I think it might be due to the arms sticking out more during the run animation, might just be me.

You went to the trouble of setting up all this? Fair play my friend.

I can speak from experience when I thought I have missed somebody when shooting, only for them to try and sprint away and die. It seems magic bullets curve and follow the enemy .... :S

(Happens sporadically but quite rare)

Why are the links to mobile youtube?

I think I recall a dev at some point noting that hitbox is not the same as the collision detection... so, you could well be correct in that the environmental collision detection on the models increases but not necessarily the hitbox. That's just a possibility - I'm not denying your conclusions, just playing a little devil's advocate.

In either case, it's definitely something that needs some deep dev investigation.

Collision Model =/= Hit box.

Hm, this reminds me. There's this one ladder on the Orbital Artillery Outpost that leads to pretty much a dead end on the rooftop, but I was always able to squeeze through the this small gab on the right side no matter what suit I was wearing back in Chromosome. Ever since Uprising, no matter what suit I wear I cannot squeeze through it anymore regardless of whether I'm walking or sprinting. Not sure if this is related or not.

I have also noticed on several accounts I would fire a charged scrambler rifle at a sprinting enemy that would miss clearly behind the enemy, yet it would register as a hit regardless. I always racked this up to "lag" but never experienced any lag at all with anything else during these matches.

Collision Model =/= Hit box.

Collision Model =/= Hit box.

I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit.

ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab.

The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED.

The Light suit had them INCREASED.

hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit.

ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab.

The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED.

The Light suit had them INCREASED.

I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit.

ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab.

The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED.

The Light suit had them INCREASED.

I have a quick question.

After re-reading the OP, how were you able to determine that the hit box doesn't increase with the collision box?

We didn't, I carefully suggested that it's still under the maybe category as the only way to test is live fire. We did, however, prove it was not related to a certain map or object and it applies to everything in the environment.

Any thoughts on how to test the hit box?

Could place a shooter (x) with an AR alongside a crate. Scout (y) sprints straight forward at high speed while shooter fires straight ahead. Shooter AR dispersion should hit the crate, so if scout takes hits w/out line-of-sight, then his hitbox has to be expanding.

.
.y
.
.|---------|
.|---------|
.|---------|
.|---------|
x

Quick update with some more findings.

Query: How much room does a Scout need to sprint through a gap?
Test Method: Used a compact nanohive (2.0m radius) to judge distance between two LAVs and steadily increased the gap width until the Scout could successfully pass through undetered.

Results: 1.0m clearance is required for sprinting th as little as a 0.5m space for walking. With this we can assume adequate space needed, when sprinting, on either side, is a 25% increase approximately. Sprinting causing a noticable increase in collision occurrences and, if space is tight, will cause the player to 'glide' along collision edges or outright stop if approached head on.

- And I just specced into scout suits.....

Internal Error.
If you stick with it, which you shouldn't. You'll find folks in the same boat here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90055

Updated Report:
Test was conducted with Mr Musturd as the potential scout victim.

Hi Aeon,

These aren't the results I had expected to see, but I cannot argue with your method. Your test results explain why we're taking damage after reaching cover. Thanks for clearing this up, and great job once again.

So the sudden decrease to scout survivability in 1.2 resulted primarily from a performance improvement that boosted hit detection, right? I doubt CCP will rollback a performance improvement, so I wonder if they'll give us back our smaller hitbox now .

- Shotty GoBang

I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit.

ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab.

The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED.

The Light suit had them INCREASED.

So when I added the sprint speed boosts to my logi and he suddenly started clipping corners he never clipped before and became easier to hit was that because they decreased the heavy hit box or increased the scout hit box? It also gets worse the faster you go. I moved the boost up from standard to advanced and it became even more apparent. Also probably because of the standard hit boxes right? As my speed goes up I gain the hit box of a vehicle or something?

