@Garrett Blacknova

Hence why I said also said that EVE is a DATED GAME. What it offers that no other game does seems to amount to RL work. But with out the RL pay. But we can go back and forth as to what really amounts to personal taste, so I'll keep my OP of eve to myself.

*on this thread at least*

anyway, At 12+mill sp. I could care less for a re spec. See I'm a RP, in FPS games. I usually stick to one role. My K/d is what I look at now, not sp. As my k/d goes up, so does my isk. and so does my awesomeness as a scout.


But I see nothing wrong in stopping others who want it. changing your load outs on the fly and being able to do it from the start keeps the battlefield changing. a staple to fps games. so you see why a fps player would be for it. so far it's "accept the pub stomp" cause no one in your whole team speced into a effective counter to the roving tanks. The should grind to everything and welcome to new eden doesn't compute. Dust players get the short end of the stick. If your going to tout that dust is part of the eve online, then really make it so.


Let dusters destroy eve ships. now... why you eve players shaking your head no?

This is also a pretty good argument for diversifying and speccing into a SECOND role, rather than using a respec to re-specializing into another, single, specific role.

While there might not happen to be a specialized AV guy on your squad to take out that roving tanks, one or two guys with the ability to swap to their AV secondary fits could be a viable alternative.

Dude, because that second role takes MONTHS of grind to get it to competitive level. That's why you don't see everyone with second roles unless it's a bitter vet with +15 million SP.

-XOXO

Yes, exactly. This is one of the most basic functions of the SP system. It's the reason why anybody can compete with the top SP players in one area with just a few months invested while at the same time the top SP player still has the advantage of versatility so that there's always more SP to profit from.

Respecs kill this concept and, if you ask me, the SP system with it because it's devolved into just a power grind. Just ask for a removal of the SP system because that's what this demand already implies.

I want one now. I'll gladly give you my money for a respec CCP. I have +10 million SP, there's no reason for me to buy boosters because I have a full class and weapon at max, and also a vehicle. I want a change of role, but for that I have to play the game for another 3 months to get the full class to max level (suit and weapon). I can't play this game anymore because I'm bored of my class. I don't feel like AFK farming either.

The option to buy respecs is necessary for high SP players who want to change class and keep having fun with the game without crippling themselves with inferior gear and months of grind for a new class. It doesn't matter if they use it for FOTM, doesn't matter if they made mistakes, doesn't matter if they have to live with the consequences. Consequences of what? Suck at the game? Get bored of doing the same thing over and over again?

If Dust was a true MMO where every decision you made was important then I would say no to respecs. Especially if they're were going to be used to abuse game mechanics or whatever. But right now they won't affect anything game-wise, only player experience and boredom.

-XOXO.

No to respecs. Look how many Caldari logibros want one now to switch to Caldari assault suit.

-Wyrm

why wont you just create another character with different weapons and suits. that's the point of 3 character slots

Top SP infantry players don't get much versatility right now (in fact, most of it is in the Dropsuit Upgrades tree if at all). It'd be nice if some level of versatility was a prerequisite to reach specialization.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the vehicle progression is a good example. All Madrugar and Vayu pilots can drive a Methana. They're in a good spot to diversify into LLAVs too, but aren't be able to do it as well as a dedicated LLAV pilot until they specialize into that role (in large part due to the bonus on the LLAV skill).

This builds versatility into specialization, and it gives 'paths of least resistance' for nerf victims to take, while they wait for the meta to come full circle.

Game is boring due to lack of content. +1 for respecs. Why grind for a new role when I'm already bored due to grinding for my current one?

Game is boring due to lack of content. +1 for respecs. Why grind for a new role when I'm already bored due to grinding for my current one?

Respecs won't change this. Even with a respec, the "lack of content" will still exist, and you'll still be bored.

You'll just be bored and carrying a different gun.

Better to address the actual problem (lack of content) than to implement an ineffective, band-aid work-around for a symptom (boredom), IMO.

This ^

No fear this,
<--------------

Will be released on September 17th 2013

I agree that the skilltree, especially its infantry portion scatters a little too much a little too early on. This limits the reusability of invested SP as any investment in, say, one weapon type is completely immaterial to the use of other weapon types.

