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[Request] Change Dren Pistol/Swarm Launcher to tier 1 CPU/PG fitting cost

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Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 777	Posted - 2013.06.04 17:26:00 - [1] - Quote I purchased the Elite pack when it first released. Since then I have used the Dren Logistic suit, Sentinel, Assault Rifle, Scout, Shotgun, and lunch box (some previously mentioned facts may be incorrect). I actually was really looking forward to the pistol and Sentinel suit. I enjoy the sentinel suit. I currently use Adv suits but I am trying to encourage myself to run cheaper gear more often rather than rely on items. I look forward to the templar sentinel and using it as well. The pistol was also very exciting to me because I never have been much use with the SMG. It is a solid weapon. I enjoy it. I can get kills with it, however the pistol has exciting moments where I have been stared down by an opposing heavy with good gear, and currently higher HP. I keep backing up towards cover, my HMG needing reloading, he knows my chances slim, he rounds corner with the advantage but I have a clear headshot ready for him (from sighting his head while playing chase around a nullcannon) and BAM, his shields just broke, bam bam. Two body shots and he is on the floor. When I received the Dren pistol I tried my best to see what suits could fit it. Sadly with the upgrade to Adv tier suits and extra points from Respec I was able to dedicate the points I needed into electronics and engineering (woe is me I guess?). As a result I was able to very much optimize my prefered suits. Often I now have to choose between upgrading to Assault Pistol or upgrading to adv grenades. Choosing grenades generally first (flux those uplinks people). As a result of my fittings being so tight I can not feasibly use the Dren pistol without reducing my modules. Very often the lack of 3 pg or 9 CPU results in needing to downgrade from complex to enhanced, or enhanced to basic. The fitting difference between basic and adv flux grenades is 9cpu and 1pg. Which means in no scenario with extra space would the flux grenade not be more reasonable (isk cost is certainly higher but it is not a high cost certainly). In the end though I don't feel the above matters terribly much. What I do feel matters is my enjoyment of the item. In the end equipping the weapon would make me happier. Significantly? No. Would it make me happier forever? No. But I don't quite understand why I can't have it. In my mind I must choose either between better items on my suit, or a nicer looking sidearm. I actually use the pistol anyway. The additional cost to me upon finding out the Dren had militia fitting costs was ~24k SP, and ~120k ISK for 200 pistols (currently at 120 left after ~2 weeks, though I sometimes use assault pistols too as I view them as superior). Which is where my confusion comes in. The cost of using the BPO is 9cpu, 3 PG. This same benefit I happily spend hundreds of thousands of SP to gain on all my suits. The cost for gaining that CPU/PG is 24k SP and probably a high estimate of 300k ISK a month. Would many people likely change to pistol purely for fitting reasons? Potentially yes, though people seem equally liekly to like either. In fact for the swarm launcher I'd find this a very good thing, as it's use is very limited currently. Pistol as well but overbalancing is generally not a good idea. idk I just really want to use this pistol, I like not having to worry about buying more, I like having something a little unique, I think the 24k to get the extra round in the mag is worth it regardless, and I guess it bothers me that in order to use this thing I bought I would need to actively work to decide what part of my fitting can be changed to accomodate, and also when (through various upgrades and etc) I can fit it because I have extra room. That time should be spent playing, not refitting my suits to fit a different skin. As a note for others coming in cold on this. The Dren AR/Shotgun features full basic stats. The Dren Pistol features full basic stats (faster reload time) but has the same cpu/pg of a militia item. The same goes for the Dren Swarm Launcher as well. tl;dr; I feel the extra CPU/PG cost of the Dren Pistol detracts from the point of the game and the intention of said item. I do not believe it was meant to be burdensome to use but it currently is as the extra fitting requires special attention.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 777	Posted - 2013.06.04 17:26:00 - [2] - Quote Old thread here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77725&find=unread
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 542	Posted - 2013.06.04 17:31:00 - [3] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Old thread here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77725&find=unread I'd add Templar to the list, it seems odd to sell items with militia fitting reqs. You can already buy a miltia scrambler pistol BPO( I realize there's slight differences, but still...).
