DUST Search - HEAVY SUITS AND HMGs ARE STILL UNDERPOWERED!

Nocturnal Soul wrote:

D legendary hero wrote:

i just finished playing for 3 hours (to thuroughly test out the patch and HMG) with a squad and every match we encountered caldari logisitics with over 1000 EHP.

i fought one guy in a caldari assault suit (or logi i dnt quit remember but it was proto) who had 588 shield and 417 armor.
i faced advanced caldari suits with 780ehp. my heavy suit only has 466 and 425 shield/armor respectively. i dnt put plates because the penalties are far too great.

A. problems with the HMG:
extremely low damage, and high inaccuracy

solution:
damage per shot and total DPS. the base damage must be increased to AT MINIMUM SMG damage per shot (25+), if not at max assault rifle damage per shot (34+). this gun isnt doing enough damage at its optimal range, i am still being out gunned by ARs, and SRs. in close range im beat by everything and at long range too.
A buff even to 34 damage per shot is balanced by the HMGs:

1. range
2. dispersion
3. reload speed
4. over heating
5. recoil

external balancing factors are:

1. all suits increased movement speed,
2. other suits ability to disengage at anytime. (explained below)

B. problems with heavy suit:

the slow movement speed, turn speed, and extremely limited slots makes this suit ineffective against all but milita gear even at the proto level. enemies can easily engage and disengage the heavy at anytime regardless of what weapon he is using. making the suit a liability to the team rather than an asset.

solution:
1. increase turn speed to that of all other suits. add more high and low slots to be on par with the assault suit of the same race, or 1 less than the logistics suit of the same race.
2. give the suit a 25% base resistance to damage with an increase via leveling up the heavy suit (basic,sentinel, commando, etc) to a max of 35-45% resistance to small arms fire.

this is balanced the fact that other suits have an extreme advantage in movement speed, jump height and over all mobility. and since other suits can reach the same EHP or greater than that of a heavy without sacrificing speed. the heavy should be able to counter act this with greater defense, and turning speed. inaddition to a better slot layout allowing for a more versitly soldier.

alright solution to problem B go to options and increase your X-interval/sesivtivity like all the other tankers