We have to remember though, that the pre uprising tree offered a variety of blanket bonuses to whole weapon classes (light, heavy) and constituted too large of an advantage for high SP chars (the old Sharp Shooter skill comes to mind) so that specialization, as an alternative for generalization, was not exactly viable as core weaponry skills were a necessary part of every combat focused role.

I like the fact that currently one can focus his fit and skills in order to get competitive performance with a comparatively limited amount of skillpoints (core skills+weapon+other mods).

A balance has to be found between those two concepts in order to make them both viable with their respective ups and downs.

What's interesting and refreshing in your point is that it identifies a potential problem without defaulting to respecs as the ideal solution. I think that the most common causes for this need (bad information regarding skills/modules, bad balance, bad progression) could and should be adressed directly to solve the underlying issues in a future proof way, rather than mask their symptoms with a respec option. One that introduces a long tail of problems on its own.

For starters I'd like to see a layer of more general weapon skills that group similar types of weapons into categories so that, in the event of a balance overkill, one can revert to another functionally similar weapon without having to reinvest the full amount of SP.

For example: Light weapons could distinguish between "assault" "av" "precision" and "specialist" (the latter leaves room for improvement) weapons that each share some of the currently seperated support skills.

To offer a level of specialization, and to maintain the balance I would like to see, I propose a "[weapon type] specialization" skill, that unlocks the prototype level of said weapon, coupled with additional support skills, while the group skills only unlock the ADV variants of their weapon group and a generic set of passive skills.

[...]that the pre uprising tree offered a variety of blanket bonuses to whole weapon classes (light, heavy) and constituted too large of an advantage for high SP chars[...]

Dude i can't wait i stopped playing Dust cuz i got bored i can't respec and im not grinding anymore. I'm playing GTA IV complete edition getting ready for GTA V

Love how the EVEtards fight for this tooth and nail to stay out. IT should happen and there should be 1 free and 1 paid yearly.

But my decisions wont matter and this isnt hardcore enough for me boo hoo. Everyone will just spec into the FOTM and nobody will spec into anything that doesnt perform.

Thats why nobody specs into heavies or dropships or scout suits


I totally enjoy you fools keep shooting yourselves in the foot over this dumb game. I feel most bad for CCP their aim in bringing this game to console was to bring a new community into the EVE universe in the end they will be left with the same ones who play EVE, they were simply better off putting this thing on PC and saving themselves the headache.

Good job since your arrival post E3 EVEtards have systematically destroyed this game and are the direct reason for the pitiful numbers CCP has in terms of playercounts and reviews.

Round of applause and pat on the back

I think it'd be best to group things by race, then by size, and finally have a single specialization skill for a given item.

An example; to get into a Gallente Logistics suit:
Dropsuit Operation 1
Gallente Light Dropsuit Operation 3
Dropsuit Operation 3
Gallente Medium Dropsuit Operation 5
Gallente Logistics Dropsuits 1

Another example; this time for the Minmatar HMG:
Weaponry 1
Minmatar Sidearm Operation 3
Weaponry 3
Minmatar Light Weapon Operation 3
Weaponry 5
Minmatar Heavy Weapon Operation 1

This has a sense of progression within a given race, but the important part is that it inherently makes the player more nerf resistant than before; better able to cope with shifts in the meta game. When Logistics become undesirable for whatever reason, the player still has options, since getting to Logistics required investments in other areas. Much of the skill points to get there has not been "wasted", and the player can identify what his/her best course of action is.

And in the example above, each Operation skill unlocks access to ALL Minmatar STD meta sidearms at level 1, and at Level 5, specializations become unlocked (e.g. Minmatar SMG Specialization), which unlocks ADV at level 1 and PRO at level 3.

Currently, the 'path of least resistance' consists of the other role in your frame size. This remains true in the structure above, except it also adds all the other roles for all the other suits and weapons that you've already trained.

In other words: there is less feeling of starting over, more feelings of continued progression, if something doesn't work out at least getting there got you closer to something else you might want to try.

Cross training to a different race becomes a much more heavy choice too, especially for the bigger equipment.

One requirement for this to work right is that there needs to be bonuses on every single skill. They all need to be worth training to 5 at some point; and each level needs to feel like a worthy milestone. Basic suits need bonuses, for example.