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 777	Posted - 2013.06.04 18:37:00 - [4] - Quote I am intentionally leaving that out as in the support mail I received I had mentioned the Templar Pistol and they said they could not comment as the item was not actually released yet. But yes I agree and hope it will be that way.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 543	Posted - 2013.06.04 19:57:00 - [5] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: I am intentionally leaving that out as in the support mail I received I had mentioned the Templar Pistol and they said they could not comment as the item was not actually released yet. But yes I agree and hope it will be that way. Also, I avoided liking your post because you're at 777.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 777	Posted - 2013.06.04 20:01:00 - [6] - Quote they said the same thing like 3 weeks ago when I was at 666. Take that moonracer(?)!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 544	Posted - 2013.06.05 01:21:00 - [7] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: they said the same thing like 3 weeks ago when I was at 666. Take that moonracer(?)! Oh well... no jackpot for you.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 786	Posted - 2013.06.05 12:56:00 - [8] - Quote There is always the next number. My current goal will to spell out 8008. Because I'm that mature. Anyway bumping with the fact that this has to be one of the easier requests to fulfill. Compared to requests for rebalancing, respecing, new suits, new weapons, fix weapons, fix skills, etc etc etc. Heck if there is no fear of a balance issue this is easier to do than the new wallpaper I requested! Should this be reason enough to do it? No and I understand that but how hard does one need to campaign for something like this? Because I'm prepared to g-darn double it.
Nikea Nei Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 11	Posted - 2013.06.05 14:02:00 - [9] - Quote It might require a client update? Though it hasn't been made clear to me what exactly necessitates that sort of thing. I assume skill-passives and that sort of thing require an update like that, and that's why suit skills, etc. haven't been changed. Can you think of any other items that had their CPU/PG adjusted without a client update?
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 786	Posted - 2013.06.05 17:00:00 - [10] - Quote well it could be included in whichever one comes next, I'm not talking a stop the presses thing here

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 548	Posted - 2013.06.05 18:02:00 - [11] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: well it could be included in whichever one comes next, I'm not talking a stop the presses thing here There's a lot of stuff that's coming in the client update this month in theory. For starters, the "June update" was announced by the CEO with the uprising launch. I'd assume an update announced in a press release is more than just "fixes". But we have stuff like the suit changes, range/weapon adjustments, weapon additions?, the memory leak fix, etc. etc. Not sure when in June it's supposed to be - but soon I hope. Getting tired of sitting on my unspent SP. Maybe those placeholder suits and some other stuff will pop in there as well. I think the Elite pack folks (which I am not) probably deserve to have their weapons be standard grade - though I'm concerned about the Templar gear too after seeing the militia fittings on that.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.06.07 12:53:00 - [12] - Quote I would even be happy with a decent counter argument as to why not btw. Just why this shouldn't be.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 674	Posted - 2013.06.07 16:40:00 - [13] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: I would even be happy with a decent counter argument as to why not btw. Just why this shouldn't be. Not sure if this is on the dev radar yet. It seems more like an oversight to me.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 689	Posted - 2013.06.08 14:36:00 - [14] - Quote And how do we put it on the radar? By increasing visibility...
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 236	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:06:00 - [15] - Quote I too have the elite pack, but this isn't really an issue. Train your fitting skills and learn that everything is a trade-off: do you want more offense or more utility? Know that carrying more equipment means less room for weapons, and vice versa. This is not a problem, but the system working as intended.
