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Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
292
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Also why can't they just make the ROF block less intense? Such as the lowering it to emulate the amount of times the average person can pull it? Instead of making it slightly faster then a breach. "The semi-automatic rate is the assault rifle/semi-auto only version on rapid fire. It is the maximum rate that a weapon can fire with any degree of accuracy in semi-auto mode, usually 45-60 rpm." taken from link in previous post. This assumes that realworld combat limitations apply. Paintball weapons are often equipped with triggers that allow for alternating action and much higher rates of fire than 45-60rpm. Paintball guns also do not kill people. Seriously count how many times you can pull a trigger in one minute. I guarantee it is a bunch less than 400 lol Animated meshes don't kill people either.
I'm not attacking your central point but merely raising awareness of the fact that real world numbers aren't necessarily the best comparison when talking about reasonable fire rates. It's a game after all and people probably behave and perform differently in games than in a serious combat environment. |
Zeravla Hsoj
The Merc Net
3
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Regardless of how many times anyone can pull the trigger in a minute. the ROF block is to high and the clip is too low. If it was drastic enough to force me to make a thread about it, obviously this has drastically effected the practicality of this weapon. I don't use modded controller and want a well rounded game. I've been putting up with the mass driver for 4 months, why couldn't everyone put up with the TAR. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
143
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:I'm not attacking your central point but merely raising awareness of the fact that real world numbers aren't necessarily the best comparison when talking about reasonable fire rates. It's a game after all and people probably behave and perform differently in games than in a serious combat environment.
You're right so how many times per minute can the average person blindly depress the "R1" button. I still have my money on it being far less than 400 times per minute. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
143
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Regardless of how many times anyone can pull the trigger in a minute. the ROF block is to high and the clip is too low. If it was drastic enough to force me to make a thread about it, obviously this has drastically effected the practicality of this weapon. I don't use modded controller and want a well rounded game. I've been putting up with the mass driver for 4 months, why couldn't everyone put up with the TAR.
It has everything to do with how many times one can pull a trigger per minute.
Semi auto RoF = how fast can you pull the trigger!
I bet it is way WAY less than 400 times.
G'head try it and see!
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Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
292
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Regardless of how many times anyone can pull the trigger in a minute. the ROF block is to high and the clip is too low. If it was drastic enough to force me to make a thread about it, obviously this has drastically effected the practicality of this weapon. I don't use modded controller and want a well rounded game. I've been putting up with the mass driver for 4 months, why couldn't everyone put up with the TAR. You saying that the ROF block is too high (what does this even mean?) and the clip is too small is a useless assertion until backed up with a modicum of reasoning. Several people have made a thread about it but i've seen very little in terms of an actual argument to work with.
If you want changes to be made provide reasons why they should be made and, no, you beeing upset about it is not a good reason
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EVEry DUSTOID
United Planetary Soldiers
93
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Nobody seems to want to look at facts and whiners want to keep whining while trolls collect their tears. So coming from a long time lover of semi auto assault rifles even before dust, ihave to say. Yes the TAR was over powered but it was still handled the wrong way. Single fire ARs are meant to have high accuracy high range and regardless of modded controllers should still fire as fast as you pull the trigger. That's how they've always worked and yes people complain but they get over it. The whining could've easily been suppressed by lowering the damage and making a much wider hip fire dispersion. That would limit it to med/ long ranges while retaining its effectiveness. Instead they've made the prototype and advanced level TARs identical in every way except a slight increase in damage while keeping the proto almost 4x the price of the advanced. The ROF barely effects a modded controllers advantage while crippling legit players, and even if every bullet hits, the clip size limits you to a couple kills per clip. This is not a "fix" and only humors the casuals screaming "OP" everytime they get killed. CCP has never catered to these people before why should they start now? In most FPS games the single shot weapons have always been low ROF, but very strong bullet damage. So how is the TAC any different now from other single shots in other FPS games? And unless you are using two fingers or just are really really fast most people can't single shot at 400 rpm. And why are you complaining about the price? You were willing to pay 4x the price for the same damage difference and 6 extra bullets so whats the problem now, the Gek to Duvolle have been like that since beta, pay a ton more for an extra 2 points in damage.
