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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1911
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
RoundEy3 wrote:This is going to boil into another nerf demand, I'll betcha a million trillion dollars it will. Think about it this way: Do you want cooler vehicles like MAVs, Fighter Jets, and MTACS to be designed on the current lopsided vehicle balance we have now where a LLAV has more survivability than a tank? |
RoundEy3
Metal Mind Industries
88
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:RoundEy3 wrote:This is going to boil into another nerf demand, I'll betcha a million trillion dollars it will. Think about it this way: Do you want cooler vehicles like MAVs, Fighter Jets, and MTACS to be designed on the current lopsided vehicle balance we have now where a LLAV has more survivability than a tank?
I think I know where you're coming from, but that is more issues than just the swarm launcher. I was just anticipating the reaction that as soon as a weapon is performing adequately the people being killed by it say it's OP and needs nerf'd to hell. |
Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
589
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
izmurph wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.
They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.
Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.
A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. But with the sl you are also a sitting duck for snipers and infantry since you have to rely on your sidearm.
But with a tank ur a sitting duck to all forms of AV other tank. groups of infantry that just need to run AV grenades. we are told to run with full squads to defend our selves. Yet that makes no since because AV can hide on top of buildings and big hills overlooking that battle field very easy and easily kill a tank by themselves.
Sorry ur excuse is stupid. And also I run around with a Scram pistol/nova knifes on my alt I have a 3+ K/D using a scout suit. so Ya side arms work great. That is no excuse. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
sheild tanks are hard for Swarm Launchers but once we boil the sheild its like unwraping a candy bar. and vice versa for forge and armor. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1299
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Too agile - 270deg turns on the spot
Too invisible - Cant see them half the time |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
780
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:I laugh so hard when people say you do not know what your doing. Your stupid. You have a **** build. Yes I expect to 1v1 a tank but he must run with full squads. I should easily run solo.
People like you have destroyed this game. Vehicles are slowly becoming a none factor.
CCP wonders why they see no tank vs tank gameplay well the reason is right here. AV fucks tanks up before they actually have a chance to engage each other. Well it is not tanks that are the problem
I have a tank build that I can go against another tank and last for 35+ seconds. Against AV that build drops in 5 seconds if the AV player is smart. This is not because I suck. Sorry but go to any top corp in the game and any top AV player/Tank player they will be able to account for my skill and my abilities. 2 proto packed AV grenades and a volley of proto swarms am dead.
Sorry but no AV weapon should ever bring down a fully proto fit tank in 1 clip of their weapon. I also agree with tanks not being insanely effective at kililng infantry. But they need to be able to do it well.
Thats because AV grenades are way OP.
Btw could you lay off the attacks, I speak to you with respect I'd ask you do the same.
I don't think there are any prototanks in game yet and I've never seen a single AV user take out a single tank on his own. There's always something else shooting at it when it goes down. Even with a protoswarm most tank drivers retreat before they die. Or if they are smarrt they are moving enough that the missiles hit scenery before them.
Your scenereo about being taken out by a team of guys kind of backs up the point that there is a decent balance in the game. It feels like, judging from what you said, that you feel somehow a tank driver should be able to survive an incredible amount of damage with the only true counter being another tank. I can see why you would say that, however if you think about that for a second, you would see, given Dust in its present state, we would go back to replication redlining, with tanks dominating the battlefield. While thats fun for tank drivers its not really fun for anyone else.
Perhaps when the maps open up more vehicles will see more use/have more fun. But right now Im of the opinion, on these maps specifically, bar one, vehicles are largly support for infantry as oppose to main battle weapons. Simply because the advantage of a tank is to project force over long distances faster than infantry can. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:izmurph wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.
They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.
Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.
A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. But with the sl you are also a sitting duck for snipers and infantry since you have to rely on your sidearm. But with a tank ur a sitting duck to all forms of AV other tank. groups of infantry that just need to run AV grenades. we are told to run with full squads to defend our selves. Yet that makes no since because AV can hide on top of buildings and big hills overlooking that battle field very easy and easily kill a tank by themselves. Sorry ur excuse is stupid. And also I run around with a Scram pistol/nova knifes on my alt I have a 3+ K/D using a scout suit. so Ya side arms work great. That is no excuse. If you are sitting in a tank then you're doing it wrong. Just like infantry, tanks should be moving at all times. If you run into a full squad equipped with AV grenades, then you're doing it wrong. Tanks are not the be all and end all. Yes you should be running with a full squad. Why, you ask? The benefits of running with a squad:
- Logistics support: With one logi and a vehicle repper he can rep 105+ armour/sec. If you have two logi's, that can be double. Also, there may be a repair tool that can rep 150+ but I'll have to check that.
