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Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:54:00 - [1] - Quote Since Caldari Logistics is getting nerfed by 20 CPU. In order to have all the logistics suits aligned I must petition the removal of 20 base CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar Logisitcs dropsuits from standard, advanced and prototype levels. It is all for the sake of the game and balancing, so we must be fair if one dropsuit of the same class is getting hit we shall hit the others.
Taurion Bruni D3M3NT3D M1NDZ 141	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:08:00 - [2] - Quote But the other suits need it.. Try fitting 4 high 4 lows 4 equipment, a grenade, and a weapon, with 20 less cpu
Cosgar ParagonX 2905	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:12:00 - [3] - Quote You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 820	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:16:00 - [4] - Quote You have the most slots of all the suits, so if a removal of 20 CPU is necessary for "balance" then give all Logistic suits 1 extra high slot ;)
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 339	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:20:00 - [5] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Since Caldari Logistics is getting nerfed by 20 CPU. In order to have all the logistics suits aligned I must petition the removal of 20 base CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar Logisitcs dropsuits from standard, advanced and prototype levels. It is all for the sake of the game and balancing, so we must be fair if one dropsuit of the same class is getting hit we shall hit the others.
Cosgar ParagonX 2906	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:26:00 - [6] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: You have the most slots of all the suits, so if a removal of 20 CPU is necessary for "balance" then give all Logistic suits 1 extra high slot ;) In that case, give Minmatar logi an extra low. That way I can upgrade to a complex codebreaker.
Aquinarius Zoltanus 0uter.Heaven EoN. 190	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:05:00 - [7] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Since Caldari Logistics is getting nerfed by 20 CPU. In order to have all the logistics suits aligned I must petition the removal of 20 base CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar Logisitcs dropsuits from standard, advanced and prototype levels. It is all for the sake of the game and balancing, so we must be fair if one dropsuit of the same class is getting hit we shall hit the others. Omg, you clearly did absolutely no research and put no more than 10 seconds of thought into this post. Did you happen to realize that while every other proto logi suit has always 78 PG, the Amarr logi has had 66 PG? They are now giving it a bump of 3 PG, but that still leaves us 9 PG in the hole? (and 9 PG is arguably harder to come by than 20 CPU). Now I could be making a big stink and clamouring that all other logis should be dragged down to our level. But I'm not because I understand that CCP wants the suits to have differences, some have certain weaknesses and some certain strengths. They've decided Amarr should have less PG (thought they've slightly rebalanced it), and now they've decided that the Caldari should have less CPU. I suggest you adjust and get used to it.
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:24:00 - [8] - Quote Amarr Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (12) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 3 Sidearm Weapon: 1 Light Weapon: 1 Caldari Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 5 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 Gallente Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 5 Light Weapon: 1 Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 4 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 BL4CKST4R wrote: You have the most slots of all the suits, so if a removal of 20 CPU is necessary for "balance" then give all Logistic suits 1 extra high slot ;) False Cosgar wrote: You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. False Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Did you happen to realize that while every other proto logi suit has always 78 PG, the Amarr logi has had 66 PG? They are now giving it a bump of 3 PG, but that still leaves us 9 PG in the hole? (and 9 PG is arguably harder to come by than 20 CPU)... In regards to the Amarr's logistics dropsuit, if the other logistics dropsuits were given a sidearm and higher base dropsuit HP then we might be talking about Amarr's PG being buffed to match it's counterparts, until then the sidearm capabilities give them edge of such class in combat. After looking at the data CCP believes that a sidearm is worth 2 Slots and some additional HP Taurion Bruni wrote: But the other suits need it.. Try fitting 4 high 4 lows 4 equipment, a grenade, and a weapon, with 20 less cpu In comparison to other suits the Caldari Logistics may have an additional High-Slot, whereas the Gallente/Minmatar suits have an additional equipment slot and the Amarr suit is the only suit from logistics class to have a sidearm slot. Therefore based merely on the CPU from High-Slot to Equipment I can ensure you that using data from the Marketplace there is a minimum difference if not High-Slot Gear Complex Shield Extender: 54 CPU Complex Damage Modifier: 68 CPU Complex Shield Recharger: 90 CPU Complex Shield Energizer: 96 CPU Equipment Gear Duvolle Quantum Active Scanner: 46 CPU Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector: 48 CPU Boundless Remote Explosive: 63 CPU Imperial Flux Drop Uplink: 71 CPU Lai Dai Flux Repair Tool:75 CPU Allotek Nanohive: 88 CPU I am sorry to tell you but a CPU comparison looks pretty even once the real numbers are pulled into the picture
Aquinarius Zoltanus 0uter.Heaven EoN. 192	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:40:00 - [9] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: In regards to the Amarr's logistics dropsuit, if the other logistics dropsuits were given a sidearm and higher base dropsuit HP then we might be talking about Amarr's PG being buffed to match it's counterparts, until then the sidearm capabilities give them edge of such class in combat. After looking at the data CCP believes that a sidearm is worth 2 Slots and some additional HP First off, I appreciate the in depth edit and the in depth reply. But I gotta respectfully disagree with your line of thought here. You seem to want CCP to make all the dropsuits the same, when they are trying their best to differentiate them. So yes, I know that the addition of the sidearm is what costs the Amarr PG, and I'm fine with that, which is why I specced into them in the first place. But in that same line of thought, the Caldari's extremely high slot layout (9 total high/low slots, vs. 8 for Gallente and Minmatar and 6 for Amarr (soon to be 7)) comes at the cost of some CPU. They are adding a weakness to a dropsuit that previously didn't really have any compared to its peers.
