DUST Search - What will the Cal Logi players do after 1.3?

ZDub 303 wrote:

Its the same thing I've said all along.

There are probably a lot of changes between 1.4 - 2.0 that will be made to all of the classes. Its inevitable really.

CCP has a vision for what they want each class to be, and I'm sure that the classes are not meeting the mark at all.

Here's the problem for me. CCP keeps making changes (as they need to) and these changes affect a lot of people and can completely nullify choices that have been made.

It makes making 'meaningful decisions' impossible.

CCP should continue to make these changes, yes, definitely. But SP refund should be a matter of fact, period.

I know it kills immersion/the point of the game. But until we can get to a point where the devs are happy with the game... we need to stop pointing and laughing at people that are adversely affected by these changes.

No one will argue cal logis didn't need a change, but these kinds of changes are going to keep happening.

What if 'pure logi' gallenetes get swapped into side arm only? Should the rest of us just point and laugh at the millions of SP that they put into the suit and light weaponry?

Maybe gall logis needed the change to balance them out vs. scenario x, y, and z. And maybe a lot of people will be fine with the change... but a lot of people wont... and they will be royally ****** out of months of grinding.

Its not right.

Ignoring cal logi changes for a second... messing with people's skills and completely changing their playstyle when they have no means to adapt to the changes other than 'grind 6-10 weeks to catch back up, and buy some aurum gear... cause its a 'free' game after all! lulz!!!" is not a good way to treat your player base.

And to answer the OP:

I would drop down to the GEK probably on one fit and dropped some of the equipment on another fit. In PC the only thing you really need is proto uplinks.

I'm working on a build using Imperial Uplinks, Ishukone Nanos, and basic REs. But it'll be using basic nades, and a GEK for sure.

I'll defo be running assault next respec, these changes aren't over for sure. I can guarantee logis in general will be receiving further nerfs, the 5 hp/s will be the first to go I'm sure. Assaults will probably be seeing some buffs too.

The combat potential of each class will be receiving significant changes I'm sure of it.

