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The Info Broker
Dust Reports
426
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Posted - 2013.07.19 02:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been getting increasingly concerned by the spread of the negativity around the Dust 514 community. It seems like the hardest of veterans and the squishiest of blueberries are starting to talk about Dust 514 in the past tense. I've been thinking about what has happened to cause this, and hopefully what can be done to get fans back behind the game.
The Psychology of a Dust 514 player
Dust 514 is a game that rewards time commitment and dedication. Its mechanics are set up to make you feel like you are constantly making progress. This unfortunately causes some negative community issues, players who would normally leave a game, or not play as much to prevent burnout have a negative feeling of 'losing' potential skill on their characters. This causes a certain percentage of players to stay despite not enjoying gameplay to just chase SP. These players find themselves holding onto the promise of a better game in the future. Soontm probably sums up their general disappointment. This is the case for some of the bitter vets who have been here for nearly a year. This group isn't a small subset of veterans, even prominent members of the CPM had more or less given up on the gameplay of dust just chasing SP for months before being elected to the CPM.
There is no easy fix for this as the problem primarily is with the player themselves. Making the choice to play when you don't want to will naturally make Dust start feeling like less of a game and more of a job. While CCP doesn't help these players by gating a lot of good content behind millions of SP I hope players who hate playing dust stop playing, and don't give into the temptation to AFK farm out SP making pubs even less exciting for the community.
New Content/Patches either feels marginalized or game breaking
I feel like this is the prominent problem with Dust at the moment. 1.2 was supposed to bring in new maps, and new game modes. While it did technically deliver on this, I know a lot of people were expecting content that felt truly new. Instead we got a few new module layouts and two new modules, and a simplified version of Skirmish. While I don't mean to downplay how much it did to help the game I think it fell a bit short of some peoples expectations in making dust feel like it got 'new' content.
The new weapons were not at all balanced to the top end play. The plasma cannon proved to be useless in comparison to the forge gun, the scrambler rifle was decently done, but still was not equal to the duvolle, and the Flaylock proved to be so overpowered that it had to be banned by the players themselves so save the integrity of the matches, the same can be said about the contact grenades. The result is complete spamming of flaylocks in PC, and the extinction of the plasma cannon and scrambler rifle, at least in high end PC matches.
It's great to see CCP is primarily focusing on balance for 1.3. I think they are finally addressing some long broken issues that are causing the players to turn on the game and CCP. Making LAV's cost ISK, and fixing flaylocks and cal logi suits is certainly a step in the right direction, however whenever they make two steps in the right direction they seem to always make one step back in the wrong one. A recent example of this is the promotion on the M2 contact grenades. They have openly come out and said balancing this grenade is a priority, then they release a promotion so you can stock up on them on the cheap and without the SP investment. What's even worse is the paid AUR M2 contacts require a lot less CPU and PG making it clearly superior to the proto ISK version. Vehicle balancing is also still a real problem with Logi-Lav's turning the average match of Dust 514 into a homicidal crazy taxi game.
Planetary Conquest - only top talent need apply
When CCP took out contracts with 1.2 it turned PC into the only place players could turn for real competition. Factional Warfare was supposed to fill this void, but matches are still relatively infrequent, and getting a good fight there isn't always going to happen. What I've observed over the last two months of watching PC is that only about three alliances have any major sway in PC, and the corporations outside of those alliances are mostly around due to the good will from the top three groups. 245 districts all with the same incentive and reward means that there is no in game incentive for the top groups to fight. Looking solely at game mechanics the top Corps are primarily encouraged to destroy the smaller less skilled Corporations and take their land with little contest. This would turn Dust 514 back into a lobby shooter for all but a few thousand players (only a couple hundred of which would be involved in PC). It's extremely lucky for the community that the top groups motto is 'lol ISK'. By making ISK relatively worthless by not allowing player trading you've fostered a PC environment where nobody is out to make as much ISK possible by cutting other players throats. I think at this point the major PC alliances are more worried about keeping players in the game than filling up their wallets. If they all acted in only their best interest PC would so extremely exclusive that it would just be written off by 98% of the community.
