Dude... If you could see that there was going to be a massive difference in HP then ofcoarse the Nerf bat was going to hit you at somepoint.

Take this as a lesson, a harsh one MMOs throw out from time to time.

Plus one thing people DONT realise is that, if this is an 'over nerf' then CCP will re-balance it again in a couple of months, so its going to be bought in line with the rest. You had the smooth patch of running around as a 'God', time for the rough mate.


PS Go winmatar Logi those plates and Catalyzers wont go to waste then. Adapt and move on.

I dont care whether you guys get re-spec or not

but pretty much most people suggested logi suit would get nerfed when upriseing hit as it basiclly has the best of both worlds "assault \ logi" the nerf comes as no supprise, and you been here long enough to know as well as i do, that it was coming

hence why i choose assault from the begining

no one gains anything except for the chest thumping tards going HTFU

Barbar, you picked a support role, and now you're upset that it isn't the killing machine you wanted it to be. Boo hoo.

If you wanted minmatar assault, you should have gone minmatar assault, but no, you chose that CalLogi, like almost everybody else; because it was blatently OP.

Great.

If it was so obviously obvious that the suit was OP from the start, why did they make it like this in the first place?

CCP makes big mistake - player new to MMOs follow all the advice and think carefully about what he specs into - would have specced into assault if the numbers where what they will be after 1.3 - player gets punished by incompetent developer - players leave game (would have done that anyway tbh) - no one gains anything except for the chest thumping tards going HTFU

-Some players start another almost 3 M skillpoint grind, goes and buy more boosters....

it makes sense from a marketing standpoint up to the point when there is no customer base left.

Wjhy they simply won't give players the chance to respec the skills going into the suit is beyond me. CCP makes a mistake and all Cal Logi players have to suffer from it....


IF this is normal practice in most MMO games I find it hard to believe why they are so popular. Grind and grind some more, rinse and repeat when it gets nerfed. Then some more grinding. The part of this community that means this is how a game should be run can all stay behind in this soon to be very exclusive club. You all suck.

Great.

If it was so obviously obvious that the suit was OP from the start, why did they make it like this in the first place?

CCP makes big mistake - player new to MMOs follow all the advice and think carefully about what he specs into - would have specced into assault if the numbers where what they will be after 1.3 - player gets punished by incompetent developer - players leave game (would have done that anyway tbh) - no one gains anything except for the chest thumping tards going HTFU

-Some players start another almost 3 M skillpoint grind, goes and buy more boosters....

it makes sense from a marketing standpoint up to the point when there is no customer base left.

Wjhy they simply won't give players the chance to respec the skills going into the suit is beyond me. CCP makes a mistake and all Cal Logi players have to suffer from it....


IF this is normal practice in most MMO games I find it hard to believe why they are so popular. Grind and grind some more, rinse and repeat when it gets nerfed. Then some more grinding. The part of this community that means this is how a game should be run can all stay behind in this soon to be very exclusive club. You all suck.

I thought the big arguement was that gear didn't matter it was all about skill. Duh duh do doooooonnnnnn (que price is right music when u lose)

Proto bears crying is perdy music. Again try playing scout

Ccp cant get it in there heads that this is not EvE . This is not a RPG its a FPS, on a console , for console players its a entirely different sistem, sp earning is also different , the focus group is different , they make it so it mimics eve by its HTFU mentality but not even 10% of eve players play dust. So something has to change.

CCP NEVER MADE THE MISTAKE YOU DID. Im not too sure why or who gives the impression its all CCP's fault? At the end of the day they give you the tools, and then the players abuse them. You abuse them too much and get an UN-FAIR advantage then you should be nerfed and bought back in line with the rest of the suits. Simple.

[

Players end up paying for their mistakes.

every single player agrees with you.

In a sense, Dust is my first MMO. My introduction to a long lasting and ever changeing environment.

I don't see it as my job to predict what may be nerfed in the future and then stay away from speccing into it.

