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R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
303
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Posted - 2013.07.22 20:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mintqueer wrote:Dj grammer wrote:
They have more PG than all of the other logistics suits now (all gained a plus 3 PG base). The reason Amarr had 3 high and 3 low is due to the fact that they're the only logistics suit in the game with a side-arm slot (which is now gained at standard level). Name me any other logistics suit that has that slot. Also (saying this like a broken record) your caldari suit has 5 high and 4 low
Also if you further read the article, the Amarr prototype logistics suit gained an additional low slot at pro tier and their third equipment slot at advance tier. So the Amarr logistics prototype suit now has 3 high and 4 low while still maintaining 390 CPU and 66 PG both are base values. Also if you threw in core upgrades with the electronics and engineering upgrades you can have a max of 512 CPU and 87 PG before putting on any modules.
I didn't wanted to bring that up yet but ok... every logistics dropsuit will have 4+ Low-Powered modules which is sufficient to fit in a CPU module, therefore if it is correct for a dropsuit that has literally the same amount of CPU usage if compared to its counterparts to get a deduction of 20 CPU, then it is correct for the rest of the class dropsuit to receive the same treatment that caldari logistics are receiving.
NO! Because unlike Caldari, other races actually need those slots to get a comparable tank to Caldari logis  |
Mintqueer
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2013.07.22 20:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:NO! Because unlike Caldari, other races actually need those slots to get a comparable tank to Caldari logis
Caldari can shield tank, but it requires a lot of CPU and SP intensive modules to make it worth
Minmatar can speed tank, which is very viable with the aim mechanics and strafing of the base dropsuit
Gallente can armor tank and armor repair nanohives are your friend repairing +40 hp faster than you can speak.
Amarr can behave pretty much like an assault suit with its sidearm gaining that competitive edge over the enemy |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
303
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 20:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mintqueer wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:NO! Because unlike Caldari, other races actually need those slots to get a comparable tank to Caldari logis Caldari can shield tank, but it requires a lot of CPU and SP intensive modules to make it worth Minmatar can speed tank, which is very viable with the aim mechanics and strafing of the base dropsuit Gallente can armor tank and armor repair nanohives are your friend repairing +40 hp faster than you can speak. Amarr can behave pretty much like an assault suit with its sidearm gaining that competitive edge over the enemy
You have an extra slot to cope with shield tanking CPU needs.
A Minmatar logi can't really speed tank unless he sacrifices low slots for that purpose, which means he can't fit a CPU upgrade needed to get a proper shield tank going. And even IF he fits suits like that, his tank would STILL be weaker than that of Caldari.
Gallente can armor tank, but in return can't afford to fit CPU upgrades...which is why they have more CPU.
Amarr logis are still significantly weaker than their assault counterparts. So no, they aren't "pretty much like an assault suit".
Your proposed nerf to other logi suits would once again make the Caldari suit the king of the hill...so no, a nerf like that would be stupid. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 20:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Seems like a lot of the responses here are just use a CPU upgrade at proto level.
What about advanced or standard level, where Cal Logis also have to dual tank? How is the CPU nerf justified at lower levels? |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
303
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 20:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Seems like a lot of the responses here are just use a CPU upgrade at proto level.
What about advanced or standard level, where Cal Logis also have to dual tank? How is the CPU nerf justified at lower levels?
It's justified because guess what, the other race suits suffer from the same drawbacks that count for them at proto level |
Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
19
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Posted - 2013.07.23 05:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Let us mark out everything on a caldari logistics suit shall we:
1.) 5 high slots 4 low slots, if you lose 20 CPU use a module to fix it. The 20 CPU shouldn't even be that big of a hit if you spec into skills that lower CPU/PG of certain weapons and equipment.
2.) Even with the 20 CPU gone, you still have the highest EHP and the fastest shield depleted/recharge delay compared to other logistics suits. This means that you can just jump around a corner and rep your shields back in under 4 seconds
3.) You have the best combination of high and low slots to do dual tanking. Minmatar can do that but would have to give up a lot to do so. Gallente can do nothing but armor tank and Amarr doesn't have the option to dual tank
4.) At advance tier and standard tier, you still outplay the majority of logistics suits. I will agree that the 20 CPU loss is not needed at standard tier.