Freya Tegley Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:14:00 - [16] - Quote I doubt it's "working as intended". None of the other merc packs have sold militia-quality items. The point of spending cash on a pack is that you get things you can't get already from the market - which is already chock full of militia blueprints. I doubt they meant to make a whole bunch of standard quality items... then make the sidearm a militia-fit instead.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 740	Posted - 2013.06.10 04:18:00 - [17] - Quote Freya Tegley wrote: I doubt it's "working as intended". None of the other merc packs have sold militia-quality items. The point of spending cash on a pack is that you get things you can't get already from the market - which is already chock full of militia blueprints. I doubt they meant to make a whole bunch of standard quality items... then make the sidearm a militia-fit instead. Yeah, I doubt it's working as intended either. None of their other merc pack stuff has been militia - probably because militia stuff is already so cheap and available. There's no incentive if you can already get it for aurum straight-up.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 818	Posted - 2013.06.10 12:36:00 - [18] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: I too have the elite pack, but this isn't really an issue. Train your fitting skills and learn that everything is a trade-off: do you want more offense or more utility? Know that carrying more equipment means less room for weapons, and vice versa. This is not a problem, but the system working as intended. I'm curious what you feel is the trade off. The weapon with which the the pistol emulates has a fitting of 11cpu/2pg. The Dren has 20cpu/5pg for the same stats. Regardless of my fitting skills the fact remains that with the extra space provided with a normal pistol could be used to use an upgraded grenade/weapon/module. You mention the tradeoff of offense or utility. In this instance the tradeoff is you gain 675isk for the cost of 9cpu/3pg. The amount of SP I have willingly put into increasing my fitting stats an equivalent amount is so great that even if a 1:1 equivalent relationship were assumed I still would have spent more SP than the ISK spent for several months of pistols. We also have the lack of needed SP spent. However the pistol is so cheap in SP cost that I could earn the dues in several games. Keep in mind this is generally a reserve weapon as well, and anyone wishing to take advantage of it as a primary weapon would be using higher tier weapons or simply would happily pay the cost for a standard pistol, both in skill and isk. In the end the primary mechanics of the weapon (because of fitting costs) become such that I simply spend time seeing what suits could fit it after any skills are purchased which grant me more space in my fittings, which is tedious and from a design perspective, not fun. Freya Tegley wrote: I doubt it's "working as intended". None of the other merc packs have sold militia-quality items. The point of spending cash on a pack is that you get things you can't get already from the market - which is already chock full of militia blueprints. I doubt they meant to make a whole bunch of standard quality items... then make the sidearm a militia-fit instead. As stated, support has replied that it is indeed working as intended, you are welcome to message them yourself
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 746	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:25:00 - [19] - Quote I recall from my Raven/Sever support experience that they initially gave me a line about how event items wouldn't be reimbursed (despite it now being one), and quoted some things back to me. At some point, after three messages or so, they acknowledged a mistake an refunded me. It may be that if there is no "note" or whatever on it, that the GMs are told it's "as intended". That is, anything not on a "known issues" list internally gets that reply. It could still be dev-overlooked though.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 822	Posted - 2013.06.10 18:40:00 - [20] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I recall from my Raven/Sever support experience that they initially gave me a line about how event items wouldn't be reimbursed (despite it now being one), and quoted some things back to me. At some point, after three messages or so, they acknowledged a mistake an refunded me. It may be that if there is no "note" or whatever on it, that the GMs are told it's "as intended". That is, anything not on a "known issues" list internally gets that reply. It could still be dev-overlooked though. Fair point and certainly possible. I suggest we talk louder and LOUDER until someone says something.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 759	Posted - 2013.06.12 16:35:00 - [21] - Quote MUCH LOUDER
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 827	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:27:00 - [22] - Quote Maybe the problem is it's too rational. Maybe we need to ask for half the CPU/PG of normal items.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 762	Posted - 2013.06.12 19:56:00 - [23] - Quote Well, I have to admit I laugh a bit whenever I see that thread asking for 30% damage reduction on a heavy. That's gone unanswered for 10 pages though. I'd like to think simple messages get the point across to the devs... they just attract less WHARGARBLLL from common folk.