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ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
117
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Posted - 2013.07.20 20:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Django Quik wrote:I really don't see a problem with the HMGs. They're currently the 3rd most killing weapon in the game after only ARs and snipers and used a hell of a lot less than either of those. flaylocks and nades say "HI!!" LAnce whats up man? so what do think about this quick fix? Honestly? I give up. When this game start to mean something again I'll care. Hate to be the "doom and gloom" kind of person, but I'm pretty sure most people are seeing the writing on the wall. The balancing act in this game is a joke. Regardless of how many suggestions or feedback people give. I find it funny that the only AI weapon that heavies have shoot spitballs at the #1 suit in DUST, Caldari suits. So guess what, it take almost 300 bullets to put down a proto Cal suit with a proto HMG in CQC. It's a ******* joke. Heavies that do good in PC play their asses off. No lie.
Agreed... HMG in PC is VERY hard to be successful with, even with a dedicated logibro sidekick. I most ly run forge guns in PC to fill the role of AV, since there are so many other suits that can provide the AI role more efficiently.
Quote: If you have a problem with the HMG, in Dust of all games, then you are pathetic and definitely should not try to play other first person shooters.
Discussions about the effectivness of the HMG in PC battles (where EVERYONE is in Proto) versus Pub matches are two entirely different conversations. Before you start casting stones and calling people names perhaps you should live a day in their shoes. Or, I will take it from your statement that you get wrecked in Pubs by HMGs, therefore you think they are fine. |
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
117
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 20:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
You know what, Im just gonna say it. We need our B-Series back.. I think I would like... 1100 Shields, 400 armor, 5/8 recharge delay. Holler. |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
90
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 20:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Your fix won't do crap but ruin the gun even worse. They need to completely remove all turn caps and it'll be perfect. |
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
10
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Posted - 2013.07.20 20:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
I don't run run heavy but I don't disagree with a few changes. Probably the best fixes would simply be improve your turning speed slightly and as far as buffing the dmg I think they should adjust the percentage of the proficiency skill to 4 or 5 percent instead of 3... however if they were to do the later it would only be fair to adjust the same on any other similarly low dmg weapons. Btw Sir Campsalot, I've ran with you and against you and regardless of the hmg/heavy needing these fixes you destroy a lot of clones bro lol. |
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
117
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 20:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO wrote:I don't run run heavy but I don't disagree with a few changes. Probably the best fixes would simply be improve your turning speed slightly and as far as buffing the dmg I think they should adjust the percentage of the proficiency skill to 4 or 5 percent instead of 3... however if they were to do the later it would only be fair to adjust the same on any other similarly low dmg weapons. Btw Sir Campsalot, I've ran with you and against you and regardless of the hmg/heavy needing these fixes you destroy a lot of clones bro lol.
The problem has, and will always be, balancing suits/weapons for public matches, or the end game, PC.
I love my Heavy in pub matches. Sometimes I get pwnd 1v1, but most of the time I am enjoying myself and feeling competitive.
PC, not so much lol. Unless I am running my forge, then I feel like I am contributing wether on ground chasing tanks, or up on a roof raining hell down (well usually I am fighting other roof topeteers for the position and dont get much free time to lolforgesnipe). |
IRuby Heart
DIOS EX. Top Men.
836
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 21:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Increase DPS over continuous fire or heat build up. Problem solved.
Or Even more simply Increase base damage back to Chromsome levels across the board. |
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
119
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 21:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
IRuby Heart wrote:Increase DPS over continuous fire or heat build up. Problem solved.
Or Even more simply Increase base damage back to Chromsome levels across the board.
I think the problem stems mostly from initial combat, the first few seconds of the fight (sometimes the ONLY seconds you will have in a gun fight in PC). Heavies simply do not do any significant damage until they have depressed the trigger for more than a second.. and once that secod has been achieved, your enemy is strafing, jumping, and firing back with more accurate and deadly weapons... or chucking grenades at you causing you to break your position and start strafing yourself. Now you are back to square one, needing to get back to that one second of continuous fire to get rid of the dispersion.
If I were to TRY a fix it would be to make the HMG track more like an AR, maybe not as fast.. but definetely not as slow as it is now. Improve movement/turn speed.... remove the need to hold the trigger for a second to achieve optimal accuracy, and then lower damage to compensate.
After that.. you can tweak the damage as necessary to balance the weapon.
Damage has been tweaked a few times and has yet to resolve the problem.. so they need to try something else.
