This is a FPS, and i think Forgeguns should be more powerful, why? well..

THIS IS A FPS.

I care not for vehicle drivers... They do nothing more than run over people (LAV's) , put snipers in unreachable spots (Dropships), or obliterate noobs in ambush (Tanks).

f*** vehicles.

Forgeguns already take skill to use (Not to mention the REQUIREMENT that is running in a slow ass heavy with a huge hitbox,plus huge SP sinks...) and a good vehicle can take several hits of them before running behind cover to recover.
I dont understand why vehicle drivers just want indestructible vehicles when they already have the tools to make extremely effective ones...

im pretty sure you wouldn't be talking **** if you actually skilled into tanks and see for yourself how hard they are and don't give me the "it was easy I rolled with a squad while in one" ****, I mean real tanking, going solo and then seeing how hard we have it, because honestly the squad oriented tanks are little to no use of mine, especially when going against other tankers

Lets just issue all vehicles 10 x's the Hp ...cave to the no skill vehicle players and just finish this game off with one swift blow, Rather than let vehicle play eat away at this fps like a cancer.

While tanks and all other vehicles do need a bit of love in my opinion I think you just made the point I've seen several infantry players try to make for awhile now that a lot of tankers just seem to be ignoring. To reiterate; this is a team oriented game, not a solo one. No one should be able to solo; not a tank, not a dropship, not an LAV, and definatly not infantry. If you want to be as effective as possible run with a squad and have others supporting you; same rules that apply to everyone else. (Im in favor of forcing no squads into a squad at the begininng of PUBS and FW alike) To "real tank" as you put it and to do as well as possible you should have to "Roll with a squad." supporting your tank. With how small matches are right now it shouldn't take 3 skilled AV players all concentrating fire to kill one ***hole in a tank else you risk turning PC and even FW or PUBS into a game of who has more tanks.

Allow me to give a more fleshed out explanation; lets say it does go the way I've seen some tank users suggesting and it takes 3-6 none tankers (depending on AV weapon level) to kill your tank. You sacrifice one man while the other team has to give half to a full squad just to counter; making 16 v 16 ground battles into 15 v 13 or 10 while the tank and AV players duke it out; all the while the opposing ground forces can kill them the same as any infantry player with little to no resistance. An AV player has plenty of counters while vehicles have very few. AV players can be killed by nearly anything on the ground or in the air, even other AV players can kill them with forgeguns and sidearms. On the other side vehicles can only be killed by two things; AV or another vehicle, anti-infantry players only appear on your radars as "free kills" scrambling to find cover when you roll up.

If we buff tanks without considering this matches can and will quickly become a game of WoT; and while I'm sure some of you will go "Good, Do want more vehicles and less assault rifles." think about how much your hurting everything else in the game. With tanks being strong enough to take on 3 to 6 people why the hell would anyone ever skill into AV and not tanks? PC wise why would a CEO field any AV players when he could just field one man with a good tank that could do a better job with less poeple away from the battle. Then when matches all full of tankers snipers and other anti-infantry players will have no place as the only thing anti-infantry players can do against tanks is either run, take cover, or toss AV grenades which (unless they are proto Lai-dai AV nades) are mostly useless; all ground forces shouldn't have to carry av grenades, holding off and or killing vehicles is what AV players are for. You would only need one ground unit on either side to hack objectives; all of the fighting would be between vehicles or the very few times the two hacking players would run into eachother.

To get a few "Counter arguments" I've seen out of the way-

-ISK cost does not equal more power or harder to kill, if you can't afford to lose it you cant afford to use it.

-your a tank AND a part of the team; your there to support the ground forces, not the other way around.

-Yes I'm an infantry player, no I don't have as much experiance in tanks as pure tankers. This does not make my arguments or points invalid; give actually counter points and constructive criticism.

So here is my challenge to all of you tankers; those of you who consider yourselves veteran tankers especially. How can we buff tanks and make them more useful in their roles without making this into a WoT scenario. I am eager to hear your thoughts on this.

Vae Victis

every time weve tried to give suggestion, there always refused unless they are nerfs

I haven't seen or refused any such suggestions; I want to hear the suggestions myself and have a meaningful conversation about it. Random anti-buff or nerf naysayers who simply say no or pass off meanignful suggestions without reading them can go AFK in hell for all I care; so please tell me if you have an idea.