When I step back and look at the changes taking place, I would say it an okay change. the 20 CPU gone at standard level isn't needed but at advance and prototype levels it is needed. But if other suits were to obtain the 20 CPU loss then Caldari would be the FoTM/ungod like logistics suit again with the 5 high and 4 low at prototype level. In other words, applying the 20 CPU loss to all of the logistics suits would put us right back at the problem people had with Caldari Logistics suits.
So no to applying the 20 CPU loss to other logistics suits |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
TYRANNY of EVIL MEN
10
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Posted - 2013.07.23 05:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Mintqueer wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Your suit has 5 highs and 4 lows. If you can't somehow find a way to make that work, maybe you need to uninstall Dust.
Dj grammer wrote:
5.) You have 5 high and 4 low use a freaking cpu upgrade module
So no the other logistics suits do not need a cpu nerf.
We already considered the CPU usage of High-Power and Equipment modules so we can concur that a difference in CPU usage is not a "factor", if we use the same logic from "quoted Text #2" then a decrease of 20 CPU to Amarr, Gallente and Minamatar logistics is viable given the following path of thought. The Gallente logistics dropsuit has 5 Low-Powered Slots and Minmatar has 4 Low-Powered Slots which are more than enough slots to fit a CPU chip, now if we bring Amarr to the picture we must take into consideration that having less slots also means less CPU usage which alleviates the CPU pressure of the dropsuit. Yet you're the only suit with 9 slots. Seriously, either give up a low slot or take the CPU hit. Hell, the CPU hit is better since you can just throw on a complex CPU enhancer which gives your more than 20 CPU.
Dude the suit is a 5 4 3, 5 high 4 low 3 equip, that's 12 total, no more or less than gal or min, problem is amarr needed a buff, but you saying 9 slots is not honest count equipment as well please. |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
TYRANNY of EVIL MEN
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 05:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU.
Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me . |
Justin Tymes
Raymond James Corp
241
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 05:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
This is stupid, Gallente doesn't need any more nerfs. The ability to use all proto EQ instead of 3/4 proto EQ is the only thing Gallente has, which isn't much of an advantage at all, and you want to take that away too? |
Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
19
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Posted - 2013.07.23 06:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Cosgar wrote:You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me .
in the end of the day Minmatar, galllente and Caldari do have 12 slots total. However with Amarr now gaining an additional low slot they now have 13 slots total. So in the end this is good. +1 |
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
TYRANNY of EVIL MEN
11
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Posted - 2013.07.23 08:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dj grammer wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Cosgar wrote:You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me . in the end of the day Minmatar, galllente and Caldari do have 12 slots total. However with Amarr now gaining an additional low slot they now have 13 slots total. So in the end this is good. +1
Agreed, Amarr needed some love, leave us Cals alone and if I want to use my suit to jack off a tank that should be my business and not CCP trying to define what my role should be as a player. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3059
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Posted - 2013.07.23 08:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Cosgar wrote:You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. Who is the man who doesn't have toes to count with? 5, 4, 3 cal 4, 5, 3 gal, 4, 4, 4 min? Looks like 12 12 12 to me .
Module slots, you know the things that give you access to more modules... |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
Top Men.
201
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Posted - 2013.07.23 08:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
It's NERF, or NOTHING! |
Valmar Shadereaver
Ninth Legion Freelance
25
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 10:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mintqueer wrote:Amarr Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (12) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 3 Sidearm Weapon: 1 Light Weapon: 1 Caldari Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 5 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 3 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 Gallente Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 3 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 5 Light Weapon: 1 Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit - Total Slots (14) High-Powered Module: 4 Medium Capacity Grenade: 1 Infantry Equipment: 4 Low-Powered Module: 4 Light Weapon: 1 BL4CKST4R wrote:You have the most slots of all the suits, so if a removal of 20 CPU is necessary for "balance" then give all Logistic suits 1 extra high slot ;) False Cosgar wrote:You got 5 highs and 4 lows, the highest slot allocation out of all the suits in the game. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer and HTFU. False Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:
Did you happen to realize that while every other proto logi suit has always 78 PG, the Amarr logi has had 66 PG? They are now giving it a bump of 3 PG, but that still leaves us 9 PG in the hole? (and 9 PG is arguably harder to come by than 20 CPU)...