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D legendary hero Strong-Arm 257	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:34:00 - [31] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: D legendary hero wrote: i just finished playing for 3 hours (to thuroughly test out the patch and HMG) with a squad and every match we encountered caldari logisitics with over 1000 EHP. i fought one guy in a caldari assault suit (or logi i dnt quit remember but it was proto) who had 588 shield and 417 armor. i faced advanced caldari suits with 780ehp. my heavy suit only has 466 and 425 shield/armor respectively. i dnt put plates because the penalties are far too great. A. problems with the HMG: extremely low damage, and high inaccuracy solution: damage per shot and total DPS. the base damage must be increased to AT MINIMUM SMG damage per shot (25+), if not at max assault rifle damage per shot (34+). this gun isnt doing enough damage at its optimal range, i am still being out gunned by ARs, and SRs. in close range im beat by everything and at long range too. A buff even to 34 damage per shot is balanced by the HMGs: 1. range 2. dispersion 3. reload speed 4. over heating 5. recoil external balancing factors are: 1. all suits increased movement speed, 2. other suits ability to disengage at anytime. (explained below) B. problems with heavy suit: the slow movement speed, turn speed, and extremely limited slots makes this suit ineffective against all but milita gear even at the proto level. enemies can easily engage and disengage the heavy at anytime regardless of what weapon he is using. making the suit a liability to the team rather than an asset. solution: 1. increase turn speed to that of all other suits. add more high and low slots to be on par with the assault suit of the same race, or 1 less than the logistics suit of the same race. 2. give the suit a 25% base resistance to damage with an increase via leveling up the heavy suit (basic,sentinel, commando, etc) to a max of 35-45% resistance to small arms fire. this is balanced the fact that other suits have an extreme advantage in movement speed, jump height and over all mobility. and since other suits can reach the same EHP or greater than that of a heavy without sacrificing speed. the heavy should be able to counter act this with greater defense, and turning speed. inaddition to a better slot layout allowing for a more versitly soldier. alright solution to problem B go to options and increase your X-interval/sesivtivity like all the other tankers already have it on max X and Y
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 108	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:58:00 - [32] - Quote I'm a through and through Heavy, and even I have a hard time swallowing this.. D legendary hero wrote: i just finished playing for 3 hours (to thuroughly test out the patch and HMG) with a squad and every match we encountered caldari logisitics with over 1000 EHP. i fought one guy in a caldari assault suit (or logi i dnt quit remember but it was proto) who had 588 shield and 417 armor. i faced advanced caldari suits with 780ehp. my heavy suit only has 466 and 425 shield/armor respectively. i dnt put plates because the penalties are far too great. -First, he likely has Shield and Armor skills maxed, granting him +25% / +25%, not to mention effacy bonuses. -With those bonuses, he's also full tank equiped, meaning no damage mods. It's the extreme end of the spectrum. -You only have +15% / +5%, and are using no armor mods, therefore you get no effacy bonus. Or, you are only +5% / +5, and are using a basic shield extender module. Whatever the case, you're drastically under-skilled D legendary hero wrote: A. problems with the HMG: extremely low damage, and high inaccuracy -The HMG is perfectly accurate at full-spin, the problem is hit detection. -The damage is fine, the problem is range scaling. Especially if you were engaging outside of 30m, which it sounds like you were. -High range favors the AR - get behind some cover, and force him to come to you. If you want long range combat, you're using the wrong gun. D legendary hero wrote: solution: damage per shot and total DPS. the base damage must be increased to AT MINIMUM SMG damage per shot (25+), if not at max assault rifle damage per shot (34+). this gun isnt doing enough damage at its optimal range, i am still being out gunned by ARs, and SRs. in close range im beat by everything and at long range too. A buff even to 34 damage per shot is balanced by the HMGs: 1. range 2. dispersion 3. reload speed 4. over heating 5. recoil Let me stop you right there, I'm seeing the problem. You're a low-skilled character trying to take on high skill characters. Want to know how I know? Because you think 'over heating' is a balance. At HMG 5, you basically never overheat. You need to try the Prototype HMG - they don't balance around Standard variants. Additionally -Every trigger pull(even the small ones) fires off 2-3 rounds. That's about 30-40 damage