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KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 09:06:00 -
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In a sense, Dust is my first MMO. My introduction to a long lasting and ever changeing environment.
As a shooter player I'm used to having the possibility to respec and change my role on a regular basis.
This is normally an essential part of any shooter game.
Then Dust comes a long and phrases like "make informed choises" and "living with the consequences" comes a long and I think, hm, lets give it a go, I can be pretty smart when I want to.
So the game finally "launches" and I get lots and lots of choices regarding what suit and role I'm supposed to play. And seeing that I need about 1.5 month just to spec into another suit, I did not take that decision lighlty.
I really wanted to go for th Minmatar assault suit, with its speed being the carrot. I did in the end decide to go for the most combat fitted Logi suit.
I ran the numbers, on almost every suit, I made an informed decision about what i wanted to do.
2 moths later the suits stats are changed to the point where its reasonable to believe that I wouldn't have specced into it in the first place. I would have gone with the minmatar assault suit instead. Same goes for the 930 K skillpoints I've used on both a proto kinetic catalysor and proto armor plates. Such a waste.
So this is "making informed decisions" and "living with the consequenses"?
- Can someone please tell me whats so great about it? I don't get it. |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 11:41:00 -
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Guinevere Bravo wrote:Dude... If you could see that there was going to be a massive difference in HP then ofcoarse the Nerf bat was going to hit you at somepoint.
Take this as a lesson, a harsh one MMOs throw out from time to time.
Plus one thing people DONT realise is that, if this is an 'over nerf' then CCP will re-balance it again in a couple of months, so its going to be bought in line with the rest. You had the smooth patch of running around as a 'God', time for the rough mate.
PS Go winmatar Logi those plates and Catalyzers wont go to waste then. Adapt and move on.
Great.
If it was so obviously obvious that the suit was OP from the start, why did they make it like this in the first place?
CCP makes big mistake - player new to MMOs follow all the advice and think carefully about what he specs into - would have specced into assault if the numbers where what they will be after 1.3 - player gets punished by incompetent developer - players leave game (would have done that anyway tbh) - no one gains anything except for the chest thumping tards going HTFU
-Some players start another almost 3 M skillpoint grind, goes and buy more boosters....
it makes sense from a marketing standpoint up to the point when there is no customer base left.
Wjhy they simply won't give players the chance to respec the skills going into the suit is beyond me. CCP makes a mistake and all Cal Logi players have to suffer from it....
IF this is normal practice in most MMO games I find it hard to believe why they are so popular. Grind and grind some more, rinse and repeat when it gets nerfed. Then some more grinding. The part of this community that means this is how a game should be run can all stay behind in this soon to be very exclusive club. You all suck. |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 12:55:00 -
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sixteensixty4 wrote:I dont care whether you guys get re-spec or not but pretty much most people suggested logi suit would get nerfed when upriseing hit as it basiclly has the best of both worlds "assault \ logi" the nerf comes as no supprise, and you been here long enough to know as well as i do, that it was coming hence why i choose assault from the begining 
I don't see it as my job to predict what may be nerfed in the future and then stay away from speccing into it.
I expect a developer to not give out content that is so unbalanced that a major change is needed to rectify it.
If they do make these kinds of mistakes I would expect them to compensate the affected players with a partial skill respec. |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 15:10:00 -
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So many, replies, I'll try and sum it up:
1. I am very tired of people claiming I chose this suit because "its the best killing machine", I do believe that the cal assault suit is superior to the logi fit, peple put WAY too much emphasis on max tank and forget speed, stamina, shield recharge and sidearm which in sum equals - 99 cpu and two slots to even the diffrences out, and even then the the assault suit will still have better stats on the mentioned "non tank" qualities.
2. I have never run this suit without usng all my 3 equipment slots, I have almost everything but repair tool at proto level.
3. I have never had more than 700 HP on it. (588 shields +112 armor) or (497 shields + 112+65 armor = 671)
- Running more HP than this will make the suit way too slow in terms of shield regen and movement speed, it only works for the more campy players taking their time, I'm not a patient player...
4. For all intents and purposes I have run this suit as a Logi suit carrying uplinks, medkit, scanners, hives, anti vehicle mines and REs. I have not run with a repper since most around m are shield tanked anyway.
5. I do not fear at all for my coming combat effectiveness, a new calculation has shown me that It'll be just as good for combat, I only lose 66 points of shields, while keeping everything else as is. (Not cunting equipment)
So what if I have to swap to a basic medkit instead of proto, it still gets the job done right?
And I will most likely still destroy and generally own whatever players I stomp in games today, not much will change.
So what has got me worked up like this?
The way it was handled. This change will turn me from an actual logi into more of a tryhard logi, it will have the exact opposite effect than intended. And I highly doubt that I'm alone in this...