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 827	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:19:00 - [24] - Quote hrm fair point. I figured my argument for what is fun would do the trick. I mean I usually go through my fits and see what can be adjusted after gaining new CPU/PG etc. Seeing what can fit a Dren as opposed to regular is just extra time where I have to check each fit. I'm about to go into either assault or logi gallante for a specialized build. Every time that build changes, whether through new equipment being available, new suits, better nades, new variations, etc etc. I have to spend an extra amount of time seeing if I can use something better if I went to standard Pistol. Now I do this anyway for the suits. If I downgraded this mod could I get another tier of this other one? Hrmm I might be close to using enhanced instead if I just used a standard grenade. I just got better fitting, I should see if I can use a sidearm again with my ideal build. However there is a large difference for me when I try and fit the dren. Mostly because the practice itself is a focus on optimization. Even if you don't obsess over that stuff, if you're willing to see what can fit then it means your willing to make an effort to be optimal. I'm sure many people more find fitting changes as they stumble upon them or leave extra CPU/PG as is not really caring. Valid things to do. However going back to those willing to optimize, and fitting the Dren in where they can, this does not coincide with the effort. A contrast is my medium fit where I use a standard SR. Due to PG use it is more difficult to fit. An exile would serve me fine really but the SR has a slight edge in my mind for my purposes and playstyle. That being said not all my fits can handle the SR do to fitting requirements. My uplinks fits for example will not fit an SR. However as I've increased my fitting skills I've gone back and seen what can and cannot fit. New things opened up. I fit an SR and swapped out modules that I was also happy with in order to keep it tight but workable. This allows me to use a longer range single shot, low ammo consumption weapon which I need without leveling AR for the tac (post nerf even). It also serves as a good weapon to keep heads down when holding ground. I make sacrifices for the privileges. Now instead I have the Dren, in which I also did do this. But it was not satisfying for me to do. It does not save me the same SP as the exile/SR bargain. It does not save me significant ISK, it does not give me a significant option in playstyle. However both these acts require the same amount of time which I hold precious and don't often get enough of for my taste. To me this distracts from fun activities. Now granted sometimes things that "can" be fun, aren't done. Often for many reasons. Sure being a super god would be fun, but destroys balance and the fun doesn't last long. Infinite ammo would be convenient, managing it is a hassle, but again this wouldn't help things. 30% damage reduction to heavy might make the heavies feel good but destroy balance and fun for others. Making the SR identical to the AR in terms of versatility might sound great but it would cause an imbalance of SR use because SR is more interesting but just as effective. I can't figure out what the barrier is preventing the change. I don't think anyone would complain P2W if it was altered. More pistol users might appear but I don't think a significant number as already argued. Granted now some people DO make sacrifices for style. Warbarg Bling forces a suit you won't use to the top fitting. This means it is slightly slower for you to change fittings at times. I've lived on that time when an enemy was on my tail I promise you. But I think the cost is lower, and the benefit for aesthetics much higher in that instance.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 768	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:19:00 - [25] - Quote You can already pay to get std-level equipment. You can already pay to get a scrambler BPO (militia). As for fitting in particular, I doubt balance issues had any larger role in it - the syndicate/toxin smgs were very easy to fit. I'm still pretty sure it has to be a database oversight or that sort of thing. Militia fitting for $100? Std fitting for the cheaper tiers? Seems off.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 827	Posted - 2013.06.13 12:25:00 - [26] - Quote Eh I don't like bringing $$$ into it. The concept that because I paid 100$ for the pack (aside from the fact that other items were included) should not differ if I paid down near the militia BPO cost. While certainly I don't think two things should be priced the same but one should be better, the amount higher in price shouldn't dictate how much better. If it is an oversight why no response at all? Why no response for how long in tech support forum, why no response here? Certainly someone with some actual connection should have read this topic by now. I've posted here, tech support, messaged tech support, and emailed Spero. Messaging tech support directly did get a response but nothing else and we do not know how the response was generated.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 773	Posted - 2013.06.13 22:01:00 - [27] - Quote I bring money into it specifically because every other "pack"-style purchase has featured equipment of standard grade. Aurum BPO options are mostly militia in contrast. So, it's sort of like they put a fair portion of the "std" options behind a merc-pack styled pay-wall (though I guess the Starter pack with Exile was slightly different). Whereas militia BPOs are something of an a la carte option. In that sense it's not necessarily an issue of "paying more" I guess. More-so, it's that the "std" gear is in bundles mostly. I suppose they've moved away from that slightly, since the two old BPO SMGs are on market and there's still those three MAG BPOs (though they require skills, unlike merc pack items).
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 396	Posted - 2013.06.14 08:51:00 - [28] - Quote Thanks for the heads-up email, Rynx. o7 This is a reasonable request - though you won't have much success with support or through GM's. The designers chose these stats for some reason, so there's nothing the GM's can do because its not a glitch or customer service issue. What I CAN do for you is ask CCP Wolfman about the decision to use these fitting requirements next time I speak to him, though there is no set schedule for when he hops on Skype. If I hear anything more about this I'll be sure to let you know here ASAP.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 828	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:19:00 - [29] - Quote And now we play the waiting game... which is much harder than the complaining game.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 787	Posted - 2013.06.15 17:30:00 - [30] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: And now we play the waiting game... which is much harder than the complaining game. Yup. I guess either way we were waiting for Dev's to "notice" things. You can only flog these issues for so long.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 819	Posted - 2013.06.17 06:52:00 - [31] - Quote Perhaps the designers will take a look-see this week in the run up to 1.2.