on a Standard HMG with no damage mods. In other words, ON PAR with AR's. Stop looking at the individual bullet damage, it's not a good indicator of damage output. With your numbers, I would do over 75 damage in a fraction of a second - a completely unreasonable amount. -Range, again. Range is fine, the problem is HMG users not knowing their effective range, and attempting to engage outside of it, as well as HMG users not knowing how to dictate range(something that is fairly important). -You have over 425 rounds. That's about 30 seconds of balls to the wall continuous fire - something no HMG user should ever really be doing(unless you flux'd a bunch of dudes and are going HAM at point blank). The reload time is just fine. -Recoil is really barely noticeable. Because of your previous complaints(over heating, reload speed), it's a easy draw to think that you're basically spraying and praying and hoping for the best - something which WILL generate lots of recoil. Back off the trigger there, Tex. D legendary hero wrote: external balancing factors are: 1. all suits increased movement speed, 2. other suits ability to disengage at anytime. (explained below) -Suit movement speeds are fairly close. It's stamina that determines effective mobility in terms of distance -Heavies can disengage at any time. Think smarter, not harder. Ride around with a LAV. Use cover(LAVs make great improvised cover). Know the terrain. You CAN make it out alive, it just requires some thought. -Cover cover cover!!!! If you duck behind a wall, they have to come around the same wall, and nobody(not even proto suit users) like taking on a HMG near point blank. D legendary hero wrote: B. problems with heavy suit: the slow movement speed, turn speed, and extremely limited slots makes this suit ineffective against all but milita gear even at the proto level. enemies can easily engage and disengage the heavy at anytime regardless of what weapon he is using. making the suit a liability to the team rather than an asset. solution: 1. increase turn speed to that of all other suits. add more high and low slots to be on par with the assault suit of the same race, or 1 less than the logistics suit of the same race. 2. give the suit a 25% base resistance to damage with an increase via leveling up the heavy suit (basic,sentinel, commando, etc) to a max of 35-45% resistance to small arms fire. this is balanced the fact that other suits have an extreme advantage in movement speed, jump height and over all mobility. and since other suits can reach the same EHP or greater than that of a heavy without sacrificing speed. the heavy should be able to counter act this with greater defense, and turning speed. inaddition to a better slot layout allowing for a more versitly soldier. This is a mess, but i'll try and tackle it.. -I run around in a standard all the time. You can fit an enhanced damage modifier(or complex depending), a plate and a rep on it, not to mention grenades, sidearm, and HMG. You really don't need much else. If you want lots of slots, go play a medium frame. And it only gets better as you get up to ADV and Prototype. At proto level, you're vicious. -Turn speed is fine, but I will say we could probably use a jumping buff. Much more fluid too since 1.2. -If you want a heavy with equipment, Commando is over there points. -The part about the damage resistance I agree with, but there's a thread on that already. A rather large one actually.
George Moros WarRavens League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2013.07.03 08:07:00 - [33] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: agree. but damage is a serious factor as well. real LMGs fire the same rounds as ARs, and HMGs bigger rounds. the damage per shot of the HMG in dust should at minimum be the same as a SMG, if not slightly less than an AR. this won't affect ARs because ARs already do ridiculous damage. OK, but this is more of a balancing issue. Adjusting accuracy and damage per shot with RoF to make a well balanced weapon. From the way HMG looks (long barrels and all), it definitely should be able to do damage per shot at least as an AR, and at the same ranges. On the other hand, with it's current RoF, and with AR damage per shot, it could easily become OP.
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 192	Posted - 2013.07.03 08:10:00 - [34] - Quote George Moros wrote: D legendary hero wrote: agree. but damage is a serious factor as well. real LMGs fire the same rounds as ARs, and HMGs bigger rounds. the damage per shot of the HMG in dust should at minimum be the same as a SMG, if not slightly less than an AR. this won't affect ARs because ARs already do ridiculous damage. OK, but this is more of a balancing issue. Adjusting accuracy and damage per shot with RoF to make a well balanced weapon. From the way HMG looks (long barrels and all), it definitely should be able to do damage per shot at least as an AR, and at the same ranges. On the other hand, with it's current RoF, and with AR damage per shot, it could easily become OP. I think they effed when they made it spool to get more accurate, that makes balancing damage and range way harder than it should be. Leave that for the laser HMG when it comes and you have more fps experience under your belt. They should have stuck with only acurate with burst and high damage.
