Just Right.

I think SL are probably the most balanced weapons in the game.

Only people who drive about in full LAVs without spenting the 5000 isk or so sticking extra buffer complain about them

I miss lots of kills with my SL because some people know how to buff and drive.

SL punishes poor/foolish drivers.

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor.

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor.

I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo.

People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor.

CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem

I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead.


Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well.

What about a more intelligent flight system? The rockets, at times, seem to be able to avoid just splatting into whatever is in front of them and other times they seem to be unable to do anything but fly in a straight line. And why do the rockets always track to the rear of the vehicle? This is the future, right? Why do they seem to have the tracking package of a WWII scud?

I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo.

People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor.

CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem

I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead.


Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well.

Uhuh. Is this in one shot? If not, you should probably be retreating after you hear the swarms coming your way anyway.

I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo.

People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor.

CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem

I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead.


Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well.

Plus, IRL one demolitions infantryman can carry enough C4 to cripple most tanks.

That is one shot. And saying you should be retreating when you see swarms. Problem is if you are going to be working with your team you are going to be up in the action. All it takes is for the swarmer to get a high point and it is really easy for them to drop 3 volleys even if you start running when you see them. It takes about 10 seconds to drop all 3 volleys probably. and sometimes ur next corner or hill is alot farther then 10 seconds away to hide behind if they are on high enough vantage point.

Standard tank + proto mods =/= fully proto and if you are letting people get in range to hit you with a grenade I have some bad news, yes you are doing it wrong especially if they have the time to lock on a swarm at a range close enough to hit you with grenades

I'd love to see the numbers on that.

1 missle = 330 Dmg
Proto SL = 6 missles = 1980 Dmg.

You'd have to more than double your damage to get to 5000.

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.

Your math is slightly off, but I get the picture.

Vs. Armor tanks, Swarms are the ticket. They're good to go right now. Why? Because that's the only thing that's going to bring the damn things down! Forge guns certainly cant do it. I've got Proto Forge w/ Proficency 3 and complex mods, and I do jack all against armor tanks.

Flip the scenario for Shield Tanks. Swarms don't do *jack*, even with Proto Swarms and complex mods.

It's all about having the right AV for the job. Hell, that's why I spec'd both to proto.

Problem is what damage mods give right now I am not fully sure on how they are working but between damage mods and then the 20% damage increase on swarms your able to hit insane alpha damage.

This is going to boil into another nerf demand, I'll betcha a million trillion dollars it will.

Think about it this way: Do you want cooler vehicles like MAVs, Fighter Jets, and MTACS to be designed on the current lopsided vehicle balance we have now where a LLAV has more survivability than a tank?

But with the sl you are also a sitting duck for snipers and infantry since you have to rely on your sidearm.

I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo.

People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor.

CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem

I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead.


Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well.

But with a tank ur a sitting duck to all forms of AV other tank. groups of infantry that just need to run AV grenades. we are told to run with full squads to defend our selves. Yet that makes no since because AV can hide on top of buildings and big hills overlooking that battle field very easy and easily kill a tank by themselves.

Sorry ur excuse is stupid. And also I run around with a Scram pistol/nova knifes on my alt I have a 3+ K/D using a scout suit. so Ya side arms work great. That is no excuse.

Too agile - 270deg turns on the spot

Too invisible - Cant see them half the time

Hmm, I could totally see this as the description of LAV's

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.

Yeah, no kidding.... how can something as large as a LAV not appear on your radar until it runs you over!?!

Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.

They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.

Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.

A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.

To hit 5000 damage with a SL would require a 150% increase in your damage. My initial post was just to state that this is not possible, not to argue the dynamics of tanking.

Proto Swarm Launcher: 330 x 6 = 1980

Direct hit to the bottom rear of the tank: 200% of 1980 = 3960

Explosive damage against Armour: +20% of 3960 = 792 + 3960 = 4752

Then add Damage mods bonuse.

Note: All 6 missiles would have to hit that small sweet spot on the back end of the tank for this to happen. It is like getting a head shot.

Also note that this does not factor in the tanksGÇÖs resistance mods.