Cosgar ParagonX 2916	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:25:00 - [10] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: False Seriously, you're creeping into first world problems territory. Either take a CPU hit or give up a low slot. Either way, you still have more survivability than any other logi.

Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:08:00 - [11] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mintqueer wrote: False Seriously, you're creeping into first world problems territory. Either take a CPU hit or give up a low slot. Either way, you still have more survivability than any other logi. It is a matter of choice either you picked to have an extra slot and lose an equipment. How about CCp does both a CPU hit and slot removal and also apply to the other logistics suits. Survivability depens depends a lot of factors, sometimes it depends on having more armor like gallente, having more shield like caldari, being more stable and have more mobility like minmatar. Logistics suits will always be differentiated even 2 dropsuits from the same class can different so I am just asking a logical approach by making everything more even for logistics suits based on SLOTS, CPU and PG. What's wrong with having the same amount of CPU ? If we can observe that the CPU and PG modules are relatively equal, if it is correct for the caldari logistics to get a reduction in their CPU then I must assume the same for Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar. It is claimed that a 20 CPU decrease won't be big deal and that it will help logistics suits make the builds incline into supporting other players, so why not point out the same for our fellow logistics family and help everybody have the same goal. :)
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition 33	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:30:00 - [12] - Quote If we go down, every.. single. other logies out there must come down in hell with us :)
DRDEEZE TWO POINTO Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 42	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:39:00 - [13] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Since Caldari Logistics is getting nerfed by 20 CPU. In order to have all the logistics suits aligned I must petition the removal of 20 base CPU to Amarr, Gallente loand Minmatar Logisitcs dropsuits from standard, advanced and prototype levels. It is all for the sake of the game and balancing, so we must be fair if one dropsuit of the same class is getting hit we shall hit the others. Edited Section ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Due to the fact some players were not capable of going through the market and verify some of their statements I must add rough data * Comparison of slots between Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar Amarr Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (12) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 3 Sidearm Weapon: 1 Light Weapon: 1 Caldari Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 5 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 Gallente Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 5 Light Weapon: 1 Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 4 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 * CPU comparison between frequently used High-Powered Modules vs frequently used Equipment Modules High-Slot Gear Complex Shield Extender: 54 CPU Complex Damage Modifier: 68 CPU Complex Shield Recharger: 90 CPU Complex Shield Energizer: 96 CPU Equipment Gear Duvolle Quantum Active Scanner: 46 CPU Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector: 48 CPU Boundless Remote Explosive: 63 CPu Imperial Flux Drop Uplink: 71 Lai Dai Flux Repair Tool:75 CPU Allotek Nanohive: 88 CPU Screw off cheese fart
DRDEEZE TWO POINTO Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 42	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:42:00 - [14] - Quote But still you can have shield which is over powered compared to armor which gallente armarr need to survive.
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:59:00 - [15] - Quote Nitrobeacon wrote: If we go down, every.. single. other logies out there must come down in hell with us :) The point is not to create a niche of logistics suit per se all the Amarr/Gallente/Minmatar suits will be the next hub or w/e. The idea is just creating a sense of equality between logis. Pretty much if the other logis must come down in order to have a whole class evenly balanced then we shall do it. DRDEEZE TWO POINTO wrote: But still you can have shield which is over powered compared to armor which gallente armarr need to survive. But still the extra equipment can compensate a difference of 72 complex shield extender by using the 4th equipment slot to spam armor healing Prototype Nanohives. Personally I would rather be able to spam 4 nanohives on the floor that will allow me to repair so much faster my armor plates while using a prototype rep tool on my team mates. It all depends how you use your slots.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN. 45	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:05:00 - [16] - Quote Removal of the racial bonus is enough of a nerf to Caldari Logi. The CPU reduction on top of that (amounting to 40 CPU at proto level, plus the skill bonuses) is unnecessary. Further, it kills balance at the advanced level. If I play my Caldari advanced suit, I now need 1 mil SP more than Gallente and 700k SP more than Minmatar in Core Upgrades/Electronics skills to fit the same gear as them with equitable tank. Not sure at all how that is "balancing" the Logi classes. Say NO to the CPU Nerf!
