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Swarm Launcher Missiles - Too fast, too slow, or just right?

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Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 182	Posted - 2013.06.18 13:49:00 - [1] - Quote With either Uprising 1.0 or 1.1 (think it was 1.0), the speed of missiles from tanks and installations was increased significantly, and now they make a very satisfying noise as they go towards you. +1 for this, I think everyone is happy. But now the question turns to swarm launchers: -They require a lock-on time, unlike any of the other batteries or the other hand-held AV weapons. -Tradeoff - They track your target However, the time-to-target is significantly slower than then other handheld AV weapons, they cannot be dumb-fired or used against personnel, and due to the mobility of LAVs, some tanks and drop ships, it is easy to maneuver behind cover and avoid incoming missiles that have already been fired. Rather than increasing damage or reducing lock time, or making the swarms into some kind of dumb-fire AV/anti-personnel weapon, here's my suggestion" Should swarms have their missile speed increased? Is the speed fine the way it is? Should they be slowed even more? What do you guys think?
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 407	Posted - 2013.06.18 13:52:00 - [2] - Quote I think the missile speed itself is alright and the lock on time is pretty much where it needs to be The real problem is the huge gap between firing and being able to start the lock on process again or even reload or switch weapons, if that was removed it would be a boon to the weapon without making it overly strong
Ploo-Koon Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 14	Posted - 2013.06.18 13:53:00 - [3] - Quote What about a more intelligent flight system? The rockets, at times, seem to be able to avoid just splatting into whatever is in front of them and other times they seem to be unable to do anything but fly in a straight line. And why do the rockets always track to the rear of the vehicle? This is the future, right? Why do they seem to have the tracking package of a WWII scud?
noob cavman Shadow Company HQ 15	Posted - 2013.06.18 13:54:00 - [4] - Quote Make the missile's aim at the top of the vehicle instead of the bottom so they dont hit every god damn bump in this glitchy terrain. Speed is fine, if you know what you are doing you can get away from me... for awhile
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 766	Posted - 2013.06.18 13:55:00 - [5] - Quote Just Right. I think SL are probably the most balanced weapons in the game. Only people who drive about in full LAVs without spenting the 5000 isk or so sticking extra buffer complain about them I miss lots of kills with my SL because some people know how to buff and drive. SL punishes poor/foolish drivers.
RoundEy3 Metal Mind Industries 88	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:00:00 - [6] - Quote At one time I used to think they were too slow, but once I saw them take a complete U-turn to chase down a LAV who got slowed down after driving all across the battlefield I was impressed. It was at least 8-10 seconds of missile flight time. Their speed balances them pretty well, sometimes you wish the moved faster, and then other times they are just right.
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 182	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:03:00 - [7] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: Just Right. I think SL are probably the most balanced weapons in the game. Only people who drive about in full LAVs without spenting the 5000 isk or so sticking extra buffer complain about them I miss lots of kills with my SL because some people know how to buff and drive. SL punishes poor/foolish drivers. I agree that SL punishes poor/foolish/cheap LAV drivers, but so do Plasma Cannons and Forge guns... and their damage is near-instant. LAVs, particularly logi-lavs, are tanked like crazy. Shouldn't time-to-target be improved to counter this?
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 832	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:10:00 - [8] - Quote Only problem is the 90 Degree turns they do around cover.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 588	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:10:00 - [9] - Quote Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 179	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:14:00 - [10] - Quote I think swarm launcher missiles should have 2 types of flight path. In areas with roofs it should try to hug the terrain and in the open th missile should fly high and drop down on the target. You could even make it a player decision. After lock on if the player keeps the target centred then the missiles hug the ground but if after the tone the player points the launcher at the sky then they will follow a parabolic flight path.

Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 409	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:15:00 - [11] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. You have to be sitting still in the time it takes for three swarms to hit you, travel time of the missiles themselves and the delay between firing and being allowed to start the lock on again give you so much time to move out of the way
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 767	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:19:00 - [12] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. As a swarm launcher user. I kitten wish they would destroy armour tanks in three shots. Okay I admit that the pro launcher can destroy militia tanks in three shots. But only if they dude hasn't fitted a buffer and hasn't activated his rep modules and is sitting in the open like a lemon. But thats no unbalance. Pro anything should own miltia stuff if the player does not use his brain.
