DUST Search - Cat Marc's invasion pla- I mean a guide to save Dust

Cat Merc wrote:

Stands Alone wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Stands Alone wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Where do you think the stats are bad?

trying to keep it short, i dont want to get into a rant

I dont think there should be any drawbacks to using a specific suit. such as the -damage or -absolute range. the drawbacks will not necessarily drawbacks, but will be differences. just like in EVE, no ship really has a drawback... just a weakness to its counter or when being used outside its intended role, however since there are no actual drawbacks, one can still make a very outside the box fitting and surprise everyone by using it very effectively outside its intended roles.... in my opinion, a "direct drawback" will only hinder creativity

There is only one suit that with a minus and that's the range one.
I put -absolute because range is OP.

understandable. but i think that there could be other things that could be affected, less hp, slower, something... what if someone wanted to use that suit for something other than hybrid?

i could come up with many reasons why i am just highly opposed to a "debuff/direct drawback" other than that... i think some numbers could use tweaking...

but that isnt the point. im super tired. the point of this post is the general idea and i completely agree with like 90% of it. just a few number tweaks. no real point in discussing numbers too much not even knowing if CCP will even consider this

About the hybrid comment:
Gallente/Caldari use hybrid.
Minmatar use projectile.
Amarr use laser.

Each racial suit will get a bonus to the weapon type they use.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Defy Gravity Silver Talon Corporation 62	Posted - 2013.08.04 02:51:00 - [61] - Quote What they need to do is bring back the old system where it was Type I Type II A Series B Series vk.0 vk.1
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3823	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:12:00 - [62] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: What they need to do is bring back the old system where it was Type I Type II A Series B Series vk.0 vk.1 Everyone used vk.1 because it was better for a slightly higher cost lol Plus not everyone shield tanks.
Defy Gravity Silver Talon Corporation 64	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:19:00 - [63] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: What they need to do is bring back the old system where it was Type I Type II A Series B Series vk.0 vk.1 Everyone used vk.1 because it was better for a slightly higher cost lol Plus not everyone shield tanks. Thats why there was a vk.0 for armor tankers...
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3824	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:20:00 - [64] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: What they need to do is bring back the old system where it was Type I Type II A Series B Series vk.0 vk.1 Everyone used vk.1 because it was better for a slightly higher cost lol Plus not everyone shield tanks. Thats why there was a vk.0 for armor tankers... vk.1 was plain better.
Defy Gravity Silver Talon Corporation 64	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:30:00 - [65] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: What they need to do is bring back the old system where it was Type I Type II A Series B Series vk.0 vk.1 Everyone used vk.1 because it was better for a slightly higher cost lol Plus not everyone shield tanks. Thats why there was a vk.0 for armor tankers... vk.1 was plain better. Maybe for people that liked shields. But You can throw some armor plates & damage mods and go 20+/0 back then. Anyone could say that the vk.1 was better..... By there prefrence of shields. Some people like armor.
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3824	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:38:00 - [66] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Defy Gravity wrote: What they need to do is bring back the old system where it was Type I Type II A Series B Series vk.0 vk.1 Everyone used vk.1 because it was better for a slightly higher cost lol Plus not everyone shield tanks. Thats why there was a vk.0 for armor tankers... vk.1 was plain better. Maybe for people that liked shields. But You can throw some armor plates & damage mods and go 20+/0 back then. Anyone could say that the vk.1 was better..... By there prefrence of shields. Some people like armor. It had more eHP total.
Defy Gravity Silver Talon Corporation 64	Posted - 2013.08.04 03:58:00 - [67] - Quote It had more eHP total.[/quote] Not really 3 high 4 low. 3 complex shield 3 complex armor 1 repairer and a basic assault rifle did the trick. going close to over 800 total hp. the vk.1 was shield based and only went to around 500+ shield. And most ar slayers back then like myself would put 5 complex. I never saw a vk.1 above 400 armor like the vk0. The Vk.0 got close to 300+ shields and 500+ armor. The vk.1 was only dominant because of its strafe speed. That was all there was to it.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 1121	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:10:00 - [68] - Quote Lightning Bolt2 wrote: +...ummm I think 4? this will help alot, but it'll really need a full respec with all that added to be able to use the new system/skill tree. this will probably fix alot of the imbalances and reduce SP sinks, but unfortunately will help FOTM chasers, but at the same time CCP could track what all spikes to help learn whats the FOTM,while at the same time it'll be possible for, lets say a scout to see the game through a heavies point of view, or the "FOTM" to have their opinion whether its OP or not. "FotM" really only occurs with the current tiered system. Hence complaints about the Core Flaylock Pistol, and the ck.0 Logistics suit. Both prototype. For every basic/advanced flaylock pistol I saw, there were 30-40 Core Flaylocks. For every basic/advanced Caldari Logistics suit I saw in public matches, there were full teams of ck.0's in PC. These prototype tiers are incredily hard to 'balance' against lower tiers, which are weaker overall. By flattening the tiers, it becomes easier to balance because as we've seen with the recent nerfs, ALL Caldari Logistics suits were nerfed, and ALL Flaylocks were nerfed, because of their prototype tier item's power. Without tiers and diverse variants, it makes sense to balance one item at a time instead of all related items because each item is different from the other.
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3842	Posted - 2013.08.04 23:36:00 - [69] - Quote meow
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3842	Posted - 2013.08.04 23:37:00 - [70] - Quote Defy Gravity wrote: It had more eHP total. Not really 3 high 4 low. 3 complex shield 3 complex armor 1 repairer and a basic assault rifle did the trick. going close to over 800 total hp. the vk.1 was shield based and only went to around 500+ shield. And most ar slayers back then like myself would put 5 complex. I never saw a vk.1 above 400 armor like the vk0. The Vk.0 got close to 300+ shields and 500+ armor. The vk.1 was only dominant because of its strafe speed. That was all there was to it.[/quote] You're forgetting the speed penalty. Almost no one used plates because it was (and still is) bad penalty/gain wise.