I expect a developer to not give out content that is so unbalanced that a major change is needed to rectify it.

If they do make these kinds of mistakes I would expect them to compensate the affected players with a partial skill respec.

In your first post you clearly stated Dust is ever changing, so why do you expect your stats to be set in stone?

tbh. I think you exactly knew that your suit was not in balance, especially after doing the math, but you still skilled into it.
Now you try to complain about CCP balancing their mistakes.......

CCP is not allmighty, they just can discuss what they think, how the playerbase uses and ABuses the content they will only see once the stuff is out and ready to use.

And with the mass of logis you see atm, I don't think those are ALL fully hearted logis. So something must be up with the suit.
And fact is the logi suit does everything what the assault suit does but better. So it's not balanced.

Call the cops, CCP don't give a **** ;)

meh your post has a quote fail

Dust is NOT my first MMO lol

So many, replies, I'll try and sum it up:

1. I am very tired of people claiming I chose this suit because "its the best killing machine", I do believe that the cal assault suit is superior to the logi fit, peple put WAY too much emphasis on max tank and forget speed, stamina, shield recharge and sidearm which in sum equals - 99 cpu and two slots to even the diffrences out, and even then the the assault suit will still have better stats on the mentioned "non tank" qualities.

2. I have never run this suit without usng all my 3 equipment slots, I have almost everything but repair tool at proto level.

3. I have never had more than 700 HP on it. (588 shields +112 armor) or (497 shields + 112+65 armor = 671)

- Running more HP than this will make the suit way too slow in terms of shield regen and movement speed, it only works for the more campy players taking their time, I'm not a patient player...

4. For all intents and purposes I have run this suit as a Logi suit carrying uplinks, medkit, scanners, hives, anti vehicle mines and REs. I have not run with a repper since most around m are shield tanked anyway.

5. I do not fear at all for my coming combat effectiveness, a new calculation has shown me that It'll be just as good for combat, I only lose 66 points of shields, while keeping everything else as is. (Not cunting equipment)

So what if I have to swap to a basic medkit instead of proto, it still gets the job done right?

And I will most likely still destroy and generally own whatever players I stomp in games today, not much will change.



So what has got me worked up like this?

The way it was handled. This change will turn me from an actual logi into more of a tryhard logi, it will have the exact opposite effect than intended. And I highly doubt that I'm alone in this...

And its the general principle of spending 6 weeks grinding for something that turns out to be something else a short while after due to a calculator battery failure at CCP, wihout being given the opportunity to make a new "informed choice" based on new data.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, removing a high slot would most likely have done the trick. It reduces max tank by 87.5 HP and even further the difficulity of carrying damage mods. I believe a sort of fix that only affect the combat side and not the logi side of things is the way to go...

In a sense, Dust is my first MMO. My introduction to a long lasting and ever changeing environment.

As a shooter player I'm used to having the possibility to respec and change my role on a regular basis.

This is normally an essential part of any shooter game.


Then Dust comes a long and phrases like "make informed choises" and "living with the consequences" comes a long and I think, hm, lets give it a go, I can be pretty smart when I want to.

So the game finally "launches" and I get lots and lots of choices regarding what suit and role I'm supposed to play. And seeing that I need about 1.5 month just to spec into another suit, I did not take that decision lighlty.

I really wanted to go for th Minmatar assault suit, with its speed being the carrot. I did in the end decide to go for the most combat fitted Logi suit.

I ran the numbers, on almost every suit, I made an informed decision about what i wanted to do.

2 moths later the suits stats are changed to the point where its reasonable to believe that I wouldn't have specced into it in the first place. I would have gone with the minmatar assault suit instead. Same goes for the 930 K skillpoints I've used on both a proto kinetic catalysor and proto armor plates. Such a waste.



So this is "making informed decisions" and "living with the consequenses"?

- Can someone please tell me whats so great about it? I don't get it.