And its the general principle of spending 6 weeks grinding for something that turns out to be something else a short while after due to a calculator battery failure at CCP, wihout being given the opportunity to make a new "informed choice" based on new data.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, removing a high slot would most likely have done the trick. It reduces max tank by 87.5 HP and even further the difficulity of carrying damage mods. I believe a sort of fix that only affect the combat side and not the logi side of things is the way to go... |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 16:11:00 -
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Chunky Munkey wrote:KingBabar wrote:So many, replies, I'll try and sum it up:
1. I am very tired of people claiming I chose this suit because "its the best killing machine", I do believe that the cal assault suit is superior to the logi fit, peple put WAY too much emphasis on max tank and forget speed, stamina, shield recharge and sidearm which in sum equals - 99 cpu and two slots to even the diffrences out, and even then the the assault suit will still have better stats on the mentioned "non tank" qualities.
2. I have never run this suit without usng all my 3 equipment slots, I have almost everything but repair tool at proto level.
3. I have never had more than 700 HP on it. (588 shields +112 armor) or (497 shields + 112+65 armor = 671)
- Running more HP than this will make the suit way too slow in terms of shield regen and movement speed, it only works for the more campy players taking their time, I'm not a patient player...
4. For all intents and purposes I have run this suit as a Logi suit carrying uplinks, medkit, scanners, hives, anti vehicle mines and REs. I have not run with a repper since most around m are shield tanked anyway.
5. I do not fear at all for my coming combat effectiveness, a new calculation has shown me that It'll be just as good for combat, I only lose 66 points of shields, while keeping everything else as is. (Not cunting equipment)
So what if I have to swap to a basic medkit instead of proto, it still gets the job done right?
And I will most likely still destroy and generally own whatever players I stomp in games today, not much will change.
So what has got me worked up like this?
The way it was handled. This change will turn me from an actual logi into more of a tryhard logi, it will have the exact opposite effect than intended. And I highly doubt that I'm alone in this...
And its the general principle of spending 6 weeks grinding for something that turns out to be something else a short while after due to a calculator battery failure at CCP, wihout being given the opportunity to make a new "informed choice" based on new data.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, removing a high slot would most likely have done the trick. It reduces max tank by 87.5 HP and even further the difficulity of carrying damage mods. I believe a sort of fix that only affect the combat side and not the logi side of things is the way to go... What are you complaining about then? You had an OP bonus. Now you don't, but your combat effectiveness is apparently unscathed. That sounds like perfect balancing on CCP's part to me. Why make a thread complaining about the change if it isn't going to detriment your gameplay or your playstyle?
Reading comprehension????
They in effect nerfed my ability as a logi more than my ability to be a fighter. It's the wrong way of doing it.
They could easily have reduced my role as a fighter without me having to sacrifice more of it to keep my support role up to speed.
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KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 16:19:00 -
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ReGnYuM wrote:Just gonna leave this here to lighten the mood King Babar!Anyways, I can understand why CCP is hesitant to hand a respecs or skill refund. 1. What kind of example does it set when people knowly spec in a overly strong suit. Furthermore, does this also mean that people who skilled Flaylock will also get a respec, because it can no longer be used as a primary weapon? 2. It must be like EvE! lololololololol However, CCP needs also understand the following 1. The specialized Suit Grind is extremely long and bland. In my Dust career I have done it about 7 times and each time was a horrible grinding experience. Sitting and not touching your hard earned SP for about 6 weeks is horrible. CCP needs to realize that many would just quit the game then skill into another suit. 2. CCP this monster is your own creation. Firstly, how did the specs of this suit ever reach development let alone the round table. Lastly, how did it get past QA.
Some very good points, as always, and:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcU3Yu_0O_0 |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 16:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:KingBabar wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:KingBabar wrote:So many, replies, I'll try and sum it up:
1. I am very tired of people claiming I chose this suit because "its the best killing machine", I do believe that the cal assault suit is superior to the logi fit, peple put WAY too much emphasis on max tank and forget speed, stamina, shield recharge and sidearm which in sum equals - 99 cpu and two slots to even the diffrences out, and even then the the assault suit will still have better stats on the mentioned "non tank" qualities.
2. I have never run this suit without usng all my 3 equipment slots, I have almost everything but repair tool at proto level.
3. I have never had more than 700 HP on it. (588 shields +112 armor) or (497 shields + 112+65 armor = 671)
- Running more HP than this will make the suit way too slow in terms of shield regen and movement speed, it only works for the more campy players taking their time, I'm not a patient player...
4. For all intents and purposes I have run this suit as a Logi suit carrying uplinks, medkit, scanners, hives, anti vehicle mines and REs. I have not run with a repper since most around m are shield tanked anyway.
5. I do not fear at all for my coming combat effectiveness, a new calculation has shown me that It'll be just as good for combat, I only lose 66 points of shields, while keeping everything else as is. (Not cunting equipment)
So what if I have to swap to a basic medkit instead of proto, it still gets the job done right?
And I will most likely still destroy and generally own whatever players I stomp in games today, not much will change.
So what has got me worked up like this?
The way it was handled. This change will turn me from an actual logi into more of a tryhard logi, it will have the exact opposite effect than intended. And I highly doubt that I'm alone in this...