Just my thoughts.. again focused on PC battles and not pubs. |
Heavy Breaks
Red Star. EoN.
106
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Posted - 2013.07.20 21:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
My HMG fires one shot at about 1900dmg from 300meters...... |
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
119
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Posted - 2013.07.20 21:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Heavy Breaks wrote:My HMG fires one shot at about 1900dmg from 300meters......
Haha... quoted for truth. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
393
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:True, just give it a slight damage buff it should be fine or just make it do basic sub machine gun damage at proto level makes sense lore wise (sounds like something the Minmatars would do, have the same bullet for multiple guns) plus yes pubs theyre good against ransoms but in pc battles they don't cut it, been in 3 battles vs sver true blood and only 2 guys in 1 game ever used an HMG and they both did horrible. 4-9 and 2-11 something to this effect.
If you really are all about dps look at the scrambler rifle Std level 847 If its dam per clip thats gets you going, same gun 3240 still pretty good and at 60yd range or about. Not saying nerf scrambler only supporting why a damage buff to hmg is not a ludicrous proposition.
^^this = yes! same damage per level as smg will fix it too. (standing ovation) |
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D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
393
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Posted - 2013.07.21 08:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
calvin b wrote:The HMG is flawed, those of us who use it make it work. I have been a heavy for a long time so I can use it very well. The hit detection, the dispersion of the bullets will make you want to quit. I keep coming back because I love being a heavy with my HMG but alas it is a broken toy. Scouts can strafe faster than my gun can follow. If they take damage they can run faster than my bullets can travel. The shotgun has more range as well compared to my HMG. I have gone toe to toe with a scout/shotgun and have lost due to its poor design. It needs more damage out put at the moment or the heavy suit needs another high slot. I have mine at proficiency lvl 4 and at this lvl the gun should be a monster but sadly it is not. If you think I'm lying, skill into a proto heavy with a HMG similar to mine and take on any proto suit other than a heavy and see what happens. Also being an HMG user it takes more SP than an AR to skill into. So please fix this so I can do my job and actually hold a point and no a logi is not the answer. Because I will always shoot the logi first, so I can cut the life line of the other heavy.
^^ this is 100% true. i have proficiency lvl 5 and just about every other skill heavies need. its not enough. and it can't compete at the proto level. your comment is the experience of every true heavy.
(most of the heavies in big corps that dnt complain often are accompanied by a team of people with proto ARs... so its not really the heavy thats surviving due to skill its the proto ARs behind him that are clearing the way, and vs milita gear in pub matches... obviously the resaults are flawed) |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
393
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:True add that in with bad turn speed and the effects are compounded, on paper it sounds good but real life dispersion, damage of other guns, slow movement speed, giant hit box and only marginally higher HP than medium suits makes heavies a difficult class to play, I see most heavies reduced to forge DMR type roles. I think the damage would help but remember not all of the damage is ever applied, come to think of it only a relatively small percentage is ever consistently applied. So either make it so semi consistent damage is aplied or up the damage now, where it's at best inconsistently applied.
dnt forget the actual DPS of the HMG is only marginally better than that of an AR as well (29%+-), then factor in the above^^. people say up close its a monster... this only occurs when someone stands directly infornt of your HMG.... at the same time if someone stands directly infront of my AR, shotgun, SMG, flaylock, scrambler rifle, scrambler pistol...etc the result is the same.
high damage and low fire rate work with increased accuracy OR medium damage high fire rate with reduced accuracy (the same accuracy as it is now) work.
but something has to give. i dnt want it to be a death machine but it has to be better than light weapons at killing because its a heavy weapon. just as you have said. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
393
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Django Quik wrote:I really don't see a problem with the HMGs. They're currently the 3rd most killing weapon in the game after only ARs and snipers and used a hell of a lot less than either of those. flaylocks and nades say "HI!!" LAnce whats up man? so what do think about this quick fix? Honestly? I give up. When this game start to mean something again I'll care. Hate to be the "doom and gloom" kind of person, but I'm pretty sure most people are seeing the writing on the wall. The balancing act in this game is a joke. Regardless of how many suggestions or feedback people give. I find it funny that the only AI weapon that heavies have shoot spitballs at the #1 suit in DUST, Caldari suits. So guess what, it take almost 300 bullets to put down a proto Cal suit with a proto HMG in CQC. It's a ******* joke. Heavies that do good in PC play their asses off. No lie.