Cosgar ParagonX 2953	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:08:00 - [17] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Cosgar wrote: Mintqueer wrote: False Seriously, you're creeping into first world problems territory. Either take a CPU hit or give up a low slot. Either way, you still have more survivability than any other logi. It is a matter of choice either you picked to have an extra slot and lose an equipment. How about CCp does both a CPU hit and slot removal and also apply to the other logistics suits. Survivability depens depends a lot of factors, sometimes it depends on having more armor like gallente, having more shield like caldari, being more stable and have more mobility like minmatar. Logistics suits will always be differentiated even 2 dropsuits from the same class can different so I am just asking a logical approach by making everything more even for logistics suits based on SLOTS, CPU and PG. What's wrong with having the same amount of CPU ? If we can observe that the CPU and PG modules are relatively equal, if it is correct for the caldari logistics to get a reduction in their CPU then I must assume the same for Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar. It is claimed that a 20 CPU decrease won't be big deal and that it will help logistics suits make the builds incline into supporting other players, so why not point out the same for our fellow logistics family and help everybody have the same goal. :) Your suit has 5 highs and 4 lows. If you can't somehow find a way to make that work, maybe you need to uninstall Dust.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 82	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:59:00 - [18] - Quote Question: What did Amarr logisuit do to deserve a nerf as it rises to decent with the small buffs that it's getting? Funny note: I, as an Amarr logi, apparently need the most SP invested to wield stuff that is obvious to other logis :D
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:27:00 - [19] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Since Caldari Logistics is getting nerfed by 20 CPU. In order to have all the logistics suits aligned I must petition the removal of 20 base CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar Logisitcs dropsuits from standard, advanced and prototype levels. It is all for the sake of the game and balancing, so we must be fair if one dropsuit of the same class is getting hit we shall hit the others. This is what happens when people ran to the FoTM (flavor of the month) gear/weapons. I find it funny because the people using Caldari Logistics were the same people saying no to re-specs but now they're the ones asking for one. So they did take 20 CPU away, it was needed since: 1.) shield tanking was easier to do on the logistics class instead of the Caldari Assault 2.) Caldari Logistics completely outdid the Assault variant in every way possible 3.) People were not using it for the true role 4.) FoTM, just like the TAC Rifles. 5.) You have 5 high and 4 low use a freaking cpu upgrade module So no the other logistics suits do not need a cpu nerf.
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:53:00 - [20] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Your suit has 5 highs and 4 lows. If you can't somehow find a way to make that work, maybe you need to uninstall Dust. Dj grammer wrote: 5.) You have 5 high and 4 low use a freaking cpu upgrade module So no the other logistics suits do not need a cpu nerf. We already considered the CPU usage of High-Power and Equipment modules so we can concur that a difference in CPU usage is not a "factor", if we use the same logic from "quoted Text #2" then a decrease of 20 CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minamatar logistics is viable given the following path of thought. The Gallente logistics dropsuit has 5 Low-Powered Slots and Minmatar has 4 Low-Powered Slots which are more than enough slots to fit a CPU chip, now if we bring Amarr to the picture we must take into consideration that having less slots also means less CPU usage which alleviates the CPU pressure of the dropsuit.

Cosgar ParagonX 3012	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:21:00 - [21] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Cosgar wrote: Your suit has 5 highs and 4 lows. If you can't somehow find a way to make that work, maybe you need to uninstall Dust. Dj grammer wrote: 5.) You have 5 high and 4 low use a freaking cpu upgrade module So no the other logistics suits do not need a cpu nerf. We already considered the CPU usage of High-Power and Equipment modules so we can concur that a difference in CPU usage is not a "factor", if we use the same logic from "quoted Text #2" then a decrease of 20 CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minamatar logistics is viable given the following path of thought. The Gallente logistics dropsuit has 5 Low-Powered Slots and Minmatar has 4 Low-Powered Slots which are more than enough slots to fit a CPU chip, now if we bring Amarr to the picture we must take into consideration that having less slots also means less CPU usage which alleviates the CPU pressure of the dropsuit. Yet you're the only suit with 9 slots. Seriously, either give up a low slot or take the CPU hit. Hell, the CPU hit is better since you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU.
