Shotguns are a weapon that shoot at 85.7 shots per minute, fastest mass driver is 75. No mass driver has the ability to kill an opponent with splash damage in one shot. If you aren't using the shotgun to get behind your opponent and blap him for full damage which is fairly easy with scout suits, then the weapon is being used incorrectly. Strafing speed of these suits even at militia level is beyond the need to make your opponent miss repeatedly while you use your spread to kill or injure him and GTFO. So no, you don't only have one shot to kill a guy and the strategy is not fubared by one single mistake.

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Sniper rifles are in a little cozy nest and need not worry about most half the things a mass driver user has to worry about. As for the scrambler rifle, he has options. Either use his charge shot or is assault capabilities of rapid fire. The user is the one that chooses in which way to manage his weapon and his overheat prevention strategy.

The second point about the statement above is: Rapid shots on a mass driver? I don't know what mass driver you have been against but mass driver are less than rapid. For those less than willing to actually look up the stats of weapons before raging against any post made to defend the mass driver, I have some numbers for you.

Example

militia assault 750 shots per minute = 10 shots for every 1 shot of the ec-3 assault mass driver (75 shots per minute fastest mass driver and is advanced compared to militia) mass driver damage done = 73 max 93 with damage mods / militia assault rifle damage done without damage mods = 350.

Militia assault rifle vs exo-5 (60 rounds per minute advanced) mass driver = 1 mass driver round per every 12 militia assault rifle rounds. Total damage of the mass driver is 121 max 150 with 1 damage mod and spec / militia assault rifle damage no mods or

As you can see even if half the shots of a militia assaut rifle hits the target they are still hitting for either more or the same damage as advanced tier mass drivers with a damage mod and proficiency.

As for killing him and his buddies, I already posted something about that on my last post.

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In relation to lining up shots; don't talk to me about lining up shots when your spraying. As stated in the above defense, even if only half the bullets on the militia assault rifle ( no mods or spec) hit the target they are still outdoing or matching the damage of an advanced tier mass driver with damage mods and proficiency into it.

And a simple FYI. Mass driver users have to line up shots. Some of them are very tricky in fact if you ever try killing someone thats above you. If someone is far away you have to compensate the arc and lead the target (shoot in front to be able to cause damage) If he is on level ground and going 1 vs 1 we have to take care in cooking our grenades ( no other weapon NEEDS this).

I'll add more. We have to be even more careful with our shots because more times than not we find ourselves without any ammo. Assault rifle users on the other hand have 300 rounds minimum for a total of 10,200 damage in the the gun unspecced and unmodded. The potential damage of a mass driver, focusing on splash, is 2,700 damage (taking into account it being an advanced weapon 1 complex damage mod and level 3 proficiency rounded). Even if we where to only count direct hits, which are rare indeed, would only be 5,303. So I still don't know what all the fuss is about.

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If saying all that made you feel good. I urge you to read the last two sentences of my last post so you understand that you dont have to play this game if you don't like the mechanics and are a worthless shot.

Stop playing? Lol I played CoD so a little noob tube is not gonna make me put down the game that easy
My feelings aren't going to change, EVER! so there's no point in trying to convince me otherwise.
I'm not delusional in the fact that you are the same so continuing this argument would be a serous waste of time for the both of us, right?
With that being said I'm gonna walk away with the fact that MD has an advantage over anyone! That's how I feel, that's my opinion. I'm sick of wasting the other player's time with walls of text. Good day and good luck in you future endeavors. (Still feels good )

So after spending the entire weekend on one of my alts (Minmatar Assault) with dual flaylocks, Flaylock/AR, Flaylock/SMG, I have some thoughts to share. The idea of an alpha strike sidearm is interesting and creative, making the flaylock a fun to use weapon. If balanced properly, the flaylock should be at least powerful enough to be considered as a main weapon but with enough drawbacks to add some risk to the rewards of getting a kill with it. As of right now, we have a highly damaging weapon that's easy to fit, has plenty of ammo, and can be spammed for ungodly amounts of DPS. Personally, the damage and blast radius are fine, but it's the lenient fitting, high ammo capacity, and how easy you can spam shots that make the flaylock a problem:



Overall, the CPU/PG requirements have to be raised so everyone and the mother can't equip it and go buck wild. I'm thinking we make the costs significantly higher while taking a page from the specialist shotgun sub variant with more lenient requirements for the specialist pistols at the cost of ammunition capacity. (9~12 rounds) This way, you get a variant that's easier to equip, but doesn't have enough ammo to go around spamming while the standard ones have a decent ammo supply but require more CPU/PG so they have to give something up to fit it. This would be a good way to diminish a dual flaylock user's ammo capacity since they wouldn't be able to fit dual prototypes as well. The breach could probably benifit from a revamp as well, with a CPU/PG requirement similar to the specialists, but a splash or damage buff to make it more viable at the cost of the smaller clip.

