DUST Search - [Feedback/Request] Why light suits need more slots

Stile451 wrote:

You aren't supposed to be able to fit all of your slots with prototype gear.

I certainly can't on my prototype Minmatar logistics suit(even if I had all passive skills at level 5). I could maybe fit 9 prototype items with 1 dead slot(cpu/pg upgrade). That's 9 out of 14 slots(64%).

So I gave it a shot using the fitting tool to see what I could do with proto scouts.

I was able to fit a minmatar mk.0 with 3 complex shield modules, prototype shotgun, standard smg, prototype grenades, prototype kinetic catalyzer, and advanced nanohive while using one enhanced cpu upgrade. That's 6 out of 9 slots(66%).

I was also able to fit a gallente gk.0 with 1 complex shield module, prototype shotgun, prototype nova knives, prototype grenades, 2x prototype kinetic catalyzers, a prototype cardiac regulator, stable drop uplinks(standard but uses less CPU/PG), and using 1 militia CPU upgrade. This one is very tight for PG(uses 79 of 79). That's 7 out of 9(78%).

A cheaper grenade could be used to allow you to use the dead slots with standard items. The flaylock could also be used to make these fittings work more easily as well.

It seems to me that the scout suit is balanced with other suits as far as fittings go, although one extra low slot would help(use it for CPU or PG upgrades).

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4639	Posted - 2013.07.03 02:56:00 - [1] - Quote [Gallente light vs medium comparison] Gallente medium: 7 module slots Gallente medium 330 HP: 120 shield / 210 armor 20 shield recharge rate / 7 s shield recharge delay 5 movement / 7 sprint Gallente light: 5 module slots 200: 70 armor / 130 armor 40 shield recharge rage / 4 s shield recharge delay 5.5 movement / 7.6 sprint [Minmatar light vs medium comparison] Minmatar medium: 7 module slots Minmatar medium 285 HP: 150 shield / 135 armor 18 shield recharge rate / 6 s shield recharge delay 5.3 movement / 7.4 sprint Minmatar light: 5 module slots 170 HP: 100 shield / 70 armor 40 shield recharge rate / 4 s shield recharge delay 5.7 movement / 7.9 sprint [Conclusion] Gallente light loses 80 HP, loses 2 module slots / gains 0.5 movement speed, gains 0.6 sprint speed, gains better and faster shield recharge: not worth it IMO. Minmatar ight loses 115 HP, loses 2 module slots / gains 0.4 movement speed, gains 0.5 sprint speed, and gains better and faster shield recharge. The problem is the lack of module slots: think the HP loss is a fair tradeoff for the speed and shield recharging, but the loss of slots is too much. With the better hit detection, light suits are going extinct because they are way too easy to kill. Giving them one or two more module slots would make them more able to compete; either through HP tanking for combat light suits, or through increasing their natural abilities like speed.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4643	Posted - 2013.07.03 04:57:00 - [2] - Quote No comment? not even that long
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2013.07.03 05:06:00 - [3] - Quote I certainly agree. I have often found myself wishing for just one more low slot as a Minmatar scout. But, given just how awful the light frames CPU&PG are (especially the Minmatar one), that one extra slot would be somewhat difficult to fit. I already have to make many compromises to fit what I need to, and with that slot, I'd have to compromise even more. So, while I agree, the extra slot should, in my opinion, be accompanied by a somewhat large increase in CPU&PG.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 12	Posted - 2013.07.03 05:10:00 - [4] - Quote Am I too late to the party? I won't go into details unless asked, but I don't think Scouts will be anything other than paperweight until they get another Equipment slot. Regarding Light Frames in general, I think their low slot count is fine and fits the class, but I think that more Light Frame roles will alleviated some of the aching pains those who wish to use Light Frames are feeling (like myself). Cloaks will also help to quell the pain and allow some Light suits to do their jobs properly.
DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 24	Posted - 2013.07.03 05:14:00 - [5] - Quote I think it be better for them to be faster and have more cpu and p g so they can actually fill there slots
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1107	Posted - 2013.07.03 05:21:00 - [6] - Quote Slightly off-topic, but it makes me wonder what will happen with the Amarr Scout/light. If the trend continues as-is, the Amarr scout would have the fewest module slots, be slower than a Minmatar assault, and not really have any notable amount of HP. The Caldari Scout will wind up the most powerful scout because it stands to benefit the most from the Scout's great recharge and delay stats with what will presumably be the most high slots and highest base shields.
DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 24	Posted - 2013.07.03 05:49:00 - [7] - Quote I think it be better for them to be faster and have more cpu and p g so they can actually fill there slots
BARDAS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:28:00 - [8] - Quote The base walk/run speed should be upped. The extra speed we get is incredibly tiny in comparison to the stuff we lose. Also should increase the CPU/PG output of the Scout suits(especially since Lore wise are not the Minmatar supposed to get more CPU/PG output?). More slots would be most welcome if they could be fit. My Novas would also appreciate the ability to Sprint and Charge at the same time as well.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 135	Posted - 2013.07.03 08:27:00 - [9] - Quote +1 indeed. There are also some bonuses you don't mention, such as the better scan precision and profile dampening, but with all suits having the same (crappy) scan range, this doesn't seem like a benefit that is worth much to the light frames. I'd also be in favor of an increase to walk/sprint speed by .2 for each racial suit.... and something like being able to not only charge nova knives while running, but also reload weapons, instead of a module/CPU increase.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4659	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:16:00 - [10] - Quote lights/scouts need love CCP

