Ignore him.
It's obvious he wants the HMG to be an AR, only better in every way.

I didn't read the whole post honestly, but I stopped reading when you were basically saying that your lower level and non armored heavy suit lost to a proto assault. Why wouldn't it?

Allow me to grace you with a logical answer.

You are suggesting over a 50% damage buff to the HMG. Right now, the HMG has significantly higher damage output than an AR, balanced by the dispersion. The range was previously a problem, but this has been much improved by the range fix in Uprising 1.2. The length of this post shows that you didn't consider the effect of 1.2 - it's too long and it was posted too shortly after the patch to have been the product of careful, up to date testing.

If you buffed the damage of the HMG by 50-80%, it would completely decimate literally everything in a second, including other heavies. Recoil does not balance this - recoil on the HMG is hardly a concern. Overheating does not balance this - you are an awful player if you overheat your HMG. Reload speed does not balance this - you have a gigantic clip size. Range does not balance this - This has been improved significantly with 1.2. Dispersion is the only thing that might come close to preventing that from being completely overpowered - except, of course, the damage output is so high that you reach AR level dps at that range even if the target is only slightly in the reticule.

The HMG may need some tweaking, but nothing nearly that drastic. Your numbers are horribly biased and taken from outliers from the other classes whilst comparing it against the weakest examples of your own class.

In addition to this insane HMG buff, you suggest making heavies much more durable. I agree with the turn speed issue, but your suggestions drastically increase the survivability of heavies. ~40% resistance to small arms fire is a huge bonus - and you're suggesting adding more slots on top of that.

Consider this: If your proposed 'fixes' went through, why would anyone use anything other than a heavy?

Interesting. If the HMG is so terrible and the AR so epic...why don't you just use the AR? Last time I checked it would fit into that big muscley heavy weapon slot just fine. Would only take a day or two worth casual play to skill into those as well.

Thank you for making a suggestion. That said, I think HMG are designed as a defensive tool not offensive. They are designed for close contact at objectives.

Did you get a chance to try the Commando suit, which is a Heavy designed for mobility and mid range engagements? If so what are the results?

So having played a good chunk of the day today, HMG does get outperformed at range, and its still pretty shite unless they are only a few feet from you. However, it doesn't need AR damage per bullet. It should follow the SMG path of per shot progression of damage. "but you have an assault hmg thats what thats for if you want range"... it does less damage the Assault SMG does more damage... Why should it follow SMG damage progression? because they are both a Minmatar weapon. It makes zero sense that a smaller weapon would do more damage than a bigger one (Sub vs Heavy MG). At minimum they should be using the same bullet, if not a bigger one for the HMG. Bigger = more damage its physics and it applies cuz these are ballistic weapons. Now if we got this damage increase we wouldn't need a range increase falloff would do its job and at range we would do less damage. (to be perfectly fair its an HMG go goolgle them by all rights they should outperform most guns just be bulky and have crappy accuracy because of that bulk since they are uually attached to bases/vehicles [of course if we had more AI weapons maybe a gun that doesnt spool up to obtain accuracy would do more damage but thats on CCP not us])

As for the heavy suit itself if hmg dmg went up a lot of bitvhing about the heavy suit would disappear. The problem for why we feel so weak is long we have to shoot someone to kill them. While we are shooting our gun we slow down,and the moment we spool it down we loose accuracy. Conversely if we had more suvivability we wouldnt feel a need for HMG buffs.

Finally the commando, the commando is not made for brawls whatsoever. When trying to fight front line style it gets owned. It just nor fast enough and has no way to boost ehp significantly (2 his and 1 low at PROTO) so its again an issue of we have to pick damage or tank. Whereas other suits can fit 1 or 2 damage mods plus a tank. "wah wah it has higher ehp" garbage its still the second to last slowest suit, same turn speed, same hitbox. So an increase to tank would help it (ie damage resistance rather than 2% module efficiency when it only gets 3 modules...[a whole other can of worms]) The commando accels in a LAV or camping. I went 9/2 13/2 7/4 and 11/3 while cruising in an LAV and jumpin out to kill loners or swarm other LAVs/vehicles.