- Sniper support: To get those AV hiding on top of buildings and big hills. You can opt for a FG sniper to help with LAV's suicide runs too.
- Infantry support: This will stop those pesky squads with AV nades getting too close to you. If they are all running AV nades, they'll be at a disadvantage when in firefights.
Apart from that, your opponent might just be better than you. Fancy that. |
DeadlyAztec11
Strong-Arm
510
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Too agile - 270deg turns on the spot
Too invisible - Cant see them half the time
Hmm, I could totally see this as the description of LAV's |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
481
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
As an experienced Swarm Launcher user, and the author of Unleashing the Swarm, a guide to being effective with the Swarm Launcher, I will say that the Swarm Launcher is fairly well balanced currently and in a good place. The missile speed is fine.
In order for a vehicle to outrun a Swarm missel they have to be very aware and be a very skilled driver. Also, the slow speed of the Swarm missel allows you to get more than one volley in the air before your target is alerted to the threat by your first volley hitting. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
My apologies for the off topic posts. I would have to agree with Fox Gaden.
An experienced driver can mitigate SL damage by driving close to cover and avoiding some or all missiles fired.
Likewise an experienced SL operator can chose spots where vehicles have the least amount of cover, and use their exposure to maximizes the damage output. |
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Nightbird Aeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission
183
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Too agile - 270deg turns on the spot
Too invisible - Cant see them half the time Hmm, I could totally see this as the description of LAV's
Yeah, no kidding.... how can something as large as a LAV not appear on your radar until it runs you over!?! |
ISuperstar
DIOS X. II
98
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.
They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.
Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.
A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game.
C'mon man, don't try and pretend like swarms are godmode and tanks are always getting the short end of the stick. Unless your a horrible tanker and sitting still after getting hit by the first volley, Swarms are so very easily out run by any type of vehicle. You don't even have to run away you can dip behind a rock and my swarms are now useless. Add to the fact that I have to take the time to lock on, adjust position for terrain interference, have a cooldown to take another shot, and I'm a sitting duck against snipers and a dead duck against any infantry that comes close to me since I have no way to protect myself. I'm pretty sure swarms aren't as godly as you claim they are. |
DeadlyAztec11
Strong-Arm
510
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Too agile - 270deg turns on the spot
Too invisible - Cant see them half the time Hmm, I could totally see this as the description of LAV's Yeah, no kidding.... how can something as large as a LAV not appear on your radar until it runs you over!?! Or why do we seem to spawn in front of LAV's, in the middle of the road. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
484
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:Swarms are actually over powered against armored vehicles.
They can 3 shot armor tanks pretty easy currently. That is a armor tank running 47% resist and the biggest plate. Even with the rep Active you can not keep up with their damage.
Sorry in all aspects it is way to easy to use them and they destroy armored vehicles with ease.
A proper swarm build puts out 5000 damage against armor. That is insane alpha and puts even the breach forge to shame. It takes less time to refire then the breach forge and your 3 times more mobile. Plus it tracks ur target making it impossible to miss. And you can run it on the most mobile suits in the game. 1) We have Proto Swarm Launchers, but we do not yet have Proto tanks.
2) They need to add damage type specific resistance plating. Damage types are: Explosive (Swarms), Kinetic (A much smaller percentage of missile damage), Thermal, and EMP. Damage type specific resistance platting would have much higher resists and allow you to get your resists up to 60 or 70% against Explosive damage. Of course to do so, you would leave a resistance hole for other damage types, but it is that tradeoff that makes it interesting.
So in conclusion, I agree that as an Armour Tank operator you are at a disadvantage right now. I hope they fix that soon. |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
156
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'm not sure what tankers want, us to be chasing them down with mass drivers or flaylocks?
The biggest problem with the swarm is the dead time between firing your rounds. I use the specialist swarm launcher so between the extended lock on time and the time that you can't reload, or even lock on any thing leaves a good 10 seconds that I'm standing there twiddling my thumbs. If the time between shots is intentional they should add a message on screen saying something like "Targeting system recalibrating." |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Speed definitely needs a buff |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
484
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 17:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Royce Kronos wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote: Problem is what damage mods give right now I am not fully sure on how they are working but between damage mods and then the 20% damage increase on swarms your able to hit insane alpha damage. To hit 5000 damage with a SL would require a 150% increase in your damage. My initial post was just to state that this is not possible, not to argue the dynamics of tanking. Proto Swarm Launcher: 330 x 6 = 1980
Direct hit to the bottom rear of the tank: 200% of 1980 = 3960
Explosive damage against Armour: +20% of 3960 = 792 + 3960 = 4752
Then add Damage mods bonuse.
