And you only just realised this now?

Very well worded tosch. But you have two very different genres here. you can't skim by it, and act shocked that the FPS players find the mmo aspects... BORING.

You can EA this and that. And I agree with you on some points. But what about those like me? Those that 80% of FPS games make up their diet. EA? Activision? You know there are more FPS publishers out there. ARMA, SOCOM, RESISTANCE, PLANETSIDE, UNREAL TOURNAMENT, TRIBES, RAINBOW SIX, SECTION 8 (this game pretty much.. just better features)

It seems your coming from a RPG and MMO perspective.

EVE and Korean mmo players (looking at you korean mmo) giggle at grinds. But not everyone loves to grind. You say those may not love the grind have entitlement issues, but that's as easy as me saying EVE is a OCD delight. Its Boring.


But has to do with one's personal taste. Not entitlement.

You want in depth FPS? It's not this game. Look up Arma, or vegas 2.

Your blame is in the wrong place (singling out those companies) as yes those companies exploited it but they really are catering to the society and we on a whole have been come very entitled.

Blame Apple and MS and Google etc for giving us everything at our fingertips or now, voice. Blame telco's for giving us fast internet and manufacturers for giving us amazing products.....

There is really nobody to blame but the person in the mirror. At the height of a society we indulge and even this global financial crisis hasnt slowed down our appetite. Many out there are struggling but the ones that have are enjoying to their hearts content.

tl; dr all of it. Just skimmed.

Yeah, capitalism, it's a ***** but we gotta deal with it. Until it gets to the point, again, where big developers aren't making games necessarily for the profit we're stuck with people who choose to use videogames as a babysitter, thus creating an influx of people who feel entitled to get what they want because their parents told them they were special... which led to franchises like how CoD is now.

Seriously, if these kids played games like CS 1.6 they'd be flipping **** almost constantly... I'd be headshotting them with the scout and they'd be all like "WTF!?! I'm using the AWP!!! YOU SHOULD BE DED NERF THE SCOUT FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU-!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Right now, I just want to talk about the gaming industry in general. Those other things you pointed out should be reserved for another topic.

What's funny is that you feel entitled enough to think that you know all and that you are the one to "save" these people from the cruel games industry.

I remember Counter Strike Source. I was so scared to turn a corner because of the headshot-aim-bots and wall glitchers, but overall it was still fun and made me think how to approach things.

Well maybe you should step away from the high horse and challenge the people who lap up and love what those companies spill out.

Why do you think they are so many shooters with many similar mechanics - why do you think we are seeing so many sequels and are going to be in a movie Marvel vs DC blockbuster palooza

I think the best you can do is mobilize "this" gamer base to your side and fight for what you want CCP to put out. Population on a whole just want their jollies how they want it and you preaching isnt really having any effect.

I for one wont be so self righteous, there are certain things I care about and feel entitled to - a working product with the bare bones basics done well. I get pissed when I have to wait or things dont function as advertised. I cant blame other companies for putting out better games that make me expect a level of quality.

Now if this is more about just a casual mode where the gamer expects to stomp everything - well that doesnt even work in those games.

In other words, you like having the feeling of 'earning' things over the current setup, and think that anyone who doesn't is an entitled whiner.

I have a better idea.... how about you realize there is a market for casual games out there, and being judgmental doesn't matter at ALL to the people who like those sort of games.

Yes, you do't like it. Yes, there are a lot of casual games out there... But who the **** are you to say people are stupid for liking what they like and having preferences?

Some people like crappy beer too. Sure, they're entitled to their opinion, but it's still a stupid opinion.

There is such a thing as stupid, or dumb, or ignorant. The entitled gamers that Tosh speaks of fall into this category.

Yes, you are all entitled to your stupid opinion. That doesn't make it any less stupid.

Some people like crappy beer too. Sure, they're entitled to their opinion, but it's still a stupid opinion.