Stands Alone Ultramarine Corp 48	Posted - 2013.08.05 02:38:00 - [71] - Quote i agree with this idea. not the purposed statistics however.
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3860	Posted - 2013.08.05 03:41:00 - [72] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: i agree with this idea. not the purposed statistics however. Where do you think the stats are bad?
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.08.05 04:05:00 - [73] - Quote I like this idea. I don't want to loose the financial aspect of suit choice that we have at the moment though (even if it is a bit off, it was better in chromosome). With tiericide the costs are also equalised. So there is no way to bring out your good stuff to crack a tough nut. Can you think of a way to retain the cost decisions without resorting to vehicles or random loot? Perhaps excessively expensive modules that provide an extra 5-10%? Or does this just defeat the purpose of tiericide....
Stands Alone Ultramarine Corp 48	Posted - 2013.08.05 04:14:00 - [74] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: i agree with this idea. not the purposed statistics however. Where do you think the stats are bad? trying to keep it short, i dont want to get into a rant I dont think there should be any drawbacks to using a specific suit. such as the -damage or -absolute range. the drawbacks will not necessarily drawbacks, but will be differences. just like in EVE, no ship really has a drawback... just a weakness to its counter or when being used outside its intended role, however since there are no actual drawbacks, one can still make a very outside the box fitting and surprise everyone by using it very effectively outside its intended roles.... in my opinion, a "direct drawback" will only hinder creativity
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3860	Posted - 2013.08.05 04:37:00 - [75] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: i agree with this idea. not the purposed statistics however. Where do you think the stats are bad? trying to keep it short, i dont want to get into a rant I dont think there should be any drawbacks to using a specific suit. such as the -damage or -absolute range. the drawbacks will not necessarily drawbacks, but will be differences. just like in EVE, no ship really has a drawback... just a weakness to its counter or when being used outside its intended role, however since there are no actual drawbacks, one can still make a very outside the box fitting and surprise everyone by using it very effectively outside its intended roles.... in my opinion, a "direct drawback" will only hinder creativity There is only one suit that with a minus and that's the range one. I put -absolute because range is OP.
Stands Alone Ultramarine Corp 50	Posted - 2013.08.05 05:06:00 - [76] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: i agree with this idea. not the purposed statistics however. Where do you think the stats are bad? trying to keep it short, i dont want to get into a rant I dont think there should be any drawbacks to using a specific suit. such as the -damage or -absolute range. the drawbacks will not necessarily drawbacks, but will be differences. just like in EVE, no ship really has a drawback... just a weakness to its counter or when being used outside its intended role, however since there are no actual drawbacks, one can still make a very outside the box fitting and surprise everyone by using it very effectively outside its intended roles.... in my opinion, a "direct drawback" will only hinder creativity There is only one suit that with a minus and that's the range one. I put -absolute because range is OP. understandable. but i think that there could be other things that could be affected, less hp, slower, something... what if someone wanted to use that suit for something other than hybrid? i could come up with many reasons why i am just highly opposed to a "debuff/direct drawback" other than that... i think some numbers could use tweaking... but that isnt the point. im super tired. the point of this post is the general idea and i completely agree with like 90% of it. just a few number tweaks. no real point in discussing numbers too much not even knowing if CCP will even consider this
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3860	Posted - 2013.08.05 05:38:00 - [77] - Quote Stands Alone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: i agree with this idea. not the purposed statistics however. Where do you think the stats are bad? trying to keep it short, i dont want to get into a rant I dont think there should be any drawbacks to using a specific suit. such as the -damage or -absolute range. the drawbacks will not necessarily drawbacks, but will be differences. just like in EVE, no ship really has a drawback... just a weakness to its counter or when being used outside its intended role, however since there are no actual drawbacks, one can still make a very outside the box fitting and surprise everyone by using it very effectively outside its intended roles.... in my opinion, a "direct drawback" will only hinder creativity There is only one suit that with a minus and that's the range one. I put -absolute because range is OP. understandable. but i think that there could be other things that could be affected, less hp, slower, something... what if someone wanted to use that suit for something other than hybrid? i could come up with many reasons why i am just highly opposed to a "debuff/direct drawback" other than that... i think some numbers could use tweaking... but that isnt the point. im super tired. the point of this post is the general idea and i completely agree with like 90% of it. just a few number tweaks. no real point in discussing numbers too much not even knowing if CCP will even consider this About the hybrid comment: Gallente/Caldari use hybrid. Minmatar use projectile. Amarr use laser. Each racial suit will get a bonus to the weapon type they use.