Splash radius scaling is another issue that might need to be addressed since explosive weapons are more consistent in the the latest patch and the desynch issues are completely gone. But keep in mind that if the splash damage is reduced, damage might need to be increased across the board to compensate to keep the reward side of risk vs reward consistent while keeping the flaylock viable.



As I've already mentioned, it's not the damage that makes the flaylock imbalanced- it's the spam. So one good option would be to simply reduce the weapons RoF. (somewhere in the neighborhood of 60~70 rpm) This would cut down the rocket spam significantly, allowing someone on the opposing end to have a chance to fight back while forcing the user to aim. The flaylock already has a slower moving projectile compared to DoT based weapons, so this would force the user to make those shots matter more in an encounter instead of lobbing missiles in someone's general direction, hoping for a kill. Reload speed and ammunition capacity can remain untouched, but the damage might need a slight increase to keep with the weapons spike damage theme, keeping it more viable in CQC/Close engagements while requiring skill at mid range and beyond. Making this change would also significantly affect people using dual flaylocks as well since the advantage of having two of them is significantly reduced.

Another option to prevent spamming would be to reduce the ammunition capacity. One of things that keeps the MD balanced is that it has terrible field longevity. With 18 rounds (24 for the assault) you have to really choose your engagements with the MD while either staying in proximity of a supply depot or keeping a steady supply of nanohives. With 21 shots in reserve, the flaylock doesn't have this problem and has field longevity comparable to a riskier spike damage weapons like the shotgun. Reducing the reserve ammo down to maybe 12~9 rounds (9~6 for the specialist) would force a flaylock user to carefully choose when to engage and make nanohives a requirement when using it as a main weapon. Damage and splash could stay relatively same with this option because the weapon would be significantly starved, cutting down its field longevity. This wouldn't affect dual users as much at a glance, but with my idea of increasing the CPU/PG requirements as mentioned above, they would most likely be restricted to dual specialists anyway.

Reducing the reload speed could be another route. As of right now, the flaylock has a 0.5 sec faster reload speed than an AR. For as much damage as it does, there's no real risk in spamming rockets since you can simply pop in another clip in 2.5 seconds. By increasing how fast you need to reload would be a good way to give someone on the opposing end a chance to fight back and force the weapons' user have to make sure those 3-4 rockets connect. Now with this idea, we have to consider how it would affect players using dual flaylocks. So making significant changes to rate of fire or ammo capacity would still need to be considered as well. This is still a viable option, but would require the most work in the long run compared to the others.

These are only a few options I have in regards to spamming. I have some more in regards to splash damage and falloff. I'll probably get around to it after some more testing. But whatever changes CCP makes, I hope they keep it as a highly damaging weapon, but make it riskier to use outside of its niche situation because it really is a fun to use weapon.

Subjected to periodical edits for grammar.

Stop playing? Lol I played CoD

Flaylock pistols should be removed.

Mass drivers need to be re balanced.

Meh If I can get over it then so can you.... half a week ago I was at that point too.... these guns need no nerf Armour needs its goddamned buff!

Buff Armor? eh.. I suppose that could work.

That says it all.. Everything you have said is now invalid...

THIS IS NOT CoD.. it requires skill here.. Unlike Crap on Disc.

1. I never said this is CoD. I merely referenced the fact that grenade launchers are OP and overused in some CoD games. They are deemed an even bigger nuisance then the MD in DUST.
2. In CoD the person with the most skill will win in a 1v1 encounter. In DUST it's the person with the best gear.
3. I take it your the type of player that would go 0-30 right? lol yea don't deny it.

