What you guys need to remember is that this game is not COD or battlefield. Every kill puts a dent in someone's wallet. If the redline is removed, people will stop spawning and/or go afk because they don't want to lose a lot of ISK from spawn campers. And sure, ending the game if no one spawns for 5 minutes might fix that. But would anyone want to stand around for 5 minutes waiting for the game to end be any fun at all? Being redlined is a pain as it is. It's be even worse if the redline was completely removed.

Also, If you find yourself dying at the hands of a redline sniper, snipe him back. Rail tank in their redzone? Whip out a forge gun. A militia forge gun fit costs 3,000 ISK. Hardly Expensive.

The redline makes the game more tactical. Again, its not a happy go lucky run and gun game like COD. This is a tactical game. Think of a way around your problems. Don't just moan about your problems and hope someone at CCP sympathises.

What you guys need to remember is that this game is not COD or battlefield. Every kill puts a dent in someone's wallet. If the redline is removed, people will stop spawning and/or go afk because they don't want to lose a lot of ISK from spawn campers. And sure, ending the game if no one spawns for 5 minutes might fix that. But would anyone want to stand around for 5 minutes waiting for the game to end be any fun at all? Being redlined is a pain as it is. It's be even worse if the redline was completely removed.

Also, If you find yourself dying at the hands of a redline sniper, snipe him back. Rail tank in their redzone? Whip out a forge gun. A militia forge gun fit costs 3,000 ISK. Hardly Expensive.

The redline makes the game more tactical. Again, its not a happy go lucky run and gun game like COD. This is a tactical game. Think of a way around your problems. Don't just moan about your problems and hope someone at CCP sympathises.

To be honest here, I don't really have anything against the redline nor do I have any favoritism towards it. It is just an arbitrary line we just can't cross without dying that is only meant to keep the action in one restricted area.

I'm on the side of those in favor of the redline in terms of public matches.

I'm also on the side of those againstt tthe redline in terms of allowing players feedom to move about and chase those who annoy them the most but only remove them for Factional Warfare and Planetary Conquest battles.

This way, players will be given more options on what kind of match they like to go into. Imagine being able to choose between Skirmish (redline) and Skirmish (no redline) or Domination (redline) and Domination (no redline). Ambush and Ambush OMS should keep their redline for the sake of keeping the fights contained and since Ambush matches are meant to be just quick matches after all.

Removing the redline for factional warfare and PC battles eliminates the ability of the enemy to hide behind and arbitrary line since now the opposing side can chase them anywhere in the map.

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I am not talking about removing just the redline that protects the spawn area.

I'm talking about removing the ENTIRE redline that surrounds the entire terrain altogether. This way, vehicles will be given much greater purpose and many more options will be made available to the players.

Again, removing the entire redline area of the terrain should be limited to just factional warfare and planetary conquest battles.

Sure, that makes sense in theory, but if those in the red line potentially out class the opposing team, then you are also losing isk and SP by losing the match and not receiving potential WP's because you were unable to reach the target - going into the red line kills you, so you too are also losing ISK by dying but you'r'e being killed by a mechanic you have no control over. It's like when you're faced with burning alive in a building or jumping out a 10 story window, hoping you might survive. Sort of. Except the fire is the tank and the red line is the concrete.

I agree that spawn camping can be costly but by that point, every player should be minimizing their loss by suiting into a cheaper suit if worse comes to worse. The red line is punishing players who are on the opposite side of it when an opposing force is leveraging it in their favor. For many, it's a lose/lose situation. So, instead we should focus on giving players tools and terrain that they can use to their advantage, with a single spawn point for each team on every map for each appropriate game that allows them a more than reasonable chance at avoiding a complete camp.

What are your options?

1) You can attempt to tactically take out the target without going into the red line but this can be problematic if they're stacking rep users on a tank or snipers who are simply respawning if you kill them.

2) You quit the match. You lose ISK and SP.

3) You AFK the match instead of dying. You miss out on the fun of playing the game but gain your SP and ISK.

Either way, the red line is more psychologically damaging than anything else. When it's mechanically leveraged to take out other players, it makes the game less fun and less engaging. It's not being used only when a team has been pushed back or are being spawn camped, it's being used as a weapon.

You're making it out as if the people that have dominated and forced the opposition to a small position of the map are being penalised in some way. They've pretty much sealed the win. Its just there to make sure people being dominated don't completely lose heart and quit the match.

lso, you keep sniping the snipers and they will change their fit.
No tank can face up to 3 or 4 forge gunners no matter how many reppers it has.

And if the 'better' team are somehow being redlined, they should be able find a way around and flank the opposition. Maybe send a lone scout around the edge of the map with a drop uplink or to hack an objective at the other end of the field. Draw the attention away from the redline. If they cant do that they obviously aren't the better team.

Like i said... the battles will finish faster... what is wrong with that ?

Snipers are ment 5o hide in the hills or what is the point in a long range gun and we r ment to be hidden otherwise we would be found to easily

So stupid people can miss-use them or so skilled-teams can run rampshod over less fortunate teams.

I've personally led teams who destroyed and captured all CRUs and have taken out any and all droplinks, this still happens and we all witness teams being "redlined" in skirmish on a daily basis, CRUs and Droplinks do not magically solve this.

Current Redline mechanics help the redlined team break out, removing that would end in a slaughterfest.

I'm surprised I have to explain a dailey occurrence to you.

People looking to remove the redline generally don't like snipers... particularly redline snipers.

Snipers are ment 5o hide in the hills or what is the point in a long range gun and we r ment to be hidden otherwise we would be found to easily

redline snipers just skurred that peeps gonna find out they got no skrillz

Tanks hide because its becoming the only way to escape the rapidly increasing AV.

Sniping is an artform and does need skill u try and get 5-10 kills like most ar users do without getting found or spotted and stay out the redline

It's rare to find a good sniper. Anyone can learn to shoot and kill mercs to varying degrees of success with a sniper rifle but it's the snipers that move after every kill or two, or who know which mercs to take down and when to take down, that can change the battle. It's kind of silly whenever the guy is posted up in the same spot the entire time.

Also pre warning squads of incoming people or vehicles telling which way to run, I dont give a **** bout my kdr I just love the satisfaction of headshotting a person across the map which dispite what some people say its bloody difficult at times especially if its a scout.

Hah. I actually ran into a newb last night during a match, his first real day of playing, and that's exactly what he was doing. He was getting wrecked so he decided to try out sniping, which turned into him becoming recon for the squad as he moved around the map watching movement. Worked out pretty well.

See sniper haters we can be useful

The redline should only be around the mcc and the mcc should be somewhat mobile in order to shift spawn locations, but not be able to fly right over the installation. Light null cannons should also be deployable like in the carbon build and require the use of a generator. It would make for a more interesting moba/rts type of gameplay.

It's rare to find a good sniper. Anyone can learn to shoot and kill mercs to varying degrees of success with a sniper rifle but it's the snipers that move after every kill or two, or who know which mercs to take down and when to take down, that can change the battle. It's kind of silly whenever the guy is posted up in the same spot the entire time.