DeadlyAztec11 Strong-Arm 509	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:25:00 - [13] - Quote Fine for now, but when jets come in, they will need to be buffed speed wised. I am thinking that it only go faster when targeting fast targets. For example, when the missiles target HAV's, they should go slow. For LAV's they should go medium speed, though, if the LAV speeds up, then the missiles speed up too. Same system would apply to jets, except that the missiles would go even faster. The reason for not making them go fast all the time, lore wise: When the missiles go faster they create more thrust, so they create more thermal energy. The excess heat can cause the missiles to prematurely detonate each other. To compensate for this, the missiles spread even further apart from one another; the faster they go, the more heat they produce, the more they are spread out. In an urban environment it would be more ideal for the missiles to stay close together, so as to avoid hitting any obstacles. So when aiming for slow targets (that would be in a CQC urban environment), it would be ideal to have closely packed missiles. Though, if targeting a jet that would be in the sky (few obstacles except for buildings), it would be ideal to have fast missiles, even if they must be spread out. ~Sincerely, a dedicated A/v player
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 62	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:27:00 - [14] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. Thats more of a problem with armor tanking because when i deal with proto sheild tanks it to akes a lot more then three missels.
Royce Kronos Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 42	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:31:00 - [15] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. Uhuh. Is this in one shot? If not, you should probably be retreating after you hear the swarms coming your way anyway.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 588	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:37:00 - [16] - Quote I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo. People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor. CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead. Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1909	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:46:00 - [17] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo. People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor. CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead. Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well. ^This, all of it. We need more tank v tank combat but we never get it because AV is so obsessed with being able to kill a tank themselves. If anything a single light AV weapon should only soften up a tank. Forge guns should be the only AV allowed to wreck a tank in a single clip.
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 62	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:46:00 - [18] - Quote Ploo-Koon wrote: What about a more intelligent flight system? The rockets, at times, seem to be able to avoid just splatting into whatever is in front of them and other times they seem to be unable to do anything but fly in a straight line. And why do the rockets always track to the rear of the vehicle? This is the future, right? Why do they seem to have the tracking package of a WWII scud? we used to have an intelligent guidence system about a year ago in closed beta. the swarms used to fly to a vehicles last position when fired then turn following there path from there. This used to get any vehicle user wether it was a tank behind a building, a lav zooming through an outpost, or a dropship hovering where there was no line of sight the Swarm Launcher could hit it, but vehicle users could not hide or out manuvere swarms so CCP dumb them down... which imedently lead to the ALL TANKS ARE GOD phase or AV hell as some remember.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 412	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:46:00 - [19] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo. People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor. CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead. Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well. Standard tank + proto mods =/= fully proto and if you are letting people get in range to hit you with a grenade I have some bad news, yes you are doing it wrong especially if they have the time to lock on a swarm at a range close enough to hit you with grenades
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 589	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:46:00 - [20] - Quote Royce Kronos wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. Uhuh. Is this in one shot? If not, you should probably be retreating after you hear the swarms coming your way anyway. That is one shot. And saying you should be retreating when you see swarms. Problem is if you are going to be working with your team you are going to be up in the action. All it takes is for the swarmer to get a high point and it is really easy for them to drop 3 volleys even if you start running when you see them. It takes about 10 seconds to drop all 3 volleys probably. and sometimes ur next corner or hill is alot farther then 10 seconds away to hide behind if they are on high enough vantage point.

Royce Kronos Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 42	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:48:00 - [21] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo. People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor. CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead. Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well. First of all it's you're. I was just addressing the fact that no swarm launcher has 5000 dmg per shot. Are tanks under-powered? Possibly. But remember, you're running STD tanks against PRO AV. It's totally your fault if you let infantry get close enough to land 2 proto packed AV nades. Plus, IRL one demolitions infantryman can carry enough C4 to cripple most tanks.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1910	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:52:00 - [22] - Quote Royce Kronos wrote: Plus, IRL one demolitions infantryman can carry enough C4 to cripple most tanks. But in Dust they beep to let HAV know they're nearby.