What are you complaining about then?
You had an OP bonus. Now you don't, but your combat effectiveness is apparently unscathed. That sounds like perfect balancing on CCP's part to me.
Why make a thread complaining about the change if it isn't going to detriment your gameplay or your playstyle?

Just gonna leave this here to lighten the mood King Babar!

Anyways,

I can understand why CCP is hesitant to hand a respecs or skill refund.

1. What kind of example does it set when people knowly spec in a overly strong suit. Furthermore, does this also mean that people who skilled Flaylock will also get a respec, because it can no longer be used as a primary weapon?

2. It must be like EvE! lololololololol


However, CCP needs also understand the following

1. The specialized Suit Grind is extremely long and bland. In my Dust career I have done it about 7 times and each time was a horrible grinding experience. Sitting and not touching your hard earned SP for about 6 weeks is horrible. CCP needs to realize that many would just quit the game then skill into another suit.

2. CCP this monster is your own creation. Firstly, how did the specs of this suit ever reach development let alone the round table. Lastly, how did it get past QA.

Its easy to point and laugh at cal logis when you aren't one of them.

Fact of the matter is, this game wasn't ready for full release, and a system that punishes players by wasting their SP and time is a bad system.

Just gotta live with it Baber... turn yourself into the badassest assault player you can, dropping off all equipment.

Wait for the inevitable respec we'll eventually get and until then, chill in the MCC with some netflix in between PC matches and call it a day.

I mean honestly... if you only run one piece of equipment you can still fit quite a bit. You won't have the base speed of an assault suit but you can get pretty close otherwise.

Reading comprehension????

They in effect nerfed my ability as a logi more than my ability to be a fighter. It's the wrong way of doing it.

They could easily have reduced my role as a fighter without me having to sacrifice more of it to keep my support role up to speed.

In a sense, Dust is my first MMO. My introduction to a long lasting and ever changeing environment.

It's hard for me to feel sorry for any assault who specced into logis.


Choose your favored gamestyle and the fitting suits and weapons by YOUR flavour, not only the numbers.

Logis are Logis, Assaults are Assaults.

You don't even need math for this.

For sure Logis are/were a lil strong in uprising, but nonethheless it's not an assault.

I wanted to go assault, I wanted to rock the laser (now scrambler) and skilled for Amarr Assault, because I wanted to be one.


New Eden is an everchanging process, you will only lose if you go with the flavor of the month.
You better stick to the class you love and adjust from there.

Every single assault who skilled logi for it's momentary benefits should have known that a logi is not meant to be an assault. And therefore should have seen they will change something about this.

You made the decision to be a logi, so life with it.
Hopefully I will now see some Logis put down some ammo and supporting their team.

2. CCP this monster is your own creation. Firstly, how did the specs of this suit ever reach development let alone the round table. Lastly, how did it get past QA.

No, you're the one nerfing your support effectiveness.
You spoke about swapping your equipment for lower tier stuff. What about your AR?
You want to be assault, and you're fooling nobody.
You want combat effectiveness reduced? They nerfed it's health. Logic much?

You still have one more low slot than you're supposed to. Stick a CPU extender on, and you'll be on the same footing as the other logis.

Dude... If you could see that there was going to be a massive difference in HP then ofcoarse the Nerf bat was going to hit you at somepoint.

Take this as a lesson, a harsh one MMOs throw out from time to time.

Plus one thing people DONT realise is that, if this is an 'over nerf' then CCP will re-balance it again in a couple of months, so its going to be bought in line with the rest. You had the smooth patch of running around as a 'God', time for the rough mate.


PS Go winmatar Logi those plates and Catalyzers wont go to waste then. Adapt and move on.

Ok here is the thing

I have 17 million skill points not the most out there not buy a long way but still a significant number of skill points .

If they offer regular respec or even a respec every time thay change something i will quit .

What is the point of playing ?

I have enough sp to max out any suit and gun + mods i just w8 for the respec and swap for the new FOTM stuff .