George Moros WarRavens League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2013.07.03 08:46:00 - [35] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: I think they effed when they made it spool to get more accurate, that makes balancing damage and range way harder than it should be. Leave that for the laser HMG when it comes and you have more fps experience under your belt. They should have stuck with only acurate with burst and high damage. Yeah. Maybe the Amarr heavy pulse gun will have decent range (if it's even on the roadmap). Maybe Minmatar heavy will be more agile and thus more suited for current HMG. Maybe Gallente heavy will have a pink helmet and smell of roses...
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 615	Posted - 2013.07.03 09:31:00 - [36] - Quote LOUD NOISES!!! Heavies are underpowered because the caldari logi is broke... STD heavies aren't as good as Proto Asault HMG got a range increase but so did AR's... but the maps stayed the same... HMG need to do 1100dmg... per SECOND (but il be ok 800) Heavies dont have any tank... (1000hp with NO mods)... and doesnt fit any tank Heavies are slow... "tear runs down face" Come on bro at least try to have reasonable arguement...
Khal V'Rani Nephilim Initiative 152	Posted - 2013.07.03 10:21:00 - [37] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: I think they effed when they made it spool to get more accurate, that makes balancing damage and range way harder than it should be. Leave that for the laser HMG when it comes and you have more fps experience under your belt. They should have stuck with only acurate with burst and high damage. I think the reasoning behind the spooling for accuracy is the initial torque created by the rotors to spin the barrels. Which means it would take a minute to adjust and get on target. Just my theory anyway.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 267	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:16:00 - [38] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: LOUD NOISES!!! Heavies are overpowered the guy carrying a minigun out gunned my AR... STD assaults aren't as good as Proto heavies ARs need to do just as much damage as HMGs (the first month of uprising) Heavies have too much tank... and can do too much stuff, they a gonna be fat assualt suits... wah wah Heavies are still too fast... runs to mom crying ... these are the same exact complaints that assualts and ARs have been saying and look what happened...lol CCP listened to them and ruined the game. they were upset that the heavies the counter infantry were doing the job, and so we were nerfed to 12 damage per round, with no range. then they increased it to 18, but gave a blanket 10 across the board to ARs as well. with thier superior range and similar firepower the purpose to the HMG became lost. most of the problems we have right now, save the caldari logi's would be resolved if the HMG was a threat and could supress like they used too. granted sharpshooter made the AHMGs range rediculous (although it was really that combined twith no stacking penalty on complex damage mods), but the used thor's nerf hammer to crack down on heaves like crime in the 'hood'. wrote: sorry forgot the 35% increased hp against small arms ... so 1600hp that is repped faster on top lol in the description of the suit it speaks about resistance to small arms fire. now assaults have had their way and they literally are the heavies now, they have just as much ehp, do just as much damage, have twice as much range and can pretty much do everything better. think that is an overstatement. please tell me, what can a heavy do that an assault or logi suit can't do better?
Skipper Jones Red Star. EoN. 222	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:20:00 - [39] - Quote With the unnecessary amount of range that CCP gave everybody. You guys don't need a buff
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 270	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:24:00 - [40] - Quote Skipper Jones wrote: With the unnecessary amount of range that CCP gave everybody. You guys don't need a buff im not really complaining about the range. in fact the range for the HMG is perfect in as much as anymore and it would be OP (by OP i mean AR users will scream at me for hitting them accurately that far) i could use alot more accuracy after the spooling is in full swing (even with the range the accuracy is **** poor, the spooling is supposed to make it more accurate) the damage is the biggest problem, because hitting people farther away is nice but having no stopping power defeats the point to engaging them as heavies can't disengage at will like faster suits.