Lance has spoken. need i say anymore? if one of the best heavies in dust says it... there can be no refuting it. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
393
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
ER-Bullitt wrote:You know what, Im just gonna say it. We need our B-Series back.. I think I would like... 1100 Shields, 400 armor, 5/8 recharge delay. Holler.
yes^^ |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
393
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:Your fix won't do crap but ruin the gun even worse. They need to completely remove all turn caps and it'll be perfect.
the idea is that the damage is increased, the ROF is decreased and the accuracy is increased. doing this would make it a very deadly weapon.
if i did 77 damage per shot even with a 500-600 RPM i could just reck people. and if my HMG was more accurate people would just drop. remember what the TAC was doing... that would be my HMG but with more dispersion and other balancing factors. but the higher damage also means more effect over range. still....
anything would be better than now. turn speed whoever, is an issue with the suit.
the suit needs better turn speed, more slots, and btter ehp. |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN.
427
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
The HMG is not perfect and definitely needs work....
That being said a 500RPM Rotary drive Gatling gun would be the definition of stupid.
At 500 RPM multiple barrels are completely unnecessary. |
calvin b
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
77
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Also please fix the freakin sights. A little dot in a circle is not working. You have to place the dot just right or hit nothing. Make the dot bigger or circle smaller and that would be or hit center. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1014
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 08:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
ER-Bullitt wrote:Here are some quick points regarding PC battles.
Your enemy will flood the field with shield tanked suits. HMGs are very weak against shields It takes 1 second before the HMG reaches optimal dispersion, meaning it takes 1 second before the bullets fire straight. Your enemy in PC is among the most skilled in the game, they will not stand still for you. Explosions are everywhere (flaylocks, MD, fused grenades)... as a Heavy you do not have the luxury to stand still to fire your weapon to its maximum effectivness. You are slow, the chicken that cannot cross the road, easy to sneak up on, large hitbox, big head for crits, etc, etc, etc. 4 out of 5 of your points here do not necessarily mean anything with the HMG needs fixing. Shields are prevalent because they are better than armor. There's been a lot of mention of the strafing and jumping stuff but really the only suit that should be able to do this a lot is the scout. Explosive weapons are being spammed because they're OP but I believe this will be fixed for 1.3 (or 1.4 - dev blog coming soon!) The heavy suit is big and slow but doesn't have enough tank to be able to serve the point defense role for long before dying.
The big point to be taken from this is that there are a lot of other things that need balancing before the HMG should even be considered looking at. Also, we need the other racial heavies and more heavy weapons; maybe the mini heavy will have some bonuses to HMG or something...
And some people were comparing the HMG to the SMG but forgetting that the SMG has about half the effective range of the HMG, so it really needs to be dealing more DPS. The HMG is a close - medium range weapon; SMG is close only. |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
430
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 09:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
lol do you think CCP cares about this thread - or heavies? Give me proof they do. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
70
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 09:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
A 500rpm minigun makes no sence. Just buff the damage to smg levels or slightly less than smg |
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xSir Campsalotx
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
26
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Posted - 2013.07.21 11:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Yeah screw it make gallenete heavy weapon a 425rof 115 damage per shot blaster, still less dps than scrambler rifle. It'll be like a .50cal browning a real HMG.
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xSir Campsalotx
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
26
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Posted - 2013.07.21 11:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
So basically what D Hero is suggesting only I say make it a different racial weapon and keep the HMG a high rof low damage gun. 2 guns exactly opposite |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
78
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 11:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
HMG is fine >_> |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1019
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 12:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:So basically what D Hero is suggesting only I say make it a different racial weapon and keep the HMG a high rof low damage gun. 2 guns exactly opposite This is a good idea. D Hero - give up on 'fixing' the HMG. |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
439
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 12:35:00 -
[55] - Quote
D hero's heart is in the right place.
HMG has some serious flaws - but it's inidividual use that make those flaws apperent or not and how they use terrain/left stick.
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Boomer Dues Mortis
D3ath D3alers
168
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 13:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
I would like to see a 5% -10% range increase along with a 5-10 Dispersion decrease, I think this would fix any issues with the HMG, however I have not been in pc for around 3 weeks now so I do not know its current situation in very skilled matches. |
Alldin Kan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
417
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 13:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Honestly? I give up. When this game start to mean something again I'll care. Hate to be the "doom and gloom" kind of person, but I'm pretty sure most people are seeing the writing on the wall.
The balancing act in this game is a joke. Regardless of how many suggestions or feedback people give.
I find it funny that the only AI weapon that heavies have shoot spitballs at the #1 suit in DUST, Caldari suits. So guess what, it take almost 300 bullets to put down a proto Cal suit with a proto HMG in CQC. It's a ******* joke.