I certainly wont be spending any more cash on aurm ...whats the point i all ready have all the skill points i will ever need .

A respect for me would rob the feeling of working for something new which imo is a major part of any mmo

Dust is a MMO in the same way that world of tanks,mech warrior online are

You sort of nail it right here!!!

I sort of suspect that this is a large part of the business strategy from CCP.

Lets put in stuff ha are OP, lets watch the community spec into it and over use it.

Wait until the QQ gets oud enough and change it, let them all grind towards something new and shiny.

- Lets keep those boosters rolling out!

Rinse and repeat.

I see a pattern here.

I'd rather pay a subscription fee than this.

-FOTM stuff is always a fault from the developers side, never blame the players for using legit ingame mechanics to stay as competitive as possible.

But, but, how could they prove their superiority by utilizing EVERY advantage possible then?!?!?!?

I think it is hilarious how all of the so-called elites just naturally gravitate to the things that give the most advantages, you'd almost think that they were afraid that they weren't as good as they claim to be.

SIUB or GTFO

I'm fairly certain most of us are aware of which most of the "nerfed" will choose.

Personally I say good riddence, the game will continue and grow without the "elites" (read: exploiters of every advantage they feel they are entitled to in perpetuity).

i play gallente logi, for the equipment slots. sure its slow, but then as a logi i dont want to be first in the room.

If i wanted a faster suit, i'd spec into minmatar... oh wait i am doing that atm......

If i wanted proper tank and combat effectiveness i'd spec into Amarr... oh wait... also doing that...

If i wanted to be a douche i'd go Caldari... not much chance of that.. well actually reading the above it does spound smug and douchey... guess ill be training up caldari as well :(..



At the start of you supposed 6 week grind, did you lament that you were forced to grind to acess the gear?

i did :P

but now that i have acess to it, its there to be used as i need it.


No you don't need a respec. You just need to HTFU and grind some more....."did someone say MMO?"


traditionally MMO's don't allow full respecs :P... you dont get to change your wizard into a knight I am afraid... for that you need to roll a new toon :P ... grind those SP's padawan, the time spent trolling on forums penning QQ could've netted you a portion of the SP for next months FOTM :P

It's not about elites.

If you choose your dropsuit because of some Eve storyline then you are an idiot.

If you choose your dropsuit for any reason other than how effective you think you can be on the battlefield then you are an idiot.

If you don't choose a dropsuit despite believing it's the best for you because you think it might get nerfed then you are an idiot.

Not only do people think that players need to come up with great fittings and proper skill paths to be successful, but we must also try to guess when and where the nerf bat hits? This is insane logic.

This isn't about the logi suit or the tank or the LAV or the grenade. This is about the playerbase. I'll guarantee you that we are losing more players because they are either unhappy with the role they are in, bored, or just too spread out to be effective than players that are unhappy with a recent nerf.

The problem is in two areas. The time it takes CCP to correct obvious OP items. Taking two or three months to correct a glaring issue doesn't send the right message. Secondly the nerfs come to things that don't need it from time to time out of left field.

I've read some posts from CPMs that they don't want to see buffs correct issues, but I don't agree with that either. We are playing a game where you take and give much more damage to kill or be killed than the majority of shooters. What is the problem with making things more powerful more often to create balance instead of the other way around? By making other things more powerful you end up with fewer unhappy people. Perhaps this should only be a tactic in the short term as customer satisfaction is an all time low right now.

You sort of nail it right here!!!

I sort of suspect that this is a large part of the business strategy from CCP.

Lets put in stuff that are OP, lets watch the community spec into it and over use it.

Wait until the QQ gets loud enough and change it, let them all grind towards something new and shiny.

- Lets keep those boosters rolling out!

Rinse and repeat.

I see a pattern here.

I'd rather pay a subscription fee than this.

-FOTM stuff is always a fault from the developers side, never blame the players for using legit ingame mechanics to stay as competitive as possible.