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KingBabar Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 968	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:20:00 - [61] - Quote I sort of made the mistake of making two threads that are too closely related, sorry. I'll drop this in from the other thread: So many, replies, I'll try and sum it up: 1. I am very tired of people claiming I chose this suit because "its the best killing machine", I do believe that the cal assault suit is superior to the logi fit, peple put WAY too much emphasis on max tank and forget speed, stamina, shield recharge and sidearm which in sum equals - 99 cpu and two slots to even the diffrences out, and even then the the assault suit will still have better stats on the mentioned "non tank" qualities. 2. I have never run this suit without usng all my 3 equipment slots, I have almost everything but repair tool at proto level. 3. I have never had more than 700 HP on it. (588 shields +112 armor) or (497 shields + 112+65 armor = 671) - Running more HP than this will make the suit way too slow in terms of shield regen and movement speed, it only works for the more campy players taking their time, I'm not a patient player... 4. For all intents and purposes I have run this suit as a Logi suit carrying uplinks, medkit, scanners, hives, anti vehicle mines and REs. I have not run with a repper since most around m are shield tanked anyway. 5. I do not fear at all for my coming combat effectiveness, a new calculation has shown me that It'll be just as good for combat, I only lose 66 points of shields, while keeping everything else as is. (Not cunting equipment) So what if I have to swap to a basic medkit instead of proto, it still gets the job done right? And I will most likely still destroy and generally own whatever players I stomp in games today, not much will change. So what has got me worked up like this? The way it was handled. This change will turn me from an actual logi into more of a tryhard logi, it will have the exact opposite effect than intended. And I highly doubt that I'm alone in this... And its the general principle of spending 6 weeks grinding for something that turns out to be something else a short while after due to a calculator battery failure at CCP, wihout being given the opportunity to make a new "informed choice" based on new data. I've said it before, I'll say it again, removing a high slot would most likely have done the trick. It reduces max tank by 87.5 HP and even further the difficulity of carrying damage mods. I believe a sort of fix that only affect the combat side and not the logi side of things is the way to go... Edit
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 519	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:20:00 - [62] - Quote Let go the proto nanohive, the ADV is good is enough. Proto Uplinks? Mmmm ok because the spawn reduction time is a very good thing. Proto nanite is very good. Since you'll be most of the time killing guys this is a very good setup for combat logi. Now the modules....Ditch the PG thingy if you can. Ditch the green stamina thingy and armor plate. Replace everything with. 3 shield regulators. Leave the proto CPU, you'll definitely need it. If you have enough CPU/PG, replace recharger with another shield extender. If you need more CPU I think you might wanna dumb down your proto equipment to ADV versions. Maybe that core grenade is too much? AUR contact grenades?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1235	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:31:00 - [63] - Quote Its the same thing I've said all along. There are probably a lot of changes between 1.4 - 2.0 that will be made to all of the classes. Its inevitable really. CCP has a vision for what they want each class to be, and I'm sure that the classes are not meeting the mark at all. Here's the problem for me. CCP keeps making changes (as they need to) and these changes affect a lot of people and can completely nullify choices that have been made. It makes making 'meaningful decisions' impossible. CCP should continue to make these changes, yes, definitely. But SP refund should be a matter of fact, period. I know it kills immersion/the point of the game. But until we can get to a point where the devs are happy with the game... we need to stop pointing and laughing at people that are adversely affected by these changes. No one will argue cal logis didn't need a change, but these kinds of changes are going to keep happening. What if 'pure logi' gallenetes get swapped into side arm only? Should the rest of us just point and laugh at the millions of SP that they put into the suit and light weaponry? Maybe gall logis needed the change to balance them out vs. scenario x, y, and z. And maybe a lot of people will be fine with the change... but a lot of people wont... and they will be royally ****** out of months of grinding. Its not right. Ignoring cal logi changes for a second... messing with people's skills and completely changing their playstyle when they have no means to adapt to the changes other than 'grind 6-10 weeks to catch back up, and buy some aurum gear... cause its a 'free' game after all! lulz!!!" is not a good way to treat your player base. And to answer the OP: I would drop down to the GEK probably on one fit and dropped some of the equipment on another fit. In PC the only thing you really need is proto uplinks. I'm working on a build using Imperial Uplinks, Ishukone Nanos, and basic REs. But it'll be using basic nades, and a GEK for sure. I'll defo be running assault next respec, these changes aren't over for sure. I can guarantee logis in general will be receiving further nerfs, the 5 hp/s will be the first to go I'm sure. Assaults will probably be seeing some buffs too. The combat potential of each class will be receiving significant changes I'm sure of it.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 331	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:32:00 - [64] - Quote King I to have stated to trade this highs and lows with assault and buff the cpu pg of assault a bit then that would have been best but then you got rambo the bumblebee who disagrees
