I exslusively use AR.

To your knowledge.

Few builds ago numbers with AR are like 48-2.
Now I got about 13-4 per match. And this is after sewerals AR nerfs and I dont chage my tactits (maybe I play bad now :D)
Match that I go with 20+ are almost none now. (very rare occasions)

From your number 4 ppl with kamikaze suit (stacked dmg mods) on assault/logi suits working together in front line dont deserve this +/- 30 kils are wrong? (any of them was killed +/- 10 times so if they dont use injectors.. they pay a lot for this tactics)

I dont think so.

This is not enough for blame and nerf again weapon.

.... Seriously, I can go through an entire clip of an exile and the damn thing won't even consider jumping until I'm down to 1/10th of a clip- and this is with 0 SP into ARs whatsoever. See anything wrong with that?...

The reason I'm bringing this up for the millionth time on these forums (not like you see AR threads every day already) is because my team was almost cloned because the top 4 players on the other team were all using Duvolles

Here were the estimated kdr's:

30-8
33-11
28-9
29-12

This is REDICULOUS. No other weapon in this game (besides snipers) allow you to SOLO these kinds of numbers. I mean, they weren't even working together! They were sniping across the map, chewing our health down bit by bit every time our team moved around the corner. Once we did get a good group of 5 players heading in one direction, a SINGLE player would wipe out the whole squad with his AR like we were all using militia fits.

The worst part is how these guys were able to hit me directly for long enough to take out 1000 hp in 3 seconds while they were strafing back and forth at a long distance away.
______________________

The problems:

The AR is too accurate at range.
-The major downside to this all around weapon in ANY FPS is that it cannot be used as a long range weapon. As you get farther from your opponent, the spread on an AR is just too great for it to be accurate unless you are CROUCHING or STANDING STILL. This does not apply to dust for some reason.

Movement does not affect accuracy enough.
-As this is one of the few automatic weapons in the game, it does not have to be aimed skillfully like the other weapons do. Because of this, it benefits from the nonexistence of an aim penalty during ADS while moving. In dust, you can be running around like a madman and still shoot where you aim. HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

There's also not enough spread while ADS.
-A gun does not immediately become a sniper when you aim down the sights. If you jump around and run in circles while looking down the sights on a weapon, you would be as accurate as hip firing the thing. Besides, with the extra movement of your arms and body, the bullets should be flying all over the place, not in a straight line to your target.

DPS is also balanced by increasing spread the longer you fire.
-Most Assault Rifles lose accuracy the longer you fire them as the gun heats up. Right now, the maximum spread for the hip fire is still super accurate, but the ADS spread should also be increased the longer you fire.
____________________

The solutions:

Simple
-Increase spread while ADS

Not as simple
-Increase spread of ADS to the hip fire accuracy, only when jumping or strafing at max speed while ADS.

Complex
-What's mentioned above, and increase spread the longer you fire the weapon.
____________________

TLDR:
The AR doesn't need it's damage reduced, it needs to not be as accurate as a sniper while ADS. The best way to fix this is to increase the spread of the weapon while ADS if you are moving, or increase spread the longer you fire.

STLDR:
Remember the AR's from every other game ever? That's how spread should work. That's how this weapon should be balanced.

Nerfing the accuracy would make these stupid strafe fights even longer, why not nerf the movement speed when in ADS to 70%, and have a bigger hip fire accuracy reduction with sustained fire when hip-firing.

Because then they'd still be too accurate at stupid distances.

This is REDICULOUS.

Some sort of dispersion effect on all weapons while moving would work wonders in this game as far as infantry weapons are concerned. Best personal accuracy would be from the stationary crouched position, with slightly less dependable accuarcy while standing and or moving, the reticule bloom while hip firing seems fairly spot on, and reduced accuracy while ADS and moving.

Basically a more dynamic ballistics accuracy effect when movement and character position are combined that will work with this game's construction. Strafing around on uneven sufaces while ADS at a target 80m aways should prove to be an act of futility in the marksmanship ranking.

When I used to play America's Army I recall that game was built on the Unreal Engine, and it had some of the best shooting mechanics aside from Crysis 1 in my opinion.

In that game your sights and general barrel direction and accuracy were influenced by your simulated breathing, which direction you were moving in, how injured you were, how much sprinting you had recently done. It was pretty darn intricate, I'm sure we could have something done to make this crab walking strafe game made into a believable shooter.

As cool as it sounds, CoDders would complain. They' already complained in beta because strafing and TTK exposed their weak sustained aim. This is one of the reasons why I like Dust because there's a somewhat decent balance between twitch and old school track shooters.