I think the missile speed itself is alright and the lock on time is pretty much where it needs to be
The real problem is the huge gap between firing and being able to start the lock on process again or even reload or switch weapons, if that was removed it would be a boon to the weapon without making it overly strong

Ahhh, I didn't realize that there was a crit spot on tanks. Still backpedaling for the win.

With either Uprising 1.0 or 1.1 (think it was 1.0), the speed of missiles from tanks and installations was increased significantly, and now they make a very satisfying noise as they go towards you. +1 for this, I think everyone is happy.

But now the question turns to swarm launchers:

-They require a lock-on time, unlike any of the other batteries or the other hand-held AV weapons.
-Tradeoff - They track your target

However, the time-to-target is significantly slower than then other handheld AV weapons, they cannot be dumb-fired or used against personnel, and due to the mobility of LAVs, some tanks and drop ships, it is easy to maneuver behind cover and avoid incoming missiles that have already been fired.

Rather than increasing damage or reducing lock time, or making the swarms into some kind of dumb-fire AV/anti-personnel weapon, here's my suggestion"

Should swarms have their missile speed increased?

Is the speed fine the way it is?

Should they be slowed even more?


What do you guys think?

I'm not sure what tankers want, us to be chasing them down with mass drivers or flaylocks?

The biggest problem with the swarm is the dead time between firing your rounds. I use the specialist swarm launcher so between the extended lock on time and the time that you can't reload, or even lock on any thing leaves a good 10 seconds that I'm standing there twiddling my thumbs. If the time between shots is intentional they should add a message on screen saying something like "Targeting system recalibrating."

Add that to the extreme lag in throwing grenades and that makes up close swarm launching a death wish for close range.

With either Uprising 1.0 or 1.1 (think it was 1.0), the speed of missiles from tanks and installations was increased significantly, and now they make a very satisfying noise as they go towards you. +1 for this, I think everyone is happy.

But now the question turns to swarm launchers:

-They require a lock-on time, unlike any of the other batteries or the other hand-held AV weapons.
-Tradeoff - They track your target

However, the time-to-target is significantly slower than then other handheld AV weapons, they cannot be dumb-fired or used against personnel, and due to the mobility of LAVs, some tanks and drop ships, it is easy to maneuver behind cover and avoid incoming missiles that have already been fired.

Rather than increasing damage or reducing lock time, or making the swarms into some kind of dumb-fire AV/anti-personnel weapon, here's my suggestion"

Should swarms have their missile speed increased?

Is the speed fine the way it is?

Should they be slowed even more?


What do you guys think?

I think the missile speed itself is alright and the lock on time is pretty much where it needs to be
The real problem is the huge gap between firing and being able to start the lock on process again or even reload or switch weapons, if that was removed it would be a boon to the weapon without making it overly strong

I think I know where you're coming from, but that is more issues than just the swarm launcher. I was just anticipating the reaction that as soon as a weapon is performing adequately the people being killed by it say it's OP and needs nerf'd to hell.

I'd like to think our community as a whole are beyond crying nerf outside of a few cryhards. This seems to be more about weapon balance to the point that pilots get an equal amount of bang for their buck and AVers have more fun burning that money they bring on the field. Face it, when was the last time we destroyed a tank and felt like it was an accomplishment instead of a chore?

Not many people know about the sweat spot. It was found by a guy pointing his weapon at various parts of a friendly tank and looking at the efficacy % that is displayed. The highest if I remember correctly was 200% efficacy when pointing at the lower back of the tank. On the sides there is an increased efficiency near the bottom as well, but less than 200%. Of course we canGÇÖt aim a Swarm Launcher at a specific part of the tank, but judging from some of the complaints in this thread, it sounds like the missiles try for the sweat spot.

Caeli SineDeo does have a valid point. He may overstate it a bit, but he is a tank driver posting in an AV thread, so that is understandable. The problem is not with the Swarm Launcher however. This is simply another case of a weapon being balanced around stuff that is not yet in the game.

First off so all you guys understand Proto tanks are already in the game. Enforcers/Mauraders. Fully pimping out a Enforcer takes 16m Skill points. Going into both types of tanks is going to cost 20m skill points. If they actually add a teir of tank above this tankers are going to be putting in 30m SP to build a proper tank.