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 212	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:39:00 - [65] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Its the same thing I've said all along. There are probably a lot of changes between 1.4 - 2.0 that will be made to all of the classes. Its inevitable really. CCP has a vision for what they want each class to be, and I'm sure that the classes are not meeting the mark at all. Here's the problem for me. CCP keeps making changes (as they need to) and these changes affect a lot of people and can completely nullify choices that have been made. It makes making 'meaningful decisions' impossible. CCP should continue to make these changes, yes, definitely. But SP refund should be a matter of fact, period. I know it kills immersion/the point of the game. But until we can get to a point where the devs are happy with the game... we need to stop pointing and laughing at people that are adversely affected by these changes. No one will argue cal logis didn't need a change, but these kinds of changes are going to keep happening. What if 'pure logi' gallenetes get swapped into side arm only? Should the rest of us just point and laugh at the millions of SP that they put into the suit and light weaponry? Maybe gall logis needed the change to balance them out vs. scenario x, y, and z. And maybe a lot of people will be fine with the change... but a lot of people wont... and they will be royally ****** out of months of grinding. Its not right. Ignoring cal logi changes for a second... messing with people's skills and completely changing their playstyle when they have no means to adapt to the changes other than 'grind 6-10 weeks to catch back up, and buy some aurum gear... cause its a 'free' game after all! lulz!!!" is not a good way to treat your player base. And to answer the OP: I would drop down to the GEK probably on one fit and dropped some of the equipment on another fit. In PC the only thing you really need is proto uplinks. I'm working on a build using Imperial Uplinks, Ishukone Nanos, and basic REs. But it'll be using basic nades, and a GEK for sure. I'll defo be running assault next respec, these changes aren't over for sure. I can guarantee logis in general will be receiving further nerfs, the 5 hp/s will be the first to go I'm sure. Assaults will probably be seeing some buffs too. The combat potential of each class will be receiving significant changes I'm sure of it. For this reason, and this reason only, I would be ok with a ONE-TIME ONLY, OPTIONAL respec, but only when ALL the suits are finally where they want them to be.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1236	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:44:00 - [66] - Quote Jaqen Morghalis wrote: For this reason, and this reason only, I would be ok with a ONE-TIME ONLY, OPTIONAL respec, but only when ALL the suits are finally where they want them to be. I don't think thats nearly enough, im not sure maybe people are willing to wait for close to a year for CCP to get this all balanced and in place. They just need to release 'we're going back into beta until 5/14/14" and then allow for regular respecs... I'm thinking like... put a button that lets you do it whenever you want. This game wasn't ready for full release, and the inevitable changes we'll be seeing over the next few months will be wasting people's SP left and right. Nobody wants to bother with a game that is constantly wasting your hard earned SP.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 329	Posted - 2013.07.24 20:10:00 - [67] - Quote Jaqen Morghalis wrote: [quote=ZDub 303] For this reason, and this reason only, I would be ok with a ONE-TIME ONLY, OPTIONAL respec, but only when ALL the suits are finally where they want them to be. My concern is similar to ZDubs in that at a minimum we are probably looking at November, approx date of next major content expansion, before we see all of the missing basic racial suits and probably a further 2 months of testing by the player base to determine whether the new suits are balanced. However, based on how long it took to introduce a single additional Amarr racial heavy variant this could easily change to greater than a year before all basic racial suits are introduced let alone tested for balance. Even ignoring factors like the PS4 appearing at the end of the year it is still too long to have so much SP tied up in a suit you do not want or enjoy. As others have said to those who are "complaining" or asking for "Respecs" if you do not like it leave. Anybody still playing in 6 months will have probably skilled into a new suit by then but in all probability most who fall into the "unhappy" category will have left rather than worry about the next suit they skill into being "balanced". If CCP is willing to consider Respecs, a big ask I know, then it is better that they start allowing them sooner rather than later while the consequences are minimal as we are still far away from combining eve and dusts economies and they can state that after this there will be no more Respecs as by this time all the basic stuff will have been introduced and balanced. They could make a merging of the economies into a major event and publicise it as the last Respec ever but until then allow them to ensure you hold onto a reasonable number of FPS players.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 619	Posted - 2013.07.24 20:55:00 - [68] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: Support Roles such as logistics in Dust=Cannon Fodder lmao that's what eve tards want you to be. If logi's were able to fix installations, vehicles CRU they wouldn't be in the front line fighting as much. Give logi's things to do on the battle field like MAG nope eve tards want you to be cannon fodder lol. This and I think a lot of those "support" logi's who run around want justify their existence, and to hide the fact that they actually have no gun game but want to be relevant.
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 261	Posted - 2013.07.24 20:59:00 - [69] - Quote CCP, learn to make a console game, thanks.
Xender17 Intrepidus XI EoN. 381	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:03:00 - [70] - Quote They'll die. They'll all die. And good reddens.