Note: All 6 missiles would have to hit that small sweet spot on the back end of the tank for this to happen. It is like getting a head shot. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 17:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Royce Kronos wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote: Problem is what damage mods give right now I am not fully sure on how they are working but between damage mods and then the 20% damage increase on swarms your able to hit insane alpha damage. To hit 5000 damage with a SL would require a 150% increase in your damage. My initial post was just to state that this is not possible, not to argue the dynamics of tanking. Proto Swarm Launcher: 330 x 6 = 1980 Direct hit to the bottom rear of the tank: 200% of 1980 = 3960 Explosive damage against Armour: +20% of 3960 = 792 + 3960 = 4752 Then add Damage mods bonuse. Note: All 6 missiles would have to hit that small sweet spot on the back end of the tank for this to happen. It is like getting a head shot. Also note that this does not factor in the tanksGÇÖs resistance mods. Ahhh, I didn't realize that there was a crit spot on tanks. Still backpedaling for the win. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Militaires Sans Jeux
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 17:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:I think the missile speed itself is alright and the lock on time is pretty much where it needs to be The real problem is the huge gap between firing and being able to start the lock on process again or even reload or switch weapons, if that was removed it would be a boon to the weapon without making it overly strong
Coming from a tanker, this seems about right.
The tracking is already too good as it stands, if you fire it when we aren't in cover, it will track to where we were when it locked on, and then around the obstacle to where we are.
Then again that same tracking also makes it awful. It will track to where you were during lock on, and if that LAV is headed for you it will end up going over it's head and then swinging back around to try and catch back up. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
Royce Kronos wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Royce Kronos wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote: Problem is what damage mods give right now I am not fully sure on how they are working but between damage mods and then the 20% damage increase on swarms your able to hit insane alpha damage. To hit 5000 damage with a SL would require a 150% increase in your damage. My initial post was just to state that this is not possible, not to argue the dynamics of tanking. Proto Swarm Launcher: 330 x 6 = 1980 Direct hit to the bottom rear of the tank: 200% of 1980 = 3960 Explosive damage against Armour: +20% of 3960 = 792 + 3960 = 4752 Then add Damage mods bonuse. Note: All 6 missiles would have to hit that small sweet spot on the back end of the tank for this to happen. It is like getting a head shot. Also note that this does not factor in the tanksGÇÖs resistance mods. Ahhh, I didn't realize that there was a crit spot on tanks. Still backpedaling for the win. Not many people know about the sweat spot. It was found by a guy pointing his weapon at various parts of a friendly tank and looking at the efficacy % that is displayed. The highest if I remember correctly was 200% efficacy when pointing at the lower back of the tank. On the sides there is an increased efficiency near the bottom as well, but less than 200%. Of course we canGÇÖt aim a Swarm Launcher at a specific part of the tank, but judging from some of the complaints in this thread, it sounds like the missiles try for the sweat spot.
Caeli SineDeo does have a valid point. He may overstate it a bit, but he is a tank driver posting in an AV thread, so that is understandable. The problem is not with the Swarm Launcher however. This is simply another case of a weapon being balanced around stuff that is not yet in the game. |
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Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
176
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:With either Uprising 1.0 or 1.1 (think it was 1.0), the speed of missiles from tanks and installations was increased significantly, and now they make a very satisfying noise as they go towards you. +1 for this, I think everyone is happy.
But now the question turns to swarm launchers:
-They require a lock-on time, unlike any of the other batteries or the other hand-held AV weapons. -Tradeoff - They track your target
However, the time-to-target is significantly slower than then other handheld AV weapons, they cannot be dumb-fired or used against personnel, and due to the mobility of LAVs, some tanks and drop ships, it is easy to maneuver behind cover and avoid incoming missiles that have already been fired.
Rather than increasing damage or reducing lock time, or making the swarms into some kind of dumb-fire AV/anti-personnel weapon, here's my suggestion"
Should swarms have their missile speed increased?
Is the speed fine the way it is?
Should they be slowed even more?
What do you guys think?