Heavies that do good in PC play their asses off. No lie. Lance has spoken. need i say anymore? if one of the best heavies in dust says it... there can be no refuting it.
No, it just goes to show how bad some of you are at this game. The HMG doesn't require any further changes, the only acceptable thing to implement would be a breach variant. Now do us all a favor and quit complaining about something that is working right.
P.S. I play solo so no, I never get carried, it's actually quite the opposite. |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
441
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 13:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Honestly? I give up. When this game start to mean something again I'll care. Hate to be the "doom and gloom" kind of person, but I'm pretty sure most people are seeing the writing on the wall.
The balancing act in this game is a joke. Regardless of how many suggestions or feedback people give.
I find it funny that the only AI weapon that heavies have shoot spitballs at the #1 suit in DUST, Caldari suits. So guess what, it take almost 300 bullets to put down a proto Cal suit with a proto HMG in CQC. It's a ******* joke.
Heavies that do good in PC play their asses off. No lie. Lance has spoken. need i say anymore? if one of the best heavies in dust says it... there can be no refuting it. No, it just goes to show how bad some of you are at this game. The HMG doesn't require any further changes, the only acceptable thing to implement would be a breach variant. Now do us all a favor and quit complaining about something that is working right. P.S. I play solo so no, I never get carried, it's actually quite the opposite. Hey now! Some of the heavies here are very good!
At pub stomping... |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
432
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 21:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
this is a thread about the HMG, please do not resort to insulting player skill. to even use an HMG you need tons of SP anyway so by default most heavies have at least marginally higher skill than the average player. to get any decent kills in a match means you must have good skill too as your suit and gun make you everyone's target.
on to the nitty gritty. I am not saying my fix is the absolute, quick fix. it was merely a suggestion. i had suggested in other threads that the HMG get SMG damage per shot, but CCP never responded...
when i used the breach variant of the Ar i saw a potential roll for the HMG. slowing down my fire rate but increasing my damage would make my clip last longer and generally a bigger threat to infantry so i wouldn't need to reload every 5seconds for 8 seconds...
increasing the damage high would make eneies think twice before jumping infront of my stream of bullets. and the breach AR has a 400RPM ROF, and its pretty decent all though weaker than the 705RPM standard AR.
increasing the base damage per shot, while reducing fire rate would be nice.
as suggested above i would like at least a breach variant to try it....
honestly i dnt even know what to do with the HMG as it is tied to the suit and the suit is weak all the weakness es of the suit exaserbate the weaknesses of the gun and vice verse to the point where you can't talk about one without talking about the other. nonetheless, the weapon is weak for multiple reasons.
the easiest thing to impliment would be the above.... or just increasing the damage to SMG damage. but then AR noobs would complain.... im about to call it quits |
calvin b
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
83
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 00:47:00 -
[60] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Honestly? I give up. When this game start to mean something again I'll care. Hate to be the "doom and gloom" kind of person, but I'm pretty sure most people are seeing the writing on the wall.
The balancing act in this game is a joke. Regardless of how many suggestions or feedback people give.
I find it funny that the only AI weapon that heavies have shoot spitballs at the #1 suit in DUST, Caldari suits. So guess what, it take almost 300 bullets to put down a proto Cal suit with a proto HMG in CQC. It's a ******* joke.
Heavies that do good in PC play their asses off. No lie. Lance has spoken. need i say anymore? if one of the best heavies in dust says it... there can be no refuting it. No, it just goes to show how bad some of you are at this game. The HMG doesn't require any further changes, the only acceptable thing to implement would be a breach variant. Now do us all a favor and quit complaining about something that is working right. P.S. I play solo so no, I never get carried, it's actually quite the opposite.
Bad at the game you say. I think not. I always go positive in a game and that is with a Dren suit with an HMG. Low level suit with an standard HMG and I am usually at the top of the leader board, I sometimes get TY for all I do. So no I am not terrible, I can go 10-0 easy with an AR. I decided to go Heavy because its a challenge to use a nerfed weapon and an underpowered suit. So when I do kill you just think about this, I used the lower tier suit with one high and two lows with a standard HMG to beat you in your proto suit. Just saying. Its all in the skill not the gun or suit. If the suit and weapon was working properly my kill count would double and you would be begging for a nerf. Point is the HMG and the heavy like a lot of weapons and suits have not got the love assault, logi, and AR's have, end of story. |
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