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:51:00 - [22] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Yet you're the only suit with 9 slots. Seriously, either give up a low slot or take the CPU hit. Hell, the CPU hit is better since you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU. Hell, the CPU hit is better since Minmatar has the same amount of slots (4 Low-Powered Slots) and Gallente has 5 Low-Powered Slots, you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU Personally, I would be willing to have CCP taking 1 High-Power Slot and reduce base CPU by 20, only if the Minmatar and Gallente dropsuits had an equipment slot removed and base CPU reduced by 20 Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente have the same amount of total slots which is 14. It was merely a matter of choice, if a player considered the High-Powered slot to have a greater value he/she would have picked Caldari, if it was the case of Low-Powered slot he/she would have picked Gallente, if it was the Sidearm he/she would have picked Amarr and he/she wanted a balanced amount of slots it would have been Minmatar. Balancing the rest of the logistics dropsuits by reducing the base CPU by the same amount would bring equality in terms of dropsuits, make logi users focus on supporting. In order to be able to car prototype level equipment a player may need to use a standard weapon but what's wrong with it if our goal is to support. :)
Cosgar ParagonX 3015	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:59:00 - [23] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Cosgar wrote: Yet you're the only suit with 9 slots. Seriously, either give up a low slot or take the CPU hit. Hell, the CPU hit is better since you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU. Hell, the CPU hit is better since Minmatar has the same amount of slots (4 Low-Powered Slots) and Gallente has 5 Low-Powered Slots, you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU Personally, I would be willing to have CCP taking 1 High-Power Slot and reduce base CPU by 20, only if the Minmatar and Gallente dropsuits had an equipment slot removed and base CPU reduced by 20 Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente have the same amount of total slots which is 14. It was merely a matter of choice, if a player considered the High-Powered slot to have a greater value he/she would have picked Caldari, if it was the case of Low-Powered slot he/she would have picked Gallente, if it was the Sidearm he/she would have picked Amarr and he/she wanted a balanced amount of slots it would have been Minmatar. Balancing the rest of the logistics dropsuits by reducing the base CPU by the same amount would bring equality in terms of dropsuits, make logi users focus on supporting. In order to be able to car prototype level equipment a player may need to use a standard weapon but what's wrong with it if our goal is to support. :) Whatever, there's a reason why the CaLogi was the only suit got changed, the Amarr got a buff and the Minmatar/Gallente got ignored. Why not take your QQ over to a laser topic, I hear people have been able to get kills.
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:14:00 - [24] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Whatever, there's a reason why the CaLogi was the only suit got changed, the Amarr got a buff and the Minmatar/Gallente got ignored. Why not take your QQ over to a laser topic, I hear people have been able to get kills. Don't worry and keep calm 1 step at a time, today Caldari Logistics and tomorrow the rest of the logistics suits. I never used a laser but it is funny how your attempts to develop a coherent argument have failed (I have never used a laser rifle but I trust CCP's judgement :3) Back on topic... the Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar logistics dropsuits need to be aligned with its Caldari counterpart if the goal of CCP is to have them accomplish a support role in the battlefield.
Cosgar ParagonX 3019	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:21:00 - [25] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Cosgar wrote: Whatever, there's a reason why the CaLogi was the only suit got changed, the Amarr got a buff and the Minmatar/Gallente got ignored. Why not take your QQ over to a laser topic, I hear people have been able to get kills. Don't worry and keep calm 1 step at a time, today Caldari Logistics and tomorrow the rest of the logistics suits. I never used a laser but it is funny how your attempts to develop a coherent argument have failed (I have never used a laser rifle but I trust CCP's judgement :3) Back on topic... the Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar logistics dropsuits need to be aligned with its Caldari counterpart if the goal of CCP is to have them accomplish a support role in the battlefield. You got it reversed, the Caldari was the one that needed to be aligned to the Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar suits. Face it you were the odd man out, and you're still the odd man out. If you lost a low on top of the CPU nerf, you might have some sympathy. I'm calling it quits though because I said my points and tired of repeating myself. I hope you have some luck in coping with the issue of your underpowered 5/4 module slot allocation since it's so hard to make a good fit.
R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 302	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:23:00 - [26] - Quote The Caldari logi was CLEARLY OP...so now that they brought it in line with other logis you want to nerf them to make sure the Caldari one is OP (aka king of the hill) again? Yeah...let's not do that!
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:33:00 - [27] - Quote R'adeh Hunt wrote: The Caldari logi was CLEARLY OP...so now that they brought it in line with other logis you want to nerf them to make sure the Caldari one is OP (aka king of the hill) again? Yeah...let's not do that! Yes it was powerful but regardless of its combat capabilities the total amount of CPU used by Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar is relatively the same, it is understadable that other logistics dropsuits want to keep the Light-Weapon capabilities but this must not be allowed to happen. If a decrease of 20 CPU was applied to the whole class, a choice may have to be made of either having a prototype weapon or having prototype equipment and real logi will agree that support role is far more important.