ISuperstar DIOS X. II Top Men. 184	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:09:00 - [71] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Well I'm a cal logi player. I'm not such a tryhard that I run a single nanohive and thats it. I've filled my equipment slots in every single fitting. My standard CB or "most competitive" fit for those occational hard pub games has been; - Proto Uplink - Proto Medkit - Proto nanohive 4 extenders and 1 recharger Duvolle AR Core nades Proto CPU uppgrade Proto PG uppgrade (Edit: not sure if proto or enh.) Proto green stamina thingy Basic armor plate This is a combat/support hybrid fitting. Not really a match against a well specced proto assault suit, but not so bad that I can't stay in and fight and do some damage. Keeping everything the same is not a viable option. I feel that I sort of have to fit at least one shield regulator, just to get the benefit of the new racial bonus, so my armor plate is thereby lost. And together with the racial bonus I lose 65+ 66 shields equals - 131 HP, taking my suit down from 752 HP down to roughly 615 HP. This change I don't have a problem with, although I'm not especially fond of the new racial bonus... Its the loss of CPU that worries me. I haven't run the numbers, but I highly doubt I can keep the same fitting as mentioned above. So where do I reduce the tier of my modules to find a fitting that works? I don't really see using 2 CPU upgrades as an alternative. Do I put on a GEK? - No, I'm not gonna come with a vanilla gek vs assaults running Duvolles with 2 damage mods... Do I get a smaller nade? - No, as a logi I don't have a sidearm and I'll keep the weapons I have... Will I reduce my tank or stamina? No way, not in a million years! So what is left? Yes its that proto equipment.... I might have to remove it or reduce it down a tier or two. So in effect; the patch that is supposed to make me more of a Logi and less of an assault player, will perhaps have the exact opposite effect, not a smart move IMO. All I read was " I'm not gunna be able to kill people as easily anymore so instead of removing my proto weapon or running lower end modules & nades like all the rest of the Logi Suits, I'll just remove my logi equipment since I never really was a legitimate logi anyway, QQ" Yeah, no sympathy here. Realllllly makes me hope you guys don't get a respec.
GET ATMESON NEW AGE EMPIRE 80	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:14:00 - [72] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Well I'm a cal logi player. I'm not such a tryhard that I run a single nanohive and thats it. I've filled my equipment slots in every single fitting. My standard CB or "most competitive" fit for those occational hard pub games has been; - Proto Uplink - Proto Medkit - Proto nanohive 4 extenders and 1 recharger Duvolle AR Core nades Proto CPU uppgrade Proto PG uppgrade (Edit: not sure if proto or enh.) Proto green stamina thingy Basic armor plate This is a combat/support hybrid fitting. Not really a match against a well specced proto assault suit, but not so bad that I can't stay in and fight and do some damage. Keeping everything the same is not a viable option. I feel that I sort of have to fit at least one shield regulator, just to get the benefit of the new racial bonus, so my armor plate is thereby lost. And together with the racial bonus I lose 65+ 66 shields equals - 131 HP, taking my suit down from 752 HP down to roughly 615 HP. This change I don't have a problem with, although I'm not especially fond of the new racial bonus... Its the loss of CPU that worries me. I haven't run the numbers, but I highly doubt I can keep the same fitting as mentioned above. So where do I reduce the tier of my modules to find a fitting that works? I don't really see using 2 CPU upgrades as an alternative. Do I put on a GEK? - No, I'm not gonna come with a vanilla gek vs assaults running Duvolles with 2 damage mods... Do I get a smaller nade? - No, as a logi I don't have a sidearm and I'll keep the weapons I have... Will I reduce my tank or stamina? No way, not in a million years! So what is left? Yes its that proto equipment.... I might have to remove it or reduce it down a tier or two. So in effect; the patch that is supposed to make me more of a Logi and less of an assault player, will perhaps have the exact opposite effect, not a smart move IMO. DISAGREE. Your suit is fine. Its OP from the start. I bet that the suit would get a little nerf and i wont that bet :) You shouldn't have 615 HP anyways. Your a logy not an assault. 400-500 shields sounds better.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 735	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:33:00 - [73] - Quote This or this
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 178	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:44:00 - [74] - Quote Gauder Berwyck wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Letting go of the Duvolle would pretty much equalize the CPU reduction and allow you to keep most of the rest as it is. Without damage mods you loose a few meters of range and about 6% in damage. Not exactly worth it if you're not going to focus on doing maximum damage. If you want to prioritize dmg and tank over logistics you can still do that. The changes just made it so that you can't get away with both combat and logistics capabilities at the same time. A focused logistics would ask "what do i have to change if i want my equipment stay as strong as possible" You are asking yourself "what do i have to change if i want my tank/gank stay as strong as possible" Before the changes everyone was like "proto ALL THE THINGS" and that was a big part of the issue. They should have removed a high slot from the CaLogi suit, and balanced CPU/PG because