Personally I think Team True Grit is doing an outstanding job of addressing PC issues. With two fixes already addressing the more core fighting mechanics they have shown they are really on top of player concerns and complaints. The problem with PC at the moment is that it only works largely because the community has got together and decided to make it work, planet fight club and land sales at absurd rates to indie groups keep PC alive in its current state. I think PC would thrive if they opened up a new region, and incentive the new region with better rewards so we can split up the talent levels. If a new region of space was opened up and generated more income we would see the top talent migrate to it. |
The Info Broker
Dust Reports
426
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Posted - 2013.07.19 02:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
^Maxed out characters in a post so I'll just drop this here.
I'm just looking at what I think driving people to become so negative about dust, wondering what you guys think. |
Zekain Kade
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1255
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Posted - 2013.07.19 02:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because we're all just a bunch of self entitled pricks with absolutely no patients.
WELCOME TO THE CONSOLE SIDE OF GAMING. Please dispose your tears in the blue pitcher
|
The Info Broker
Dust Reports
430
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 03:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Because we're all just a bunch of self entitled pricks with absolutely no patients.
WELCOME TO THE CONSOLE SIDE OF GAMING. Please dispose your tears in the blue pitcher
I think there is a lot more to it than just saying console communities suck. Just trying to find out exactly why everyone is as bitter as they are on the forums. |
EternalRMG
Eir Gaming
416
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Posted - 2013.07.19 03:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Most people are vets that are tired of having the same issues as in closed beta
Others just want to see this game die
And the most stupid ones just want dust to be a f2p cod |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc
Dark Taboo
1568
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
We console gamers have a preference for finished or at least working as intended, games. We got this trait from the pre modern console era. Back when games came in Floppy disk, cartridges and later DVD's, games were tested to the max by deb's because the product that was to be sold was finished and no further revision would be possible without a recall. For some reason, we still expect the same service.
On the issue of Call of Duty... There are a lot of good lessons to be learned from it. We can stand to learn from weapon balance, what they got right and what they got wrong.
On the issue of why many people are bitter, you are right. Many people turn the game on just to earn SP. I understand why they do it. Though, I feel that it only makes them dislike the game. When I stopped playing, I did found that I became a better member of the forums for it. Sometimes, you have to know when to throw in the towel and take a long break. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
870
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm bitter because I've been here for a year and Armor tanking still is at a heavy disadvantage when compared to shields. |
DRDEEZE TWO POINTO
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cause ccp can't balance **** ooh look at I'm ccp I'm racist against armarr and gallente and praise caldari ooh let's give them a buff also. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2836
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Every game forum is like this. The ones that aren't are over-modded like the PS2 forums. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6242
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
o-O I haven't given up chasing SP. I just leveled 2 all my suits, heavy weapons, and most of my lights, afterwards I plan on leveling up to 2 the side arms and vehicle command then going back for level 3. |
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Viktor Zokas
187.
League of Infamy
42
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
I believe it is due to those people who are lost in their faith. It is sad, but a unavoidable situation in a universe with so much chaos. The Amarr Empire works diligently to help those poor souls.
Those that can be saved, reap the rewards. Those that can not be saved or refuse enlightenment, mercifully are relieved of their torment.
Hopefully the Amarr Empire will one day be able to help all souls in needs, and the chaos may one day subside. |
The Info Broker
Dust Reports
432
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 04:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:o-O I haven't given up chasing SP. I just leveled 2 all my suits, heavy weapons, and most of my lights, afterwards I plan on leveling up to 2 the side arms and vehicle command then going back for level 3.
Mostly referencing Jenza and Nova who both were AFK'ing to the cap before taking the CPM positions. Just pointing out that vet burnout is a serious issue, and it's turning players off even those who are really dedicated to making dust better. New content and balance are both important, but I'm hoping to hear from the players themselves on why they don't enjoy playing dust matches if that is the case for them. |
calvin b
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
54
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think I know the answer because vitamin G is not legal yet. If green was legal this would mellow some out. Just maybe, |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
503
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
The bitterness comes from the complete arrogance of CCP Shanghai and there total ignoring of all the closed beta feedback. The knowledge that it was admitted to us CCP bases their weapon balancing decisions from pub data, the game clients stability was in shambles and issues that were discovered after a few test PC mathces have been known and reported over 6 months ago.