In other FPS games single shot weapons fire as fast as you can tap |
Aquinarius Zoltanus
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
116
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Stop complaining about the clip size. For the amount of damage it could do, the previous clip size was ridiculous. Oh, you can only kill 2-3 people per clip with the clip size? Boo-frickity-hoo. That just puts it in line with how many people other weapons can kill in one clip. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
549
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
EVEry DUSTOID wrote:In other FPS games single shot weapons fire as fast as you can tap
And in other FPS games, single shot weapons limit how fast you can fire. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
292
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:I'm not attacking your central point but merely raising awareness of the fact that real world numbers aren't necessarily the best comparison when talking about reasonable fire rates. It's a game after all and people probably behave and perform differently in games than in a serious combat environment. You're right so how many times per minute can the average person blindly depress the "R1" button. I still have my money on it being far less than 400 times per minute. The sustained rate is likely way below 200 for the strain alone, that's exactly why i said that i was not intending to criticise your central point, but the example you chose to argue for it.
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Zeravla Hsoj
The Merc Net
3
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
Understand. Im saying if the ROF block doesn't hold back your ability to pull the trigger you have a very slow finger. I don't care how many times you me or anyone can pull it I'm just saying that the block holds me back and the clip size is rediculous. Use the tactical and tell me that it's not shooting slower then you can pull the trigger. |
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
565
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reminds me of the FAL being banned from competition by the MLG. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
143
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:The sustained rate is likely way below 200 for the strain alone, that's exactly why i said that i was not intending to criticise your central point, but the example you chose to argue for it.
Understood, and thank you for seeing my point. I do believe this game has some real world combat limitations when it comes to weaponry. The problem is these limitations are not consistent through all aspects of all weapons in the game, and this to me is one of the major weapon balancing flaws of the game. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
91
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Posted - 2013.06.05 20:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Nobody seems to want to look at facts and whiners want to keep whining while trolls collect their tears. So coming from a long time lover of semi auto assault rifles even before dust, ihave to say. Yes the TAR was over powered but it was still handled the wrong way. Single fire ARs are meant to have high accuracy high range and regardless of modded controllers should still fire as fast as you pull the trigger. That's how they've always worked and yes people complain but they get over it. The whining could've easily been suppressed by lowering the damage and making a much wider hip fire dispersion. That would limit it to med/ long ranges while retaining its effectiveness. Instead they've made the prototype and advanced level TARs identical in every way except a slight increase in damage while keeping the proto almost 4x the price of the advanced. The ROF barely effects a modded controllers advantage while crippling legit players, and even if every bullet hits, the clip size limits you to a couple kills per clip. This is not a "fix" and only humors the casuals screaming "OP" everytime they get killed. CCP has never catered to these people before why should they start now?
Lol CCP never catered to QQing players?
What about all the AR-boys ranting about the LR in chromosome? Now look what you all have done to it BY ranting about it. You guys can be happy your weapon is still usable! |
Zeravla Hsoj
The Merc Net
5
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Posted - 2013.06.05 21:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:
Lol CCP never catered to QQing players?
What about all the AR-boys ranting about the LR in chromosome? Now look what you all have done to it BY ranting about it. You guys can be happy your weapon is still usable!
I'm talking about eve when I say that |
KrazyEyeKilla
Greek Death Squad
10
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Posted - 2013.06.05 21:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Nobody seems to want to look at facts and whiners want to keep whining while trolls collect their tears. So coming from a long time lover of semi auto assault rifles even before dust, ihave to say. Yes the TAR was over powered but it was still handled the wrong way. Single fire ARs are meant to have high accuracy high range and regardless of modded controllers should still fire as fast as you pull the trigger. That's how they've always worked and yes people complain but they get over it. The whining could've easily been suppressed by lowering the damage and making a much wider hip fire dispersion. That would limit it to med/ long ranges while retaining its effectiveness. Instead they've made the prototype and advanced level TARs identical in every way except a slight increase in damage while keeping the proto almost 4x the price of the advanced. The ROF barely effects a modded controllers advantage while crippling legit players, and even if every bullet hits, the clip size limits you to a couple kills per clip. This is not a "fix" and only humors the casuals screaming "OP" everytime they get killed. CCP has never catered to these people before why should they start now? Lol CCP never catered to QQing players? What about all the AR-boys ranting about the LR in chromosome? Now look what you all have done to it BY ranting about it. You guys can be happy your weapon is still usable!
This is a good point. The Viziam was nerfed into the ground. The Duv Tac is still pretty effective.
