This fix is supposed to make shields and armor have unique roles.


Please read GÇ£[P2] Roles of shield and armourGÇ¥, where the roles of shield and armor are covered.


Here are the list of things done, I will then expand on each:
-All plates HP increased by 2x
-Plates movement penalties changed to 5/7.5/10
-Armor reps changed to 5/7.5/10
-Armor reps now have a unique mechanic
-Gallente suits are given an inherent 5hp/s regeneration, helping lower level armor tanking


You might see the 2x HP increase and think GÇ£WTFGÇ¥, and I expected that.
But see, armor is supposed to have much higher HP than shields do, but because we need to use half our slots for reps, the HP gained is lost, while still having less reps.


But then you think GÇ£But didnGÇÖt you just increase reps amount?GÇ¥, and thatGÇÖs true, but hear me out on this.
This is the main part of the idea:
If you read the Roles of shield and armor part, then you would know that shields are skirmishers, they dictate their range, get out of battle, regenerate quickly and come back.
Armor is a brawler, taking a good punch while dealing lots of damage and regenerating under fire, but need repair tools to repair properly outside of battle.
Armor is also slow, which means it canGÇÖt dictate range, and canGÇÖt run out of battle as quickly, and its a very easy target.
Also has problems with power projection, taking time to respond to enemies taking your objectives, or teammates need help.
So taking this into consideration, I have got an idea to solidify the armor tanking role.
When you take damage from an enemy (not just any damage, like fall damage), your reps work at 100%.
The longer time has passed from the last time you took damage, the slower your reps work, down to 25% at the lowest level.
It goes like this:
0-5 seconds = 100%
5-10 seconds = 75%
10-15 seconds = 50%
15 seconds and beyond = 25%


The basic and enhanced plates penalty has been increased, because in its current form, the penalty rises very disproportionately to the HP gained.
This fixes the problem, making complex plates worthwhile.


New plates numbers:
Basic plate = 130HP, -5% speed
Enhanced plate = 174HP - 7.5% speed
Complex plate = 230HP - 10% speed


Some numbers.
Gallente Assault:
210 Armor HP + 230HP + 230HP (2x Complex plates) = 670 HP
The other two slots are used for armor repairers, and in addition to the inherent rep speed this turns into 25hp/s of regeneration at the first 5 seconds you take damage.
After 15 seconds this rep drops to 25%, putting it at 6.25, which is painfully slow.

But what if a Shield suit gets a hold of these new modules? Since our HP is lost to repairers and we usually need 2 repairers to be good it means shield suits will have higher HP, again, like always. Unless the 2x increase is a racial bonus, which everybody and their grandma that isn't a armor suit will ***** about, it will make no difference.

But what if a Shield suit gets a hold of these new modules? Since our HP is lost to repairers and we usually need 2 repairers to be good it means shield suits will have higher HP, again, like always. Unless the 2x increase is a racial bonus, which everybody and their grandma that isn't a armor suit will ***** about, it will make no difference.

Lets say we have a two suits an Assault CK.0 and a Assault GK.0

So for the Assault CK.0 we have 4x complex shields, and 3x basic armor which is now 130 HP, this gives them a combined EHP of 654 not counting base stats and since they do not need armor repairs this fit is fine. For a Assault GK.0 lets give him 3x complex shields, 3x basic armor and 1x repairer, this gives him a combined HP of 588 and repair of 12.5.

But what if a Shield suit gets a hold of these new modules? Since our HP is lost to repairers and we usually need 2 repairers to be good it means shield suits will have higher HP, again, like always. Unless the 2x increase is a racial bonus, which everybody and their grandma that isn't a armor suit will ***** about, it will make no difference.

Lets say we have a two suits an Assault CK.0 and a Assault GK.0

So for the Assault CK.0 we have 4x complex shields, and 3x basic armor which is now 130 HP, this gives them a combined EHP of 654 not counting base stats and since they do not need armor repairs this fit is fine. For a Assault GK.0 lets give him 3x complex shields, 3x basic armor and 1x repairer, this gives him a combined HP of 588 and repair of 12.5. If the GK.0 went buffer tank it would have 718 HP but with no way to repair this is a fairly weak fit.

You're comparing complex extenders to basic plates?
Do the math again, this time with complex plates, see where that gets you.
Also, put some extenders on.

Oky dok. But I do have extenders on?