R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 303	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:40:00 - [28] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: R'adeh Hunt wrote: The Caldari logi was CLEARLY OP...so now that they brought it in line with other logis you want to nerf them to make sure the Caldari one is OP (aka king of the hill) again? Yeah...let's not do that! Yes it was powerful but regardless of its combat capabilities the total amount of CPU used by Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar is relatively the same, it is understadable that other logistics dropsuits want to keep the Light-Weapon capabilities but this must not be allowed to happen. If a decrease of 20 CPU was applied to the whole class, a choice may have to be made of either having a prototype weapon or having prototype equipment and real logi will agree that support role is far more important. The difference is warranted because of slot layouts. Caldari focus on shield tanking, so they can afford to sacrifice a low slot...especially since they already have more slots than the rest. Minmatar can't do it as easily because if they want a comparable tank, they need to both shield and armor tank. Gallente NEED to have higher CPU because they're armor tanking and really can't sacrifice any low slots for CPU mods...and neither can Amarr. A choice of proto equipment already has to be made, because other than Gallente none of them can realistically fit all proto. Fit a damn CPU mod on your Caldari suit, you have an extra slot to do just that....and your tank will still be comparable to the others. If you remove CPU from the other suits, you end up with the Caldari suit still having the highest HP. In short: To demand a nerf to the other suits is a DUMB idea.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:43:00 - [29] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Cosgar wrote: Your suit has 5 highs and 4 lows. If you can't somehow find a way to make that work, maybe you need to uninstall Dust. Dj grammer wrote: 5.) You have 5 high and 4 low use a freaking cpu upgrade module So no the other logistics suits do not need a cpu nerf. We already considered the CPU usage of High-Power and Equipment modules so we can concur that a difference in CPU usage is not a "factor", if we use the same logic from "quoted Text #2" then a decrease of 20 CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minamatar logistics is viable given the following path of thought. The Gallente logistics dropsuit has 5 Low-Powered Slots and Minmatar has 4 Low-Powered Slots which are more than enough slots to fit a CPU chip, now if we bring Amarr to the picture we must take into consideration that having less slots also means less CPU usage which alleviates the CPU pressure of the dropsuit. They have more PG than all of the other logistics suits now (all gained a plus 3 PG base). The reason Amarr had 3 high and 3 low is due to the fact that they're the only logistics suit in the game with a side-arm slot (which is now gained at standard level). Name me any other logistics suit that has that slot. Also (saying this like a broken record) your caldari suit has 5 high and 4 low Also if you further read the article, the Amarr prototype logistics suit gained an additional low slot at pro tier and their third equipment slot at advance tier. So the Amarr logistics prototype suit now has 3 high and 4 low while still maintaining 390 CPU and 66 PG both are base values. Also if you threw in core upgrades with the electronics and engineering upgrades you can have a max of 512 CPU and 87 PG before putting on any modules.
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:04:00 - [30] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: They have more PG than all of the other logistics suits now (all gained a plus 3 PG base). The reason Amarr had 3 high and 3 low is due to the fact that they're the only logistics suit in the game with a side-arm slot (which is now gained at standard level). Name me any other logistics suit that has that slot. Also (saying this like a broken record) your caldari suit has 5 high and 4 low Also if you further read the article, the Amarr prototype logistics suit gained an additional low slot at pro tier and their third equipment slot at advance tier. So the Amarr logistics prototype suit now has 3 high and 4 low while still maintaining 390 CPU and 66 PG both are base values. Also if you threw in core upgrades with the electronics and engineering upgrades you can have a max of 512 CPU and 87 PG before putting on any modules. I didn't wanted to bring that up yet but ok... every logistics dropsuit will have 4+ Low-Powered modules which is sufficient to fit in a CPU module, therefore if it is correct for a dropsuit that has literally the same amount of CPU usage if compared to its counterparts to get a deduction of 20 CPU, then it is correct for the rest of the class dropsuit to receive the same treatment that caldari logistics are receiving.