As Ive previously explained to others outside ofthis forum I have no idea how it could be fixed because all its really doing is rewarding players who arent aiming on target, but in all actuality missing by a degree associated with how fastthe target is moving. Basically, youre hitting because youre missing, whether that be intentional or not. Ive noticed a massivve jump in my KDR since discovering this though, landing 5-6 KDR games rather frequently.

I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit.

ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab.

The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED.

The Light suit had them INCREASED.

As Ive previously explained to others outside ofthis forum I have no idea how it could be fixed because all its really doing is rewarding players who arent aiming on target, but in all actuality missing by a degree associated with how fastthe target is moving. Basically, youre hitting because youre missing, whether that be intentional or not. Ive noticed a massivve jump in my KDR since discovering this though, landing 5-6 KDR games rather frequently.

Ive noticed a massivve jump in my KDR since discovering this though, landing 5-6 KDR games rather frequently.

Im assuming your kdr has improved due to fewer deaths and not more kills, yes? A scout's got to know his limitations!

I assume his KDR's improving because he's aiming behind moving targets rather than leading them.

+ 1 and really great work on these tests. Like others I experienced a serious decline in my scouting survivability and hit detection with my shotty. I was aiming at people but I'll try aiming a bit behind and see if the large holes in their body appear. I hope they sort this out. With speed being my preferred play style I feel pretty crippled in 1.2 but have a hard time leaving my hard level scout.

Even if this doesn't prove that Hitboxes are ****** up, it does give a reason as to why Scouts are getting caught on so many Objects/Players as they try make their getaway.

Hey Aeon,
When we last spoke (July 8th), you had switched from Scout to medium frame following the initial Uprising nerf(s). Are you back to running Scout?
- Shotty GoBang

+ 1 and really great work on these tests. Like others I experienced a serious decline in my scouting survivability and hit detection with my shotty. I was aiming at people but I'll try aiming a bit behind and see if the large holes in their body appear. I hope they sort this out. With speed being my preferred play style I feel pretty crippled in 1.2 but have a hard time leaving my hard level scout.

Aeon's findings explain why people have been complaining about being hit and killed even after already getting behind cover but this is not an experience new to Uprising; it's something people I know have complained about as far back as Codex.

Some of the ideas Ive suggested (despite them being unanimously disapproved of) was to give Scouts a specific role. Originally I suggested Cloaking be restricted to Scouts only to give them a definitely different playstyle over any other class much like Heavies and their use of Heavy Weapons/Dual Light Weapons.


There are a lot kf changes to Scouts needed to make Scouts a viable class and I think a good place to start is to enforce a standpoint that precision must beat profile EVEN WHEN AIMING DOWN THE SIGHTS as theres been times where a Scout was suddenly detected by a Heavy because a Sniper looked in that general direction. Scanners need a rework as even scouts with all level five skills cant get beneath their radar (despite no one using them) from Advanced and up.

[/u].

Bear in mind its on a case by case basis. Theres a lot of variables to consider.

- Target frame. A light frame will be all over the place, a heavy not so much.
- Target speed. The faster they move the greater the distance their hitbox is from their model. This will change between anarmor and a shield tanker.
- Latency. The server has to catch up with their actions before it sends you the information. If theres poor latency, try to predict where they WERE not where they ARE.
- Understand that this only applies when they are moving perpendicularly as opposed to parallel. If theyre running away from you or toward you, just aim at their model and let the game handle the rest.
- Most importantly, remember that all of these rules apply to you as well.

As a sniper I have learne one thing about these so called "magic curving bullets," they are not magic or curving, it is a result of network latency (aka lag). If someone is sprinting, shots lined up perfectly on them will always miss, you have to shoot behind them to hit them. And that applies to all suits, the faster they move the further behind them you have to shoot. Yes this is a problem, but it is not an enlarged hit box, just a displaced hit box. This is not exclusive to snipers either, it applies to all weapons. I am not saying it doesn't need to be fixed, it most definitely does, but you should at least know what the issue is before just assuming. Again, the problem is hitbox displacement due to network latency.

Edit: Posted in General Discussion as its not necessary a Bug. Yet.

Tests were conducted on a domination match on North American servers (both testers are resident) on Skim Junction.