This is definitely what appears to be the business model and people are taking the bait hook line and sinker. In addition to boosters many players will use Aur items to bridge the gap as they wait for their SP to accumulate.

We've had 3 major FOTM items. The TAC/Modded controller combo, the laser rifle, and the Flaylock. They were problems, but to me the biggest issue is that it took so long to correct.

Would you rather have 10,000 people online playing or 2,000-3,000? I guess that's the question you need to answer.

Dust514 is not MMO.

Its a RPG with guns set in the universe of a MMO , EVE-ONLINE.

That doesnt make Dust514 an MMO.

Dust514 is just matches 16vs16.

Thats not MASSIVE.

Fixed.

Barbar, you picked a support role, and now you're upset that it isn't the killing machine you wanted it to be. Boo hoo.
If you wanted minmatar assault, you should have gone minmatar assault, but no, you chose that CalLogi, like almost everybody else; because it was blatently OP.

You mean stick another CPU extender on it?

The rest is just carebear jibberish, no one should sacrifice their combat effectiveness in a FPS game.

Wrong he picked up a logistics suit. In no uncertain terms is there any restriction in this game to use it as an assualt suit. That the whole point of sandbox games. Its CCP's job to make the suits balanced around what they envision in the first place.

FYI the Minmatar vk.1 was universally a better assault suit in choromosome then Caldari assaut suits in every way imaginable but people didnt have a respec option to use them immediately and suffer thtrough having to grind through the entire logistics suits tree to get to them.

Point is CCP screws up and then expects the players to avoid their screwups. Also point of fact if people didnt spec into those suits it wouldnt be getting adjusted. If it was sooo obvious CCP would catch the mistake right swsy, but they dont they are passive in their balancing and use the data metrics to guide their decisions more then player feedback. We told them within minutes of Uprising being launched about the Cal logi yet we dont see any changes till 2 months later, oh yea they are totally clued into their game.

Sorry its not our job to wait on CCP to get there head out of their ass if people are trying to keep a competitive edge. Its CCP's job to release balanced content and when they dont to offer partial respecs in areas where they change items. If they dont the avoidance that everyons suggest will take even longer to see balance tweek because CCP wont act on anything until their internal metrics tell them otherwise. You honestly think they give a **** about what we tell them they dont. They dont do anything until the pub data shows them they ****** up.

Nah, despite you thinking you're right, you're wrong.

If it was that, it'd be Orders of Magnitude better.

I chose my dropsuits for what I saw as the "fun factor", not so I could be some min/maxing crybaby when the inevitable balancing pass comes along.

Chunky Munkey for President. +1

So what you are saying is that you try to forecast what nerfs will come and you use equipment that is less likely to be nerfed? Do you think that is a recipe for success for a video game? Honestly?

I'm picturing Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. "Well I'd like to use XXX but I'm sure they'll nerf it at some point so I'll just stick with what I'm doing".

I'd rather have a fun game that allows me to change my path.

I would love to be a scout shotgun player right now, but it would take me two months to do it. And if I don't end up liking it and I'm bored with the role I was in before?

I totally understand CCP's business model and "code of skill progression" in Eve. I get it, I don't need an explanation here. Perhaps they can/should adopt it for Dust when the game is somewhat close to a finished product (and again I understand how the development is supposed to happen). RIght now they need to do whatever it takes to keep players around.

Yeah, DOOM 'N' GLOOM on Aisle 6!!!

No, you're the one nerfing your support effectiveness.
You spoke about swapping your equipment for lower tier stuff. What about your AR?
You want to be assault, and you're fooling nobody.
You want combat effectiveness reduced? They nerfed it's health. Logic much?

You still have one more low slot than you're supposed to. Stick a CPU extender on, and you'll be on the same footing as the other logis.

Like I've said before. I talk and play with a lot of people. I've been around a long time. I'm not sure how anyone can not be concerned with the amount of players leaving the game.