Which brings me to blanket skills.

You mention:

But I would argue that the root of that problem lay in game mechanics. Sharpshooter gets demonized a lot, but it was really just the fact that it increased the range at which bullets magically disintegrated which was the issue. The fact that a newbie couldn't shoot back at a veteran because of a few meters of magic range. With the addition of Absolute range, sharpshooter could technically make a comeback, because that scenario just can't happen anymore.

Blanket skills only become problems when the mechanics they affect are weak enough to break under them; and in those cases, its the mechanics that need fixing.

And that's about all I have to say.

Love how the EVEtards fight for this tooth and nail to stay out. IT should happen and there should be 1 free and 1 paid yearly.

But my decisions wont matter and this isnt hardcore enough for me boo hoo. Everyone will just spec into the FOTM and nobody will spec into anything that doesnt perform.

Thats why nobody specs into heavies or dropships or scout suits


I totally enjoy you fools keep shooting yourselves in the foot over this dumb game. I feel most bad for CCP their aim in bringing this game to console was to bring a new community into the EVE universe in the end they will be left with the same ones who play EVE, they were simply better off putting this thing on PC and saving themselves the headache.

Good job since your arrival post E3 EVEtards have systematically destroyed this game and are the direct reason for the pitiful numbers CCP has in terms of playercounts and reviews.

Round of applause and pat on the back

Your pain is our pleasure.

You can thank us later.

You go on insulting other people while ignoring that we are actually discussing how to improve your gameplay experience aswell.

One thing i noticed in all those respec threads i was involved in is that the pro side more often than not seems wholly disinterested in solving the problems that lead to the respec thread in the first place. They'd rather abandon the thread or throw around with funny ad hominem remarks as soon as it becomes obvious that a respec might not be the best solution.

I was about to say this in my last post but then thought it would be inappropriate to do so. Thank you for giving me an excuse.

I want one now. I'll gladly give you my money for a respec CCP. I have +10 million SP, there's no reason for me to buy boosters because I have a full class and weapon at max, and also a vehicle. I want a change of role, but for that I have to play the game for another 3 months to get the full class to max level (suit and weapon). I can't play this game anymore because I'm bored of my class. I don't feel like AFK farming either.

The option to buy respecs is necessary for high SP players who want to change class and keep having fun with the game without crippling themselves with inferior gear and months of grind for a new class. It doesn't matter if they use it for FOTM, doesn't matter if they made mistakes, doesn't matter if they have to live with the consequences. Consequences of what? Suck at the game? Get bored of doing the same thing over and over again?

If Dust was a true MMO where every decision you made was important then I would say no to respecs. Especially if they're were going to be used to abuse game mechanics or whatever. But right now they won't affect anything game-wise, only player experience and boredom.

-XOXO.

You are welcome. And respecs have less to do with people wanting to get out of a rebalanced class or weapon and more about trying new things. If the content is designed for years worth of progression before having all the content availalble to use then it only makes sense that in between that time people would like the option of trying something new.

Now ive said this before if CCP has no interest in making this a monetary source for themselves (one that is far better than Boosters and would free them up to open up the SP gains) then to hell with them, people should just go ahead and make 10 free accounts and sit there for the year.

Better yet make a bunch of free accounts and subvert the whole system with RMT and get it into the hands of players despearte to try a new build. See thats what people dont get is its very easy for RMT for chracters.

I mean 1-2 years from now a person could have a character with 8-16M SP on passive alone and with direct player ISK transfer you can also set that character up with a boatload of ISK. Now you think a person cant easily sell that character off for $10-$20?

So yea lets all let people resort to creating a host of free characters because that wont create any problems at all

You "try" things by using STD or MLT (where applicable). The "must V for pub" is a fallacy that will become apparent once a comprehensive matchmaking system is in place.

The money argument is also meh. A respec option would mean that, once you can max one role, you will never again need boosters unless your new preferred role requires significantly more SP. You cannibalize one revenue stream with another. Net gain: Zero - negative in the long run since boosters become less and less viable the more SP you have.

And the RMT problem is one i expect CCP to be able to cope with one way or another. The introduction of PLEX and the character bazaar pretty much killed most RMT operation EVE side so i'll let them handle this one aswell.