Edit: meant to add a caveat for the google comment, I'm not trying to compare it to modern day weapons, Im simply using english to define something (well technically 2). If its not an HMG then they need to change its name. Same with the heavy suit description because unless everyone is running MLT (the heavy and tanks included) it does not live up to its description.

to add to what D legendary said

I cannot take any Caldari Logistics Dropsuit seriously since people run around in them like an assault suit instead of what they are intended for or that they recharge their shields faster than anyone. I will admit I am an AR user but MAJORITY OF THE DUST PLAYERS USE AR's. Why? It is the only gun that can tear though shields and armor evenly and easily. This game is a joke at this point (having 7.4 million SP, 3.23 KDR, 774,397 WP and still get my ass handed to by people proto stumping in public matches). I heavily look down upon people Prototype stumping in public matches (mostly Caldari Logistics or anything for that matter) with little no effort put into the game (please do not suggest way of stopping this because everyone said the same old story and dance). I already foreseen the future for this game. BF4 and COD are just going to take over in November leaving Dust behind with the dust of failure.

OP I can tell you're very hardheaded and set in your ways. I don't want to insult you, but as a Heavy I can safely say that most of your argument has very little to do with Heavies as a whole and more to do with the fact that every so often you can't compete with people who have put in the time and money to get twice as much SP as you.

I would suggest skilling up Armor Upgrades and Shield Upgrades. That'll get your base shields and armor to 506 each. That alone will boost your performance quite a bit. Try out Damage Modifiers. Try different loadouts and tactics.

I feel where you're coming from, but your arguments are only backed by your personal experience and your suggestions are a bit drastic.

IMHO, the reason HMG heavy is viewed as underpowered in it's current state is because it's intended role on the battlefield is wrong. HMG heavy is forced to go mid-close range to be effective, and this is not what it's supposed to be doing. He should play the role of LMG soldier in RL infantry (I'm sure someone already mentioned this on the forums, but can't remember who).

HMG heavy should be able to:

Effectively lay suppressive fire on the enemy at medium to long ranges. He should actually prevent the mid-close range enemy from getting too close to him and his squad mates, and help his mid-close squad mates get closer to the enemy.
Heavy suit should have enough tank to withstand enemy fire from medium-long ranges, at least long enough to spray enough bullets to make the enemy take cover. A HMG should be accurate enough to aim and hit someone at medium ranges. This does not mean AR accurate, but accurate enough that any non-heavily tanked enemy will either immediately have to take cover, or risk death. At long ranges it should be able to at least spray the area with bullets, providing some sort of covering fire / area denial.

HMG heavy should not be able to:

Excel at CQC. Although it's slow movement / turning speed have already pretty much taken care of that, there are still people who think a HMG heavy should be a CQC brawler, and whine about heavies being too slow / inert / undertanked. A heavy suit should be WTFPWNED by a shotgun scout IF he gets in close. That is pretty much already true if a scout player has decent skills and knows what he's doing. Also, HMG heavy should not be a solo-pwnmobile. He should play a squad support role. A HMG heavy should need his squad mates as much as his squad mates need him.


So, basically, most of what's needed is already there, except the horribly short range of HMG, and maybe enough accuracy to really be effective at mid range.

Meanwhle you're still making a profit........

alright solution to problem B go to options and increase your X-interval/sesivtivity like all the other tankers

LOUD NOISES!!!

Heavies are overpowered the guy carrying a minigun out gunned my AR...

STD assaults aren't as good as Proto heavies

ARs need to do just as much damage as HMGs (the first month of uprising)

Heavies have too much tank... and can do too much stuff, they a gonna be fat assualt suits... wah wah

Heavies are still too fast... *runs to mom crying* ...



these are the same exact complaints that assualts and ARs have been saying and look what happened...lol CCP listened to them and ruined the game. they were upset that the heavies the counter infantry were doing the job, and so we were nerfed to 12 damage per round, with no range. then they increased it to 18, but gave a blanket 10 across the board to ARs as well. with thier superior range and similar firepower the purpose to the HMG became lost.

most of the problems we have right now, save the caldari logi's would be resolved if the HMG was a threat and could supress like they used too.

granted sharpshooter made the AHMGs range rediculous (although it was really that combined twith no stacking penalty on complex damage mods), but the used thor's nerf hammer to crack down on heaves like crime in the 'hood'.

