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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2098
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I got rage mail after dominating a match.
Title:" THIS GAME SUX BALLS" Message:"Y AM I ALWAYS V PPL WITH PROTO GEAR WHEN I HAVE 1M SP. THNX 2 PPL LIKE YOU I NEVER WANT TO PLAY THIS UNBALANCED **** OF A GAME AGAIN"
Although it made me laugh at first, but then I thought about it. Imagine how many more players are there just like him that just quit? This is a serious problem CCP, get that matchmaking going, and get it going fast, because the longer you delay that part the more players you will lose that will never look back.
Or maybe make a temporary game mode for Militia only while you do it. Or maybe keep them in academy longer, but instead of random matches let them choose different academy game modes.
You can say "HTFU" all you want but most players will just leave after playing 15 matches in a row against two proto squads who completely dominated them, and YOU DON'T want that for the game. Even EVE isn't this bad as you can avoid PvP for a while.
I feel bad for them. I invited that guy to my help channel, offering to squad up with him. I will see if I can change his mind. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
294
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
To preface, I've had a bit of a struggle really finding a niche in this game I wanted to pursue and ended up going through a good chunk of characters. The most I've ever had was around 6 million SP, and if I stuck with a single toon from the start I'd have around 11 million SP now, but instead I roll with this guy who is just about to hit 3 million SP. I started him around a week after the "official release" so proto users weren't exactly a rarity at that time. Yes it was a bit of an upward battle but I never felt overly intimidated by any enemy fits I came across. Maybe it's because despite my low SP I have quite a bit of experience, but I don't believe the disparity between new players and old players is all that bad, at least not enough to make someone quit. If they are quitting, I truly believe it is for other reasons. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
308
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
i still wonder how i got through my first couple months in chromosome....oh, wait, nobody had the blacksuits until i had a gunlogi with 3 damage mods and a particle accelerator so it didnt matter. hahaha.
it really isnt fair. it's like throwing a new capsuleer into null sec with a civilian autocannon and saying: "good luck". |
steadyhand amarr
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
790
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Keep saying simples fix is lock gear by game mode instant battles. T1 fw t2 pc anything goes people can't mone about gear then |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
970
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:i still wonder how i got through my first couple months in chromosome....oh, wait, nobody had the blacksuits until i had a gunlogi with 3 damage mods and a particle accelerator so it didnt matter. hahaha.
it really isnt fair. it's like throwing a new capsuleer into null sec with a civilian autocannon and saying: "good luck". So what my corp does for a few laughs? |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY
398
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
When I joined last year this game was just as unforgiving to new players as it is now . That being said most people who stareded playing a year ago stuck it out simply because we were beta testing. Now new players get the acadamy it puts them into a false sense of security and when they graduate lol they just get stomped. I acctivly order my mercs in the shadows not to proto stomp for many reasons.
1 it will improve their gun game if they run std or adv gear
2 I dont want my corp to be seen as a bunch of proto pub stomping gits that know full well how bad the match making is.
3 its cheeper and more sustainable.
The list goes on.
Im not hear telling folks not to run proto but when your stacking squads and fighting a bunch of randoms in your proto gear it makes you look like a pussssy . Iv heard many proto stompers claim they do just as well in mlt/std/adv gear so I say why dont you , I know its because their lack of skill is caried by their equpiment.
I love getti g hate mail from proto derps that iv dispatched with either my std toxin smg or std nova knives on a std minja scout suit. Calling me skill less for spray and praying and stabbing like a noob lol. I gues my point is save your proto gear for when you come up against proto stompers otherwise you look like a cowardly pussssssssy. Rant over. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2100
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:When I joined last year this game was just as unforgiving to new players as it is now . That being said most people who stareded playing a year ago stuck it out simply because we were beta testing. Now new players get the acadamy it puts them into a false sense of security and when they graduate lol they just get stomped. I acctivly order my mercs in the shadows not to proto stomp for many reasons.
1 it will improve their gun game if they run std or adv gear
2 I dont want my corp to be seen as a bunch of proto pub stomping gits that know full well how bad the match making is.
3 its cheeper and more sustainable.
The list goes on.
Im not hear telling folks not to run proto but when your stacking squads and fighting a bunch of randoms in your proto gear it makes you look like a pussssy . Iv heard many proto stompers claim they do just as well in mlt/std/adv gear so I say why dont you , I know its because their lack of skill is caried by their equpiment.