Now add to this continued blunders in balance and gear decisions, the general lack of directed communication, pseudocommunications that borrder on directives rather than opportunitieis for proper discussion. Throw onto this combining the worst elements of MMO (grind, grind and more grind) with NONE of the good stuff (open world, market, trading, real meta) and combine it with a D level shooter experience(counter strike 1.6 runs better, hell i can find some shooters that were played on floppy disc that run better).
Now throw in that all of this was thrown out the window and we went from chromosome to uprising which is essentially an entirely different game then the one we've been playing for months and it went completely in the wrong direction (meaning it universally got worse).
Throw to this uprisings idea of new content was larger SP sinks and the realization for the playerbase that all CCP will do is bleed the players for boosters if they want to get any reasonable amount of content in.
Lastly it is the clear and obvious fundamental disconnect between CCP and the SHOOTER community. This game progressively got worse the more the eve players insisted on the worst MMO elements from EVE be interwoven into the game. The SP cap was the biggest issue not for the vets but for new players from the shooter community who wanted to get into the game and that wall became a nearly impentrable barrier. Good MMO designs are the ones that doesnt seperate late game content from newer players in shooters. The key to keeping players as they reach those end games is a persistence that simply never existed and couldnt be sustained because you just couldnt get players to that point fast enough. It is the reason you will see an ebb and flow to PC over the next 2 months. You will see players and alliances leave and the ones to replace them will be the open beta players who started around march-april and commercial release players. |
Valkyrja Randgris
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Before I uninstalled I dedicated myself to AFKng, team killed around 12 madrugars / 8 gunlogis / 2 vayus, killed full squads of my own team by flying dropships into the redline twice, murder taxi, abused Mass Driver along flux grenades, hoped into an alt I haven't played spec'd into core flaylock in order to stomp went players in the academy (making 2 of the send hate mail and rage quit) and finally I just forged from a tower at anything that had a red tag.
The most rewarding day ever in Dust and lots of hate mail. |
First Prophet
Jaguar Empire
670
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Because we're all just a bunch of self entitled pricks with absolutely no patients.
WELCOME TO THE CONSOLE SIDE OF GAMING. Please dispose your tears in the blue pitcher
I'm not a doctor. Why would I have any patients? |
Konohamaru Sarutobi
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
512
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber, is that you? |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers
EoN.
588
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Reason for negativity... CCP has promised the most innovative game of the decade and delivered this. They constantly go back on their promise when it comes to having identical items on on AUR and ISK markets.
For most of it the negativity comes from us beta testing a game for over a year just to have CCP throw out all the testing we did and release a game that is completely different and for the most part inferior to the beta experience. CCP has continually shown that their priority in dust is to make a quick dollar over developing a game that will last over the long run, highlighted by their decision to release dust at a state that was hardly complete.
Long story short is CCP has continuously ignored the beta testers who provided feedback (prime example is the new plates that where recently released), and have filled the SP tree with filler skills that do absolutely nothing and increading the multipliers to ridiculous amounts. Beta tester have also warned CCP about the incredibly high barrier to entry faced by new players due to the slow grind and weekly caps which causes terrible new player retention.
TLD: CCP ignored beta testers and now have a game that has had a constant decline in active player base since release. Still no PVE and we can't even behave like mercenaries and take contracts. |
DRDEEZE TWO POINTO
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
21
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cause i like to abuse the **** out of them. |
Drevenger
DUST University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Info Broker wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:o-O I haven't given up chasing SP. I just leveled 2 all my suits, heavy weapons, and most of my lights, afterwards I plan on leveling up to 2 the side arms and vehicle command then going back for level 3. Mostly referencing Jenza and Nova who both were AFK'ing to the cap before taking the CPM positions. Just pointing out that vet burnout is a serious issue, and it's turning players off even those who are really dedicated to making dust better. New content and balance are both important, but I'm hoping to hear from the players themselves on why they don't enjoy playing dust matches if that is the case for them.