And its the general principle of spending 6 weeks grinding for something that turns out to be something else a short while after due to a calculator battery failure at CCP, wihout being given the opportunity to make a new "informed choice" based on new data.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, removing a high slot would most likely have done the trick. It reduces max tank by 87.5 HP and even further the difficulity of carrying damage mods. I believe a sort of fix that only affect the combat side and not the logi side of things is the way to go... What are you complaining about then? You had an OP bonus. Now you don't, but your combat effectiveness is apparently unscathed. That sounds like perfect balancing on CCP's part to me. Why make a thread complaining about the change if it isn't going to detriment your gameplay or your playstyle? Reading comprehension???? They in effect nerfed my ability as a logi more than my ability to be a fighter. It's the wrong way of doing it. They could easily have reduced my role as a fighter without me having to sacrifice more of it to keep my support role up to speed. No, you're the one nerfing your support effectiveness. You spoke about swapping your equipment for lower tier stuff. What about your AR? You want to be assault, and you're fooling nobody. You want combat effectiveness reduced? They nerfed it's health. Logic much? You still have one more low slot than you're supposed to. Stick a CPU extender on, and you'll be on the same footing as the other logis.
You mean stick another CPU extender on it?
The rest is just carebear jibberish, no one should sacrifice their combat effectiveness in a FPS game.
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KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 16:54:00 -
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Vickers S Grunt wrote:Ok here is the thing
I have 17 million skill points not the most out there not buy a long way but still a significant number of skill points .
If they offer regular respec or even a respec every time thay change something i will quit .
What is the point of playing ?
I have enough sp to max out any suit and gun + mods i just w8 for the respec and swap for the new FOTM stuff .
I certainly wont be spending any more cash on aurm ...whats the point i all ready have all the skill points i will ever need .
A respect for me would rob the feeling of working for something new which imo is a major part of any mmo
Dust is a MMO in the same way that world of tanks,mech warrior online are
You sort of nail it right here!!!
I sort of suspect that this is a large part of the business strategy from CCP.
Lets put in stuff that are OP, lets watch the community spec into it and over use it.
Wait until the QQ gets loud enough and change it, let them all grind towards something new and shiny.
- Lets keep those boosters rolling out!
Rinse and repeat.
I see a pattern here.
I'd rather pay a subscription fee than this.
-FOTM stuff is always a fault from the developers side, never blame the players for using legit ingame mechanics to stay as competitive as possible. |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:01:00 -
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Billi Gene wrote:i play gallente logi, for the equipment slots. sure its slow, but then as a logi i dont want to be first in the room.
If i wanted a faster suit, i'd spec into minmatar... oh wait i am doing that atm......
If i wanted proper tank and combat effectiveness i'd spec into Amarr... oh wait... also doing that...
If i wanted to be a douche i'd go Caldari... not much chance of that.. well actually reading the above it does spound smug and douchey... guess ill be training up caldari as well :(..
At the start of you supposed 6 week grind, did you lament that you were forced to grind to acess the gear?
i did :P
but now that i have acess to it, its there to be used as i need it.
No you don't need a respec. You just need to HTFU and grind some more....."did someone say MMO?"
traditionally MMO's don't allow full respecs :P... you dont get to change your wizard into a knight I am afraid... for that you need to roll a new toon :P ... grind those SP's padawan, the time spent trolling on forums penning QQ could've netted you a portion of the SP for next months FOTM :P
Unless you AFK farm, eat dinner and have a some jazz tobacco and chilled Swedish cider at the same time  |
KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:46:00 -
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No, you're the one nerfing your support effectiveness.
You spoke about swapping your equipment for lower tier stuff. What about your AR?
You want to be assault, and you're fooling nobody.
You want combat effectiveness reduced? They nerfed it's health. Logic much?
You still have one more low slot than you're supposed to. Stick a CPU extender on, and you'll be on the same footing as the other logis.
[/quote]
You mean stick another CPU extender on it?
The rest is just carebear jibberish, no one should sacrifice their combat effectiveness in a FPS game.
[/quote]
"No one should sacrifice their combat effectiveness in an FPS game".
You called for exactly that only a few posts ago.
And I agree with the earlier Barbar.
You're a logi. You have to sacrifice your combat effectiveness. That's the whole point.
There's no point arguing this issue if you can't even have some consistency.
You don't have a point to make, you're just upset that your OP suit got nerfed.
HTFU
HTFU.[/quote]
You keep missunderstanding me.
I want CCP to directly nerf the suits combat efficiency,
I don't wan't them to put me in a position where I have to chose between the two.
Don't you see the big difference?
As it is now, it can still be a decent combat fit, but most likely it will reduce my possibility for support making me an even more combat oriented player than I currently am.
Do the math on this:
Keep the new racial skill and shield recharge delay as suggested
remove one high slot
keep the old CPU - I and dare I say most other cal logis already uses a CPU upgrade on it.
This way I can still put on fancy pants equipment and decent weaponry,
But I lose either an extender, damage mod or an shield recharger... For most its 66*1.1= 72,6 HP
In total this will mean: racial bonus loss= - 66 shields - 72,6 = Minus 138,6 HP from max tank.
This is just one way of doing it, its the general principle off it.
If this still wouldn't be enough I would suggest loosing a low slot too.
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KingBabar
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:59:00 -
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I obviously suck at quoting, my bad |
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