DUST Search - a balance to forgeguns without the "nerf" tag

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Me and a friend from my corp got into an Asault Dropship (good one, and my friend is a great pilot), he went 29-0 i went 36-0 as gunner.
Even if we didn't take a single objective and the whole blue dot team were sucking ba..s we still won (Clon'd)
2 people made the difference thanks to a single vehicle, and believe me they Had AV instruments....

In other games you have vehicles, but they are all balanced since thy are all basically the same. The huge amount of custom these vehicles have PLUS the low amount of players per game that we have ATM make GROUND vehicles difficult to take down and Dropships impossible unless there is a heavy forge gunner in your team.

-AND THIS is the real issue at hand. With the same vehicle restrictions in a 32 vs 32 game mode the chance of having more AV infantry to deal with vehicles is more viable, (there by vehicles could have a light HP increase,etc)...while still having enough players to actually take obj,kill other soldiers,etc....

On other notes , they are not even the Dropships that are broken. Dropships need a little HP increase, but as fast as they are they can already out run Swarms, AV grenades are rarely useful against them and if you Nerf Forgeguns then you are making Dropships OP.
Nerfing THE ONLY weapon that is truly effective against dropships...

Plus what ARE you talking about FG not being ''Skill dept'' ? (this is no attack to Dropship pilots, doing that *** is hard and i would know, cant even maintain flight for more than 15 secs)
But Forge guns already need a lot of skill considering the disadvantages:

-Only suit that can use it is the heavy, which already sucks.
-Thanks to the Heavy's slow speed the range on the FG is necessary, i would say it could even get a buff....
-No aiming option on the weapon
-Blue glow when weapon is charged further hinders the AV soldier's ability to aim
-Slow reload and recharge (Unless you are using assault FG)
-Only have Side arm to defend yourself from ARs,Scram,ShotG,Mass D,etc...
-With the amount of HP and Speed some GROUND vehicles have, connecting more than 1 shot is a hard task , specially for a heavy with their SLOW speed.

If you get killed by a FGnner, he was a good one, is not EZ to hit a fleeing dropship...