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Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
280
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Posted - 2013.06.05 21:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
400 ROF is 6.6 bullets a second. That's within human capability.
Also, its supposed to be a high alpha low DPS weapon, and its kinda sorta there. The DPS with 400 ROF is 500, however you almost never fire it that fast because unless the target is standing still, the recoil messes you up. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
302
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Posted - 2013.06.05 21:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
KrazyEyeKilla wrote:Your Absolut End wrote:Zeravla Hsoj wrote:Nobody seems to want to look at facts and whiners want to keep whining while trolls collect their tears. So coming from a long time lover of semi auto assault rifles even before dust, ihave to say. Yes the TAR was over powered but it was still handled the wrong way. Single fire ARs are meant to have high accuracy high range and regardless of modded controllers should still fire as fast as you pull the trigger. That's how they've always worked and yes people complain but they get over it. The whining could've easily been suppressed by lowering the damage and making a much wider hip fire dispersion. That would limit it to med/ long ranges while retaining its effectiveness. Instead they've made the prototype and advanced level TARs identical in every way except a slight increase in damage while keeping the proto almost 4x the price of the advanced. The ROF barely effects a modded controllers advantage while crippling legit players, and even if every bullet hits, the clip size limits you to a couple kills per clip. This is not a "fix" and only humors the casuals screaming "OP" everytime they get killed. CCP has never catered to these people before why should they start now? Lol CCP never catered to QQing players? What about all the AR-boys ranting about the LR in chromosome? Now look what you all have done to it BY ranting about it. You guys can be happy your weapon is still usable! This is a good point. The Viziam was nerfed into the ground. The Duv Tac is still pretty effective. The problem with the Viziam was its 5dmg more than was intended in the first place. CCP has a history of releasing new content rather UP than the other way around. It can be pretty much agreed upon that the LR is distinctively absent from the battlefield and CCPs own data (the purchases alone) should have given them a clue even without looking at the forums.
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS
25
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Posted - 2013.06.06 01:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:There's also the various weapon statements from CCP: Quote:We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:
Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range Quote:
They won't be removed, no, but they will be tweaked slightly. The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault, (Gallente) Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on.
Ergo, the blaster is meant to be short range high damage. Caldari will have the longest range, Amarr is supposed to be the "tactical" model. That means the current TAR is meant to be worse than those on both counts, or rather... it probably shouldn't or won't be outdoing the other weapon types on ground that's their turf. The TAR is already a "freak"-weapon that out-ranges lasers despite pulse lasers having a 4 to 1 range advantage on blasters in EVE lore. Pick up ARs for high damage at short range.
The problem is right now we dont have all of the weapons. Hence why there is random variations.
All I know is Il spec into whatever rifle gives me good range. I care not about its cqc ability, as long as I can mark my target and dispatch them at range :)
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postmanclark2
Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire
6
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Posted - 2013.06.06 02:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
This is another example of CCP, messing things up. I understand that the TAC needed a nerf, either a slight range decrease and, or higher dispersal of hip fire; plus it needed a limitation to the ROF, because of modded controllers.
I have been using the GLU - 5 for the last 4 weeks and found it to be a blast, it suited my playstyle, of hanging back and being a coward and the ACOG sight was a lot better then other of the other weapons. I realise that it was a lot easier to kill people, so some people might accuse me of easy mode.
However, I logged on today and the rifle is broken. You can pull the trigger a lot faster, than it's current limitation and that just kittens everything up. I estimate I can pull the trigger 6 times a second, when I am triggering well. I was at medium range and couldn't work out when I was going to fire - shot, blank, shot, blank - at CQC it just got even worse.
What CCP should of done, to separate out the modded controllers, was to work out what was physically possible, with regards to the trigger finger. Then brought the ROF slightly higher than that, for people with quicker fingers and left it at that. What they have done is given it an arbitrary figure, regardless of testing it to make sure it worked.
The problem is, CCP have a history of not just changing the figures - but also the mechanics of how things work. When I first started playing in Oct 2012, dropships with missiles were going 50 - 0. You couldn't hit them with swarms and missiles were OP. What did they do, nerf the dropship - to where no one used one for several months; break the missiles, so they still don't work. When moving in the vehicle, if you try and fire missiles, they can go anywhere. I once had one that got released 1/4 of an inch from the side of my tv, I mean what the hell. LR in Chromosome was OP, instead of adjusting for damage and leaving it alone, they've turned it into a gun that no one uses.
If CCP really want to get this game up to scratch and do better than a lowly 5.8 in IGN, they need to think long and hard how the AAA FPS games are working. Look at BF3 and COD, see how their mechanics are - in comparison, Dust 514 sucks by a long way. Now the gameplay is fun, which is why I have logged in many hundred of hours - what I don't see, apart from the graphics, is how the game was any better than it was in October 2012 and that was 2 builds ago. |
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