I just like it when a game is realistic enough to show that standing upright while rapidly moving back and forth while firing full auto at a target 80+meters away is pretty useless. It actually promoted people to fire from a stable accurate position instead of running everywhere and strafing non stop.

Oh well, good thread none the less.

That's where customization comes in with Dust. You can fit your suit to your specific playstyle. For example, a friend of mine was having some issues and he's primarily a CoD player. Thankfully, he was already a Gallente assault so adjusting his fitting was an easy fix. I got him to triple stack damage mods and stack reppers in his low slots with a shield regulator. Now he's right at home using a twitch playstyle with the ability to duck behind cover real quick to get back to full HP. I'm more of a strafe and track player so I hybrid tank with 0 speed penalty to throw off people's aim. Not many games on the market can appeal to so many different playstyles and none of them are F2P.

Biggest problem I have with the gun game is mid range shooting (30-80) against a "good" player at this game. It turns into a strafe lateral spray and pray contest and who has the best equipment really helps as well. I'm not just picking on the AR here by the way.

I know it is my opinion but I do not like the way those fights play out. Whether I or the other guy gets the kill it feels really frustrating and just kinda dumb. It's engrained in my reflexes to have the quickest reaction to get a steady accurate set of shots down range when your target is that far away, not start moving all over the damn place. So it just seems very silly that the best way to survive is to dance around, because whether your moving or stationary both of your shots go where your dot is.

I'm just talking for discussion's sake here, I just find it hard to enjoy some of the questionable mechanics in the game at times.

hated Replicaton. Everyone had even more HP and SG scouts were something you had to call out to your squad back then because of their blinding speed. But at the same time, combat was fast paced and more strategic. Heavies (though a bit OP) were something to be feared as you needed to either chip his HP away from a distance or rush em' with 2-3 guys. (God I miss those days)

Back to the point, that's where gear comes in. If you're that twitch guy, bust out some damage mods and a duvolle. Even when strafing, that damn gun will chop me up in the blink of an eye. Gank vs tank is a huge thing in EVE and it's no different in Dust, you just have to fit accordingly. But hit detection/aiming is still a big issue too. You probably lost a lot of fights you should have won. Keep that in mind.

My god just leave everything a lone. I'm tired of the nerf this nerf that. It's getting annoying. Quit acting like bytches and get good. And no I'm not just a ar user. I use mass driver forge gun hmg Sr flaylock nova knife sg sniper shall I keep going? Seriously leave all weapons alone and stop crying.

Yeah, plus I insist on using the scrambler rifles because I want to use something hi tech in a scifi game
Which I am overall very satisfied with. It's just sometimes....sometimes you have those total wtf, near rage moments when trying to shoot dancing queen wannabe's.

The AR's get even more ridiculously good when you compare them to the assault scrambler rifles, good luck using that to hit long range when the kick from fireing pushes you off your target. Yet the duvolle manages to stay right on track.

Someone tell me why the **** a laser gun has a kick? IT IS A LASER, LIGHT, THERE IS NO PROJECTILE TO FIRE, THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT TO KICK/JUMP/WHATEVER when fireing.

Except for of course, to make it worse than the AR.

The reason I'm bringing this up for the millionth time on these forums (not like you see AR threads every day already) is because my team was almost cloned because the top 4 players on the other team were all using Duvolles

Here were the estimated kdr's:

30-8
33-11
28-9
29-12

I don't know, the assault scr is much easier to use in my experience. The semi auto one is very difficult to hit small dance strafers with. Sometimes you can drop heavies and proto suits so fast with either of them. They seem to be weapons of opportunity. IF you can land a short series of shots your target will probably die, but tracking with them is more tedious.

I like hip firing with my ASCR no complaints there.

The reason I'm bringing this up for the millionth time on these forums (not like you see AR threads every day already) is because my team was almost cloned because the top 4 players on the other team were all using Duvolles

Here were the estimated kdr's:

30-8
33-11
28-9
29-12

This is REDICULOUS. No other weapon in this game (besides snipers) allow you to SOLO these kinds of numbers. I mean, they weren't even working together! They were sniping across the map, chewing our health down bit by bit every time our team moved around the corner. Once we did get a good group of 5 players heading in one direction, a SINGLE player would wipe out the whole squad with his AR like we were all using militia fits.

The worst part is how these guys were able to hit me directly for long enough to take out 1000 hp in 3 seconds while they were strafing back and forth at a long distance away.
______________________

The problems:

The AR is too accurate at range.
-The major downside to this all around weapon in ANY FPS is that it cannot be used as a long range weapon. As you get farther from your opponent, the spread on an AR is just too great for it to be accurate unless you are CROUCHING or STANDING STILL. This does not apply to dust for some reason.