Because the thing went in last phase of beta for 4 months and did a few ninja nerfs here and there up untill uprising.
Then after two month being officially released the nerf hammer going left and right added to the new different broken mechanics. There is soooo much to do right now and when you look at relatively poor new contents for veteran player to play with, the maps, 16 vs 16, game modes, Eve, everything is a bit meh :\
Most believe this game should be in beta . At this point, i'm starting to think CCP will reset everything, i'm also looking at the MCC at the moment.
Did I answer your question?
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
153
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
"What's behind the increasing community negativity?"
Its more like an ebb and flow. Since most of the changes (or lack thereof) come across as negative we get these hate spike traffic in the forums. This can be a pretty decent place when we aren't yelling at each other question people's skill'z, sexuality, or intellect. CCP just needs to get out some good content so we can have something positive to talk about.
A positive mindset is a healthy thing to have but be careful with the Eve universe. As new game material trickles in people are going to find ways to abuse it. That's true in any game but especially so for anyone who has played Eve Online. |
Cygnus Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
110
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
It's just not a very good game but we all want it to be good... but people are getting too caught up in it and when the experience is crappy they feel robbed. ...but meh. Maybe it will get better.
Part of the deal is CCP keeps promising the stars, but delivering dog dookie. I think it would be wise to look back at some older games that were good and start there. Maybe Rainbow Six? I would love a "City Street Large" map... start with the basics and build from there. ...but what do I know?
I'm an EvE player, so I've learned some video game patience. I'm an EvE player, so I'm also a bit of a d-bag. In that context constructive criticism might look like negativity. If people didn't care they wouldn't play. ...yet here we are. For now. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
663
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Posted - 2013.07.19 05:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Info Broker wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:Because we're all just a bunch of self entitled pricks with absolutely no patients.
WELCOME TO THE CONSOLE SIDE OF GAMING. Please dispose your tears in the blue pitcher
I think there is a lot more to it than just saying console communities suck. Just trying to find out exactly why everyone is as bitter as they are on the forums.
We are getting exactly what we wanted and we have to have something to cry about because CCP owes us something because we were born. |
Calroon DeVil
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
93
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Posted - 2013.07.19 06:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's just that CCP keeps on disappointing over and over and over.
Bandaid fix for AWOXing (kicking only from the warbarge (LOL?)
Shield bandaid fix till propper bonuses are designed/ coded and deployed (2+months)
Rebalancing/ -inventing the game every 8 weeks.
Their already tiny team of newbies in Shanghai wasting time on bandaid fixes while yea, like Cygnus put it kindly, CCP promising the starts but delivering dog sh+Ąt. At some point people just realize what a giant turd this is. Same reason CCP doesn't dare to do any marketing. They know. |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc
Dark Taboo
1572
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Posted - 2013.07.19 15:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
calvin b wrote:I think I know the answer because vitamin G is not legal yet. If green was legal this would mellow some out. Just maybe,
We can't smoke away our problems forever; people have been trying to drink them away for more than two centuries with little success. |
steadyhand amarr
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
953
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Posted - 2013.07.19 15:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dust514 smashes player egos because of the social dynamics of it. These leads to people doing everything in their power to be the cool kids and then throw their toys out the pram when their shortsightedness kicks them in ass.
It will pass this fourm normall ebbs and flows based on how many egos are worried by balance passes :-P |
TEBOW BAGGINS
Greatness Achieved Through Training
EoN.