With the unnecessary amount of range that CCP gave everybody. You guys don't need a buff

agreed. obviously the ar is a better weapon, but the hmg serves it's purpose, and does a better job now that it can hit at range.

to the op: tl;dr

Again it shouldn't be its a jack of all trades not a master at heavy slaughter. 1 of 3 things need to happen: buff to dmg, range, or heavy survivability.

commandon't is in no way terrifying lol it still slow, and is no use in a brawl, its for fringe of batle use only. 612 hp is not anything in a heavy frame with a huge hitbox and still slower than everyone else by about .7 or 8

edit: im not saying it doesnt have a place but its place is headhunting in an LAV (gek+swarm+LAV+Commandont STD=22-3)

Too long; didn't read.

Maybe CCP will eventually make the heavy suit the only suit capable of having massive amounts of HP. I don't know why CCP allows medium suits the capability to run so much HP. You don't need a slow heavy defender when you can just as easily defend with a medium suit with massive HP.

I feel bad for heavy suited players. Increase the high power slots on the heavy to stack more complex damage mods, that might be what's needed. Give players a reason to fear the heavy suit.

Typical.

I got into a match where my entire team got BRUTALLY ASSRAPED by 4 Sentinels who stayed around each null cannon terminal in the city (there were 3) and only attacked people at close range.

HMGs are not under-powered. Analyze how you're using them, and I think you'll see the problem is with you.

My post proves what? I was asking the question because I very rarely see a heavy sporting an AR. Why would that be is the AR is so powerful? Or are we talking about PROTO AR?

We've tried hitting things with most every gun in the game (ok, I haven't tried the plasma cannon). Everyone has the same wacky aiming system and the enemies don't run any slower for anyone else. I use the GEK, but not when enemies get close because despite the really epic sounding numbers you posted, it is very difficult to hit with in close. I get most of my CQC kills with my STD SMG sidearm. Actually, I can do a lot more damage to heavies with it than I can my AR if I can get close. I guess it's OP?

Well I think the HMG should do 100/100, even though it is a Minmatar weapon we really need it to do equal damage to armor and shields. If the above was set, which it will in the near future (hopefully under 5 years from now ), and the HMG did 100/100 there is no living soul brave enough to charge at you because they will be instantly dropped. It would require a really good scout with a MD or a shotgun, or at least two people to take down a heavy. Now imagine a heavy backed by a core focused repair tool that did not discriminate (shield and armor repair) he would be the ultimate wall.

Hey look, he's back, and still smoking crack.

Fixing armor tanking fixes heavies. It just happens that it fixes the amarr assault and logi as well as the gallente assault, logi and scout all at once.

Go effing figure. fixing the intended method of tanking makes the suits viable? Interesting concept.

this is all heavies need: Armor tanking which is as viable as shield tanking.

And ferroscale and reactive plates not to suck.

sorry but HMGs hit hard enough... heavy suits are buffed enough.... turning slow balances their incredible power.

on my alt which I just started I run heavies... a bp eon heavy suit with basic HMG and I murder mercs with it.


they are not...

heavies fortify a position they are defensive and they are amazing at that job.

also... you aren't running proto...anything proto will be tougher than your basic heavy suit by design... its supposed to be that way... get into a boundless suit and then see how you feel...

judging by your post you seem to think a heavy is a front line troop who charges into battle.

u use over 200round of an hmg just to kill a single player...


i was suggesting a slower rof to fix it..


but heavy suit is too weak for its true roles..

it needs a buff in base hp..

since meduim suits can get that amount of hp easily.

and the heavy suit needs a buff in overall damage resistance oh and mlt ars.

a full clip will bring a heavy with full shield and armor down to half armor.

thats if all rounds hit.


the heavy suit is to slow ppl jump around all over the place and focus fire on heavys..

im sure every1 yells at there position the second they r seen.

they r pursued relentlessly across the entire map.

and any gun will melt there shields and tear their armor really fast..


while scout suits can dogde nearly every bullet that come at them and assualt can dogde some of that fire too....

ppl swarm on heavies shooting them from all directions.

its really unfair not being able to shoot back when players can run around u so easily the only time heavies will kill.. narrows hall way with little cover or if the heavy sets up a kill zone area//


but they have to use more cover than any other suit since they r so slow.

and im sure there more to say but i cant think of it right now..

but they do always have to look both ways before crossing the road. they might get splattered by an lav...