Movement does not affect accuracy enough.
-As this is one of the few automatic weapons in the game, it does not have to be aimed skillfully like the other weapons do. Because of this, it benefits from the nonexistence of an aim penalty during ADS while moving. In dust, you can be running around like a madman and still shoot where you aim. HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

There's also not enough spread while ADS.
-A gun does not immediately become a sniper when you aim down the sights. If you jump around and run in circles while looking down the sights on a weapon, you would be as accurate as hip firing the thing. Besides, with the extra movement of your arms and body, the bullets should be flying all over the place, not in a straight line to your target.

DPS is also balanced by increasing spread the longer you fire.
-Most Assault Rifles lose accuracy the longer you fire them as the gun heats up. Right now, the maximum spread for the hip fire is still super accurate, but the ADS spread should also be increased the longer you fire.
____________________

The solutions:

Simple
-Increase spread while ADS

Not as simple
-Increase spread of ADS to the hip fire accuracy, only when jumping or strafing at max speed while ADS.

Complex
-What's mentioned above, and increase spread the longer you fire the weapon.
____________________

TLDR:
The AR doesn't need it's damage reduced, it needs to not be as accurate as a sniper while ADS. The best way to fix this is to increase the spread of the weapon while ADS if you are moving, or increase spread the longer you fire.

STLDR:
Remember the AR's from every other game ever? That's how spread should work. That's how this weapon should be balanced.

I like how half of these posts are about the kdr's I posted at the top.

WELL THEN, DELETE

Cause apparently 4 players with over 2500 wp each going SOLO (i.e. not working as a team) isn't a way to show how crazy the AR is.

I like how half of these posts are about the kdr's I posted at the top.

WELL THEN, DELETE

Cause apparently 4 players with over 2500 wp each going SOLO (i.e. not working as a team) isn't a way to show how crazy the AR is.

I can go solo with the ASCR. Actually my militia Minmatar suit with a basic SCR and a ADV flaylock can go toe to toe with proto suits. KDR has nothing to do with it.

I can two shot a Caldari Logi with my Scrambler no problem.

It's the fact that they can hit me from across the map with such accuracy for a MEDIUM range weapon, and still chew through 1000 hp in 3 seconds. That's not how AR's should work. If they didn't have so much accuracy at range, I wouldn't die out of nowhere from an AR acting like a sniper.

dont blame the gun blame all the damage mods that were added to them...

I like how half of these posts are about the kdr's I posted at the top.

WELL THEN, DELETE

Cause apparently 4 players with over 2500 wp each going SOLO (i.e. not working as a team) isn't a way to show how crazy the AR is.

Complaining about the AR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED on the forums, they are not yet working as intended to one shot proto heavies.

Go find some other weapon to complain about before you get ban from the forums, AR problems are a no go zone.

Like I said in other threads and my own thread on the subject, the current Gallente AR just needs a faster dispersion increase rate in order to require it to be fired in long bursts to stay accurate.

As well - and I'm not surprised at this, since this is CCP's first shooter - there is another issue.

The dispersion rate resets the moment your release the trigger. With the way the DS3 triggers work, this means that you can quickly release just enough pressure and then depress the trigger again to allow you to burn through an entire magazine while remaining completely accurate.

This is similar to how pulsing your trigger rapidly in Halo 3 would result in winning any AR v AR battle against someone who just held the trigger down.

The dispersion rate needs to have some kind of time-based falloff such that you can't feather the trigger to stay accurate without slowing your rate of fire.

This.

Nothing that is done to change the Assault Rifle will have any effect unless the ability to feather the trigger to maintain your firing rate with zero dispersion is addressed.

Let's be honest. The AR is only the first in their lineup of eventual automatic weapons. Pretty much every other weapon suffers from this problem - from the mighty HMG to the lowly(but powerful) SMG - even if it is to a lesser degree due to their actual dispersion rates.

This is a system that needs a very hard look - and a very solid implementation - sooner rather than later. I can only imagine what the other weapon systems will be like if this is not put in.

You know what? IDGAF anymore, keep your full auto sniper rifles. But I better damn sight not see any of you complaining about a niche weapon performing in its own respective niche. 1.4 can't come soon enough...

When I used to play America's Army

Bumping again cause 1.4 seems to have made this issue more apparent.

ARs are dominating

well its not the accuracy of the gun its the precision of the gun...


precision is the grouping of the shots..

accuracy is just how close those shots r to your target..

so accuracy is really just the player thats using the gun involves how well he can aim

ok look it up then...

i just got out of a physics class that just covered this topic today....

lasers are 100% precise...not 100%accurate..

Yeah, I feel your pain. It's Chromosome all over again but they don't have to rely on damage mods since the AR is so accurate now. If you think it's bad now, wait until hit detection and aiming gets fixed.