771
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Posted - 2013.07.19 15:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
it's all whine posts with no numbers posted to back anything on these forums,
just all circumstantial hearsay spewed all over the forums-
"i was killed by X fit and I'm a Z and that's not good in gaming, i've been PC gaming since (insert lame archaic 1990 FPS here) so X needs a nerf."
if you make a thread these days on anything like "well i am enjoying this new fit/style/etc." some angry vets come in and mock you positive reoutlook of something because they failed at it in the game before you and have already thrown in the towel = is all these posts are these days so it get's demoralizing and you just end up joining the pack of bitters in the end. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
2698
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 15:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Personally it's CCP's apparent policy of 2 step forwards 3 steps back, everytime they make a good change they always make a poor decision that makes the situation just as bad as before or in sone cases worse. Take dropships for example, they nade sone stay changes and introduced the ADS, this improved the situation for dropships, but they also implemented handling changes which really slowed dropships down, this wasn't really a huge issue till they implemented a 10% damage buff to all weapons, suddenly a minor issue which really didn't have a huge impact before beyond what you thought was nice was now a much more noticeable problem.
That damage buff and consequent HP buff is another issue, weapon damage was huffed across the board because the community felt that the TTK was too long, fair enough. The problem with it was that they applied it to the AV weapons as well, which until that point were fairly well balanced against dropships, that 10% buff took things back to chromosome levels of bad. And that HP buff, while the tank buff made perfect sense, the LAV buff was way too high, and for some reason dropships, already the most vulnerable vehicle was passed over completely, leaving dropships balanced against weapons that are 10% weaker than what we currently have.
And don't even get me started on the whole engineering skill fiasco, seriously who thought it would be a good idea to NERF all vehicles PG by 25%?
Add on the lack of communication from the vehicle team, are you surprised that vehicle users (and the rest of the community) are so unhappy?
That said the free LAV removal is a good sign, and the tidbits I've heard about 1.4 sound promising for vehicles, that said we've been here before, hoping on CCP is a very literal case of "Hope for the best, Expect the worse". |
DARK - IMPULSE
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
34
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Posted - 2013.07.19 18:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
It is simple:
The problem here is that CCP has a vision of what they want dust 514 to be and they don't want to listen to the community that has been shouting suggestions off for over a year now.
Let's look an example of this: The LAV dilemma. CCP solution: eliminate free lavs and increased the power of the murder taxis (they were called taxis because the color yellow= logistics, I explain it because some people still don't get it). The problem was basically the HP buff LAVs got in uprising. There are other Lav BP out there (you can buy them in a merc pack,  ), as long as people buy them the LAV problem won't stop.
The problem for me is the lack of attention to the little details of the game from the devs. AUR dropsuit were more powerful than the ISK variant (don't panic it was solved), OP weapons, OP dropsuits, LAVS stronger than tanks, hit detection and aiming problems, etc. Explosive weapons are ruling the battlefield a MD with a radius of 6m??? How am I suppose to avoid that I've had tried jumping to the side, backwards, forwards and I still get hit. I can avoid any other weapon by moving around, but not a MD shell. The flaylock has a higher splash damage than a MD. How can you let things like this go through? CCP. If CCP likes to slow develop a game and be so careful with the process things like that are just pure neglect. It seems to me that the devs didn't play/ test uprising enough and they appear to be just lazy. That is what it seems that CCP moves forward one step and 4 back with dust 514.
Uprising has been terrible in all senses. we have bushes now, but bullets don't register., aiming is not at its best. Invisible mercs. Spawned in the walls of the MCC or mid air and just die. Getting stuck in any possible structure in the maps. The same game modes for a year. No PvE. The dynamics of the game are just lame.
It is the first time I have AFK and to my surprise I got 174k isk in one game with zero war points, WTF???? What is the incentive for me to go out and fight if I am still going to make ISK. In that game I probably make more profit that the people that fought and died. The SP cap was created so players remain competitive, but the truth is the new guys would never ever catch us in sp amount because the sp cap is the same for everybody.
If the devs are too busy dealing with the development of the game and don't have enough time to play the game you got to, got to listen to the players that have spend hours, hours playing the game. In that sense, the game is not bad is just getting worst because it is moving back instead of moving ahead. How long the game is going to take the get in a good state???? I really don't know. In my opinion, this game needs a lot of work, a lot. And a lot means a good amount of time. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
EoN.
300
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Posted - 2013.07.19 18:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bring the Drones or something new. Save this game from dying... |
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