Vae Victis

Ouch, thanks man, I only invested millions of isk and sp to specifically design my dropship to support infantry and a shock trooper team. Its a shame so many infantry think of vehicles this way, vehicles need infantry to reach their full potential and having a vehicle can help infantry a lot too, dropships especially. Thank you for acknowledging us. Anyway I'm not saying change all the stats, and I'm not saying bring back the ball of death. I'm just speaking in terms of balance. Not nerffing just making it so vehicle drivers can have a chance to react which makes it a lot more interesting and fun. I think its a fair trade, as I'm not asking for any alterations to damage or range, just that they are more visible and the only thing that can save a good pilot is situational awareness. I'm not trying to hurt anyone here, I know the forge gun is designed to kill dropships, I'm just trying to balance the scales and make it a little more interesting and skill dependant.

im pretty sure you wouldn't be talking **** if you actually skilled into tanks and see for yourself how hard they are and don't give me the "it was easy I rolled with a squad while in one" ****, I mean real tanking, going solo and then seeing how hard we have it, because honestly the squad oriented tanks are little to no use of mine, especially when going against other tankers

I'd say give the forge gunner a falloff to damage with range. Not just so dropships can have more of a chance but also a long range shot at a tank will only make the tank hide and you loose the kill.
I welcome criticism cus I don't spec into forge guns or even heavy suits. just an observation

They simply need the attention of the enemy team to bring them down. If anything is making them "OP" right now its that they can OHK from obscure places on the map while keeping their location relatively hidden. That frustrates people.

Much like snipers then, so lets do the same with all snipers?

Except snipers rely on stealth to survive, and to counter-snipe. You take away their element automatically and it compromises their entire class. They can't fight back against even a single target.

A forge gunner isn't quite such a pushover, but he isn't going to hold off a pissed off enemy squad either when he's lit up like a christmas tree. This is a balanced compromise to a dangerous tool.

A forge gunner is one of those cases where having one or two is a great tactical value, but if you have half your team forge gunning it isn't going to turn out well.

Because of this, being the one guy on your team who is lit up for everyone to shoot at isn't really a desirable position to be in, but you're still providing a crucial role to your team if you're skilled enough to take the heat.

HAHAHAHAHA so this is why tanks are having such a sad little time!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE to all other tankers don't do what this guy is doing....RL tanks have squads supporting them. They don't go off by themselves like "real men" because that would be ********. Tanks are designed to be used to support infantry.

Also in RL tanks are pretty easy to destroy. If the driver knows what they're doing in Dust Enforcers are nigh impossible without a group of AV infantry in prototype gear.

Do us infantry a favor an stick with us to push or defend points. AV grenadiers running at you are hardly a nuisance if you have two Duvolle assaults riding on your turret.

P.S. Snipers already watch your back, they just don't tell you. Running solo...sure...

Notable ideas that I've said are crap are...

The ones wanting a required three AVers to take on a HAV. I'm fine with this as long as HAVs are made inoperable without a full compliment of three crew.

Ones calling to make an AV set up cost as much as a HAV. Fine with me as long as my heavy forge set up has unlimited ammo, the same damage resistances as HAVs, the same EHP, same effective range, and equivalent heavy only modules. I'm willing to sacrifice the higher mobility for being a much smaller target.

And one that wanted an additional 50% damage resistance at lvl 5 HAV ops or whatever the skill is. That's just wanting something nearly god mode VS anything not an HAV or installation.

I'm all for fair treatment for HAVs, but that doesn't mean that they should be made invulnerable, or nearly so, to everything infantry carried.

as a heavy HMG & FG user, i propose the tanks have a limited supply of ammo, its also annoying when a tank is railgun sniping you from a distance and add to the fact that tanks have unlimited ammo.

and not to mention the fact that once you hit those guys they start retreating back behind the mountain they were sniping on.

if people are suggesting the nerf hammer on the FG then its fair for us to also say nerf to the HAV's ammo supply AND falloff dmg with range as well. since thats the only fair way to sort this out, HAV complains we have too much range, we complain you guys have the same long ass rang AND unlimited ammo.

that would be possible if you infantry actually cared that enemy AV is firing at us and actually went to kill them before they kill me, until that happens I don't think so.