1 thing to take into consideration is faster it moved more it pushes your when it explodes, from a pilot`s view my ship can take that from the swarms since the swarms seem to do it less then any gun (btw the flaylock pushes be more then FGs, MDs etc... YES the flaylock) the swarms are better off against light and medium vehicles innless its an armor vehicle such as Gallante or Ammar and from being in a Galalnte tank squad as a Python with a triage module the swarmers hold up pretty well, if you spec into them they are the butter knife and the galalnte tanks are the butter. As for the G2A talk, I can outrun them easily in a light frame DS but would need mods to do the same in normal and Logi DSes so speed wise is close to balanced but I would prefer more time to think the ladder out. as for damage its where it should be. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
485
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:I'm not sure what tankers want, us to be chasing them down with mass drivers or flaylocks?
The biggest problem with the swarm is the dead time between firing your rounds. I use the specialist swarm launcher so between the extended lock on time and the time that you can't reload, or even lock on any thing leaves a good 10 seconds that I'm standing there twiddling my thumbs. If the time between shots is intentional they should add a message on screen saying something like "Targeting system recalibrating."
Add that to the extreme lag in throwing grenades and that makes up close swarm launching a death wish for close range. You should not be standing there twiddling your thumbs between shots. For that matter, you should not be standing still while locking either, unless your movement is restricted by your surroundings.
Not that I donGÇÖt occasionally get lazy and stand still while using my Swarm Launcher, but if I get sniped while standing still, I blame myself, not my Swarm Launcher.
I do like the idea of the GÇ£Targeting systems recalibratingGÇ¥ message. Although a red blinking light on the Swarm Launcher itself that turns green when it is ready might be better. |
Vallud Eadesso
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
216
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nightbird Aeon wrote:With either Uprising 1.0 or 1.1 (think it was 1.0), the speed of missiles from tanks and installations was increased significantly, and now they make a very satisfying noise as they go towards you. +1 for this, I think everyone is happy.
But now the question turns to swarm launchers:
-They require a lock-on time, unlike any of the other batteries or the other hand-held AV weapons. -Tradeoff - They track your target
However, the time-to-target is significantly slower than then other handheld AV weapons, they cannot be dumb-fired or used against personnel, and due to the mobility of LAVs, some tanks and drop ships, it is easy to maneuver behind cover and avoid incoming missiles that have already been fired.
Rather than increasing damage or reducing lock time, or making the swarms into some kind of dumb-fire AV/anti-personnel weapon, here's my suggestion"
Should swarms have their missile speed increased?
Is the speed fine the way it is?
Should they be slowed even more?
What do you guys think?
Man you should have saw how slow these things were back in the alpha (Back before they needed a lock too!) I'd personally like them to be MUCH faster than they are currently. More in line with real life speeds, but eh, i'm a sucker for realism) |
Jammer Jalapeno
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:I think the missile speed itself is alright and the lock on time is pretty much where it needs to be The real problem is the huge gap between firing and being able to start the lock on process again or even reload or switch weapons, if that was removed it would be a boon to the weapon without making it overly strong
Have you tried the assault version? It's more efficient.
I think the SL is just fine. A skilled driver should be able to avoid your swarms, just like we do when they fire their turrets. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1921
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
RoundEy3 wrote:Cosgar wrote:RoundEy3 wrote:This is going to boil into another nerf demand, I'll betcha a million trillion dollars it will. Think about it this way: Do you want cooler vehicles like MAVs, Fighter Jets, and MTACS to be designed on the current lopsided vehicle balance we have now where a LLAV has more survivability than a tank? I think I know where you're coming from, but that is more issues than just the swarm launcher. I was just anticipating the reaction that as soon as a weapon is performing adequately the people being killed by it say it's OP and needs nerf'd to hell. I'd like to think our community as a whole are behind crying nerf outside of a few cryhards. This seems to be more about weapon balance to the point that pilots get an equal amount of bang for their buck and AVers have more fun burning that money they bring on the field. Face it, when was the last time we destroyed a tank and felt like it was an accomplishment instead of a chore? |
Jammer Jalapeno
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:RoundEy3 wrote:Cosgar wrote:RoundEy3 wrote:This is going to boil into another nerf demand, I'll betcha a million trillion dollars it will. Think about it this way: Do you want cooler vehicles like MAVs, Fighter Jets, and MTACS to be designed on the current lopsided vehicle balance we have now where a LLAV has more survivability than a tank? I think I know where you're coming from, but that is more issues than just the swarm launcher. I was just anticipating the reaction that as soon as a weapon is performing adequately the people being killed by it say it's OP and needs nerf'd to hell. I'd like to think our community as a whole are beyond crying nerf outside of a few cryhards. This seems to be more about weapon balance to the point that pilots get an equal amount of bang for their buck and AVers have more fun burning that money they bring on the field. Face it, when was the last time we destroyed a tank and felt like it was an accomplishment instead of a chore?