I love how the HTFU crowd are the people who can't manage to take a single point in PC matches, or spend most of their time in the negative side of k/d ratios in pubs. They obviously understand game mechanics.

I love how the HTFU crowd are the people who can't manage to take a single point in PC matches, or spend most of their time in the negative side of k/d ratios in pubs. They obviously understand game mechanics.

I love how the "elites" are the ones crying for respecs when their OP FOTMs get faceraped with a balancebat.

Lol.

I love how the "elites" are the ones crying for respecs when their OP FOTMs get faceraped with a balancebat.

Lol.

Run a Gal Logi with SCR and armor tanked to the nuts, still leet and still think respecs are warranted. move along peasant

No, you're the one nerfing your support effectiveness.
You spoke about swapping your equipment for lower tier stuff. What about your AR?
You want to be assault, and you're fooling nobody.
You want combat effectiveness reduced? They nerfed it's health. Logic much?

You still have one more low slot than you're supposed to. Stick a CPU extender on, and you'll be on the same footing as the other logis.

i guess if i dumped all my sp into the missile pistol like a noob i'd be crying too...

I have 20 million SP... If was offered a respec the only reason I would even consider dropping calidari logi is the fear that CCP would do something like add a damage reduction to the suit or limit us to side arms. The point we are trying to get across is that being a repping logi is not at all viable in the game. The arguement we are making is it is ludacris for us to be making permanent decisions when CCP hasn't implemented in all the racial suits and all the suits in the game are subject to wide sweeping changes without SP refunds. Furthermore no high end player is going to run multiple different suits for different roles because sensitivity is tied to movement speed. For example I cannot change from a cal logi to assault mid game because that also changes my mouse sensitivity. For people who train reflexes, which is most FPS players, this is extremely frustrating and makes for a terrible experience.

1) the vast majority of the playerbase is shield tanked so armor reppers are usless unless you are going to stand behind a heavy all game.

2) The game modes are limited to 16 v 16, at this size a team cannot sacrifice killers for pure support players. EVERONE has to be a killer on the fields. Assault suites are the best with increased sprint & movement speed as well as a larger regen tick. However logi's still must be able to hold their own in a fight aswell, if not they are nothing more than a liability on the field.

3) In competitive matches the only must have equipment for logi's to carry is the proto uplink, after that everything else is just simply nice to have. Which I would say providing uplinks for the team is filling that "logistics" role. Remember in most places logistics is as much providing transportation as it is repairing. Rez tools are useless due to the few seconds the player is motionless during the rez as skilled opponents will tearm through even the most hardy heavys before they are able to gain control.

4) If logi's are nerfed to be comepletelyt combat ineffective, competitive teams will only bring 1-2 logi suits with them, both with equipment slots filled with nothing but uplinks, and their slot layouts built for speed.

TLDR: lol scrubs think they know what they are talking about.

In a sense, Dust is my first MMO. My introduction to a long lasting and ever changeing environment.

As a shooter player I'm used to having the possibility to respec and change my role on a regular basis.

This is normally an essential part of any shooter game.


Then Dust comes a long and phrases like "make informed choises" and "living with the consequences" comes a long and I think, hm, lets give it a go, I can be pretty smart when I want to.

So the game finally "launches" and I get lots and lots of choices regarding what suit and role I'm supposed to play. And seeing that I need about 1.5 month just to spec into another suit, I did not take that decision lighlty.

I really wanted to go for th Minmatar assault suit, with its speed being the carrot. I did in the end decide to go for the most combat fitted Logi suit.

I ran the numbers, on almost every suit, I made an informed decision about what i wanted to do.

2 moths later the suits stats are changed to the point where its reasonable to believe that I wouldn't have specced into it in the first place. I would have gone with the minmatar assault suit instead. Same goes for the 930 K skillpoints I've used on both a proto kinetic catalysor and proto armor plates. Such a waste.



So this is "making informed decisions" and "living with the consequenses"?

- Can someone please tell me whats so great about it? I don't get it.