R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 303	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:08:00 - [31] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Dj grammer wrote: They have more PG than all of the other logistics suits now (all gained a plus 3 PG base). The reason Amarr had 3 high and 3 low is due to the fact that they're the only logistics suit in the game with a side-arm slot (which is now gained at standard level). Name me any other logistics suit that has that slot. Also (saying this like a broken record) your caldari suit has 5 high and 4 low Also if you further read the article, the Amarr prototype logistics suit gained an additional low slot at pro tier and their third equipment slot at advance tier. So the Amarr logistics prototype suit now has 3 high and 4 low while still maintaining 390 CPU and 66 PG both are base values. Also if you threw in core upgrades with the electronics and engineering upgrades you can have a max of 512 CPU and 87 PG before putting on any modules. I didn't wanted to bring that up yet but ok... every logistics dropsuit will have 4+ Low-Powered modules which is sufficient to fit in a CPU module, therefore if it is correct for a dropsuit that has literally the same amount of CPU usage if compared to its counterparts to get a deduction of 20 CPU, then it is correct for the rest of the class dropsuit to receive the same treatment that caldari logistics are receiving. NO! Because unlike Caldari, other races actually need those slots to get a comparable tank to Caldari logis
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:21:00 - [32] - Quote R'adeh Hunt wrote: NO! Because unlike Caldari, other races actually need those slots to get a comparable tank to Caldari logis Caldari can shield tank, but it requires a lot of CPU and SP intensive modules to make it worth Minmatar can speed tank, which is very viable with the aim mechanics and strafing of the base dropsuit Gallente can armor tank and armor repair nanohives are your friend repairing +40 hp faster than you can speak. Amarr can behave pretty much like an assault suit with its sidearm gaining that competitive edge over the enemy
R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 303	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:34:00 - [33] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: R'adeh Hunt wrote: NO! Because unlike Caldari, other races actually need those slots to get a comparable tank to Caldari logis Caldari can shield tank, but it requires a lot of CPU and SP intensive modules to make it worth Minmatar can speed tank, which is very viable with the aim mechanics and strafing of the base dropsuit Gallente can armor tank and armor repair nanohives are your friend repairing +40 hp faster than you can speak. Amarr can behave pretty much like an assault suit with its sidearm gaining that competitive edge over the enemy You have an extra slot to cope with shield tanking CPU needs. A Minmatar logi can't really speed tank unless he sacrifices low slots for that purpose, which means he can't fit a CPU upgrade needed to get a proper shield tank going. And even IF he fits suits like that, his tank would STILL be weaker than that of Caldari. Gallente can armor tank, but in return can't afford to fit CPU upgrades...which is why they have more CPU. Amarr logis are still significantly weaker than their assault counterparts. So no, they aren't "pretty much like an assault suit". Your proposed nerf to other logi suits would once again make the Caldari suit the king of the hill...so no, a nerf like that would be stupid.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN. 45	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:38:00 - [34] - Quote Seems like a lot of the responses here are just use a CPU upgrade at proto level. What about advanced or standard level, where Cal Logis also have to dual tank? How is the CPU nerf justified at lower levels?
R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 303	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:44:00 - [35] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Seems like a lot of the responses here are just use a CPU upgrade at proto level. What about advanced or standard level, where Cal Logis also have to dual tank? How is the CPU nerf justified at lower levels? It's justified because guess what, the other race suits suffer from the same drawbacks that count for them at proto level
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.07.23 05:07:00 - [36] - Quote Let us mark out everything on a caldari logistics suit shall we: 1.) 5 high slots 4 low slots, if you lose 20 CPU use a module to fix it. The 20 CPU shouldn't even be that big of a hit if you spec into skills that lower CPU/PG of certain weapons and equipment. 2.) Even with the 20 CPU gone, you still have the highest EHP and the fastest shield depleted/recharge delay compared to other logistics suits. This means that you can just jump around a corner and rep your shields back in under 4 seconds 3.) You have the best combination of high and low slots to do dual tanking. Minmatar can do that but would have to give up a lot to do so. Gallente can do nothing but armor tank and Amarr doesn't have the option to dual tank 4.) At advance tier and standard tier, you still outplay the majority of logistics suits. I will agree that the 20 CPU loss is not needed at standard tier. When I step back and look at the changes taking place, I would say it an okay change. the 20 CPU gone at standard level isn't needed but at advance and prototype levels it is needed. But if other suits were to obtain the 20 CPU loss then Caldari would be the FoTM/ungod like logistics suit again with the 5 high and 4 low at prototype level. In other words, applying the 20 CPU loss to all of the logistics suits would put us right back at the problem people had with Caldari Logistics suits. So no to applying the 20 CPU loss to other logistics suits
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 10	Posted - 2013.07.23 05:12:00 - [37] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mintqueer wrote: Cosgar wrote: Your suit has 5 highs and 4 lows. If you can't somehow find a way to make that work, maybe you need to uninstall Dust. Dj grammer wrote: 5.) You have 5 high and 4 low use a freaking cpu upgrade module So no the other logistics suits do not need a cpu nerf. We already considered the CPU usage of High-Power and Equipment modules so we can concur that a difference in CPU usage is not a "factor", if we use the same logic from "quoted Text #2" then a decrease of 20 CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minamatar logistics is viable given the following path of thought. The Gallente logistics dropsuit has 5 Low-Powered Slots and Minmatar has 4 Low-Powered Slots which are more than enough slots to fit a CPU chip, now if we bring Amarr to the picture we must take into consideration that having less slots also means less CPU usage which alleviates the CPU pressure of the dropsuit. Yet you're the only suit with 9 slots. Seriously, either give up a low slot or take the CPU hit. Hell, the CPU hit is better since you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU. Dude the suit is a 5 4 3, 5 high 4 low 3 equip, that's 12 total, no more or less than gal or min, problem is amarr needed a buff, but you saying 9 slots is not honest count equipment as well please.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 10	Posted - 2013.07.23 05:16:00 - [38] - Quote Cosgar wrote: You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me .