There are already aluminum armor piercing arrows (APFSDS) travelling at 2000 m/s, not legal to train with due to extreme range, this is an futuristic game, tanks should be obsolete regarding infantry firepower.

Ouch, thanks man, I only invested millions of isk and sp to specifically design my dropship to support infantry and a shock trooper team. Its a shame so many infantry think of vehicles this way, vehicles need infantry to reach their full potential and having a vehicle can help infantry a lot too, dropships especially. Thank you for acknowledging us. Anyway I'm not saying change all the stats, and I'm not saying bring back the ball of death. I'm just speaking in terms of balance. Not nerffing just making it so vehicle drivers can have a chance to react which makes it a lot more interesting and fun. I think its a fair trade, as I'm not asking for any alterations to damage or range, just that they are more visible and the only thing that can save a good pilot is situational awareness. I'm not trying to hurt anyone here, I know the forge gun is designed to kill dropships, I'm just trying to balance the scales and make it a little more interesting and skill dependant.

Me and a friend from my corp got into an Asault Dropship (good one, and my friend is a great pilot), he went 29-0 i went 36-0 as gunner.
Even if we didn't take a single objective and the whole blue dot team were sucking ba..s we still won (Clon'd)
2 people made the difference thanks to a single vehicle, and believe me they Had AV instruments....

In other games you have vehicles, but they are all balanced since thy are all basically the same. The huge amount of custom these vehicles have PLUS the low amount of players per game that we have ATM make GROUND vehicles difficult to take down and Dropships impossible unless there is a heavy forge gunner in your team.

-AND THIS is the real issue at hand. With the same vehicle restrictions in a 32 vs 32 game mode the chance of having more AV infantry to deal with vehicles is more viable, (there by vehicles could have a light HP increase,etc)...while still having enough players to actually take obj,kill other soldiers,etc....

On other notes , they are not even the Dropships that are broken. Dropships need a little HP increase, but as fast as they are they can already out run Swarms, AV grenades are rarely useful against them and if you Nerf Forgeguns then you are making Dropships OP.
Nerfing THE ONLY weapon that is truly effective against dropships...

Plus what ARE you talking about FG not being ''Skill dept'' ? (this is no attack to Dropship pilots, doing that *** is hard and i would know, cant even maintain flight for more than 15 secs)
But Forge guns already need a lot of skill considering the disadvantages:

-Only suit that can use it is the heavy, which already sucks.
-Thanks to the Heavy's slow speed the range on the FG is necessary, i would say it could even get a buff....
-No aiming option on the weapon
-Blue glow when weapon is charged further hinders the AV soldier's ability to aim
-Slow reload and recharge (Unless you are using assault FG)
-Only have Side arm to defend yourself from ARs,Scram,ShotG,Mass D,etc...
-With the amount of HP and Speed some GROUND vehicles have, connecting more than 1 shot is a hard task , specially for a heavy with their SLOW speed.

If you get killed by a FGnner, he was a good one, is not EZ to hit a fleeing dropship...

im pretty sure you wouldn't be talking **** if you actually skilled into tanks and see for yourself how hard they are and don't give me the "it was easy I rolled with a squad while in one" ****, I mean real tanking, going solo and then seeing how hard we have it, because honestly the squad oriented tanks are little to no use of mine, especially when going against other tankers

As a forge gunner, I can attest to this. I really enjoy blowing up tanks, but I have an alt with about 4 mil SP that was just sitting there since the big respec, and I decided to try tanking... it is not easy. Tanks (basic ones, anyway) are much more fragile that people realize, and there is a lot to know about terrain, positioning, escape routes, etc. Had fun, though, and will be doing some more of it, though I did die a lot.

I agree about the forge flash, and that's coming from a forge gunner. It's a fair trade, for the amount of firepower you have. A tanker can see all the other major threats to them: turrets, swarm missiles, other tanks, dropships, infantry tossing AV grenades, but not forge gunners? Much as I like being invisible and blasting tanks, that's not quite fair to the tankers. Also, considering that there is a limit on the tank's cannon angle height, forgers can still get to a high position and be relatively safe from the tank itself, if they want to go toe to toe.