of that. It would have forced people to think about being a logistics even more, since shield AND damage tanking wouldn't be that viable at the same time anymore. Right now you can still shield and damage tank quite well. The ability to be a killer hasn't been dealt with. So what am I left with. Supporting the team or killing and staying alive? EVERY logistics player should ALWAYS go for killing and staying alive first. If you wanna argue this matter, feel free, I'm up for it. The simple answer is "you can't help anyone if you're dead." So yeah, I'm gonna keep my tanking and all that and sacrifice proto logistics equipment to be able to still fit my things. Because after all, I wouldn't be a good logi if I am bleeding out on the ground... you seem to think killing and staying alive are so entwined as to be either inseparable or the same thing. It is not so. I tank quite well with =/=660hp using a SMG no damage mods no biotics and both shield and armor regen.... but that is my Personal Playstyle. Don't be thinking there's only one way to do it, down that path lies mediocrity :P
Eriknaught Vader's Taco Shack 107	Posted - 2013.07.24 21:57:00 - [75] - Quote Just a heads up, I'm only going off the OP (a lot of pages to go through...) With that said my beloved Cal-Logi girlfriend is pretty excited to get her suit to be able to fit her role. She has been trained by me to use the suit as a Logi the moment she got access to the C-1. I told her that the suit is being made OP by players mis-using it & to expect a Nerf. Before she put points into it I advised her to go Minmatar Logi instead, but she wanted to stay true to her love for the Caldari State. Can't wait to see her adapt & overcome, no need for her to HTFU. She's a good Logi (crappy gun-game, her first FPS), but loves being a medic. That is all. Long live Dust514, o7. Eriknaught out. END TRANSMISSION. side note: she thinks what CCP should've done to balance the suit was make equipment mandatory. Empty equipment slot gives you an INVALID FITTING, thought that was an interesting idea...albeit a little late.
Son Down SamsClub 72	Posted - 2013.07.24 22:03:00 - [76] - Quote Eriknaught wrote: Just a heads up, I'm only going off the OP (a lot of pages to go through...) With that said my beloved Cal-Logi girlfriend is pretty excited to get her suit to be able to fit her role. She has been trained by me to use the suit as a Logi the moment she got access to the C-1. I told her that the suit is being made OP by players mis-using it & to expect a Nerf. Before she put points into it I advised her to go Minmatar Logi instead, but she wanted to stay true to her love for the Caldari State. Can't wait to see her adapt & overcome, no need for her to HTFU. She's a good Logi (crappy gun-game, her first FPS), but loves being a medic. That is all. Long live Dust514, o7. Eriknaught out. END TRANSMISSION. side note: she thinks what CCP should've done to balance the suit was make equipment mandatory. Empty equipment slot gives you an INVALID FITTING, thought that was an interesting idea...albeit a little late. Ahhh, so much great material to work with here. Eriknaught, what your ladyfriend is doing is what the LOGI suits were implemented for. A whole lot of people have reaaaallly crappy gun game, but still enjoy the game. This created a somewhat viable role for them. These people (your girlfriend included) will have no issue whatsoever with the changes being implemented by CCP. The loudmouths spewing b.s. on the forums, are dbags who have never had any intention of doing "logi stuff" with LOGI suits. They knew what they were doing, and now they're tip-toeing around the truth, and bawling like babes for a respec.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1244	Posted - 2013.07.24 22:15:00 - [77] - Quote Honestly, The more I look at the numbers.. What will Cal Logis do after 1.3? Well you have a bunch of skilled players in shield tanked suits with enough CPU and PG to go proto modules and proto weapon with a decent nanohive. and no other dropsuits to run, plus months away from being able to grind anything else... Their probably just gonna continue to pubstomp IB. I suspect we're gonna see a bunch of threads about a week after 1.3 drops about how the Cal Logi is still too OP.
Eriknaught Vader's Taco Shack 107	Posted - 2013.07.24 22:33:00 - [78] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Honestly, The more I look at the numbers.. What will Cal Logis do after 1.3? Well you have a bunch of skilled players in shield tanked suits with enough CPU and PG to go proto modules and proto weapon with a decent nanohive. and no other dropsuits to run, plus months away from being able to grind anything else... Their probably just gonna continue to pubstomp IB. I suspect we're gonna see a bunch of threads about a week after 1.3 drops about how the Cal Logi is still too OP. Probably so, I say buff ALL the other suits then.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1244	Posted - 2013.07.24 22:36:00 - [79] - Quote Eriknaught wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Honestly, The more I look at the numbers.. What will Cal Logis do after 1.3? Well you have a bunch of skilled players in shield tanked suits with enough CPU and PG to go proto modules and proto weapon with a decent nanohive. and no other dropsuits to run, plus months away from being able to grind anything else... Their probably just gonna continue to pubstomp IB. I suspect we're gonna see a bunch of threads about a week after 1.3 drops about how the Cal Logi is still too OP. Probably so, I say buff ALL the other suits then. I say fix armor tanking first... lol
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 421	Posted - 2013.07.24 22:57:00 - [80] - Quote cry me a river cal logis...