But as I said look in game when you aim it says PRO. Which means proto tank. CCP would not label it that if they expected to have higher teir tanks. They will have a few tech 2 tanks aka the black ops. But they are specialty tanks. Usually not ment for battling but filling specialty rolls.

So proto tanks are in. THey are ****.

Now do you see me attacking for a nerf no. I am just pointing out the facts that swarms are already powerful and their needs to be balancing. I am sorry but currently the only good vehicles in the game are LAVs. why the hell are LAVs the best vehicle in the game. Well CCP is full of a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing.. They do not work to cross check their **** and see how it effects things properly. And they are failing at dust currently. For ever 2 foward on one thing they take 10 steps back. They listen to their numbers way to much and then from there they listen to the community who most members of the community do not understand mechanics they know something is wrong and yell for change but they do not truely understand what is wrong so they all band on a common thought that usually does not help fix things.

First off AV gets **** for their work. usually in most games doing AV is extremely benificial. Here it is worthless. You get paid nothing and make crap for SP. They need to rework the system. So AVing actually feels like a roll. This means tank v tank battles become more common because their is chances for tankers to make out on isk.

After you get a stable system here and buff HAVs and rework them a little so their is more balance between them. From there if certain AV needs small buffs you can do that. Small buff not nerf havs buff AV at the same time like they have done in the past.

Now HAVS are the most skill intensive part of the game in my mind. If you do it properly you change the tide of the game. It is also the most SP expensive role in the game to do properly. If you do not spend 10m SP about into HAVs ur just dead. All other havs are going to beat you. And AV has no trouble because you do not have the moduals needed to survive.


HAVs use to be a tactical vehicle on the map. People had to rethink what they are doing to take one out. Get 2 guys and strategic location with AV. This equaled diversity and tatics.

Now all it is a forger in a LAV drives up to you jumps out AV nades forges. Or just forges if it is a shield tank. Same with swarms except they come running up to you and bunny hope around ur tank and kill you in 5-10 seconds.

SO all tank drivers are suppose to do now is run around in circles like idiots at full speed to avoid AV because that is the tactical way to do it. Because really if they sit still AV will eat them up before infantry has a chance to turn on AV and kill them.

I am sorry when it takes one AV guy to quickly deal with tanks with no real strategy besides getting up next to it and killing it faster then it can turn on them is broken. Only way someone should expect to deal with a tank if they have 2-3 AV guys with proto AV. Yes then if it takes them 5-10 seconds ya they played smart and got 2-3 AF guys throwing out Alpha damage. they worked together. But soloing something that is suppose to change the battle field. That cost a player all of his SP to build correctly so they are forced to run a tank to do well or run in militant gear and get stomped by the other proto players. I do not know a tanker that can make out on ISK effectively in this game by running his tank and using it to work with his team.

Redline sniping is the only way to keep a tank alive all game against proto AV if you move past the redline you have a 10% chance of keeping the tank alive.

With either Uprising 1.0 or 1.1 (think it was 1.0), the speed of missiles from tanks and installations was increased significantly, and now they make a very satisfying noise as they go towards you. +1 for this, I think everyone is happy.

But now the question turns to swarm launchers:

-They require a lock-on time, unlike any of the other batteries or the other hand-held AV weapons.
-Tradeoff - They track your target

However, the time-to-target is significantly slower than then other handheld AV weapons, they cannot be dumb-fired or used against personnel, and due to the mobility of LAVs, some tanks and drop ships, it is easy to maneuver behind cover and avoid incoming missiles that have already been fired.

Rather than increasing damage or reducing lock time, or making the swarms into some kind of dumb-fire AV/anti-personnel weapon, here's my suggestion"

Should swarms have their missile speed increased?

Is the speed fine the way it is?

Should they be slowed even more?


What do you guys think?

First off so all you guys understand Proto tanks are already in the game. Enforcers/Mauraders. Fully pimping out a Enforcer takes 16m Skill points. Going into both types of tanks is going to cost 20m skill points. If they actually add a teir of tank above this tankers are going to be putting in 30m SP to build a proper tank.

But as I said look in game when you aim it says PRO. Which means proto tank. CCP would not label it that if they expected to have higher teir tanks. They will have a few tech 2 tanks aka the black ops. But they are specialty tanks. Usually not ment for battling but filling specialty rolls.