In regards to the Amarr's logistics dropsuit, if the other logistics dropsuits were given a sidearm and higher base dropsuit HP then we might be talking about Amarr's PG being buffed to match it's counterparts, until then the sidearm capabilities give them edge of such class in combat. After looking at the data CCP believes that a sidearm is worth 2 Slots and some additional HP Taurion Bruni wrote:But the other suits need it.. Try fitting 4 high 4 lows 4 equipment, a grenade, and a weapon, with 20 less cpu In comparison to other suits the Caldari Logistics may have an additional High-Slot, whereas the Gallente/Minmatar suits have an additional equipment slot and the Amarr suit is the only suit from logistics class to have a sidearm slot. Therefore based merely on the CPU from High-Slot to Equipment I can ensure you that using data from the Marketplace there is a minimum difference if not High-Slot GearComplex Shield Extender: 54 CPU Complex Damage Modifier: 68 CPU Complex Shield Recharger: 90 CPU Complex Shield Energizer: 96 CPU Equipment GearDuvolle Quantum Active Scanner: 46 CPU Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector: 48 CPU Boundless Remote Explosive: 63 CPU Imperial Flux Drop Uplink: 71 CPU Lai Dai Flux Repair Tool:75 CPU Allotek Nanohive: 88 CPU
i dont see why you added the Complex Damage Modifier in your cpu list your a logi meaning a medic you have no need for damage modifier's if you do put one in and want more cpu cause it require's a lot then use a cpu enchancer mod
dont wanne lose a low power slot to one then dont waste a slot for more damage you have no need for damage your role is meanth to be suportive repair/equipment not assaulth so either go for asaulth suit's and stop whining or use the suit wat it is made for |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 11:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Just to clarify and as confirmed by CCP Logibro, the CPU nerf is 20 at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto.
Looks like some of you guys will need to get those calculators and spreadsheets out again.
CCP Logibro wrote:Just a small update. It seems we were missing the new CPU and PG values for all the tiers of the Caldari and Amarr Logistics suits. The Dev Blog now has all the values, and I've posted them below
Bumped up Amarr Logistics PG: 3 at STD (up to 36 from 33), 4 at ADV (up to 50 from 46) and 6 at PRO (up to 72 from 66)
Lower Caldari Logistics CPU: 20 at STD (down to 175 from 195), 28 at ADV (down to 245 from 273) and 40 at PRO (down to 350 from 390)
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Mintqueer
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 13:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Just to clarify and as confirmed by CCP Logibro, the CPU nerf is 20 at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto. Looks like some of you guys will need to get those calculators and spreadsheets out again. CCP Logibro wrote:Just a small update. It seems we were missing the new CPU and PG values for all the tiers of the Caldari and Amarr Logistics suits. The Dev Blog now has all the values, and I've posted them below
Bumped up Amarr Logistics PG: 3 at STD (up to 36 from 33), 4 at ADV (up to 50 from 46) and 6 at PRO (up to 72 from 66)
Lower Caldari Logistics CPU: 20 at STD (down to 175 from 195), 28 at ADV (down to 245 from 273) and 40 at PRO (down to 350 from 390)
I have just updated the OP and now is better, I will continue to improve the OP anytime.