I think you missed my point. This has nothing to do with what we should expect from a finished product. This is more to do with how a certain group of players have been conditioned to believe that paying rather than playing to reach a goal is now the norm. Also, have you noticed some players are demanding CCP to compensate them for the recent downtime that resulted from a DDoS attack? CCP's ToS and/or EULA states that CCP is not obligated to give anyone any compensation. Those folks should be happy that CCP was kind enough to plan to compensate them anyways. Then there are those demanding more respecs like it's required by law.

As rekon said, there have been some real gems these last few years, I mean games like heavy rain, littlebig planet, flower, and journey are among the best games I ever played. And say what you like about gears of war it still has one if the beat videogame storylines IMO.

OP, I'm just glad to see that someone here literally QQs over the state of the gaming industry and specifically, a sect of "entitled" gamers that they cater to.

Only thing I gleaned from that wall of text and boy, what a gem.



Had a laugh at the "+1's" and the "well said op's"...what a bunch of drama queens. You read all that drivel? Shame on you.

OP, I'm just glad to see that someone here literally QQs over the state of the gaming industry and specifically, a sect of "entitled" gamers that they cater to.

Only thing I gleaned from that wall of text and boy, what a gem.



Had a laugh at the "+1's" and the "well said op's"...what a bunch of drama queens. You read all that drivel? Shame on you.

Aren't you one hell offa conversationalist! Wish I had been a fly on the wall when you first time met your girlfriend's parents!

The point of my post is that the gaming industry, regardless of genre, is turning into a kind of industry that basically rewards lazy behavior. It's nice to know that there are plenty of games like the ones you mentioned just now that don't follow this concept and I am glad games like Rainbow Six don't have that. But with the forceful marketing of the other games that do follow the concept, it makes me afraid for the future of the industry standards. I don't want Dust to be forced into this concept just to be able to compete with other games.

I remember in the old days when I use to play games like Doom (the original one).

As long as they are making money and idiots keep spending money for their products this wont change. And you cant really blame EA or anyone else. Who needs to spend the time/money to make a great game when an average game can be made and make the same amount of money especially when reviewers now have average games getting great scores. Games like MGS4 gets ranked 10 simply because there is not a scale high enough to show how much better that game is compared to the other games that are ranked a 9.0. This is also why my game library is so small made up of only great games or fun games.

That being said Last of Us looks like they might be breaking the trend.....and Destiny also is looking pretty good. Only time will tell but at this point it does appear that there are some devs that are making really good games. We as gamers just need to know who to support with our dollars as if the good game makers get support at the bad/average not so much then the bad/average will have to step up their game.

In other words, you like having the feeling of 'earning' things over the current setup, and think that anyone who doesn't is an entitled whiner.

I have a better idea.... how about you realize there is a market for casual games out there, and being judgmental doesn't matter at ALL to the people who like those sort of games.

Yes, you do't like it. Yes, there are a lot of casual games out there... But who the **** are you to say people are stupid for liking what they like and having preferences?

Very well worded tosch. But you have two very different genres here. you can't skim by it, and act shocked that the FPS players find the mmo aspects... BORING.

You can EA this and that. And I agree with you on some points. But what about those like me? Those that 80% of FPS games make up their diet. EA? Activision? You know there are more FPS publishers out there. ARMA, SOCOM, RESISTANCE, PLANETSIDE, UNREAL TOURNAMENT, TRIBES, RAINBOW SIX, SECTION 8 (this game pretty much.. just better features)

It seems your coming from a RPG and MMO perspective.

EVE and Korean mmo players (looking at you korean mmo) giggle at grinds. But not everyone loves to grind. You say those may not love the grind have entitlement issues, but that's as easy as me saying EVE is a OCD delight. Its Boring.


But has to do with one's personal taste. Not entitlement.

You want in depth FPS? It's not this game. Look up Arma, or vegas 2.

What's funny is that you feel entitled enough to think that you know all and that you are the one to "save" these people from the cruel games industry.

I know plenty of people who only buy consoles for play FPS or even just one FPS religiously. I never looked at them as "Gamers." The true diversity of enjoyment of games, not a fan of a single type of game over and over and over. Those are just new school casuals the market has figured out how to make more money off of because it requires less dedication to creation and originality. But you also have a huge number of companies these days to select from all looking for one hit instead of a great library.

