DUST Search - Scout Hitbox Increase - Proof its not the Map!

All Channels

General Discussions

Scout Hitbox Increase - Proof its not the Map!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2150	Posted - 2013.07.20 07:46:00 - [1] - Quote Edit: Posted in General Discussion as its not necessary a Bug. Yet. Tests were conducted on a domination match on North American servers (both testers are resident) on Skim Junction. Precursor: This is an issue chalked up and reported here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92132&find=unread The purpose of this thread is to lay down the ground work for a testing base contributing to this phenomenon. As such, we've ruled out two direct concerns previously brought up. A.) That this is a map error in Spine Cresent. Common belief is that this phenomenon only occurs in a small gap at objective Alpha on the bridge. Videos show this is not the case. B.) That this is associated with Lag. Being as we were on North American servers, this should not have been the case and even in a high latency environment testing would inevitably come out the same due to testing procedures. What we concluded is that while the hit box may not grow larger - something CCP states there are mechanics that could possibly occur in this manner - something IS happening to prevent the Scouts adequate access through previously passable locations when they sprint. More so than a Heavy, as we'll get to in a later video. Test A - Scout with base movement speed http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/watch?v=DjRe7iWl22A&feature=plcp Test B - Scout with Two Enhanced Kin Cats http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/watch?v=EQ5kOiqEYG4&feature=plcp Test C - Scout with Two Militia Armor Plates http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/watch?v=IfUOdBn6Qt8&feature=plcp Test D - Heavy with One Enhanced Kin Cat Warning: Includes crude speech from recorder due to disbelief as the Heavy's elbows barely clipped through the bumpers. http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&rdm=ticq73hf#/channel/UC1DQd-dmONpNZJfO8fnnJGA?feature=guide In Conclusion While this does not necessarily prove that a Sprinting Scout is easier to hit due to hitbox increase, it does invariably prove that ALL suits are less agile when sprinting as the collidable objects are very much more noticable. Turning corners, trying to squeeze through tight spaces and running past players/objects is difficult to manage when sprinting because of this oddity, whatever the case may be. So does sprinting decrease a Scouts survivability? Thats still up for debate. If you guys have any other thoughts on how to more accurately gauge this, feel free to suggest something to us and we'll do what we can.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 832	Posted - 2013.07.20 07:50:00 - [2] - Quote I think it might be due to the arms sticking out more during the run animation, might just be me.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2151	Posted - 2013.07.20 07:54:00 - [3] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I think it might be due to the arms sticking out more during the run animation, might just be me. Animations usually dont have much affect on collision detection in that manner, but its possible and it could very easily be perceived as an increase in hit box detection. Something we'll test later. Even so, probably shouldnt be more than a heavy on the outer edges
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 92	Posted - 2013.07.20 08:00:00 - [4] - Quote You went to the trouble of setting up all this? Fair play my friend. I can speak from experience when I thought I have missed somebody when shooting, only for them to try and sprint away and die. It seems magic bullets curve and follow the enemy .... :S (Happens sporadically but quite rare)
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2152	Posted - 2013.07.20 11:09:00 - [5] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: You went to the trouble of setting up all this? Fair play my friend. I can speak from experience when I thought I have missed somebody when shooting, only for them to try and sprint away and die. It seems magic bullets curve and follow the enemy .... :S (Happens sporadically but quite rare) Yes we did, and were willing to go much further provided theres questions to be answered
Nack Jicholson DUST University Ivy League 26	Posted - 2013.07.20 11:31:00 - [6] - Quote Why are the links to mobile youtube?
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2153	Posted - 2013.07.20 11:56:00 - [7] - Quote Nack Jicholson wrote: Why are the links to mobile youtube? I dont have a PC, had to upload with my phone.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 655	Posted - 2013.07.20 12:12:00 - [8] - Quote Hm, this reminds me. There's this one ladder on the Orbital Artillery Outpost that leads to pretty much a dead end on the rooftop, but I was always able to squeeze through the this small gab on the right side no matter what suit I was wearing back in Chromosome. Ever since Uprising, no matter what suit I wear I cannot squeeze through it anymore regardless of whether I'm walking or sprinting. Not sure if this is related or not. I have also noticed on several accounts I would fire a charged scrambler rifle at a sprinting enemy that would miss clearly behind the enemy, yet it would register as a hit regardless. I always racked this up to "lag" but never experienced any lag at all with anything else during these matches.