Washlee Pure Innocence. EoN. 227	Posted - 2013.07.24 23:00:00 - [81] - Quote 1. Forum Rage 2. Quit
Killar-12 Intrepidus XI EoN. 320	Posted - 2013.07.24 23:01:00 - [82] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Well I'm a cal logi player. I'm not such a tryhard that I run a single nanohive and thats it. I've filled my equipment slots in every single fitting. My standard CB or "most competitive" fit for those occational hard pub games has been; - Proto Uplink - Proto Medkit - Proto nanohive 4 extenders and 1 recharger Duvolle AR Core nades Proto CPU uppgrade Proto PG uppgrade (Edit: not sure if proto or enh.) Proto green stamina thingy Basic armor plate This is a combat/support hybrid fitting. Not really a match against a well specced proto assault suit, but not so bad that I can't stay in and fight and do some damage. Keeping everything the same is not a viable option. I feel that I sort of have to fit at least one shield regulator, just to get the benefit of the new racial bonus, so my armor plate is thereby lost. And together with the racial bonus I lose 65+ 66 shields equals - 131 HP, taking my suit down from 752 HP down to roughly 615 HP. This change I don't have a problem with, although I'm not especially fond of the new racial bonus... Its the loss of CPU that worries me. I haven't run the numbers, but I highly doubt I can keep the same fitting as mentioned above. So where do I reduce the tier of my modules to find a fitting that works? I don't really see using 2 CPU upgrades as an alternative. Do I put on a GEK? - No, I'm not gonna come with a vanilla gek vs assaults running Duvolles with 2 damage mods... Do I get a smaller nade? - No, as a logi I don't have a sidearm and I'll keep the weapons I have... Will I reduce my tank or stamina? No way, not in a million years! So what is left? Yes its that proto equipment.... I might have to remove it or reduce it down a tier or two. So in effect; the patch that is supposed to make me more of a Logi and less of an assault player, will perhaps have the exact opposite effect, not a smart move IMO. You still move fast when tanked so I don't care, didn't you say you quit?


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