DUST Search - Red line needs to go

Zero Notion wrote:

Sure, that makes sense in theory, but if those in the red line potentially out class the opposing team, then you are also losing isk and SP by losing the match and not receiving potential WP's because you were unable to reach the target - going into the red line kills you, so you too are also losing ISK by dying but you'r'e being killed by a mechanic you have no control over. It's like when you're faced with burning alive in a building or jumping out a 10 story window, hoping you might survive. Sort of. Except the fire is the tank and the red line is the concrete.

I agree that spawn camping can be costly but by that point, every player should be minimizing their loss by suiting into a cheaper suit if worse comes to worse. The red line is punishing players who are on the opposite side of it when an opposing force is leveraging it in their favor. For many, it's a lose/lose situation. So, instead we should focus on giving players tools and terrain that they can use to their advantage, with a single spawn point for each team on every map for each appropriate game that allows them a more than reasonable chance at avoiding a complete camp.

What are your options?

1) You can attempt to tactically take out the target without going into the red line but this can be problematic if they're stacking rep users on a tank or snipers who are simply respawning if you kill them.

2) You quit the match. You lose ISK and SP.

3) You AFK the match instead of dying. You miss out on the fun of playing the game but gain your SP and ISK.

Either way, the red line is more psychologically damaging than anything else. When it's mechanically leveraged to take out other players, it makes the game less fun and less engaging. It's not being used only when a team has been pushed back or are being spawn camped, it's being used as a weapon.


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Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 19:19:00 - [1] - Quote What you guys need to remember is that this game is not COD or battlefield. Every kill puts a dent in someone's wallet. If the redline is removed, people will stop spawning and/or go afk because they don't want to lose a lot of ISK from spawn campers. And sure, ending the game if no one spawns for 5 minutes might fix that. But would anyone want to stand around for 5 minutes waiting for the game to end be any fun at all? Being redlined is a pain as it is. It's be even worse if the redline was completely removed. Also, If you find yourself dying at the hands of a redline sniper, snipe him back. Rail tank in their redzone? Whip out a forge gun. A militia forge gun fit costs 3,000 ISK. Hardly Expensive. The redline makes the game more tactical. Again, its not a happy go lucky run and gun game like COD. This is a tactical game. Think of a way around your problems. Don't just moan about your problems and hope someone at CCP sympathises.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: Sure, that makes sense in theory, but if those in the red line potentially out class the opposing team, then you are also losing isk and SP by losing the match and not receiving potential WP's because you were unable to reach the target - going into the red line kills you, so you too are also losing ISK by dying but you'r'e being killed by a mechanic you have no control over. It's like when you're faced with burning alive in a building or jumping out a 10 story window, hoping you might survive. Sort of. Except the fire is the tank and the red line is the concrete. I agree that spawn camping can be costly but by that point, every player should be minimizing their loss by suiting into a cheaper suit if worse comes to worse. The red line is punishing players who are on the opposite side of it when an opposing force is leveraging it in their favor. For many, it's a lose/lose situation. So, instead we should focus on giving players tools and terrain that they can use to their advantage, with a single spawn point for each team on every map for each appropriate game that allows them a more than reasonable chance at avoiding a complete camp. What are your options? 1) You can attempt to tactically take out the target without going into the red line but this can be problematic if they're stacking rep users on a tank or snipers who are simply respawning if you kill them. 2) You quit the match. You lose ISK and SP. 3) You AFK the match instead of dying. You miss out on the fun of playing the game but gain your SP and ISK. Either way, the red line is more psychologically damaging than anything else. When it's mechanically leveraged to take out other players, it makes the game less fun and less engaging. It's not being used only when a team has been pushed back or are being spawn camped, it's being used as a weapon. You're making it out as if the people that have dominated and forced the opposition to a small position of the map are being penalised in some way. They've pretty much sealed the win. Its just there to make sure people being dominated don't completely lose heart and quit the match. Also, you keep sniping the snipers and they will change their fit. No tank can face up to 3 or 4 forge gunners no matter how many reppers it has. And if the 'better' team are somehow being redlined, they should be able find a way around and flank the opposition. Maybe send a lone scout around the edge of the map with a drop uplink or to hack an objective at the other end of the field. Draw the attention away from the redline. If they cant do that they obviously aren't the better team. What would fix this problem is a better matchmaking system. More balanced teams would mean less dominating and, ultimately, less redlining. But there are plenty of requests for better matchmaking, so I'm not going to go into that here.