Nikea Nei Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 25	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:17:00 - [32] - Quote It's because pistols are OP, clearly.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 833	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:23:00 - [33] - Quote In the old build proficient pistol users were actually pretty deadly. They'd use 2 pistols with mods, and focus on headshotting. Without sharpshooter though I think that died out a lot.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 828	Posted - 2013.06.17 21:12:00 - [34] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: In the old build proficient pistol users were actually pretty deadly. They'd use 2 pistols with mods, and focus on headshotting. Without sharpshooter though I think that died out a lot. I wonder how the range adjustments might impact pistols? The... flaylock has the best optimal of pistols right now, since it can hit about 60m out. The SMG and Scrambler are comparatively much shorter, no? I seldom find myself pulling a scrambler out unless I'm blasting someone hacking at point-blank range.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 843	Posted - 2013.06.18 08:23:00 - [35] - Quote I'd prefer a little bit more range on the pistol personally. I think with just iron sights as-is, it wouldn't be too imbalanced.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 840	Posted - 2013.06.18 12:17:00 - [36] - Quote I think I'd have to reserve judgement on that until I had tried higher tier pistols. In the same way my HMG hits a nice range point with the MH-82 where the standard HMG feels just slightly short. Could be that the higher tier pistols are better. For the flaylock if you can hit at that range I'm impressed though it makes for a strong suit if you have height advantage and can hit the ground.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 860	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:49:00 - [37] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: I think I'd have to reserve judgement on that until I had tried higher tier pistols. In the same way my HMG hits a nice range point with the MH-82 where the standard HMG feels just slightly short. Could be that the higher tier pistols are better. For the flaylock if you can hit at that range I'm impressed though it makes for a strong suit if you have height advantage and can hit the ground. The flaylock lacks some of the same drawbacks as other splash damage weapons like the Plasma Cannon or the MD. Its projectile travels in a very direct straight path without falloff. The range value I got from the optimum range thread, so it has an optimum that puts it within range for most weapons like ARs unlike the SMG or Scrambler. It does suffer from hit detection issues on direct fire though.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 841	Posted - 2013.06.18 16:31:00 - [38] - Quote What about travel time?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 862	Posted - 2013.06.18 17:35:00 - [39] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: What about travel time? Well, it's not hitscan of course, but it seems faster than a MD or Plasma Cannon projectile to me (and not just due to the path being a line instead of an arc). Scrambler and SMG fire will hit quicker, but the Flaylock isn't slow with respect to projectile speed or fire rate. It's the 3-round clip that slows down your attacks. That and the wonky hit detection. It really is easier to aim at people's feet.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 871	Posted - 2013.06.19 04:50:00 - [40] - Quote You could probably pick up 5-10 of the std-Aurum ones if you just wanted to try them. I'd like to be able to fire back and hit people with pistols in the 40-50m range in general though. Don't you think it makes sense for a pulse-laser pistol to be able to hit back into the general range of a full-auto plasma-blaster weapon? Even as a pistol, I don't think the laser-tech would have that much of a range nerf compared to a blaster.

Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 844	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:15:00 - [41] - Quote Making sense is a terrible idea in the entertainment industry. I guess I'm at an advantage there though, since my HMG already has me in closer range than most.That being said a good point is it would not be good for the pistol to be a weapon able to simulate a long range primary weapon. Like using a shotgun then a pistol for engaging at range, or same with an HMG if it can shoot that far out. Right now though I took a brief break from the game and my aim is crap so it's hard to use recent encounters for my thoughts. Sucking too hard.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 932	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:22:00 - [42] - Quote I'm not sure if the optimum on the Flaylock is "too long", but I feel the Scrambler's is too short. I guess that would be the "short" of it.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 39	Posted - 2013.06.20 04:12:00 - [43] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm not sure if the optimum on the Flaylock is "too long", but I feel the Scrambler's is too short. I guess that would be the "short" of it. That was bad and you should feel bad.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 945	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:07:00 - [44] - Quote Still, this is pretty basic stuff here.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 39	Posted - 2013.06.24 05:21:00 - [45] - Quote Presumably, inconveniencing paying customers is a footnote in the scope of larger bugs still being rampant.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 883	Posted - 2013.06.24 14:49:00 - [46] - Quote This is true, and my words on balancing in conjunction with this may provide the reason. Granted I believe it to be an argument hanging by a thread but if it even needs investigation then other things will take precedence. Still hoping for a solution though.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 984	Posted - 2013.06.25 18:56:00 - [47] - Quote Posts in Feedback are sort of like reality show contestants trying not to be voted off before they get noticed.
Dehlia Metii not in a corporation 19	Posted - 2013.06.26 09:42:00 - [48] - Quote This keeps slipping!