I love getti g hate mail from proto derps that iv dispatched with either my std toxin smg or std nova knives on a std minja scout suit. Calling me skill less for spray and praying and stabbing like a noob lol. I gues my point is save your proto gear for when you come up against proto stompers otherwise you look like a cowardly pussssssssy. Rant over. TBH there was a huge influx of money since the beta, most of us have so much there is no point in NOT going proto. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
295
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 09:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Keep saying simples fix is lock gear by game mode instant battles. T1 fw t2 pc anything goes people can't mone about gear then Once upon a time I believed this as well, but now I believe it would just create more problems. Dust 514 is New Eden, there is no segregation. Sure have a battle academy just long enough for players to learn the controls and mechanics, but after that they must be welcomed to the world. If you create more tiers of instant battles you simply create this loop where you feel you are at the top then a couple upgrades later you are back at the bottom because you moved to the next collection of players.
Though this comes from the guy who believes the disparity between new and old players is not as great as it seems. |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN.
265
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Start new player's with 500k SP as it is now, possibly extend time in Academy to 25k WP. Also here's what will really help, upon graduation from academy player's would be awarded 1mill SP (by 25k WP player's should have a good idea of where they want to focus their build) this would help them be a bit more competitive right out of academy. Beyond that they should perhaps be allowed 2x weekly SP cap until 5mill SP. At which point they would drop to the normal cap and be given the option of a ONE TIME ONLY respec. To rectify any potential noob mistakes from the quickly incoming SP.
I personally think this would really help the New player experience and therefore player retention. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
83
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Again, why doesn't anyone listen to me? |
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
971
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Keep saying simples fix is lock gear by game mode instant battles. T1 fw t2 pc anything goes people can't mone about gear then Once upon a time I believed this as well, but now I believe it would just create more problems. Dust 514 is New Eden, there is no segregation. Sure have a battle academy just long enough for players to learn the controls and mechanics, but after that they must be welcomed to the world. If you create more tiers of instant battles you simply create this loop where you feel you are at the top then a couple upgrades later you are back at the bottom because you moved to the next collection of players. Though this comes from the guy who believes the disparity between new and old players is not as great as it seems. Actually there's quite a bit of segregation, not only do you have capitals restricted from high sec, but you also have bombs which can't even be used in low sec, and don't forget about jump bridges which can only be anchored in sovereignty. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2100
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Another Heavy SOB wrote:Start new player's with 500k SP as it is now, possibly extend time in Academy to 25k WP. Also here's what will really help, upon graduation from academy player's would be awarded 1mill SP (by 25k WP player's should have a good idea of where they want to focus their build) this would help them be a bit more competitive right out of academy. Beyond that they should perhaps be allowed 2x weekly SP cap until 5mill SP. At which point they would drop to the normal cap and be given the option of a ONE TIME ONLY respec. To rectify any potential noob mistakes from the quickly incoming SP.
I personally think this would really help the New player experience and therefore player retention. Great idea! Make a thread about it. |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY
401
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:attention attention I need attention..........look look look .........prod poke ...look look .
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The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
541
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
With a few exceptions this is the norm for any fps that has more than amount under its belt. If I tried to play TLOU, Uncharted, COD Battlefield or any other shooter I would be slaughtered repeatedly. Top players dominate any play who isn't in the top 10%. That's why they are the best.
The new players need to understand that this isn't a normal shooter and team work is almost required. Practice with the weapons and suit fittings is very important and our "bitter vets" should be more active in new player training. I do agree that it is a tough uphill battle for new players, but only for about a month. This game isn't that hard I'd people stick with it.
With the amount of players regularly online match making will never work. We need battles that are segregated by sec status. Each level of security should limit the suits and gear allowed on the field. Mercs should be able to choose the difficulty of their fight by the security status of the system. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2105
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:With a few exceptions this is the norm for any fps that has more than amount under its belt. If I tried to play TLOU, Uncharted, COD Battlefield or any other shooter I would be slaughtered repeatedly. Top players dominate any play who isn't in the top 10%. That's why they are the best.
The new players need to understand that this isn't a normal shooter and team work is almost required. Practice with the weapons and suit fittings is very important and our "bitter vets" should be more active in new player training. I do agree that it is a tough uphill battle for new players, but only for about a month. This game isn't that hard I'd people stick with it.