low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 141	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:37:00 - [41] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm afraid I simply can't take you seriously when you suggest a damage buff that drastic. agreed. obviously the ar is a better weapon, but the hmg serves it's purpose, and does a better job now that it can hit at range. to the op: tl;dr
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 201	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:40:00 - [42] - Quote low genius wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm afraid I simply can't take you seriously when you suggest a damage buff that drastic. agreed. *obviously the ar is a better weapon*, but the hmg serves it's purpose, and does a better job now that it can hit at range. to the op: tl;dr Again it shouldn't be its a jack of all trades not a master at heavy slaughter. 1 of 3 things need to happen: buff to dmg, range, or heavy survivability.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 270	Posted - 2013.07.04 02:37:00 - [43] - Quote low genius wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm afraid I simply can't take you seriously when you suggest a damage buff that drastic. agreed. obviously the ar is a better weapon, but the hmg serves it's purpose, and does a better job now that it can hit at range. to the op: tl;dr what does tl:dr even mean?
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 270	Posted - 2013.07.04 03:00:00 - [44] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: Again it shouldn't be its a jack of all trades not a master at heavy slaughter. 1 of 3 things need to happen: buff to dmg, range, or heavy survivability. Agreed. i never wanted and still dnt want the HMG to be overpowered. but, is it to much t ask to make th eHMG as good at what its supposed to do as an AR? lol think about it ARs have similar dps to a HMG with no draw-backs, the HMG does only marginally better DPS compared to the AR with so many down sides its outclassed. basically the AR just plain outclasses the HMG in every respect. the HMG needs to have that high damage to give it a purpose. this is a GEK ARs dps without damage mods, the blanket 10%, or proficiency. 469.75 if someone wanted to for go shield tankng to use damage mods on a proto suit, with 4 complex damage mods, the blanket 10% and proficiency (this isn't too farfetched because many people have proficiency in ARs and use complex mods) that dps becomes 469.75 and an additional 53% damage to a total of 718.2 dps. if someone wanted to use their AR as an HMG they could easily do so.* And because the AR is so accurate you can drop people instantly. but offcourse, most people would rather tank as hard as a heavy instead of doing this (although they could use the mods and armor tank) so they stack shield extenders and regulators, and just slap a GEK on their suit and wala... 588 shields, that replenish instantly no movement penalty and a gun that in less than 2 seconds can do the same damage as an HMG. *if your wondering for comparisons sake the HMGs max damage potential ill tell you. the ADV HMG does a total of 630 dps without damage mods proficeiny or blanket 10%. with 2 damage mods (the max possible on a HVY suit), 10% and 15% proficiency, i do 900.9 dps. when you subtract the bullets that dnt hit do to dispersion that number does dwon really fast (at 35% disperion thats 315dps that hits the ground around your target, effectively reducing you effective dps to 585)
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 162	Posted - 2013.07.04 03:05:00 - [45] - Quote Only thing they need to do with Heavies is MAYBE increase damage resistance, so they can do their job, and tank it. They were meant to be a type of defender. Now they're being re-purposed for just amazingly terrifying Assaults (Given you have enough HP in it...).
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 214	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:25:00 - [46] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Only thing they need to do with Heavies is MAYBE increase damage resistance, so they can do their job, and tank it. They were meant to be a type of defender. Now they're being re-purposed for just amazingly terrifying Assaults (Given you have enough HP in it...). commandon't is in no way terrifying lol it still slow, and is no use in a brawl, its for fringe of batle use only. 612 hp is not anything in a heavy frame with a huge hitbox and still slower than everyone else by about .7 or 8
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 109	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:36:00 - [47] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: what does tl:dr even mean? Too long; didn't read.
DoomLead Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 80	Posted - 2013.07.04 06:24:00 - [48] - Quote honest fix for the heavy suit is to either fix the turn speed and add a slot giving the suit a total of four at basic 5 at advanced and 6 at proto and change the suit bonus to something to boost either damage, increase speed, or increase hit points because increase reload speed is useless when there is a skill for it now the fix for the hmg is to just increase the effective range to 45m or increase damage to mirror the smg this is either or not both
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 7	Posted - 2013.07.04 06:41:00 - [49] - Quote Maybe CCP will eventually make the heavy suit the only suit capable of having massive amounts of HP. I don't know why CCP allows medium suits the capability to run so much HP. You don't need a slow heavy defender when you can just as easily defend with a medium suit with massive HP. I feel bad for heavy suited players. Increase the high power slots on the heavy to stack more complex damage mods, that might be what's needed. Give players a reason to fear the heavy suit.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 270	Posted - 2013.07.04 07:05:00 - [50] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Only thing they need to do with Heavies is MAYBE increase damage resistance, so they can do their job, and tank it. They were meant to be a type of defender. Now they're being re-purposed for just amazingly terrifying Assaults (Given you have enough HP in it...). commandon't is in no way terrifying lol it still slow, and is no use in a brawl, its for fringe of batle use only. 612 hp is not anything in a heavy frame with a huge hitbox and still slower than everyone else by about .7 or 8 edit: im not saying it doesnt have a place but its place is headhunting in an LAV (gek+swarm+LAV+Commandont STD=22-3) its a nice i dea, but its kind of a waste of ISK and SP in that it costs much more than a regular suit. My 'dren' caldari suit with 1 militia shield extender, 1 complex damage mod, and 2 basic plates has more ehp and fire power than the commando suit. the suit won't survive longe enough to use its second primary.