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 1005	Posted - 2013.07.20 12:23:00 - [9] - Quote I think I recall a dev at some point noting that hitbox is not the same as the collision detection... so, you could well be correct in that the environmental collision detection on the models increases but not necessarily the hitbox. That's just a possibility - I'm not denying your conclusions, just playing a little devil's advocate. In either case, it's definitely something that needs some deep dev investigation.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2154	Posted - 2013.07.20 12:36:00 - [10] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I think I recall a dev at some point noting that hitbox is not the same as the collision detection... so, you could well be correct in that the environmental collision detection on the models increases but not necessarily the hitbox. That's just a possibility - I'm not denying your conclusions, just playing a little devil's advocate. In either case, it's definitely something that needs some deep dev investigation. Interesting. Still, increased COLLISION detection shouldnt occur from sprinting, at least in my opinion. If we're sticking with this fast paced theme then weneed to be able to move without outside influence getting in the way.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3433	Posted - 2013.07.20 13:13:00 - [11] - Quote Good to see that there is visual evidence on the matter. More confirmation that the hit box increases with speed.
Lightning Bolt2 DUST University Ivy League 72	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:55:00 - [12] - Quote +1 Good work! more people are getting aware of this problem, I can use a MLT AR fit and it feels very easy to hit scouts, even if I miss by 5 feet!
mr musturd A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 46	Posted - 2013.07.20 19:48:00 - [13] - Quote Bump
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 6304	Posted - 2013.07.20 19:49:00 - [14] - Quote Collision Model =/= Hit box.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2164	Posted - 2013.07.20 22:44:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Collision Model =/= Hit box. Right, we've brought this up in the original post. Either way, its proven that its more difficult to sprint through an area with collidable objects.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5337	Posted - 2013.07.20 23:02:00 - [16] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Hm, this reminds me. There's this one ladder on the Orbital Artillery Outpost that leads to pretty much a dead end on the rooftop, but I was always able to squeeze through the this small gab on the right side no matter what suit I was wearing back in Chromosome. Ever since Uprising, no matter what suit I wear I cannot squeeze through it anymore regardless of whether I'm walking or sprinting. Not sure if this is related or not. I have also noticed on several accounts I would fire a charged scrambler rifle at a sprinting enemy that would miss clearly behind the enemy, yet it would register as a hit regardless. I always racked this up to "lag" but never experienced any lag at all with anything else during these matches. I have a video clip of this floating around somewhere.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 676	Posted - 2013.07.21 00:03:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Collision Model =/= Hit box. Even so, sprinting shouldn't increase the collision model which we now have proof that it does.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 376	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:23:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Collision Model =/= Hit box. Something's still up, CPM_Saber. Most Scouts will tell you that they're better off walking to cover than running for cover since 1.2. This sounds ridiculous but it is absolutely the case. There's also the matter of us becoming sniper candy overnight with 1.2; we used to be tough targets while zig-zagging at 10 m/s. It's not a collision model tweak that turned my speed tank into a bullet magnet. Something's up. - Shotty GoBang PS: Thanks for checking in on us. o7
Shrapnels The Order 1886 214	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:30:00 - [19] - Quote I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit. ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab. The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED. The Light suit had them INCREASED.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 377	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:35:00 - [20] - Quote Shrapnels wrote: I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit. ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab. The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED. The Light suit had them INCREASED. How 'bout the hitbox of a Death Taxi Driver? Death Taxi Driver reports being hit by turret fire w/out Line of Sight while on the move: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94426&find=unread Cmdr Wang says "This is by design. Drivers are taking damage as intended." https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34746&p=3