With the amount of players regularly online match making will never work. We need battles that are segregated by sec status. Each level of security should limit the suits and gear allowed on the field. Mercs should be able to choose the difficulty of their fight by the security status of the system. The games you speak of don't unlock better weapons, they unlock different weapons (Example being High fire rate low damage vs low damage and High fire rate). That's the difference. |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN.
267
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:Start new player's with 500k SP as it is now, possibly extend time in Academy to 25k WP. Also here's what will really help, upon graduation from academy player's would be awarded 1mill SP (by 25k WP player's should have a good idea of where they want to focus their build) this would help them be a bit more competitive right out of academy. Beyond that they should perhaps be allowed 2x weekly SP cap until 5mill SP. At which point they would drop to the normal cap and be given the option of a ONE TIME ONLY respec. To rectify any potential noob mistakes from the quickly incoming SP.
I personally think this would really help the New player experience and therefore player retention. Great idea! Make a thread about it.
Thanks for the encouragement, I had been considering starting a thread about it but had assumed it would be mostly flaming and trolling. Hopefully it will start a decent discussion and refinement of the idea. |
Dust Project 514
Dust Evo 514
120
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't.
I feel bad for CCP, cause their lack of a good matchmaking system hurts them, even more. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
298
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tell me, if I only had advanced level gear and matchmaking put me only against those with advanced level gear, why would I want to get prototype? It would be the same exact thing several weeks of grinding later. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
70
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Keep saying simples fix is lock gear by game mode instant battles. T1 fw t2 pc anything goes people can't mone about gear then Once upon a time I believed this as well, but now I believe it would just create more problems. Dust 514 is New Eden, there is no segregation. Sure have a battle academy just long enough for players to learn the controls and mechanics, but after that they must be welcomed to the world. If you create more tiers of instant battles you simply create this loop where you feel you are at the top then a couple upgrades later you are back at the bottom because you moved to the next collection of players. Though this comes from the guy who believes the disparity between new and old players is not as great as it seems.
Matchmaking SHOULD be done in instant match, personally I would do a meta total or meta Avg and all tiered. Right now there is no where close to safe unlike Eve.
FW & PC should be the "real" world. Here you can use any advantage you want, the win is all that matters. But we need an even battlefield when we are fighting for nothing. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
213
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
I feel like talking about MAG again... but i'm actually, genially, scare of the Banning Hammer... |
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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2105
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Tell me, if I only had advanced level gear and matchmaking put me only against those with advanced level gear, why would I want to get prototype? It would be the same exact thing several weeks of grinding later. If you do extremely good in advanced gear you will be matched up against proto people. If you do average then you will be with the rest of the advanced suits. It all balances out. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
299
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Tell me, if I only had advanced level gear and matchmaking put me only against those with advanced level gear, why would I want to get prototype? It would be the same exact thing several weeks of grinding later. If you do extremely good in advanced gear you will be matched up against proto people. If you do average then you will be with the rest of the advanced suits. It all balances out. Well then you got the same problem. You'll have a basic-advanced portion and an advanced-prototype portion, where it's essentially the same gear gaps but after a ton more grinding. I mean, it's sort of like the same problem as games like Borderlands have, where you level up to get better guns and shields, only to end up facing enemies that also have better guns and shields. After grinding to the top you really don't feel like you achieved anything.
The whole spectrum needs to coexists. That's just my opinion. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
213
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Reduce the SP gap.. is just that simple. The current SP gap is about 10,000,00 sp, or something like that... so just let new people start at 2,500,000 sp, instead of 500,000 sp. And carry on doing that as the SP gap gets bigger. |
steadyhand amarr
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
791
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 10:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
There is no point removing the sp gap because older players by default will have more sp than new players. And I don't have a problem. My issue is unlike eve new players don't have a role to fill and can very damaging to the team where as in EvE they can help out in all areas and be a strength to a corp. THIS is the difference that needs to be addressed |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
541
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 11:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:With a few exceptions this is the norm for any fps that has more than amount under its belt. If I tried to play TLOU, Uncharted, COD Battlefield or any other shooter I would be slaughtered repeatedly. Top players dominate any play who isn't in the top 10%. That's why they are the best.