Stands Alone Ultramarine Corp 51	Posted - 2013.08.05 07:09:00 - [78] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Stands Alone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Where do you think the stats are bad? trying to keep it short, i dont want to get into a rant I dont think there should be any drawbacks to using a specific suit. such as the -damage or -absolute range. the drawbacks will not necessarily drawbacks, but will be differences. just like in EVE, no ship really has a drawback... just a weakness to its counter or when being used outside its intended role, however since there are no actual drawbacks, one can still make a very outside the box fitting and surprise everyone by using it very effectively outside its intended roles.... in my opinion, a "direct drawback" will only hinder creativity There is only one suit that with a minus and that's the range one. I put -absolute because range is OP. understandable. but i think that there could be other things that could be affected, less hp, slower, something... what if someone wanted to use that suit for something other than hybrid? i could come up with many reasons why i am just highly opposed to a "debuff/direct drawback" other than that... i think some numbers could use tweaking... but that isnt the point. im super tired. the point of this post is the general idea and i completely agree with like 90% of it. just a few number tweaks. no real point in discussing numbers too much not even knowing if CCP will even consider this About the hybrid comment: Gallente/Caldari use hybrid. Minmatar use projectile. Amarr use laser. Each racial suit will get a bonus to the weapon type they use. while that is understandable as well... there is not the weapon variation even close to EVE therefore forcing people who play EVE or in some cases play for lore and follow a certain faction, out of their class. minmatar ships also give bonuses to missiles. caldari is hybrid and missiles, amarr laser... my point is that, in EVE, there is a a variety of weapons for each ship and its very likely that you can stay aligned and loyal to one faction and not have to compromise.... minmatar specialize in projectile weapons but i dont have to give up anything to use missiles (caldari specialization) because there are ships that will let me do that I think that Dust needs to be more like EVE but until there is more weapons to choose from, we cannot get race specific bonuses. what would minnie suit bonuses be? SMG, Flaylock, Mass Driver? and completely leave out any long range weapon for an entire faction, amarr get the best of most worlds? long range laser, blaster rifles, scrambler pistols making them more the smartest sp investment for any play since out of those three weapons they can cover all ranges up until 95 meters ugh... see? told you i would rant lol in short i want this to resemble the nature and lore of EVE as much as any other EVE pilots or role players want. but there is not yet enough content and variety to do that, or to get race specific bonuses for weapons and modules. and to capture the essence of creativity and adaptation that come from EVE, this idea is very solid. but until new content is added, i stand my ground that the stats need to be modified to fit the current model/content
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.08.05 07:14:00 - [79] - Quote What if only some of the suit bonuses were geared specifically for racial weapons? You could have a bunch of generic bonuses like the current Minny and Caldari assault bonus and then racially focussed ones like the Amarr and Gallente ones. If you don't want to use the racial weapons you would still have options with the other dropsuits from that race and class.
Stands Alone Ultramarine Corp 51	Posted - 2013.08.05 07:21:00 - [80] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: What if only some of the suit bonuses were geared specifically for racial weapons? You could have a bunch of generic bonuses like the current Minny and Caldari assault bonus and then racially focussed ones like the Amarr and Gallente ones. If you don't want to use the racial weapons you would still have options with the other dropsuits from that race and class. it gets complicated lol... you cant give too much freedom or it could go outside of lore or new eden... and if you restrict it too much, then you force players out of their preferred faction... i would have to think about it after some sleep... im going on a few hours of sleep and a pretty bad hangover, im surprised im still awake actually

Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 1124	Posted - 2013.08.05 07:49:00 - [81] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: I like this idea. I don't want to loose the financial aspect of suit choice that we have at the moment though (even if it is a bit off, it was better in chromosome). With tiericide the costs are also equalised. So there is no way to bring out your good stuff to crack a tough nut. Can you think of a way to retain the cost decisions without resorting to vehicles or random loot? Perhaps excessively expensive modules that provide an extra 5-10%? Or does this just defeat the purpose of tiericide.... This is a good point; maybe one of the weaknesses of this idea. Initially, we'll see ISK lose its value as there's no quality just lots of different variants of the same quality, since everything should have strengths and weaknesses. But at least there will never really be a 'tough nut', since everything is equal. The only things that would determine victory would be player skill, tactics and teamwork. Maybe costs are equalised but raised? Since SP isn't too important with this system, players should be worried more about their wallet. They can purchase many different suits, but if prices were higher, it'd be more difficult to just purchase hundreds of suits. Or basic items should be cheap, but specialisations/variants are way more expensive? Dunno if CCP are simply going to ignore seriously pricing items until they decide to implement player trading.
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3863	Posted - 2013.08.05 07:57:00 - [82] - Quote T1 are around standard/advanced price. T2 are around proto price.
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3870	Posted - 2013.08.05 23:25:00 - [83] - Quote meow of justice and valor
Dog Merc Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.08.05 23:58:00 - [84] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: meow of justice and valor Bark of truth. Tiericide is always a good thing. Licks Cat
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3873	Posted - 2013.08.06 00:30:00 - [85] - Quote Dog Merc wrote: Cat Merc wrote: meow of justice and valor Bark of truth. Tiericide is always a good thing. Licks Cat Purrs
Killar-12 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 427	Posted - 2013.08.06 18:34:00 - [86] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: T1 are around standard/advanced price. T2 are around proto price. Okay... nice 10k for a T1 Medium and 60k for T2?
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3939	Posted - 2013.08.07 04:56:00 - [87] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: T1 are around standard/advanced price. T2 are around proto price. Okay... nice 10k for a T1 Medium and 60k for T2? Sure. And Militia stuff will stay at current price but it will be slightly worse than everything. Kinda like Rookie ships in EVE.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 1128	Posted - 2013.08.07 06:15:00 - [88] - Quote I reckon pricing should be based on how much we earn per contract. Find the average number of deaths (y), find the average ISK reward per contract (x), then make a fully fitted T1 suit worth x divided by y. So dying more than average loses you ISK. Dying more than average in T2 suits will mean you lose ISK. Then battles like PC and contracts that can be given for PvE missions (SoonGäó) and other things that EVE could contract mercenaries to do will become more important if their rewards are greater than that of public matches. Make it more painful to our wallets to die, because right now it doesn't feel as if dying has enough of an impact.
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3943	Posted - 2013.08.07 08:28:00 - [89] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: I reckon pricing should be based on how much we earn per contract. Find the average number of deaths (y), find the average ISK reward per contract (x), then make a fully fitted T1 suit worth x divided by y. So dying more than average loses you ISK. Dying more than average in T2 suits will mean you lose ISK. Then battles like PC and contracts that can be given for PvE missions (SoonGäó) and other things that EVE could contract mercenaries to do will become more important if their rewards are greater than that of public matches. Make it more painful to our wallets to die, because right now it doesn't feel as if dying has enough of an impact. In T1 gear you should be able to do constantly and still make a profit. In T2 is where the game needs to punish you for deaths.
Jimthefighter Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.08.07 13:29:00 - [90] - Quote So something maybe equivalent to, T1 you can lose up to 15-20 fully kitted out suits and still make a profit (not many people die 20 times in a match, at least the ones that aren't pubstomps). For T2 maybe be able to lose 5-10 fully kitted suits (also not all suits cost the same). Don't want to make them so expensive you feel like you can't play with them without losing money, but you should play conservatively, or with a good support team. Right now, proto costs are something like, 1-2 fully kitted clone losses are a net loss. These numbers are for for normal pub matches, earning anywhere from 200K ISK and below to 300K ISK and above. Obviously, PC matches are different with MUCH greater rewards. Side note, it'd be nice to be able to buy more/other things as you accumulate money, like installations to drop onto maps.



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