So proto tanks are in. THey are ****.

Now do you see me attacking for a nerf no. I am just pointing out the facts that swarms are already powerful and their needs to be balancing. I am sorry but currently the only good vehicles in the game are LAVs. why the hell are LAVs the best vehicle in the game. Well CCP is full of a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing.. They do not work to cross check their **** and see how it effects things properly. And they are failing at dust currently. For ever 2 foward on one thing they take 10 steps back. They listen to their numbers way to much and then from there they listen to the community who most members of the community do not understand mechanics they know something is wrong and yell for change but they do not truely understand what is wrong so they all band on a common thought that usually does not help fix things.

First off AV gets **** for their work. usually in most games doing AV is extremely benificial. Here it is worthless. You get paid nothing and make crap for SP. They need to rework the system. So AVing actually feels like a roll. This means tank v tank battles become more common because their is chances for tankers to make out on isk.

After you get a stable system here and buff HAVs and rework them a little so their is more balance between them. From there if certain AV needs small buffs you can do that. Small buff not nerf havs buff AV at the same time like they have done in the past.

Now HAVS are the most skill intensive part of the game in my mind. If you do it properly you change the tide of the game. It is also the most SP expensive role in the game to do properly. If you do not spend 10m SP about into HAVs ur just dead. All other havs are going to beat you. And AV has no trouble because you do not have the moduals needed to survive.


HAVs use to be a tactical vehicle on the map. People had to rethink what they are doing to take one out. Get 2 guys and strategic location with AV. This equaled diversity and tatics.

Now all it is a forger in a LAV drives up to you jumps out AV nades forges. Or just forges if it is a shield tank. Same with swarms except they come running up to you and bunny hope around ur tank and kill you in 5-10 seconds.

SO all tank drivers are suppose to do now is run around in circles like idiots at full speed to avoid AV because that is the tactical way to do it. Because really if they sit still AV will eat them up before infantry has a chance to turn on AV and kill them.

I am sorry when it takes one AV guy to quickly deal with tanks with no real strategy besides getting up next to it and killing it faster then it can turn on them is broken. Only way someone should expect to deal with a tank if they have 2-3 AV guys with proto AV. Yes then if it takes them 5-10 seconds ya they played smart and got 2-3 AF guys throwing out Alpha damage. they worked together. But soloing something that is suppose to change the battle field. That cost a player all of his SP to build correctly so they are forced to run a tank to do well or run in militant gear and get stomped by the other proto players. I do not know a tanker that can make out on ISK effectively in this game by running his tank and using it to work with his team.

Redline sniping is the only way to keep a tank alive all game against proto AV if you move past the redline you have a 10% chance of keeping the tank alive.

Yeah, I think the only thing that needs to be worked on with the SL is it's lock-on mechanism. Personally I think they need to lock-on faster or have a skill to make them do that. They should also lock-on to what I'm aiming at; not the supply depot behind it and most definitely not the turret further back up on the hill that isn't even in the target box. They also need to be able to re-engage slightly quicker. They also need a manual disengage for when it does lock-on to something you didn't want it to; I shouldn't have to turn around for 2 seconds to disengage the lock.

Should have just gone Swarm and Flux. Flux melts shields and Swarm does armor.

Im sorry i read this post and to me it sounded like a buff tank post. I just want to tell ulyou that i am extremely against the tank being buffed in any way because i was here during the Overpowered tanks era about a year ago in closed beta. Where CCP nerfed all AV by around 20% and buffed all vehicles. I remember it being strictly hell for all players. I remember how proto swarms with damage mods could only flicker tanks sheilds, matlia tanks sheild. Back them it took over 5 proto av sustaining fire over a couple minutes to scare a tank away. After this sad mark on AV history many vowed to never let a tank live long enough to do it again.

Now you say that like its so easy to use a swarm that anybody can pick up a swarm and get tank kills effortlessly. I gurentee you thats not the case as many people in this thread can point out. If your problem isnt about swarms as much as AV nades which do in fact need a slight nerf. I use swarms and i still have a hard enough time killing armor tanks,but the thing is that normally AV nades do a lot of damage and they home in on vehicles.

Swarms are allright now. They wreck armor vehicles but aint so effective vs shields.