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 897	Posted - 2013.06.26 12:50:00 - [49] - Quote All I'm saying here. Is make the Dren pistol CPU/PG match a regular pistol. Then make it fire like an SMG, then give impact points a bonus splash EMP effect, then automatically deploy an orbital on that location. Even in PC. F everyone, scorched earth man.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1009	Posted - 2013.06.26 22:53:00 - [50] - Quote I'm curious about that recruiter scrambler now too, but that stuff may not be of standard quality.

Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 39	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:12:00 - [51] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm curious about that recruiter scrambler now too, but that stuff may not be of standard quality. That should be interesting, considering their apparent stance here at the moment.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 910	Posted - 2013.06.28 13:43:00 - [52] - Quote The info is incredibly old and unreliable but these items were included in the data dump given to us before uprising. The data was found to be fairly inaccurate and was quickly changed for balancing and etc. However what I can tell you is the original stats (note NO fitting info was included) matched that of the militia pistol in that it had a longer reload time. Based on the progression of the stats I've seen since then it is likely it will be a pure militia weapon. Also note that the recruiter AR has the ammo capacity of militia, these two things aren't stats that were updated nor initially incorrect. It is likely that all recruit rewards are militia grade BPOs.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 34	Posted - 2013.06.28 14:36:00 - [53] - Quote Yeah, I noticed all the Dren stuff was not created equally. IIRC the ar is equivalent to basic version the pistol is = to the militia version but with slightly better reload time, in other words, the BPO is useless unless you've got CPU to spare. 99% of the time using the basic scrambler pistol is better. This doesn't bother me so much since its cheap. Since its a sidearm, the extra CPU taken up is a big deal (its significant). Swarm launcher = between basic and militia. Has militia fittings but clip size of basic. My AA suits are cheap (so I can tunnel-vision tanks without too much worry) and not hurting for CPU, so I don't mind this so much, and I appreciate the extra shot in the clip. Since I don't particularly want to spec into swarms yet, this BPO is still pretty useful. Shotgun = same as above, better clip size, fittings of militia. I haven't unlocked regular shotguns anyway, so the extra 2 shots and cheap shotgun are still very nice. I was running scout with militia shotgun before and didn't feel particularly compelled to upgrade before. The BPO is an upgrade anyway, so I'm happy. Once I unlock regular shotguns though, I'll probably find a need to save that CPU to squeeze better mods on my basic scout suit, at which point the BPO will be distinctly less useful. I can totally understand why CCP would want the dren swarm launcher and shotgun to not be a no-skill needed versions as they need lvl 3 and lvl 4 light weapon skill to unlock them normally. I'm OK if they live in a wierd limbo between militia and basic. The scrambler pistol is just pointless however and definitely needs addressing.
Melai For'Aiur Shining Flame Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.30 10:57:00 - [54] - Quote The Scrambler Pistol (STD) is already so cheap, I can't imagine this is out of concern for the economy.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1059	Posted - 2013.07.02 11:51:00 - [55] - Quote Melai For'Aiur wrote: The Scrambler Pistol (STD) is already so cheap, I can't imagine this is out of concern for the economy. I still think it's a mistake, but that might just be me.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 919	Posted - 2013.07.02 12:28:00 - [56] - Quote Melai For'Aiur wrote: The Scrambler Pistol (STD) is already so cheap, I can't imagine this is out of concern for the economy. Well I imagine it would be more a concern for balance. The pistol has a tremendous potential for killing in the right hands. I assure you I am not those hands. But I know they exist. Granted the costs aren't much of a concern, but balancing could be. I might be unaware of some history that might indicate it as a potential threat, and you have to wonder if a pistol had been released with the merc packs instead of the SMG, what would be more popular now? I don't think the above warrants the situation but it's a thought and when you have incomplete information like we do sometimes it's best to find the possibility of arguments rather than assuming. Still. Dren. Dren. Dren. Dren. That also being said if the Devs are looking for more arguments, I hope they consider the fact that the change they are implementing in regards to event rewards as indicated by the weekly feedback responses thread is fundamentally related to the Dren Pistol. Namely that the nature of the event rewards precludes them from use or at least common use. Granted this is a different issue but if melted down it has the same result. Due to the cost (one being inventory, the other being fitting) the item becomes less desirable to be used. The Dren less so (I sure as **** am never equipping a Black Eagle suit), but this does not mean it isn't important as well. The dren is unusable on many of my fits, therefore it is not used, therefore I have a nice reward that I think is cool but cannot use and becomes a trophy. I'd also like to re-iterate that while this is easily fit on lower tier suits (I have electronics 5, engineering 4, core upgrades 3), the Dren pistol is a sidearm and therefore often relegated to "additional". By