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2171	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:35:00 - [21] - Quote Shrapned wrote: hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit. ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab. The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED. The Light suit had them INCREASED. I always wonder how people become so alphanumerically violent and Ive chalked it up to bad parenting. or schools. dunno. Either way, calm down and post constructively so that we know who the hell youre talking to, then post the evidence of your theory. kthnxbai.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 681	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:38:00 - [22] - Quote Shrapnels wrote: I hope you CLUELESS idots realize that ALL Hit-Boxes were made to be ALL the SAME NO Matter what Suit your using now. CCP did this with the patch-release of the Commando suit. ALL hit-boxes are NOW the Same and the Standard is the Assault suit or "Medium" category in the Market tab. The Heavy suit had there Hit-boxes REDUCED. The Light suit had them INCREASED. I hope your playstation catches on fire tonight.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2171	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:18:00 - [23] - Quote Quick update with some more findings. Query: How much room does a Scout need to sprint through a gap? Test Method: Used a compact nanohive (2.0m radius) to judge distance between two LAVs and steadily increased the gap width until the Scout could successfully pass through undetered. Results: 1.0m clearance is required for sprinting th as little as a 0.5m space for walking. With this we can assume adequate space needed, when sprinting, on either side, is a 25% increase approximately. Sprinting causing a noticable increase in collision occurrences and, if space is tight, will cause the player to 'glide' along collision edges or outright stop if approached head on. Query: Is there a difference in necessary clearance for a Heavy, as compared to the results fromthe Scout? Test Method: Same instances as previous testing, simply changed suit. Results: Clearance necessity was equal to that of a Scout and all suits therein. A Heavy cannot clear an object that a Scout cannot and vice versa. Data is inconclusive as results were largely thesame. Query: Does this phenomenon attribute to the notorious map issue(s) in which the player is caught in 'quicksand'? Test Method: Area in map where player gets 'snared' was located and tested with variety of suits with variety of conditions. Results: This was found to be almost entirely due to small hills having sides that are too steep, rather than invisible objects colliding with the player. While tests are inconclusive as we were unable to test all 'map snares', we are convinced this is unrelated. Testers: CeeJ Mantis, Harlequin 13 and mr mustard
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3436	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:26:00 - [24] - Quote I have a quick question. After re-reading the OP, how were you able to determine that the hit box doesn't increase with the collision box?
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2171	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:37:00 - [25] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I have a quick question. After re-reading the OP, how were you able to determine that the hit box doesn't increase with the collision box? We didn't, I carefully suggested that it's still under the maybe category as the only way to test is live fire. We did, however, prove it was not related to a certain map or object and it applies to everything in the environment.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F 62	Posted - 2013.07.21 03:36:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I have a quick question. After re-reading the OP, how were you able to determine that the hit box doesn't increase with the collision box? We didn't, I carefully suggested that it's still under the maybe category as the only way to test is live fire. We did, however, prove it was not related to a certain map or object and it applies to everything in the environment. Any thoughts on how to test the hit box? The only thought I have atm is to have a sniper lined up behind your scout as it walks/runs forward. Have them run along the edge of a flat building edge to give a nice straight line. Have the sniper aim out to the side and slowly walk the crosshair in until hits are registered. Use hives to mark distances so you fire at the same distance every time.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 378	Posted - 2013.07.21 04:18:00 - [27] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: Any thoughts on how to test the hit box? Could place a shooter (x) with an AR alongside a crate. Scout (y) sprints straight forward at high speed while shooter fires straight ahead. Shooter AR dispersion should hit the crate, so if scout takes hits w/out line-of-sight, then his hitbox has be expanding. . .y . .\|---------\| .\|---------\| .\|---------\| .\|---------\| x
pseudosnipre DUST University Ivy League 78	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:44:00 - [28] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Azri Sarum wrote: Any thoughts on how to test the hit box? Could place a shooter (x) with an AR alongside a crate. Scout (y) sprints straight forward at high speed while shooter fires straight ahead. Shooter AR dispersion should hit the crate, so if scout takes hits w/out line-of-sight, then his hitbox has to be expanding. . .y . .\|---------\| .\|---------\| .\|---------\| .\|---------\| x I like. However i would suggest using a laser rifle for a tighter damage corridor. Now we just have to find someone who actually respecced into them.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3436	Posted - 2013.07.21 07:43:00 - [29] - Quote This is why we need dedicated training areas.
Morathi III Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 150	Posted - 2013.07.21 07:55:00 - [30] - Quote All hit box are now the same..... So the scout is nerfed in 1.2. I hope the dev come and play the game with the super proto gallente scout! The best suit in the game! We know at least why they only give free Gallente scout suit in their event



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.