D legendary hero Strong-Arm 270	Posted - 2013.07.04 07:07:00 - [51] - Quote Stile451 wrote: D legendary hero wrote: what does tl:dr even mean? Too long; didn't read. thanks
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 270	Posted - 2013.07.04 07:07:00 - [52] - Quote Eno Raef wrote: Maybe CCP will eventually make the heavy suit the only suit capable of having massive amounts of HP. I don't know why CCP allows medium suits the capability to run so much HP. You don't need a slow heavy defender when you can just as easily defend with a medium suit with massive HP. I feel bad for heavy suited players. Increase the high power slots on the heavy to stack more complex damage mods, that might be what's needed. Give players a reason to fear the heavy suit. Agree one hundred percent.
nukel head Knights of No Republic 38	Posted - 2013.07.05 00:27:00 - [53] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: nukel head wrote: I didn't read the whole post honestly, but I stopped reading when you were basically saying that your lower level and non armored heavy suit lost to a proto assault. Why wouldn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if it got completely owned by a proto scout with nova knives either. I am starting to understand that the mindset a lot of heavies have is that they should be almost invincible to anything else on the battlefield. That is simply not the case. They are definitely tougher and comparing level for level with other suits are superior in that respect. If I run assault and go head to head with a heavy that is properly fitted and knows what he is doing, I almost never win. On the other hand, if I catch him out in the open or in a position where I can outmaneuver him then the odds go the other way. How is that not balanced? The Underlined words say everything that you know about how it should be. It is as to saying that a knight in chainmail armor and a Mace can, and should most likely be, better then a Knight in full Plate Armor , with a Horse and a hand and a half. Making the HMG more Accurate, or making accuracy get better overtime faster would solve the problem. Its the Fact that 75%+ Shots are just Flying into the Dust as you try to kill a Proto AR user, while he Spews Laser Precise Accurate rounds. And when I say Laser accurate, I mean that it is basically Point and Spam R1. The Bullets Line up so neatly that, unless you when Frame by frame, the Path the Bullets Follow look like basically one line How is your comparison in ANY WAY remotely related? I don't recall ever seeing a heavy on a horse. As a matter of fact, a heavy is SUPPOSED TO BE LESS MOBILE AND HAVE LESS RANGE. Remove the horse, and you might be getting closer.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 234	Posted - 2013.07.05 01:42:00 - [54] - Quote I don't know. I usually do fine in my heavy suit, but then I'm a dedicated Forge Gunner. When it comes down to it, the basic drawbacks and benefits of the heavy don't support the supposition that they should be in close combat. Understanding that, it's why I don't run a HMG which is intended to be in CQC where the heavy suit is weakest.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2157	Posted - 2013.07.05 02:28:00 - [55] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm afraid I simply can't take you seriously when you suggest a damage buff that drastic. Ignore him. It's obvious he wants the HMG to be an AR, only better in every way. Typical. I got into a match where my entire team got BRUTALLY ASSRAPED by 4 Sentinels who stayed around each null cannon terminal in the city (there were 3) and only attacked people at close range. HMGs are not under-powered. Analyze how you're using them, and I think you'll see the problem is with you.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 273	Posted - 2013.07.05 05:05:00 - [56] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I'm afraid I simply can't take you seriously when you suggest a damage buff that drastic. Ignore him. It's obvious he wants the HMG to be an AR, only better in every way. Typical. I got into a match where my entire team got BRUTALLY ASSRAPED by 4 Sentinels who stayed around each null cannon terminal in the city (there were 3) and only attacked people at close range. HMGs are not under-powered. Analyze how you're using them, and I think you'll see the problem is with you. thats funny, because my team got WTF pwned by an enemy team full of caldari logs with over 900 ehp. in fact every match i played since ISK transfers became a thing, i've faced nothing but caldari logis that completely owned my heavy suit. in fact, i