CK.0

4x Complex shields = 264
2x Complex armor = 230
1x Complex repair = 10 HP

CK.0

4x Complex shields = 264
3x Complex armor = 690

GK.0

3x Complex shields = 198
3x Complex armor = 690
1x Complex repairer = 10 HP

GK.0 BUFFER

3x Complex shields = 198
4x Complex armor = 920

Seems to work pretty well, but we would need to increase weapon damage before 3 clip kills come into play.

That's at the complex level mind you.
Duvolle + 15% damage from the skill + 1x complex damage mod = 2782.5 damage per clip.

Shots gotta hit, the average accuracy for FPS players is 30% so thats like 834 damage.

Now that's just insanity tbh.

Shots gotta hit, the average accuracy for FPS players is 30% so thats like 834 damage.

And extenders extend your hit box.

Forgot about that, carry-on, this seems to be a good fix. Although I still think damage should be increased :)

What do you mean?

Forgot that the whole suggestion by Cat Merc included increasing the hit box, and thus a shield suit stacking armor + shields would pretty much be committing suicide.

Wait, did I just solve dual tanking being the best thing ever?
Yeah, I totally intended that!
Totally...

With this in place I would actually use Damage modifiers :)

Forgot that the whole suggestion by Cat Merc included increasing the hit box, and thus a shield suit stacking armor + shields would pretty much be committing suicide.

EDIT: Although wouldn't it be better to increase armor racially instead of completely, since doubling its HP would make every suit a dual tank or an armor tank.

Oh well, regardless of what we say and how good, or bad, our ideas are, the truth still stands that CCP isn't going to do anything, and if they do, it won't be now it will be SOON Gäó or about 6 months to 10 years from now. By the time they fix armor I will have enough SP to max my side skills and get a new suit.

Were is this list sir.

It was a Blue Post last week. If you use the Dev Post finder, you should be able to locate it.

I think it was Eterne or FoxFour who made the post.

I have to say that I disagree with the majority of this. It has great ideas, but I have heard many ideas before it that make more sense.

Regarding armor plates and their penalties, just scale the armor bonus to be equal with the scale of the movement penalty. If that was overly confusing, think of it this way: 3% to 5% increase from basic to enhanced plates is a 1.6 multiplier (actually 1.6666666666666..... but this game always rounds down so I did too) so the 68 armor bonus from basic plates should be multiplied by 1.6 also, and then 5% to 10% is a 2 multiplier, so you multiply the enhanced bonus by 2, which ends up looking like:
Basic plates- 68 armor, 3% penalty
Enhanced plates- 108 armor, 5% penalty
Complex plates- 216 armor, 10% penalty

It gives the roughly same complex stats as you recommend, but keep the basic plates lower than what you recommended so you couldn't stack them and be a dual shield/armor god with low movement penalty.

Regarding increased armor repair module rates, I believe they are as they should be at the moment, you can stack them to great effect, but not god-like effect, if you think of it with these changes, a PRO Gallente assault could stack 4 complex repair modules, gain 25% more from the skill, gain 50% more from their racial that you mentioned, for a total of 40*(1.25)*(1.5)=75, which if you add in the possibility of a logi with a core repair tool, you are looking at + 105, which ends at 180 armor/second, which cancels out a significant percentage of weapon DPS, meaning it basically turns repair modules into resistance plates, stacking them to negate damage rather than keep you in the fight over prolonged periods of time.

Regarding shield extenders increasing hitboxes, I still believe the long ago recommended increase to scan profile would be a better fit, increasing hitboxes is a dramatic nerf, and though I could not confirm this for certain, would likely be a huge undertaking to code and implement it into the game.

Speaking of changes to armor, even though I don't believe it can fix all of our armor problems, I believe a Gallente assault racial mentioned here could help alleviate some issues.

Now that's just insanity tbh.

let them suffer as we did

Hmmph, your plate idea sounds better.

You are forgetting that this kind of speed only happens when you get hit.
After that, you are down to 25% of that rep speed, meaning 18.75.
And you have zero HP to go along with it, so you're just a meat bag.

Note, even if you have 10000000 reps, the dude has almost no HP, a standard AR with no skills or damage mods can kill him before the first rep cycle with ease.

Scan profile is not nearly as penalizing as speed.
So NOPE.
And if hitboxes are a dramatic nerf, then speed is a HUGE nerf, because it does the same thing (making you easier to hit) while also crippling your speed.