Everyday |
Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
589
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
First off so all you guys understand Proto tanks are already in the game. Enforcers/Mauraders. Fully pimping out a Enforcer takes 16m Skill points. Going into both types of tanks is going to cost 20m skill points. If they actually add a teir of tank above this tankers are going to be putting in 30m SP to build a proper tank.
But as I said look in game when you aim it says PRO. Which means proto tank. CCP would not label it that if they expected to have higher teir tanks. They will have a few tech 2 tanks aka the black ops. But they are specialty tanks. Usually not ment for battling but filling specialty rolls.
So proto tanks are in. THey are ****.
Now do you see me attacking for a nerf no. I am just pointing out the facts that swarms are already powerful and their needs to be balancing. I am sorry but currently the only good vehicles in the game are LAVs. why the hell are LAVs the best vehicle in the game. Well CCP is full of a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing.. They do not work to cross check their **** and see how it effects things properly. And they are failing at dust currently. For ever 2 foward on one thing they take 10 steps back. They listen to their numbers way to much and then from there they listen to the community who most members of the community do not understand mechanics they know something is wrong and yell for change but they do not truely understand what is wrong so they all band on a common thought that usually does not help fix things.
First off AV gets **** for their work. usually in most games doing AV is extremely benificial. Here it is worthless. You get paid nothing and make crap for SP. They need to rework the system. So AVing actually feels like a roll. This means tank v tank battles become more common because their is chances for tankers to make out on isk.
After you get a stable system here and buff HAVs and rework them a little so their is more balance between them. From there if certain AV needs small buffs you can do that. Small buff not nerf havs buff AV at the same time like they have done in the past.
Now HAVS are the most skill intensive part of the game in my mind. If you do it properly you change the tide of the game. It is also the most SP expensive role in the game to do properly. If you do not spend 10m SP about into HAVs ur just dead. All other havs are going to beat you. And AV has no trouble because you do not have the moduals needed to survive.
HAVs use to be a tactical vehicle on the map. People had to rethink what they are doing to take one out. Get 2 guys and strategic location with AV. This equaled diversity and tatics.
Now all it is a forger in a LAV drives up to you jumps out AV nades forges. Or just forges if it is a shield tank. Same with swarms except they come running up to you and bunny hope around ur tank and kill you in 5-10 seconds.
SO all tank drivers are suppose to do now is run around in circles like idiots at full speed to avoid AV because that is the tactical way to do it. Because really if they sit still AV will eat them up before infantry has a chance to turn on AV and kill them.
I am sorry when it takes one AV guy to quickly deal with tanks with no real strategy besides getting up next to it and killing it faster then it can turn on them is broken. Only way someone should expect to deal with a tank if they have 2-3 AV guys with proto AV. Yes then if it takes them 5-10 seconds ya they played smart and got 2-3 AF guys throwing out Alpha damage. they worked together. But soloing something that is suppose to change the battle field. That cost a player all of his SP to build correctly so they are forced to run a tank to do well or run in militant gear and get stomped by the other proto players. I do not know a tanker that can make out on ISK effectively in this game by running his tank and using it to work with his team.
Redline sniping is the only way to keep a tank alive all game against proto AV if you move past the redline you have a 10% chance of keeping the tank alive. |
Jammer Jalapeno
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
BooHoo
Don't forget tanks are big bullies too. They come rolling in destroying everything in sight.
More people are just taking a stand now that's all and it's quite profitable.
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Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 18:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Not many people know about the sweat spot. It was found by a guy pointing his weapon at various parts of a friendly tank and looking at the efficacy % that is displayed. The highest if I remember correctly was 200% efficacy when pointing at the lower back of the tank. On the sides there is an increased efficiency near the bottom as well, but less than 200%. Of course we canGÇÖt aim a Swarm Launcher at a specific part of the tank, but judging from some of the complaints in this thread, it sounds like the missiles try for the sweat spot.
Caeli SineDeo does have a valid point. He may overstate it a bit, but he is a tank driver posting in an AV thread, so that is understandable. The problem is not with the Swarm Launcher however. This is simply another case of a weapon being balanced around stuff that is not yet in the game. I would think that getting consistent critical hits on a tank would be rare. I usually shoot up to avoid terrain and structures. If there isn't any speed difference driving backwards, then it seems like an smart tanking strategy.