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 354	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:21:00 - [11] - Quote Loving this thread definitely need at least 1 slot more to compete
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 108	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:24:00 - [12] - Quote A slot on its own wont help much, we'd need a bit of a cpu/pg boost to actually be able to use it, as is we're stuck for space.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:32:00 - [13] - Quote I would say another equipment slot + a cpu/pg boost + a buff to move/sprint speed is what scouts need. Why? An extra equipment slot would allow me to do more scout-y things at once, like uplink + scanner or uplink + stealth (once it gets here) The cpu/pg boost would be so that I could actually fit this new equipment on my already cpu/pg tight suit The move/sprint speed boost would help the move the scout away from being a weak assault. 0.5-0.6 m/s difference between our assault variants isn't much to talk about.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4660	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:54:00 - [14] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: I would say another equipment slot + a cpu/pg boost + a buff to move/sprint speed is what scouts need. Why? An extra equipment slot would allow me to do more scout-y things at once, like uplink + scanner or uplink + stealth (once it gets here) The cpu/pg boost would be so that I could actually fit this new equipment on my already cpu/pg tight suit The move/sprint speed boost would help move the scout away from being a weak assault. 0.5-0.6 m/s difference between our assault variants isn't much to talk about. That would also be great.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2013.07.04 03:02:00 - [15] - Quote In addition to what I said above, I'm slightly against adding more highs and lows to scouts (I'd take it just because CCP needs to throw scouts a bone though). The reason is because at the moment there are no useful modules for scouting. What about the ones that affect passive scan? Even if passive scan actually worked, for most scout-related roles they aren't very useful. The precision enhancers? Only really useful to a scout for finding another scout. The profile dampener? Only useful for a scout hiding from a scout hunter. Range amplifier? Perhaps a cqc scout would find it useful (Would need a minja or shoty scout's POV on this). All of these (except the cqc scout) are highly specialized fits. What about codebreakers then? While I do find they are helpful, the extra hacking speed provided by them rarely feels necessary. Most scouts probably wouldn't see much use in adding these modules. What would these new slots go to then? Adding more tank or more gank. While that is good for scout survivability, it would also would further encourage scouts to play like speedy assaults which I do not believe is what CCP intended for the scout.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 109	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:10:00 - [16] - Quote You aren't supposed to be able to fit all of your slots with prototype gear. I certainly can't on my prototype Minmatar logistics suit(even if I had all passive skills at level 5). I could maybe fit 9 prototype items with 1 dead slot(cpu/pg upgrade). That's 9 out of 14 slots(64%). So I gave it a shot using the fitting tool to see what I could do with proto scouts. I was able to fit a minmatar mk.0 with 3 complex shield modules, prototype shotgun, standard smg, prototype grenades, prototype kinetic catalyzer, and advanced nanohive while using one enhanced cpu upgrade. That's 6 out of 9 slots(66%). I was also able to fit a gallente gk.0 with 1 complex shield module, prototype shotgun, prototype nova knives, prototype grenades, 2x prototype kinetic catalyzers, a prototype cardiac regulator, stable drop uplinks(standard but uses less CPU/PG), and using 1 militia CPU upgrade. This one is very tight for PG(uses 79 of 79). That's 7 out of 9(78%). A cheaper grenade could be used to allow you to use the dead slots with standard items. The flaylock could also be used to make these fittings work more easily as well. It seems to me that the scout suit is balanced with other suits as far as fittings go, no PG or CPU buff is needed although one extra low slot would help(use it for CPU or PG upgrades).