Royce Kronos Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 42	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:52:00 - [23] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Royce Kronos wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. Uhuh. Is this in one shot? If not, you should probably be retreating after you hear the swarms coming your way anyway. That is one shot. And saying you should be retreating when you see swarms. Problem is if you are going to be working with your team you are going to be up in the action. All it takes is for the swarmer to get a high point and it is really easy for them to drop 3 volleys even if you start running when you see them. It takes about 10 seconds to drop all 3 volleys probably. and sometimes ur next corner or hill is alot farther then 10 seconds away to hide behind if they are on high enough vantage point. I'd love to see the numbers on that. 1 missle = 330 Dmg Proto SL = 6 missles = 1980 Dmg. You'd have to more than double your damage to get to 5000.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 589	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:52:00 - [24] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a ** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo. People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor. CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead. Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well. Standard tank + proto mods =/= fully proto and if you are letting people get in range to hit you with a grenade I have some bad news, yes you are doing it wrong especially if they have the time to lock on a swarm at a range close enough to hit you with grenades People are lulling themselves if they do not relize the enforcer and the surya/sagaris are not proto tanks. that is CCPs proto tanks. Sorry tanks are not going to get much more tank to them. Tankers are always going to be ****.
RoundEy3 Metal Mind Industries 88	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:54:00 - [25] - Quote This is going to boil into another nerf demand, I'll betcha a million trillion dollars it will.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 589	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:55:00 - [26] - Quote Royce Kronos wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Royce Kronos wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. Uhuh. Is this in one shot? If not, you should probably be retreating after you hear the swarms coming your way anyway. That is one shot. And saying you should be retreating when you see swarms. Problem is if you are going to be working with your team you are going to be up in the action. All it takes is for the swarmer to get a high point and it is really easy for them to drop 3 volleys even if you start running when you see them. It takes about 10 seconds to drop all 3 volleys probably. and sometimes ur next corner or hill is alot farther then 10 seconds away to hide behind if they are on high enough vantage point. I'd love to see the numbers on that. 1 missle = 330 Dmg Proto SL = 6 missles = 1980 Dmg. You'd have to more than double your damage to get to 5000. Problem is what damage mods give right now I am not fully sure on how they are working but between damage mods and then the 20% damage increase on swarms your able to hit insane alpha damage.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 84	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:56:00 - [27] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. Your math is slightly off, but I get the picture. Vs. Armor tanks, Swarms are the ticket. They're good to go right now. Why? Because that's the only thing that's going to bring the damn things down! Forge guns certainly cant do it. I've got Proto Forge w/ Proficency 3 and complex mods, and I do jack all against armor tanks. Flip the scenario for Shield Tanks. Swarms don't do jack, even with Proto Swarms and complex mods. It's all about having the right AV for the job. Hell, that's why I spec'd both to proto.
izmurph D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:57:00 - [28] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. But with the sl you are also a sitting duck for snipers and infantry since you have to rely on your sidearm.
DeadlyAztec11 Strong-Arm 509	Posted - 2013.06.18 14:59:00 - [29] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles. They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage. Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease. A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. Your math is slightly off, but I get the picture. Vs. Armor tanks, Swarms are the ticket. They're good to go right now. Why? Because that's the only thing that's going to bring the damn things down! Forge guns certainly cant do it. I've got Proto Forge w/ Proficency 3 and complex mods, and I do jack all against armor tanks. Flip the scenario for Shield Tanks. Swarms don't do jack, even with Proto Swarms and complex mods. It's all about having the right AV for the job. Hell, that's why I spec'd both to proto. Should have just gone Swarm and Flux. Flux melts shields and Swarm does armor.
Royce Kronos Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 42	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:00:00 - [30] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Problem is what damage mods give right now I am not fully sure on how they are working but between damage mods and then the 20% damage increase on swarms your able to hit insane alpha damage. To hit 5000 damage with a SL would require a 150% increase in your damage. My initial post was just to state that this is not possible, not to argue the dynamics of tanking.



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