which I mean I would not invest additional ISK due to the fact that it is not in heavy use and the currency would be too often wasted. What that means is if we compare it to the Dren AR, where in prototype gear you might look crazy using it. A prototype scout, assault, heavy (if you're into that kind of thing) would be much diminished because you're increasing capability but not improving on the killing tool (which is often the goal). So the contrast is the pistol is 100% still an option in those proto suits. I might run a Boundless on my heavy but I have much less incentive to improve on my sidearm in the same way. So while I might wear a proto suit with full complex mods, adv-proto grenades, and proto weapon, you will probably still see a standard sidearm as backup. So this means that the viability of the Dren Pistol is increased as opposed to the other weapons in terms of frequency. However the fitting when placed on anything but basic or lower suits becomes an issue when better modules and weapons are asking for the CPU/PG. The point being, the nature of the weapon and it's role means that the fitting becomes a major issue that removes ranging worth of the basic sidearm that the other versions enjoy. Another comparison might be if the Dren AR had militia CPU/PG use, and the effect that would have on Adv and Proto logi fittings. Would you fit that CPU/PG on adv/proto logi when you could fit better modules and equipment? The weapon is often secondary if you are playing a support role but if it impacts you're primary objective it will not remain in place.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1090	Posted - 2013.07.03 04:19:00 - [57] - Quote Was anything changed in the 1.2 update?
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 966	Posted - 2013.07.05 13:24:00 - [58] - Quote Nope
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1135	Posted - 2013.07.05 14:03:00 - [59] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Nope My condolences.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 43	Posted - 2013.07.07 03:30:00 - [60] - Quote "CCP don't care about Amarr/Scramblers" /Kanye

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1262	Posted - 2013.07.08 06:21:00 - [61] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: "CCP don't care about Amarr/Scramblers" /Kanye If the Commando is any indication, they actively hate the Amarr. That's somewhat separate from apparently incorrect stats on the pistol though.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1013	Posted - 2013.07.10 11:39:00 - [62] - Quote Still hoping
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1315	Posted - 2013.07.11 12:53:00 - [63] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Still hoping Wishing and hoping and thinking and praying
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 329	Posted - 2013.07.11 13:20:00 - [64] - Quote at least the scrambler pistol, if not the swarm launcher or shotgun.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 57	Posted - 2013.07.15 12:46:00 - [65] - Quote Oso Peresoso wrote: at least the scrambler pistol, if not the swarm launcher or shotgun. Clearly having a sidearm with STD-level fitting is game-breaking... unless it's the Toxin SMG... or the Syndicate SMG. STD-level ARs like the Exile, Dren, or Toxin are cool too.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1042	Posted - 2013.07.15 15:17:00 - [66] - Quote don't forget sniper rifle. Covenant has basic stats.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1322	Posted - 2013.07.16 10:50:00 - [67] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: don't forget sniper rifle. Covenant has basic stats. It's a nice rifle too.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1046	Posted - 2013.07.19 13:06:00 - [68] - Quote Don't really see too many sidearm kills from anyone these days, still see SMG but not as much as before. Would love to have a complete dren suit too. Pew pew.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1339	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:47:00 - [69] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Don't really see too many sidearm kills from anyone these days, still see SMG but not as much as before. Would love to have a complete dren suit too. Pew pew. The range adjustment still has the pistol sitting pretty low range, the SMG benefited more by being a bullet-hose I think. Then again, the SMG has a STD BPO (more than one I guess) and the Scrambler does not.... hmm..
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 59	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:39:00 - [70] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Rynx Sinfar wrote: Don't really see too many sidearm kills from anyone these days, still see SMG but not as much as before. Would love to have a complete dren suit too. Pew pew. The range adjustment still has the pistol sitting pretty low range, the SMG benefited more by being a bullet-hose I think. Then again, the SMG has a STD BPO (more than one I guess) and the Scrambler does not.... hmm.. I'd agree with that. You can do a long-ish range attack with an SMG (like from atop a building) and get somewhere by sheer volume. The scrambler pistol doesn't share that sort of power, even with the range adjustment.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1365	Posted - 2013.07.25 04:43:00 - [71] - Quote The pistol is meant to be a more precision weapon, but the range fall-off isn't overly kind to it I guess. I wonder if they'll take another look at ranges when the other two come out. I'd assume Ion < Flaylock < Scrambler < Bolt pistol range-wise by tech? I think the Flaylock may outrange the Scrambler as-is, and "Little rockets" aren't the same as bullets I guess. Lasers don't get to explode either though...
