unsupported battleships can get wrecked by frigates. Happens quite often in eve. Hell we had a '18 wheeler' take out a battleship http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6so9AT4UydQ

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7861	Posted - 2013.08.28 23:39:00 - [11] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I need more slots pg cpu and tank then if im the battleship because right now infantry with proto AV is like a frigate taking out a battleship Which happens plenty often. Unsupported battleships can get wrecked by frigates. Happens quite often in eve. Hell we had a '18 wheeler' take out a battleship http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6so9AT4UydQ By frigates The 'S' means more than one Current proto AV is solo = 1 person acting alone Also a industrial can fit a really good tank and with its hold lots and lots of cap boosters and that BS was a PVE mission runner, you think it would generally survive against a PVP BS? The battleship and pilot was a **** fit and under normal circumstances a competent PVE player in that class of battleship would have massacred that iteron. Also using Eve to balance warfare tactics analogies in Dust is a bit silly considering how fast a large turret can track in Dust. There are things that translate well from eve into Dust. Fighting isn't one of them. I am however glad as confirmed by CCP Wolfman that Tanks and all other vehicles are finally getting basic, advanced, and prototype equipment/modules. something they needed rather direly and would be far more useful to the vehicles than new hulls.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7955	Posted - 2013.09.03 09:34:00 - [12] - Quote Funny thing is the sole reason why I brought the industrial up. Upcoming patch is adding four new combat ships. Guess what class they are? Industrial. The magic of Teircide. More interesting choices within the already existing options.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7971	Posted - 2013.09.03 17:27:00 - [13] - Quote gbghg wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Funny thing is the sole reason why I brought the industrial up. Upcoming patch is adding new combat ships. Guess what class they are? Industrial. The Badger, Nereus, Tayra, & Hoarder. The magic of Teircide. More interesting choices within the already existing options. Battle Badger, still the most amusing fit I've ever heard of. Now its a serious possible fit.