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Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 93	Posted - 2013.07.24 22:40:00 - [1] - Quote any dropship or tank driver can tell you that forgeguns are very good at what they do. Some would argue too good, however I believe the number one reason they are so good is because they are basically invisible to vehicle drivers. I know this to be true for the dropships at least. I think that the balance should be as such, forge guns stay exactly the same stats, but they shouldbe clearly visible from anywhere on the map, especially when charging. And I mean like massive blue flash I can see in my dropship from the celling. I think its a fair trade.
Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 93	Posted - 2013.07.25 01:42:00 - [2] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I think the best counter to a forge gunner should be the return of the glowy ball of doom when charging up, as well as a hud indicator which shows an energy spike in the area where it's being charged from. Forge Gunners are not invincible, nor should they be nerfed from what they can do. They simply need the attention of the enemy team to bring them down. If anything is making them "OP" right now its that they can OHK from obscure places on the map while keeping their location relatively hidden. That frustrates people. Thank you for completly understanding my point. All I need as a vehicle driver is too see them so I can gtfo from that area. I specifically said leave the stats but make it so I can see them. They have the most powerful handheld weapon in the game specificly designed to kill my dropship. I can't fight them. I need to know where I'm safe.
Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 93	Posted - 2013.07.25 04:43:00 - [3] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: This is a FPS, and i think Forgeguns should be more powerful, why? well.. THIS IS A FPS. I care not for vehicle drivers... They do nothing more than run over people (LAV's) , put snipers in unreachable spots (Dropships), or obliterate noobs in ambush (Tanks). f*** vehicles. Forgeguns already take skill to use (Not to mention the REQUIREMENT that is running in a slow ass heavy with a huge hitbox,plus huge SP sinks...) and a good vehicle can take several hits of them before running behind cover to recover. I dont understand why vehicle drivers just want indestructible vehicles when they already have the tools to make extremely effective ones... Ouch, thanks man, I only invested millions of isk and sp to specifically design my dropship to support infantry and a shock trooper team. Its a shame so many infantry think of vehicles this way, vehicles need infantry to reach their full potential and having a vehicle can help infantry a lot too, dropships especially. Thank you for acknowledging us. Anyway I'm not saying change all the stats, and I'm not saying bring back the ball of death. I'm just speaking in terms of balance. Not nerffing just making it so vehicle drivers can have a chance to react which makes it a lot more interesting and fun. I think its a fair trade, as I'm not asking for any alterations to damage or range, just that they are more visible and the only thing that can save a good pilot is situational awareness. I'm not trying to hurt anyone here, I know the forge gun is designed to kill dropships, I'm just trying to balance the scales and make it a little more interesting and skill dependant.
Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 95	Posted - 2013.07.25 17:40:00 - [4] - Quote Void Echo wrote: that would be possible if you infantry actually cared that enemy AV is firing at us and actually went to kill them before they kill me, until that happens I don't think so. was in a game, pushing A for the third time, suddenly two friendly blaster tanks start rolling up behind us. I tell my squad thats advancing with me, "squad lets support these tanks and push up on A" and so we did. we took A on that third push.
Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta 99	Posted - 2013.07.31 02:49:00 - [5] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Me and a friend from my corp got into an Asault Dropship (good one, and my friend is a great pilot), he went 29-0 i went 36-0 as gunner. Even if we didn't take a single objective and the whole blue dot team were sucking ba..s we still won (Clon'd) 2 people made the difference thanks to a single vehicle, and believe me they Had AV instruments.... In other games you have vehicles, but they are all balanced since thy are all basically the same. The huge amount of custom these vehicles have PLUS the low amount of players per game that we have ATM make GROUND vehicles difficult to take down and Dropships impossible unless there is a heavy forge gunner in your team. -AND THIS is the real issue at hand. With the same vehicle restrictions in a 32 vs 32 game mode the chance of having more AV infantry to deal with vehicles is more viable, (there by vehicles could have a light HP increase,etc)...while still having enough players to actually take obj,kill other soldiers,etc.... On other notes , they are not even the Dropships that are broken. Dropships need a little HP increase, but as fast as they are they can already out run Swarms, AV grenades are rarely useful against them and if you Nerf Forgeguns then you are making Dropships OP. Nerfing THE ONLY weapon that is truly effective against dropships... Plus what ARE you talking about FG not being ''Skill dept'' ? (this is no attack to Dropship pilots, doing that * is hard and i would know, cant even maintain flight for more than 15 secs) But Forge guns already need a lot of skill considering the disadvantages: -Only suit that can use it is the heavy, which already sucks. -Thanks to the Heavy's slow speed the range on the FG is necessary, i would say it could even get a buff.... -No aiming option on the weapon -Blue glow when weapon is charged further hinders the AV soldier's ability to aim -Slow reload and recharge (Unless you are using assault FG) -Only have Side arm to defend yourself from ARs,Scram,ShotG,Mass D,etc... -With the amount of HP and Speed some GROUND vehicles have, connecting more than 1 shot is a hard task , specially for a heavy with their SLOW speed. If you get killed by a FGnner, he was a good one, is not EZ to hit a fleeing dropship... well i never said dropships were broken so i can agree with you there. yes dropships have needed a slight hp buff since chromosome. I really dont know how I can make my self anymore clear, i'm not trying to "NERF" forgeguns, as i said from the ***** title. some dropships can outrun swarms, speed fit ones i believe can outrun protoswarms, mine is designed for supporting a squad more than getting kills, therefore protoswarms are still very much effective. A forge gun is not the only weapon against a dropship, protoswarms, rail tanks, rail turrets, other dropships, and flaylocks are all effective at killing dropships, most in one or two shots. I have already stated this but i will say it again for you, forge guns are specifically designed to take out dropships. The heavy is slow yes, however he is shooting a target in the sky that is visible to most of the map. One of the common tactics of forge gunners is to get in a LAV and hunt the dropship down. So Mobility really isn't a problem for them. I have even seen a guy that was in a LLAV jumped out with his forge while the LLAV was repping him. so even if i did hurt him he can just get back in his LLAV with 3000 plus shields and be half way across the map......great. forge gunners really don't have it so tough. Now getting back to my point and what i am trying to say, the forge gun is specifically designed to destroy my dropship, which yeah ok it needs a hard counter, that's why i'm saying to keep all the stats the same. all i'm asking for is to SEE that blue glow when the weapon is charging so i know where he is. Why? because if the dropship pilot is skilled, he wont engage in his field of fire and will try to stay away from him. If he is not skilled, then he would get shot down like pilots are right now. what if there are two forge gunners on the field? one is enough to kill a dropship, but now there is two. the pilot has no way of knowing this. this only lets pilots know that there is one on the field so we dont have to do this massive guessing game while our hit detection says that its somewhere by our MMC. Pilots cant afford to go looking for forge guns! they can take us down in two shots! we cant turn and look! we cant even see them and they can take us out in one or two shots?! It makes it more skill dependent by making forge gunners wait for their opportunity instead of oh hey a dropship, charge..boom. Is this really that game breaking for forge gunners? Since you said you know how hard flying is, do you know how hard flying is under forge gun fire? one mistake and you're 1.3 mil is gone. since the pilot cannot turn his head, you have to move the whole dropship to look in other directions, im sure you have an idea of how hard it would be to spot a blue dot, but if the pilot happened to catch it, then he could plan accordingly. the forge gun is over powered against dropships, but not because of its stats (that's what its designed to do) but simply because pilots have no way of seeing where they are, it would go along way to dropship pilots if we could simply see the forge gunners charging.