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 698	Posted - 2013.07.25 04:50:00 - [72] - Quote LOL. Holy **. that is funny as OP. So damn happy I didn't buy those bpo packs. MLT fitting costs?? For real?! That is funny as *. They fkin charge you a Pound and a Crown for some MLT bpos. That's beyond all kinds of phucked up. Holy phucking . That's outrageous. Gonna spread this ** like wild fire, OP. It's cute too, because they hide the fitting requirements and the stats of the bpo gear. LOL good catch OP. So sorry for them ripping you like this.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1055	Posted - 2013.07.25 12:28:00 - [73] - Quote Jathniel wrote: LOL. Holy **. that is funny as OP. So damn happy I didn't buy those bpo packs. MLT fitting costs?? For real?! That is funny as *. They fkin charge you a Pound and a Crown for some MLT bpos. That's beyond all kinds of phucked up. Holy phucking . That's outrageous. Gonna spread this ** like wild fire, OP. It's cute too, because they hide the fitting requirements and the stats of the bpo gear. LOL good catch OP. So sorry for them ripping you like this. It is just a couple of them. Dren rifle is standard, can't remember the others but I haven't had issue fitting the shotgun on the few occasions I did (not my weapon of choice). Additionally the Dren Logi IS a 0 SP cost tier 1 logi BPO unlike the Sver which requires you to be skilled into it. I skilled into Gallante Logi where the basic version has bad stats so having that Dren Minmatar Logi is a nice fall back. Assault is shrug, already had dragonfly but I like being able to put together a solid skin color with the weapon, I do have a fitting with the swarm launcher just in case but I'm pretty deep into forges, and then it also gives me access to a Tier 1 Sentinel (or heavy, idk their stats are the same) which is good for going low cost on my heavy which can be difficult. I don't think there is another option for a free Heavy non-militia suit. Also that being said the Ishukune Watch Saga is pretty nice and I was able to put some decent militia BPO mods on it without skilling into CPU/PG. It's nothing special but it's free and better than the normal free. Also for whatever reason the Dren Swarm Launcher won't zoom in but I'm not sure if that is a bonus or a penalty since it locks on the same.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1372	Posted - 2013.07.26 02:28:00 - [74] - Quote I don't think any of the swarm launchers have scopes/aim anymore. Not sure why.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 209	Posted - 2013.07.26 09:23:00 - [75] - Quote Any update on this? $100 is a lot for militia gear....
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1055	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:48:00 - [76] - Quote RedRebelCork wrote: Any update on this? $100 is a lot for militia gear.... Again, the pistol and swarm launcher are the only one with mixed stats. MIXED not miltiia. Pistol and swarm launcher have the stats of the basic versions of their weapons but use the CPU/PG of militia. Shotgun and AR have basic stats for both weapon stats and fitting. All suits are basic tier of their respective role.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1394	Posted - 2013.07.29 16:08:00 - [77] - Quote Fitting directly impacts what else you can fit though. It's more significant than fractions of a second on reload.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1055	Posted - 2013.07.29 16:13:00 - [78] - Quote True but his response implied everything was just militia level, don't like misconceptions
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1401	Posted - 2013.07.29 20:53:00 - [79] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: True but his response implied everything was just militia level, don't like misconceptions You can't handle the truth.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 62	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:05:00 - [80] - Quote You missed the opportunity for an Inception joke with the Misconception business.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1725	Posted - 2013.08.01 04:42:00 - [81] - Quote Nobody likes those.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1077	Posted - 2013.08.02 20:22:00 - [82] - Quote Guess I'll just go lay down in a ditch and die then Gonna start wearing all black and put some black teardrops by my eye so people know the dark soul that now lies within. Weep not for me... I'm already dead. But yeah seriously look into that.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2410	Posted - 2013.09.25 00:53:00 - [83] - Quote Did this ever get fixed? They were going to look at it... close to two months ago now? I wonder if the fixed stats will be reflected in the upcoming Templar stuff (since the pistol had the same issue there).


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