Justin Tymes Raymond James Corp 241	Posted - 2013.07.23 05:20:00 - [39] - Quote This is stupid, Gallente doesn't need any more nerfs. The ability to use all proto EQ instead of 3/4 proto EQ is the only thing Gallente has, which isn't much of an advantage at all, and you want to take that away too?
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.07.23 06:02:00 - [40] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Cosgar wrote: You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me . in the end of the day Minmatar, galllente and Caldari do have 12 slots total. However with Amarr now gaining an additional low slot they now have 13 slots total. So in the end this is good. +1

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 11	Posted - 2013.07.23 08:05:00 - [41] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Cosgar wrote: You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me . in the end of the day Minmatar, galllente and Caldari do have 12 slots total. However with Amarr now gaining an additional low slot they now have 13 slots total. So in the end this is good. +1 Agreed, Amarr needed some love, leave us Cals alone and if I want to use my suit to jack off a tank that should be my business and not CCP trying to define what my role should be as a player.
Cosgar ParagonX 3059	Posted - 2013.07.23 08:07:00 - [42] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Cosgar wrote: You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me . Module slots, you know the things that give you access to more modules...
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 201	Posted - 2013.07.23 08:21:00 - [43] - Quote It's NERF, or NOTHING!
Valmar Shadereaver Ninth Legion Freelance 25	Posted - 2013.07.23 10:49:00 - [44] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Amarr Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (12) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 3 Sidearm Weapon: 1 Light Weapon: 1 Caldari Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 5 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 Gallente Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 5 Light Weapon: 1 Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 4 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 BL4CKST4R wrote: You have the most slots of all the suits, so if a removal of 20 CPU is necessary for "balance" then give all Logistic suits 1 extra high slot ;) False Cosgar wrote: You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. False Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Did you happen to realize that while every other proto logi suit has always 78 PG, the Amarr logi has had 66 PG? They are now giving it a bump of 3 PG, but that still leaves us 9 PG in the hole? (and 9 PG is arguably harder to come by than 20 CPU)... In regards to the Amarr's logistics dropsuit, if the other logistics dropsuits were given a sidearm and higher base dropsuit HP then we might be talking about Amarr's PG being buffed to match it's counterparts, until then the sidearm capabilities give them edge of such class in combat. After looking at the data CCP believes that a sidearm is worth 2 Slots and some additional HP Taurion Bruni wrote: But the other suits need it.. Try fitting 4 high 4 lows 4 equipment, a grenade, and a weapon, with 20 less cpu In comparison to other suits the Caldari Logistics may have an additional High-Slot, whereas the Gallente/Minmatar suits have an additional equipment slot and the Amarr suit is the only suit from logistics class to have a sidearm slot. Therefore based merely on the CPU from High-Slot to Equipment I can ensure you that using data from the Marketplace there is a minimum difference if not High-Slot Gear Complex Shield Extender: 54 CPU Complex Damage Modifier: 68 CPU Complex Shield Recharger: 90 CPU Complex Shield Energizer: 96 CPU Equipment Gear Duvolle Quantum Active Scanner: 46 CPU Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector: 48 CPU Boundless Remote Explosive: 63 CPU Imperial Flux Drop Uplink: 71 CPU Lai Dai Flux Repair Tool:75 CPU Allotek Nanohive: 88 CPU i dont see why you added the Complex Damage Modifier in your cpu list your a logi meaning a medic you have no need for damage modifier's if you do put one in and want more cpu cause it require's a lot then use a cpu enchancer mod dont wanne lose a low power slot to one then dont waste a slot for more damage you have no need for damage your role is meanth to be suportive repair/equipment not assaulth so either go for asaulth suit's and stop whining or use the suit wat it is made for
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN. 45	Posted - 2013.07.23 11:48:00 - [45] - Quote Just to clarify and as confirmed by CCP Logibro, the CPU nerf is 20 at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto. Looks like some of you guys will need to get those calculators and spreadsheets out again. CCP Logibro wrote: Just a small update. It seems we were missing the new CPU and PG values for all the tiers of the Caldari and Amarr Logistics suits. The Dev Blog now has all the values, and I've posted them below Bumped up Amarr Logistics PG: 3 at STD (up to 36 from 33), 4 at ADV (up to 50 from 46) and 6 at PRO (up to 72 from 66) Lower Caldari Logistics CPU: 20 at STD (down to 175 from 195), 28 at ADV (down to 245 from 273) and 40 at PRO (down to 350 from 390)
Mintqueer Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.07.23 13:40:00 - [46] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Just to clarify and as confirmed by CCP Logibro, the CPU nerf is 20 at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto. Looks like some of you guys will need to get those calculators and spreadsheets out again. CCP Logibro wrote: Just a small update. It seems we were missing the new CPU and PG values for all the tiers of the Caldari and Amarr Logistics suits. The Dev Blog now has all the values, and I've posted them below Bumped up Amarr Logistics PG: 3 at STD (up to 36 from 33), 4 at ADV (up to 50 from 46) and 6 at PRO (up to 72 from 66) Lower Caldari Logistics CPU: 20 at STD (down to 175 from 195), 28 at ADV (down to 245 from 273) and 40 at PRO (down to 350 from 390) I have just updated the OP and now is better, I will continue to improve the OP anytime. Let the Caldari Logistics mark the path to the entire logistics class
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 839	Posted - 2013.07.23 15:23:00 - [47] - Quote The CPU nerf just means you cannot stack a ton of shield modules without making a sacrifice elsewhere, removing CPU from other Logi suits means that we have to get something elsewhere to compensate, for example your sacrifice is 1 side arm 60 HP and .3 m/s, for +2 equipment, +1 high, and +1 low. What this means is that your suit still has higher survivability and still has Logi abilities than a Assault suit, but since you now have -20 CPU it is up to you to make the choice of survival and low equipment or Good equipment and low survival, no other logistics has this choice since most of us have pretty low survival since we only get 1 extra slot to buff our survival.
NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.07.23 15:34:00 - [48] - Quote Like I said in another thread somewhere, due to the general OP ability of shield tanking AND the racial bonus AND the fact there was no reason to go assault. Alot of players went with the caldari logi. Something needed to change with it, it is just too strong of a suit. it still has the best slot layout because you have 4 low slots at proto with makes the cpu nerf almost laughable as you can just slap on a cpu enhancer. and do not tell me you can't because your low slots aren't recquired in order for you to tank. As is the case with the gallente suit. This nerf is done to bring the caldari suit in line with the others. The other suits are fine, yeah i can fit all proto equipment on my gallente suit and a proto weapon, but can i fully tank it properly after doing that, nope. and thats with leaving all of my highslots empty. And lets be honest, this is being done mainly because of the INSANE HP a proto caldari logi can get just off of shields, its like 900 EHP. which is more than some heavies. And out tanking a tank, as a support character is a bit odd to me. Also, Why nerf the other suits? literally why? how do they have an overbearing advantage? What qualifies them to be on the nerf train? Other than just because you say so and you think its balanced. the caldari logi was unbalanced to begin with and this fixes that problem. Would you rather lose 20 CPU? Or a High slot? And yes it would come down to a high slot, because removing a low would not fix the masssive shield tank problem.
Gooseonian Ducksalot XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 0	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:48:00 - [49] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: [quote=Sana Rayya]Just to clarify and as confirmed by CCP Logibro, the CPU nerf is 20 at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto. Looks like some of you guys will need to get those calculators and spreadsheets out again. With a 40 CPU hit at the proto the CPU with level 5 core and electronics drops to 465 from 518. That takes away a complex shield extender right there to maintain the same support equipment. Plus the fact that with the skill bonus change to shield regulators, the Caldari suit gets 18 less HP per complex shield extender. This a pretty huge nerf for the people (like me) that actually use the suit in a support role. If the side arm slot is a distinctive role trait for the Amar suit, then with this nerf what makes the Caldari suit distinctive? Yeah it has the most slots (if you don't include the equipment slots, if you do the Minmatar and Gallente suits have the same), but with the nerf in order me to maintain the same level of support I will have to use up one of my lows for CPU upgrade, which takes away advantage of having the most slots. My question is, will the Caldari suit get some CPU back when CCP figures out how to add bonus to equipment, or will it remain nerfed? If it remains nerfed will the other logi suits follow with a CPU hit?
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:33:00 - [50] - Quote We will have to see what happens. Removing the CPU won't really make a difference to assault logis as you can still fit all complex shield extenders and a proto weapon easily. When I first read it 20 CPU wasn't that big of a deal, but now that it's different between the tiers it may be a problem for actual logistics players. I can't run all proto gear on my minmatar proto suit with my passive upgrades at level 5(I can run 7 proto items, 2 advanced, 4 basic and 1 militia). The militia item in my lows isn't really necessary so I could replace it with a cpu module but I really shouldn't need to as I've already made sacrifices. The caldari logi shouldn't lost that much cpu if any(changing the bonus and shield recharge should have been enough).

Valmar Shadereaver Ninth Legion Freelance 25	Posted - 2013.07.24 08:18:00 - [51] - Quote 40cpu los on the proto might be a bit harsh 30 wuild have been plenty to stil have suportive and some defensive capabilety's even im not using all of my galante slot's cause i stil need several skill's 3 in electronic's and 2 in pg and using one pg upgrade on a low power slot well my own faulth focusing on proto equip slot item's stil i surive long enof to be of help to my squad drop enof equip to help win the game or anoy the razbery's when we cant win cause of bluebery mcc camping sissy's -.-


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