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[Request] Change Dren Pistol/Swarm Launcher to tier 1 CPU/PG fitting cost

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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 819	Posted - 2013.06.17 06:52:00 - [31] - Quote Perhaps the designers will take a look-see this week in the run up to 1.2.
Nikea Nei Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 25	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:17:00 - [32] - Quote It's because pistols are OP, clearly.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 833	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:23:00 - [33] - Quote In the old build proficient pistol users were actually pretty deadly. They'd use 2 pistols with mods, and focus on headshotting. Without sharpshooter though I think that died out a lot.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 828	Posted - 2013.06.17 21:12:00 - [34] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: In the old build proficient pistol users were actually pretty deadly. They'd use 2 pistols with mods, and focus on headshotting. Without sharpshooter though I think that died out a lot. I wonder how the range adjustments might impact pistols? The... flaylock has the best optimal of pistols right now, since it can hit about 60m out. The SMG and Scrambler are comparatively much shorter, no? I seldom find myself pulling a scrambler out unless I'm blasting someone hacking at point-blank range.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 843	Posted - 2013.06.18 08:23:00 - [35] - Quote I'd prefer a little bit more range on the pistol personally. I think with just iron sights as-is, it wouldn't be too imbalanced.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 840	Posted - 2013.06.18 12:17:00 - [36] - Quote I think I'd have to reserve judgement on that until I had tried higher tier pistols. In the same way my HMG hits a nice range point with the MH-82 where the standard HMG feels just slightly short. Could be that the higher tier pistols are better. For the flaylock if you can hit at that range I'm impressed though it makes for a strong suit if you have height advantage and can hit the ground.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 860	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:49:00 - [37] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: I think I'd have to reserve judgement on that until I had tried higher tier pistols. In the same way my HMG hits a nice range point with the MH-82 where the standard HMG feels just slightly short. Could be that the higher tier pistols are better. For the flaylock if you can hit at that range I'm impressed though it makes for a strong suit if you have height advantage and can hit the ground. The flaylock lacks some of the same drawbacks as other splash damage weapons like the Plasma Cannon or the MD. Its projectile travels in a very direct straight path without falloff. The range value I got from the optimum range thread, so it has an optimum that puts it within range for most weapons like ARs unlike the SMG or Scrambler. It does suffer from hit detection issues on direct fire though.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 841	Posted - 2013.06.18 16:31:00 - [38] - Quote What about travel time?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 862	Posted - 2013.06.18 17:35:00 - [39] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: What about travel time? Well, it's not hitscan of course, but it seems faster than a MD or Plasma Cannon projectile to me (and not just due to the path being a line instead of an arc). Scrambler and SMG fire will hit quicker, but the Flaylock isn't slow with respect to projectile speed or fire rate. It's the 3-round clip that slows down your attacks. That and the wonky hit detection. It really is easier to aim at people's feet.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 871	Posted - 2013.06.19 04:50:00 - [40] - Quote You could probably pick up 5-10 of the std-Aurum ones if you just wanted to try them. I'd like to be able to fire back and hit people with pistols in the 40-50m range in general though. Don't you think it makes sense for a pulse-laser pistol to be able to hit back into the general range of a full-auto plasma-blaster weapon? Even as a pistol, I don't think the laser-tech would have that much of a range nerf compared to a blaster.

Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 844	Posted - 2013.06.19 12:15:00 - [41] - Quote Making sense is a terrible idea in the entertainment industry. I guess I'm at an advantage there though, since my HMG already has me in closer range than most.That being said a good point is it would not be good for the pistol to be a weapon able to simulate a long range primary weapon. Like using a shotgun then a pistol for engaging at range, or same with an HMG if it can shoot that far out. Right now though I took a brief break from the game and my aim is crap so it's hard to use recent encounters for my thoughts. Sucking too hard.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 932	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:22:00 - [42] - Quote I'm not sure if the optimum on the Flaylock is "too long", but I feel the Scrambler's is too short. I guess that would be the "short" of it.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 39	Posted - 2013.06.20 04:12:00 - [43] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm not sure if the optimum on the Flaylock is "too long", but I feel the Scrambler's is too short. I guess that would be the "short" of it. That was bad and you should feel bad.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 945	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:07:00 - [44] - Quote Still, this is pretty basic stuff here.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 39	Posted - 2013.06.24 05:21:00 - [45] - Quote Presumably, inconveniencing paying customers is a footnote in the scope of larger bugs still being rampant.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 883	Posted - 2013.06.24 14:49:00 - [46] - Quote This is true, and my words on balancing in conjunction with this may provide the reason. Granted I believe it to be an argument hanging by a thread but if it even needs investigation then other things will take precedence. Still hoping for a solution though.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 984	Posted - 2013.06.25 18:56:00 - [47] - Quote Posts in Feedback are sort of like reality show contestants trying not to be voted off before they get noticed.
Dehlia Metii not in a corporation 19	Posted - 2013.06.26 09:42:00 - [48] - Quote This keeps slipping!
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 897	Posted - 2013.06.26 12:50:00 - [49] - Quote All I'm saying here. Is make the Dren pistol CPU/PG match a regular pistol. Then make it fire like an SMG, then give impact points a bonus splash EMP effect, then automatically deploy an orbital on that location. Even in PC. F everyone, scorched earth man.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1009	Posted - 2013.06.26 22:53:00 - [50] - Quote I'm curious about that recruiter scrambler now too, but that stuff may not be of standard quality.

Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 39	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:12:00 - [51] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm curious about that recruiter scrambler now too, but that stuff may not be of standard quality. That should be interesting, considering their apparent stance here at the moment.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 910	Posted - 2013.06.28 13:43:00 - [52] - Quote The info is incredibly old and unreliable but these items were included in the data dump given to us before uprising. The data was found to be fairly inaccurate and was quickly changed for balancing and etc. However what I can tell you is the original stats (note NO fitting info was included) matched that of the militia pistol in that it had a longer reload time. Based on the progression of the stats I've seen since then it is likely it will be a pure militia weapon. Also note that the recruiter AR has the ammo capacity of militia, these two things aren't stats that were updated nor initially incorrect. It is likely that all recruit rewards are militia grade BPOs.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 34	Posted - 2013.06.28 14:36:00 - [53] - Quote Yeah, I noticed all the Dren stuff was not created equally. IIRC the ar is equivalent to basic version the pistol is = to the militia version but with slightly better reload time, in other words, the BPO is useless unless you've got CPU to spare. 99% of the time using the basic scrambler pistol is better. This doesn't bother me so much since its cheap. Since its a sidearm, the extra CPU taken up is a big deal (its significant). Swarm launcher = between basic and militia. Has militia fittings but clip size of basic. My AA suits are cheap (so I can tunnel-vision tanks without too much worry) and not hurting for CPU, so I don't mind this so much, and I appreciate the extra shot in the clip. Since I don't particularly want to spec into swarms yet, this BPO is still pretty useful. Shotgun = same as above, better clip size, fittings of militia. I haven't unlocked regular shotguns anyway, so the extra 2 shots and cheap shotgun are still very nice. I was running scout with militia shotgun before and didn't feel particularly compelled to upgrade before. The BPO is an upgrade anyway, so I'm happy. Once I unlock regular shotguns though, I'll probably find a need to save that CPU to squeeze better mods on my basic scout suit, at which point the BPO will be distinctly less useful. I can totally understand why CCP would want the dren swarm launcher and shotgun to not be a no-skill needed versions as they need lvl 3 and lvl 4 light weapon skill to unlock them normally. I'm OK if they live in a wierd limbo between militia and basic. The scrambler pistol is just pointless however and definitely needs addressing.
Melai For'Aiur Shining Flame Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.30 10:57:00 - [54] - Quote The Scrambler Pistol (STD) is already so cheap, I can't imagine this is out of concern for the economy.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1059	Posted - 2013.07.02 11:51:00 - [55] - Quote Melai For'Aiur wrote: The Scrambler Pistol (STD) is already so cheap, I can't imagine this is out of concern for the economy. I still think it's a mistake, but that might just be me.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 919	Posted - 2013.07.02 12:28:00 - [56] - Quote Melai For'Aiur wrote: The Scrambler Pistol (STD) is already so cheap, I can't imagine this is out of concern for the economy. Well I imagine it would be more a concern for balance. The pistol has a tremendous potential for killing in the right hands. I assure you I am not those hands. But I know they exist. Granted the costs aren't much of a concern, but balancing could be. I might be unaware of some history that might indicate it as a potential threat, and you have to wonder if a pistol had been released with the merc packs instead of the SMG, what would be more popular now? I don't think the above warrants the situation but it's a thought and when you have incomplete information like we do sometimes it's best to find the possibility of arguments rather than assuming. Still. Dren. Dren. Dren. Dren. That also being said if the Devs are looking for more arguments, I hope they consider the fact that the change they are implementing in regards to event rewards as indicated by the weekly feedback responses thread is fundamentally related to the Dren Pistol. Namely that the nature of the event rewards precludes them from use or at least common use. Granted this is a different issue but if melted down it has the same result. Due to the cost (one being inventory, the other being fitting) the item becomes less desirable to be used. The Dren less so (I sure as **** am never equipping a Black Eagle suit), but this does not mean it isn't important as well. The dren is unusable on many of my fits, therefore it is not used, therefore I have a nice reward that I think is cool but cannot use and becomes a trophy. I'd also like to re-iterate that while this is easily fit on lower tier suits (I have electronics 5, engineering 4, core upgrades 3), the Dren pistol is a sidearm and therefore often relegated to "additional". By which I mean I would not invest additional ISK due to the fact that it is not in heavy use and the currency would be too often wasted. What that means is if we compare it to the Dren AR, where in prototype gear you might look crazy using it. A prototype scout, assault, heavy (if you're into that kind of thing) would be much diminished because you're increasing capability but not improving on the killing tool (which is often the goal). So the contrast is the pistol is 100% still an option in those proto suits. I might run a Boundless on my heavy but I have much less incentive to improve on my sidearm in the same way. So while I might wear a proto suit with full complex mods, adv-proto grenades, and proto weapon, you will probably still see a standard sidearm as backup. So this means that the viability of the Dren Pistol is increased as opposed to the other weapons in terms of frequency. However the fitting when placed on anything but basic or lower suits becomes an issue when better modules and weapons are asking for the CPU/PG. The point being, the nature of the weapon and it's role means that the fitting becomes a major issue that removes ranging worth of the basic sidearm that the other versions enjoy. Another comparison might be if the Dren AR had militia CPU/PG use, and the effect that would have on Adv and Proto logi fittings. Would you fit that CPU/PG on adv/proto logi when you could fit better modules and equipment? The weapon is often secondary if you are playing a support role but if it impacts you're primary objective it will not remain in place.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1090	Posted - 2013.07.03 04:19:00 - [57] - Quote Was anything changed in the 1.2 update?
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 966	Posted - 2013.07.05 13:24:00 - [58] - Quote Nope
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1135	Posted - 2013.07.05 14:03:00 - [59] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Nope My condolences.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 43	Posted - 2013.07.07 03:30:00 - [60] - Quote "CCP don't care about Amarr/Scramblers" /Kanye



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