Precursor:

This is an issue chalked up and reported here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92132&find=unread

The purpose of this thread is to lay down the ground work for a testing base contributing to this phenomenon. As such, we've ruled out two direct concerns previously brought up.

A.) That this is a map error in Spine Cresent. Common belief is that this phenomenon only occurs in a small gap at objective Alpha on the bridge. Videos show this is not the case.

B.) That this is associated with Lag. Being as we were on North American servers, this should not have been the case and even in a high latency environment testing would inevitably come out the same due to testing procedures.

What we concluded is that while the hit box may not grow larger - something CCP states there are not mechanics that could possibly occur in this manner - something IS happening to prevent the Scouts adequate access through previously passable locations when they sprint. More so than a Heavy, as we'll get to in a later video.



http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/watch?v=DjRe7iWl22A&feature=plcp



http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/watch?v=EQ5kOiqEYG4&feature=plcp



http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/watch?v=IfUOdBn6Qt8&feature=plcp



Warning: Includes crude speech from recorder due to disbelief as the Heavy's elbows barely clipped through the bumpers.

http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/channel/UC1DQd-dmONpNZJfO8fnnJGA?feature=guide

In Conclusion

While this does not necessarily prove that a Sprinting Scout is easier to hit due to hitbox increase, it does invariably prove that ALL suits are less agile when sprinting as the collidable objects are very much more noticable. Turning corners, trying to squeeze through tight spaces and running past players/objects is difficult to manage when sprinting because of this oddity, whatever the case may be.

So does sprinting decrease a Scouts survivability? Thats still up for debate. If you guys have any other thoughts on how to more accurately gauge this, feel free to suggest something to us and we'll do what we can.

Links not working...

Links not working...

Links not working...

All provided links have been replaced. The links used previously were for the mobile version of youtube - they now go to the videos as they are for normal Desktops.

Same problem here. Video links don't work and I just get YouTube home page instead.

UPDATE: Now it works. Thank you for edits!

Edit: Posted in General Discussion as its not necessary a Bug. Yet.

Tests were conducted on a domination match on North American servers (both testers are resident) on Skim Junction.

Precursor:

This is an issue chalked up and reported here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92132&find=unread

The purpose of this thread is to lay down the ground work for a testing base contributing to this phenomenon. As such, we've ruled out two direct concerns previously brought up.

A.) That this is a map error in Spine Cresent. Common belief is that this phenomenon only occurs in a small gap at objective Alpha on the bridge. Videos show this is not the case.

B.) That this is associated with Lag. Being as we were on North American servers, this should not have been the case and even in a high latency environment testing would inevitably come out the same due to testing procedures.

What we concluded is that while the hit box may not grow larger - something CCP states there are not mechanics that could possibly occur in this manner - something IS happening to prevent the Scouts adequate access through previously passable locations when they sprint. More so than a Heavy, as we'll get to in a later video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjRe7iWl22A



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ5kOiqEYG4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUOdBn6Qt8



Warning: Includes crude speech from recorder due to disbelief as the Heavy's elbows barely clipped through the bumpers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2nu8_7nCBc

In Conclusion

While this does not necessarily prove that a Sprinting Scout is easier to hit due to hitbox increase, it does invariably prove that ALL suits are less agile when sprinting as the collidable objects are very much more noticable. Turning corners, trying to squeeze through tight spaces and running past players/objects is difficult to manage when sprinting because of this oddity, whatever the case may be.

So does sprinting decrease a Scouts survivability? Thats still up for debate. If you guys have any other thoughts on how to more accurately gauge this, feel free to suggest something to us and we'll do what we can.

Ok, this is caused by the collision box changing shape when the player sprints to better fit the mesh. We'll change this so you don't catch on stuff.

It isn't related to any issues with hit detection. It looks like the hit detection issue may be latency related, investigation continues.

Ok, this is caused by the collision box changing shape when the player sprints to better fit the mesh. We'll change this so you don't catch on stuff.