Let the Caldari Logistics mark the path to the entire logistics class  |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
839
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 15:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
The CPU nerf just means you cannot stack a ton of shield modules without making a sacrifice elsewhere, removing CPU from other Logi suits means that we have to get something elsewhere to compensate, for example your sacrifice is 1 side arm 60 HP and .3 m/s, for +2 equipment, +1 high, and +1 low. What this means is that your suit still has higher survivability and still has Logi abilities than a Assault suit, but since you now have -20 CPU it is up to you to make the choice of survival and low equipment or Good equipment and low survival, no other logistics has this choice since most of us have pretty low survival since we only get 1 extra slot to buff our survival. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
58
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 15:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Like I said in another thread somewhere, due to the general OP ability of shield tanking AND the racial bonus AND the fact there was no reason to go assault. Alot of players went with the caldari logi.
Something needed to change with it, it is just too strong of a suit. it still has the best slot layout because you have 4 low slots at proto with makes the cpu nerf almost laughable as you can just slap on a cpu enhancer. and do not tell me you can't because your low slots aren't recquired in order for you to tank. As is the case with the gallente suit.
This nerf is done to bring the caldari suit in line with the others. The other suits are fine, yeah i can fit all proto equipment on my gallente suit and a proto weapon, but can i fully tank it properly after doing that, nope. and thats with leaving all of my highslots empty.
And lets be honest, this is being done mainly because of the INSANE HP a proto caldari logi can get just off of shields, its like 900 EHP. which is more than some heavies. And out tanking a tank, as a support character is a bit odd to me.
Also, Why nerf the other suits? literally why? how do they have an overbearing advantage? What qualifies them to be on the nerf train? Other than just because you say so and you think its balanced. the caldari logi was unbalanced to begin with and this fixes that problem. Would you rather lose 20 CPU? Or a High slot? And yes it would come down to a high slot, because removing a low would not fix the masssive shield tank problem. |
Gooseonian Ducksalot
XERCORE
E X T E R M I N A T U S
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mintqueer wrote:[quote=Sana Rayya]Just to clarify and as confirmed by CCP Logibro, the CPU nerf is 20 at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto. Looks like some of you guys will need to get those calculators and spreadsheets out again.
With a 40 CPU hit at the proto the CPU with level 5 core and electronics drops to 465 from 518. That takes away a complex shield extender right there to maintain the same support equipment. Plus the fact that with the skill bonus change to shield regulators, the Caldari suit gets 18 less HP per complex shield extender. This a pretty huge nerf for the people (like me) that actually use the suit in a support role. If the side arm slot is a distinctive role trait for the Amar suit, then with this nerf what makes the Caldari suit distinctive? Yeah it has the most slots (if you don't include the equipment slots, if you do the Minmatar and Gallente suits have the same), but with the nerf in order me to maintain the same level of support I will have to use up one of my lows for CPU upgrade, which takes away advantage of having the most slots.
My question is, will the Caldari suit get some CPU back when CCP figures out how to add bonus to equipment, or will it remain nerfed? If it remains nerfed will the other logi suits follow with a CPU hit? |
Stile451
Red Star.
EoN.
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 07:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
We will have to see what happens. Removing the CPU won't really make a difference to assault logis as you can still fit all complex shield extenders and a proto weapon easily.
When I first read it 20 CPU wasn't that big of a deal, but now that it's different between the tiers it may be a problem for actual logistics players. I can't run all proto gear on my minmatar proto suit with my passive upgrades at level 5(I can run 7 proto items, 2 advanced, 4 basic and 1 militia). The militia item in my lows isn't really necessary so I could replace it with a cpu module but I really shouldn't need to as I've already made sacrifices. The caldari logi shouldn't lost that much cpu if any(changing the bonus and shield recharge should have been enough). |
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Valmar Shadereaver
Ninth Legion Freelance
25
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Posted - 2013.07.24 08:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
40cpu los on the proto might be a bit harsh 30 wuild have been plenty to stil have suportive and some defensive capabilety's even im not using all of my galante slot's cause i stil need several skill's 3 in electronic's and 2 in pg and using one pg upgrade on a low power slot well my own faulth focusing on proto equip slot item's stil i surive long enof to be of help to my squad drop enof equip to help win the game or anoy the razbery's when we cant win cause of bluebery mcc camping sissy's -.- |
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