Yes, you do't like it. Yes, there are a lot of casual games out there... But who the **** are you to say people are stupid for liking what they like and having preferences?

I think the problem is that there used to a market for hard games too - like Korean grinders (oh they joy of taking weeks to get just a % or two XP in Legend of Mir) or hardcore pvp games like Shadowbane. (sorry my background is PC so I guess these are unfamiliar names to many). However nowadays because it costs so much to put a game out they all tend towards the easy/casual. Have to admit I am now a casual player - the years catch you up in the end, but I would still most likely give a new hardgame a go if it got released.

Is it privileged when I want the same level of power as another person? I like competition, and just pouring time into a game for better stats like World of Warcraft kinda makes it impossible to compete unless have spent hours and hours for the gear. Unlockable content is cool, but they should be aesthetics. Else your just a "privleged" combatant of time and gear when skill should matter more. Unless of course you suck and need the leg up that is ^_^


I think thats why I enjoy killing people in proto gear so much. They had the advantage 8o

tl;dr

The point of my post is that the gaming industry, regardless of genre, is turning into a kind of industry that basically rewards lazy behavior.

What does entitlement have to do with this problem? Games are way to easy now, I agree but how are people that play easy games entitled?
I think this is the real problem. Companies like Activision and EA found their big money makers and now their afraid to let them go. Thats why you see the same CoD, or any other game you suggested, every year. Those make money so companies dont want to change the money maker and risk a decrease in profits. As for micro transactions, there just a way for those companies to maximize their profits. Nothing to do with entitlement.
Unless Im misunderstanding something here.

What if I spent three months earning the first horse in a game, and then a few days later I found out that 500 other players now had horses. But this was not due to a bug per se, this was because the game host decided that horses were cool and that players would pay real money for them. Again I describe this in Mona Lisa. Now horses are not cool anymore, and my equity has been destroyed. I'm upset! More importantly, I have now lost confidence in the game world and it's hosts because I know they will not protect my efforts. This is like calling the cops (the people you pay to protect you) and having them mug you when they arrive! I know this really happens in some parts of the world but you don't want it happening in your game space.

Thus all microtransactions that sell game content also destroy equity. This applies to anything normally GÇ£earnedGÇ¥ in a game, whether it is levels, items, abilities or titles.

When a game gets stale and the dev team puts out a new expansion, the addition of new things to earn gives new equity opportunities. This is a good thing. When that same expansion makes previously valuable content worthless, this destroys equity. If it took me 1000 hours to get the top sword in the game, and a new expansion comes out that gives you a better sword in 100 hours, I have just lost equity. While adding new content is usually a welcome change to a game, this dynamic can be treacherous and designers unaware of this can actually kill off their game with expansion content.

Another way we destroy equity in games is by putting resources in GÇ£tiersGÇ¥. If your GÇ£end gameGÇ¥ craftable items only use last tier components, then you have destroyed the equity of all lower tier resources by design. This makes players upset. This design was copied from Everquest into World of Warcraft and even into Guild Wars 2 ten years later despite the presence of an economist embedded in the design team.

Again, I don't blame you for feeling so entitled. It's not your fault. You fell for the trap that many of these companies setup just for you. I hope you realize the slavery of your life in this prison.

I think this is the real problem. Companies like Activision and EA found their big money makers and now their afraid to let them go. Thats why you see the same CoD, or any other game you suggested, every year. Those make money so companies dont want to change the money maker and risk a decrease in profits. As for micro transactions, there just a way for those companies to maximize their profits.
Unless Im misunderstanding something here.

Nice one OP, but that's what happens over time things change, the mentality for gaming has changed and the under 25-30 crowd nowadays have no idea what your talking about.

Games have gotten easier, the genres broader and more accessible, the game companies much larger and need to exploit wallets more. Plus common check out how popular COD is, and next time your out for a pint check how stupid kids are these days.

I'm reading quite a bit of pining for the good old days when the focus of gaming was a good campaign. Pining for days long past is not adapting. Its whimpering as you die and the gaming industry passes you by.