It isn't related to any issues with hit detection. It looks like the hit detection issue may be latency related, investigation continues.

Thanks for looking into this. I have also noticed issues with sprinting and getting stuck on the 'crows nest'.
On the map - Ashland,
The rooftop area accessible via ladder in-between objectives B and C, closer to B. That area overlooking the CRU on one side and the B objective on the other.

It is as if we get stuck in quick sand or something. I have only had it happen a couple of times but its always in that area and with a scout suit that is sprinting.

Thanks for looking into this. I have also noticed issues with sprinting and getting stuck on the 'crows nest'.
On the map - Ashland,
The rooftop area accessible via ladder in-between objectives B and C, closer to B. That area overlooking the CRU on one side and the B objective on the other.

It is as if we get stuck in quick sand or something. I have only had it happen a couple of times but its always in that area and with a scout suit that is sprinting.

Ok, this is caused by the collision box changing shape when the player sprints to better fit the mesh. We'll change this so you don't catch on stuff.

It isn't related to any issues with hit detection. It looks like the hit detection issue may be latency related, investigation continues.

I can concur there seems to be an invisible wall that slows movement there it is easy to reproduce. I wear a heavy suit if that helos

Just wanna say, thank you all soo much for the diligence looking into this and setting up the tests etc. Awesome job. And CCP Devs, really pleased you're reading and taking a look.

As someone who wants to play scout for all the gameplay variety it gives (sneak, evade, -5 To Hit etc. :) ) I really would like to know that stacking speed boosts, sinking mass SP into Biotics V, and sprinting does not have the reverse effect.

Again, awesome work all around. Let's fix what needs fixing :)

Edit: Posted in General Discussion as its not necessary a Bug. Yet.

Tests were conducted on a domination match on North American servers (both testers are resident) on Skim Junction.

Precursor:

This is an issue chalked up and reported here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92132&find=unread

The purpose of this thread is to lay down the ground work for a testing base contributing to this phenomenon. As such, we've ruled out two direct concerns previously brought up.

A.) That this is a map error in Spine Cresent. Common belief is that this phenomenon only occurs in a small gap at objective Alpha on the bridge. Videos show this is not the case.

B.) That this is associated with Lag. Being as we were on North American servers, this should not have been the case and even in a high latency environment testing would inevitably come out the same due to testing procedures.

What we concluded is that while the hit box may not grow larger - something CCP states there are not mechanics that could possibly occur in this manner - something IS happening to prevent the Scouts adequate access through previously passable locations when they sprint. More so than a Heavy, as we'll get to in a later video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjRe7iWl22A



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ5kOiqEYG4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUOdBn6Qt8



Warning: Includes crude speech from recorder due to disbelief as the Heavy's elbows barely clipped through the bumpers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2nu8_7nCBc

In Conclusion

While this does not necessarily prove that a Sprinting Scout is easier to hit due to hitbox increase, it does invariably prove that ALL suits are less agile when sprinting as the collidable objects are very much more noticable. Turning corners, trying to squeeze through tight spaces and running past players/objects is difficult to manage when sprinting because of this oddity, whatever the case may be.

So does sprinting decrease a Scouts survivability? Thats still up for debate. If you guys have any other thoughts on how to more accurately gauge this, feel free to suggest something to us and we'll do what we can.

CCP this is what you missing , dedicate and pasionate people

Awwwwhhh, not gonna lie this made me smile

I've actually been working -VERY- hard on going to college for Game Design so I can get my bachelor's degree to hopefully work at CCP one day. It's been my ultimate goal for the past five years and I'm very excited to say that I'm finally making progress toward that end.

I did notice they are hiring QA for Shanghai but I don't have any previous job experience...

Unless you count numerous alpha/beta tests for a variety of games, mods and even being a developer for a text based game.

I dunno - might throw an application in for the ***** and giggles, see what happens xD

I wonder if this is the cuase of the sticky walls in this game??? I'm so tired of being grab onto by walls.

CCP has been known for hiring from the community. I mean look at CCP Logibro and CCP Mintchip lately.