I wonder if Proto HAV's will have 20k+ EHP. If SL's can be putting out 12k+ per clip it makes you wonder. Also, I don't know if allowing infantry with proto AV nades to get close to you is a lack of skill, a balance issue, or skill on the opponents end. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
63
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Posted - 2013.06.19 00:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:First off so all you guys understand Proto tanks are already in the game. Enforcers/Mauraders. Fully pimping out a Enforcer takes 16m Skill points. Going into both types of tanks is going to cost 20m skill points. If they actually add a teir of tank above this tankers are going to be putting in 30m SP to build a proper tank.
But as I said look in game when you aim it says PRO. Which means proto tank. CCP would not label it that if they expected to have higher teir tanks. They will have a few tech 2 tanks aka the black ops. But they are specialty tanks. Usually not ment for battling but filling specialty rolls.
So proto tanks are in. THey are ****.
Now do you see me attacking for a nerf no. I am just pointing out the facts that swarms are already powerful and their needs to be balancing. I am sorry but currently the only good vehicles in the game are LAVs. why the hell are LAVs the best vehicle in the game. Well CCP is full of a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing.. They do not work to cross check their **** and see how it effects things properly. And they are failing at dust currently. For ever 2 foward on one thing they take 10 steps back. They listen to their numbers way to much and then from there they listen to the community who most members of the community do not understand mechanics they know something is wrong and yell for change but they do not truely understand what is wrong so they all band on a common thought that usually does not help fix things.
First off AV gets **** for their work. usually in most games doing AV is extremely benificial. Here it is worthless. You get paid nothing and make crap for SP. They need to rework the system. So AVing actually feels like a roll. This means tank v tank battles become more common because their is chances for tankers to make out on isk.
After you get a stable system here and buff HAVs and rework them a little so their is more balance between them. From there if certain AV needs small buffs you can do that. Small buff not nerf havs buff AV at the same time like they have done in the past.
Now HAVS are the most skill intensive part of the game in my mind. If you do it properly you change the tide of the game. It is also the most SP expensive role in the game to do properly. If you do not spend 10m SP about into HAVs ur just dead. All other havs are going to beat you. And AV has no trouble because you do not have the moduals needed to survive.
HAVs use to be a tactical vehicle on the map. People had to rethink what they are doing to take one out. Get 2 guys and strategic location with AV. This equaled diversity and tatics.
Now all it is a forger in a LAV drives up to you jumps out AV nades forges. Or just forges if it is a shield tank. Same with swarms except they come running up to you and bunny hope around ur tank and kill you in 5-10 seconds.
SO all tank drivers are suppose to do now is run around in circles like idiots at full speed to avoid AV because that is the tactical way to do it. Because really if they sit still AV will eat them up before infantry has a chance to turn on AV and kill them.
I am sorry when it takes one AV guy to quickly deal with tanks with no real strategy besides getting up next to it and killing it faster then it can turn on them is broken. Only way someone should expect to deal with a tank if they have 2-3 AV guys with proto AV. Yes then if it takes them 5-10 seconds ya they played smart and got 2-3 AF guys throwing out Alpha damage. they worked together. But soloing something that is suppose to change the battle field. That cost a player all of his SP to build correctly so they are forced to run a tank to do well or run in militant gear and get stomped by the other proto players. I do not know a tanker that can make out on ISK effectively in this game by running his tank and using it to work with his team.
Redline sniping is the only way to keep a tank alive all game against proto AV if you move past the redline you have a 10% chance of keeping the tank alive.
Im sorry i read this post and to me it sounded like a buff tank post. I just want to tell ulyou that i am extremely against the tank being buffed in any way because i was here during the Overpowered tanks era about a year ago in closed beta. Where CCP nerfed all AV by around 20% and buffed all vehicles. I remember it being strictly hell for all players. I remember how proto swarms with damage mods could only flicker tanks sheilds, matlia tanks sheild. Back them it took over 5 proto av sustaining fire over a couple minutes to scare a tank away. After this sad mark on AV history many vowed to never let a tank live long enough to do it again.
Now you say that like its so easy to use a swarm that anybody can pick up a swarm and get tank kills effortlessly. I gurentee you thats not the case as many people in this thread can point out. If your problem isnt about swarms as much as AV nades which do in fact need a slight nerf. I use swarms and i still have a hard enough time killing armor tanks,but the thing is that normally AV nades do a lot of damage and they home in on vehicles.
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