The new players need to understand that this isn't a normal shooter and team work is almost required. Practice with the weapons and suit fittings is very important and our "bitter vets" should be more active in new player training. I do agree that it is a tough uphill battle for new players, but only for about a month. This game isn't that hard I'd people stick with it.
With the amount of players regularly online match making will never work. We need battles that are segregated by sec status. Each level of security should limit the suits and gear allowed on the field. Mercs should be able to choose the difficulty of their fight by the security status of the system. The games you speak of don't unlock better weapons, they unlock different weapons (Example being High fire rate low damage vs low damage and High fire rate). That's the difference.
Yes, but top players destroy non top players. The weapons are very similar but are tiered and have advantages over other weapons that are not accessible to brand new players. My point is that any game that allows people to choose the squad they run with, have static maps and are based off of player skill tends to be difficult to get into for new players. I am not arguing that the weapon progression in DUST is different from other shooters and I agree that higher level gear is more powerful and offers and that they give advantages.
Part of the problem I see in DUST is the entitlement nature of FPS. People who play the usual FPS are used to weapons that kill in a few shots. Dust is a tactical shooter that is heavily team based and two shot kills are harder to manage. People are expecting to start the game and be able to do anything they want at top levels and that is not the case. We are impatient and demanding gamers that expect fast pace progression. I blame most of the other FPS out there for having little depth and a flat learning curve.
FPS players are arrogant, impulsive and will follow anything that swells their egos or causes tears to other players. If new players can't hit the battlefield with some of the best stuff in less than a week they don't want it. My friend fully prestiged COD and dropped it like a bad habit in under 2 months. He didn't like dust because it took too long to kill other mercs, he was out classed in weapons and suits and he couldn't go proto in a day or two. I told him to stick with it and focus on what he likes but he said it take too long. He didn't give it a week.
The people who quit because they are biomassed quicker than they think they should be would quit in a short time because they are quitters and don't want a game that takes time, teamwork and skill. I do feel bad for new players because it is hard to be top knotch in a game that rewards longevity but they also have to realize that isn't a game that will be re-released in a year with a new skin. Other FPS rely on the fact that the gamers will not stay longer than a few month. I know that there are plenty of games that still have servers running with people on them but number are pretty low.
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Rupture Reaperson
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
212
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 11:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: You can say "HTFU" all you want but most players will just leave after playing 15 matches in a row against two proto squads who completely dominated them, and YOU DON'T want that for the game. Even EVE isn't this bad as you can avoid PvP for a while.
You know whats funny? It going to be... yeap around 8 months I said a similar statement, well at least someone else its snapping out of it, which is some progress. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2107
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 11:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:There is no point removing the sp gap because older players by default will have more sp than new players. And I don't have a problem. My issue is unlike eve new players don't have a role to fill and can very damaging to the team where as in EvE they can help out in all areas and be a strength to a corp. THIS is the difference that needs to be addressed There is a point where you stop growing up and start growing sideways. (As in you maxed your specific specialization) That point is around 12mil. Giving them a bigger head start (3mil, 4mil) will go a long way. |
Karazantor
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 11:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:There is no point removing the sp gap because older players by default will have more sp than new players. And I don't have a problem. My issue is unlike eve new players don't have a role to fill and can very damaging to the team where as in EvE they can help out in all areas and be a strength to a corp. THIS is the difference that needs to be addressed
The sides (teams) are far too small, so it makes absolutely no sense to take anyone bar the best you can find - as a percentage, if one new character is in a team and not able to pull their weight, its a considerably larger drawback then if we could have 48+ per side a la PS2.
I don't know what the actual limits are for the Playstation 3, but increasing players on the field, and possibly size of map, would be extremely beneficial for newer players. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
87
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 11:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Again, why doesn't anyone listen to me?
huh? |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
213
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 11:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:There is no point removing the sp gap because older players by default will have more sp than new players. And I don't have a problem. My issue is unlike eve new players don't have a role to fill and can very damaging to the team where as in EvE they can help out in all areas and be a strength to a corp. THIS is the difference that needs to be addressed There is a point where you stop growing up and start growing sideways. (As in you maxed your specific specialization) That point is around 12mil. Giving them a bigger head start (3mil, 4mil) will go a long way.
Exactly ...You'll still need boosters to compete with the "big" boys, but you can be competitive from the start.. that will help "alot" to keep new players interested. |
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