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 58	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:14:00 - [17] - Quote Stile451 wrote: You aren't supposed to be able to fit all of your slots with prototype gear. I certainly can't on my prototype Minmatar logistics suit(even if I had all passive skills at level 5). I could maybe fit 9 prototype items with 1 dead slot(cpu/pg upgrade). That's 9 out of 14 slots(64%). So I gave it a shot using the fitting tool to see what I could do with proto scouts. I was able to fit a minmatar mk.0 with 3 complex shield modules, prototype shotgun, standard smg, prototype grenades, prototype kinetic catalyzer, and advanced nanohive while using one enhanced cpu upgrade. That's 6 out of 9 slots(66%). I was also able to fit a gallente gk.0 with 1 complex shield module, prototype shotgun, prototype nova knives, prototype grenades, 2x prototype kinetic catalyzers, a prototype cardiac regulator, stable drop uplinks(standard but uses less CPU/PG), and using 1 militia CPU upgrade. This one is very tight for PG(uses 79 of 79). That's 7 out of 9(78%). A cheaper grenade could be used to allow you to use the dead slots with standard items. The flaylock could also be used to make these fittings work more easily as well. It seems to me that the scout suit is balanced with other suits as far as fittings go, although one extra low slot would help(use it for CPU or PG upgrades). Fitting-wise, the scout is fairly well balanced with our current slot setup. The problem is performance-wise the scout are badly behind all other suits now. Any increase in cpu/pg would be for the sole purpose of rebalancing the suit if it gained more slots (whether that slot is equipment or module).
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 110	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:50:00 - [18] - Quote Ah, so you're basically asking for an 11%(1/9*100) increase in pg and cpu for each new slot given if any are given. I could see one low module with an 11% increase in CPU and PG.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3019	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:54:00 - [19] - Quote The primary concern is not about the slots but the lack of CPU/PG for scouts. I'm not asking for too much. Just maybe a tiny little buff is enough.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 111	Posted - 2013.07.04 07:08:00 - [20] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The primary concern is not about the slots but the lack of CPU/PG for scouts. I'm not asking for too much. Just maybe a tiny little buff is enough. You've been around for a long time so I assume you already know this but for those that don't: I presume you have your passive skills up already as they give a significant increase in fitting ability: dropsuit core upgrades(1% to both CPU and PG per level), dropsuit engineering(+5% PG per level), and dropsuit electronics(5% CPU per level). If you've ignored these then you should get them up asap. Light weapon operation and sidearm operation reduce CPU fitting costs by 3% per level for those weapons as well and shouldn't be ignored. If those skills are already up you can get more PG from the individual weapon fitting optimizations(3% PG per level for the individual weapon). If you still feel the need for more fitting space I'd love to know what you're trying to fit.

Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 59	Posted - 2013.07.04 07:13:00 - [21] - Quote Just what in the world was CCP thinking?! I'll be patient I guess.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2013.07.04 07:47:00 - [22] - Quote Stile451 wrote: Ah, so you're basically asking for an 11%(1/9*100) increase in pg and cpu for each new slot given if any are given. I could see one low module with an 11% increase in CPU and PG. That is my angle at least. Just as minor note, I believe we would be owed a 12.5% increase in CPU/PG since 9 slots is an increase of 12.5% over 8 slots. (I will claw every last bit of a buff I can for scouts )
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 111	Posted - 2013.07.04 08:30:00 - [23] - Quote gk.0 has 1 high, 4 low, 1 equip, 1 light weapon, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade for a total of 9 slots. The mk.0 similarly has 9 slots. 12.5% is a rounder number though.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 67	Posted - 2013.07.05 05:01:00 - [24] - Quote Stile451 wrote: gk.0 has 1 high, 4 low, 1 equip, 1 light weapon, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade for a total of 9 slots. The mk.0 similarly has 9 slots. 12.5% is a rounder number though. Whoops Must have missed one when I was counting the slots.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 24	Posted - 2013.07.05 05:25:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: [Gallente light vs medium comparison] EDIT: extra PG/CPU should be added to be able to fit modules in those slots. EDIT 2: More speed and an extra equipment slot would also be a nice alternative. I'd much rather see the Scouts get an extra Equipment slot. Like I said here, without two Equipment slots, the Scout doesn't feel like a Scout because it can't perform it's niche properly. Even the Scout's name suggests that it would do: something like establish Drop Uplinks and Active Scan or Drop Uplinks and set up repping Nanohives. I feel like adding more High/Low slots would move it further from its role as an infiltrator and the Scout would start to morph into a wannabe Medium Frame instead of what it should be doing. Extra CPU/PG might be nice, but I'd like to see someone do some calculations or link some that have already been done using maxed skills that affect CPU/PG and see how bad the problem actually is or if people are just trying to Scout with no CPU/PG boost/reduction skills. Unrelated Sidenote: I think many of your posts are quality and productive KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf. Thank you for contributing positively, being constructive, and helping move this game and community forward. Please, keep doing what you're doing. Thanks!
The-Errorist BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 21	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:20:00 - [26] - Quote Having 0.5m/s more sprint and movement speed, 1 more equipment slot, and extra PG/CPU would make scouts better fit their role and have enough to work with to be a worthwhile frame size/specialization.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4679	Posted - 2013.07.05 08:35:00 - [27] - Quote Updated OP based on comment feedback: The problem is that light suits sacrifice too much: think the HP loss is a fair tradeoff for the speed and shield recharging, but the loss of slots is too much. With the better hit detection, light suits are going extinct because they are way too easy to kill. Give basic lights one or two more module slots would make them more able to compete; either through HP tanking for combat light suits, or through increasing their natural abilities like speed. Extra PG/CPU should be added to be able to fit modules in those slots. Instead of giving scouts more module slots, give them an extra equipment slot, more PG/CPU to use it, and 0.5 extra speed. This would allow them to carry things like drop uplinks, and also carry more scouty stuff like the active scanner, or cloak field equipment (when it comes). This will help differentiate the specialization from its basic frame.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 70	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:18:00 - [28] - Quote I actually really like the idea of having the basic frame being quite a bit of difference from the specialized versions. This means basic lights might actually fill some sort of niche instead of being a poor man's scout suit.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 156	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:44:00 - [29] - Quote Here is my preference (cut and pasted from another thread). It expands on my original post in this thread, which only mentioned speed and ability to reload on the run, and charge novas on the run. - Increase base scan range to 15m - Add 15-20 CPU per suit tier (this assumes no extra modules) - Add .2 or .3 to base & sprint speed - Increase jump height by foot or two - Fix stamina 1.2 downgrade - Add another high slot to Gallente pro, Low to Min @ pro (adjust CPU/PG to accomodate) Not a fix to scouts directly but improved hit detection would really help a lot. Note that I also like the idea of an additional EQ slot, and would prefer this over an extra module slot. Again, provided CPU/PG was increased to accomodate.
The-Errorist BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 22	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:49:00 - [30] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: I actually really like the idea of having the basic frame being quite a bit of difference from the specialized versions. This means basic lights might actually fill some sort of niche instead of being a poor man's scout suit. Actually basic frames are more expensive than specialized dropsuits.



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