The only REAL problem with CoD is the people that attempt to exploit every part of the game to get an edge. The game it self is actually really good.
I came to DUST to get away from those types of players... Sucks that it seems they are everywhere.

shudda up. MD and FL are not op. I barely hit anyone with it and when I do it chips them. SO shuda up with dat sht.

and the award for worst gamer ever goes to....

Flaylocks are fine the way they are there made to compete with heavys and caldari logis CCP should sto nerfing and start implementing and buffing wepons cause there making it super hard to use half the gun anyone seee a plasma cannon in use with a team of laser rifles with him?

Flaylocks are fine the way they are there made to compete with heavys and caldari logis CCP should sto nerfing and start implementing and buffing wepons cause there making it super hard to use half the gun anyone seee a plasma cannon in use with a team of laser rifles with him?

um... yea you have a point actually. Plasmas are so rare to see. I think I seen like 3 maybe 4 players using them this month. About 6 since I've been playing. Those things must be seriously UP.

Flaylocks are fine the way they are there made to compete with heavys and caldari logis CCP should sto nerfing and start implementing and buffing wepons cause there making it super hard to use half the gun anyone seee a plasma cannon in use with a team of laser rifles with him?

I suppose if you compare the two (plasma and swarm) the plasma would be something players would be more familiar with. And this would also mean that you would have to spec into av(for the swarm) in order to really be effective.

Exactly!

I''m pretty sure people neglected swarm launchers because they weren't dumb fire and never specced into them. So you wind up with players using 3 fittings, all ARs and almost 0 incentive to use something different. Even inexperienced FPS players who like New Eden deserve a krutch. Essentially, the plasma cannon is a rocket launcher, a poorly designed, difficult to use rocket launcher. I'd say make the shots fire straight, slightly faster, get rid of the charging mechanic, and make the operation skill pertain to damage or radius, while creating a militia variant for starter fits. Instant n00b tube.

Idea for starter Fits

Caldari Starters
Frontline Rail Rifle+Bolt Pistol+Nanohive
Medic same as Frontline but with injector and Magsec SMG
AV Swarms+Bolt Pistol
Specialty Fit Sniper Rifle+Magsec SMG

Gallente Starters
Frontline Blaster Rifle + Ion Pistol + Active Scanner
Medic Same as Frontline with injector
AV Plasma Cannon + Ion Pistol
Specialty Fit Shotgun + Ion Pistol

Amarr Starters
Frontline Scrambler Rifle+Bolt Pistol+Drop Pads
Medic same as Frontline but with injector and Scrambler Pistol
AV Amarr light AV weapon +Scrambler Pistol
Specialty Fit Laser Rifle + Scrambler Pistol

Minnie Starters
Frontline Combat Rifle+ Flaylock + RE
Medic same as Frontline but with injector and SMG
AV Minnie AV weapon +SMG
Specialty Fit Mass Driver+SMG

All Militia Variants

Mlt Plasma Cannon will have current Plasma Cannon all other PLC's will have greater Direct damage
Mlt Active Scanner will have have longer cooldown time
Mlt Sc Rifle will have higher heat cost per shot
Mlt Laser Rifle will have longer cooldown speed
Mlt RE's can have 1 RE at a time
Mlt Flaylock will have 2 shots per mag and 10 total shots
Mlt MD will have 4 shots per mag and the 3 meter AoE

Make a new thread about this.

Do it.

Please?

Yeah 1 second

The first person in the history of shooters to have trouble hitting something with a grenade launcher

Okay so its me then? I have two flaylock pistols and I switch to them after 3 shots for a total of 6. AND I STILL MISS! Not miss like oh its over his head. I mean miss like I shot the ground next to him and his life is untouched. ALSO. I am NOT the worse gamer ever. That is just bullsht to assume because I have an issue with a game that many ppl have an issue with that I am simply bad. IF anything. I am simply a victim of bad game design.

They are op the proof is when one side is a squad running Massdriver's and flaylock's and they destroy the other team. In ambush how many have lost and seen the other side have 40+ clones left due to this. Or you were in a skirmish and you could not take the objective because there was a squad sitting there spamming madddrivers and flaylocks while tossing contact nades. If you say very little its because you either do not play enough or your the side doing it. How can you take any objective if they are spamming every inch of the ground with explosives its impossible. The only thing that stops this is an orbital strike. This is madness, the only solution is to sit up on the hill and play sniper all day. No thank you.