one v oned a guy named firehouseHD, who out gunned my HMG with a duvoule in close quarters killing my with a total of 1001 damage in less than 2 seconds. you even told me that he only had lvl three AR proficeincy. i can't even get mad at him. obviously the caldari suits are ding what they need to do. but my heavy needs a buff. @the guy wanting me to compare the heavy suit proto to an assault/meduim suit proto. ok, i already showed that a milita Ar has comparable damage to an HMG, now i will show that the proto heavy suit is nothing to a STD meduim frame. (for the ease of comparison we will not factor in the skills that increase shields or efficacy. assume either both have them max or neither has them max) ref. (210 shield 120 armor caldari base) (basic heavy base 405/405) (commando 250/250) MEDIUM FRAMES STD caldari meduim frame= 2 high and 2 low slots. (nonracial) 2 x complex shield extenders = 132 2 x complex armor plates = 230 342/350 total ehp = 692 ADV caldari medium frame = 3 high and 2 low (non racial) 3 x complex shield extenders = 198 2 x complex armor plates = 230 408/350 total ehp = 758 proto caldari medium frame = 4 high and 3 low (non racial) 4 x complex shield extenders = 264 3 x complex armor plates = 345 474/465 total ehp = 939 ehp^ ^including the proficiencies and everything this number clears 1000 ehp HVYs* Basic proto heavy= 2 high and 3 low 2 x complex shield extenders = 132 3 x complex armor plates = 345 537/745 total ehp = 1282 sentinal proto heavy= 1 high and 4 low 1 x complex shield extenders = 66 4 x complex armor plates = 460 471/865 total ehp = 1336 Conclusion As you can see the ehp of caldari gear comes so close to that of heavy gear at every level that heavy gear becomes obsolete. the standard caldari non-racial medium frame can easily out clase the commando suit. and the heavy suit with its extremely low mobility, turn speed, and large hit box only has about 200-300 more ehp to show for it. which in terms of dps and ARs amounts to 1 more second of fire that is required. since the heavy is easy to hit, the suit is obsolete. problem? *commando is useless... commando proto= 2 high 2 x complex shield extenders = 132 382/250 total ehp = 632 The commando is a failure as with a caldari medium frame (none racial), 2 basic shield extenders, 1 reactive plate and 1 basic armor plates gives you just as much (slightly more) ehp than a commando suit (if i put 2 basic armor pplates my ehp becomes much higher than commando base hp). if i have the skills into increasing basic shield and armor my ehp does higher. and just so that you know the commando suit doesn't get any slots until it reaches the proto lvl and even those are lack luster.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 273	Posted - 2013.07.05 05:06:00 - [57] - Quote BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy Likes received: 302 #102 Posted: 2013.06.05 03:41 \| Report \| Edited by: BL4CKST4R Like 3 Caldari Logistics NO racial EHP: 843 Caldari Logistics racial EHP: 934 <-- holy sh... Gallente Logistics EHP: 698 Caldari Assault EHP: 846 Gallente Assault EHP: 773 Gallente Assault 6% speed buff EHP: 828 Gallente Logistics 6% speed buff EHP: 753 CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot EHP: 770 _________ Amarr Assault EHP:811 Amarr Logistics EHP:736 Minmatar Assault EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow... Minmatar Logistics EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules Armor/Shield balance needs to be balanced at the suit level first, then work on buffing the armor modules themselves. Doing so would move the Amarr and Minmatar to the top of the OP list, while balancing the Gallente and Caldari in the bottom end.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 293	Posted - 2013.07.09 16:06:00 - [58] - Quote bump
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2013.07.09 16:26:00 - [59] - Quote After Uprising, it was obvious to me that CCP would not take the heavy seriously and give it a fighting chance over medium suits. Therefore, I like the majority of everyone else moved to the medium suits when I finally got a respec. The Caldari logi isn't the only medium suit that can amass high HP, it simply does it better. It seems that CP wants everyone to use medium suits when they give so many high and low module slots that allow it to have more hp than a base heavy. Players have no reason to run a heavy when the medium suit can do it better.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 318	Posted - 2013.07.09 18:45:00 - [60] - Quote ^^my point exactly.



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