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Cygnus Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
60
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Posted - 2013.05.31 06:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
Night Ward wrote:*snip*
Just seems to me that downgrading a game so much from what was shown in 2009 isn't the right move...
That's all, 'folks. Goodnight.
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Osbor robsO
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.05.31 06:49:00 -
[62] - Quote
oh, the lamentations of "what could have been".
to be fair if they port the game to ps4 with the unreal 4 engine and focus on the sound design and feel, as well asn++ adding all the missing content, the game could end up looking a lot like this
and this is what you get for putting a game on unreal engine on a console. not only that, but unreal on the PS3, possibly the most developer unfriendly hardware there is |
Panther Alpha
Commando Perkone Caldari State
334
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Posted - 2013.05.31 08:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Night Ward wrote:So if the PS3 can't handle Carbon, why downgrade the gameplay, content and quality so drastically to be able to run on PS3? When a new system would be available during the same year of release, especially when releasing a FTP game in a starter line-up for a new Console would or at least seems really good as an invesment?
Who would not try out a free game when they just spent all that money on the new console? Surely the player count would be/should (be) much higher than 10k for a FTP game?
Just seems to me that downgrading a game so much from what was shown in 2009 isn't the right move, but then again what do i know, i am not a game developer, just a gamer. As long as the aurum is rolling in they should be happy i guess.
You don't get it, the Carbon Engine is not the problem, or at least not anymore. Planetside 2 has already confirmed that will be in the PS4, and the player base won't be much higher than 10k in the PS4, why ? you may ask ? How Dust 514 is right now, is relieving purely in the current player base, which are mostly EvE players, and few hardcore games that "want" to believe. Not everyone in the current player base, will buy a PS4 immediately, maybe 25% ? That will be a disaster for CCP.
Before the game can be ported to any other platform, it have to improve significantly, and even then..I still think that PC will be the sensible platform for CCP to move too. |
Syther Shadows
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
87
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Posted - 2013.05.31 09:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Can i just point out when ps4 comes out there is probable a possibility that they will be able to run the game in the EVE engine
but how they will do cross console play i don't know
maybe they will separate the ps3 and ps4 mercs ? ~who knows |
Calroon DeVil
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
52
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Posted - 2013.05.31 09:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Just, lol. What a massive let-down. |
Vyn Drayko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.05.31 10:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
I don't much care about the graphics of the game. Graphics in games are always trying to rival each other, and some of the greatest games ever have mediocre graphics (Morrowind for example is still being in sold in stores for PC)
I'm curious/upset why they scrapped the FEATURES.
Fully enterable buildings Open Air vehicles Fighters Command Centers Construction by commander Long distance resupply/battles
They obviously made the attempt in the original beta, when we had the multi-stage maps. Those were at least interesting even if there were only two.
Now, Dust is a watered down game where every mission is identical except for the field you play on where all that matters is whether or not you have a duvolle tac, instead of having a skilled commander/logistics organization. |
Spaceman-Rob
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
81
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Posted - 2013.05.31 10:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
That Epic Demo as you call it looks like crap lol |
P Nasty
Bridge Nine Collective
1
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
Seems like a lot of people are being introduced to the wonderful world of game design, aka being forced to scale back a vision cause it simply can't be done.
Dust should've been a PC shooter plain and simple. The engine isn't the issue, UE3 is capable of amazing feats. Hell, look at Call of Duty. Each one has great visuals, ultra tight controls and a constant 60 FPS on console with no exceptions (which is why they are the most popular; as much as I hate COD I can't stand playing anything sub-60FPS now) and COD runs off of a QUAKE 3 engine....that thing is damn near ancient! Its flexible and moddable and its 2013 and still working.
The issue is CCP bit off more than they could chew and they realized by the time they get a finished product out and available with all the bells and whistles they want, the new generation of consoles will be here with games like Destiny dragging away the player base. As great as Dust can be, if you give me an online shooter with 60+ FPS and solid gameplay guess what I'm probably going to go to? Maybe if I had a commitment to EVE I'd stick around but I don't. I'm hoping to BUILD one in time though.
Dust is a prime example of realize in development. What we want, what they want, vs what is actually achievable in such a large scale project. This is the result. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1744
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vyn Drayko wrote:I don't much care about the graphics of the game. Graphics in games are always trying to rival each other, and some of the greatest games ever have mediocre graphics (Morrowind for example is still being in sold in stores for PC)
I'm curious/upset why they scrapped the FEATURES.
Fully enterable buildings Open Air vehicles Fighters Command Centers Construction by commander Long distance resupply/battles
They obviously made the attempt in the original beta, when we had the multi-stage maps. Those were at least interesting even if there were only two.
Now, Dust is a watered down game where every mission is identical except for the field you play on where all that matters is whether or not you have a duvolle tac, instead of having a skilled commander/logistics organization. Those features aren't scrapped. ALL of them are confirmed for later deployment.
Whether or not they should have launched when they did is immaterial at this point. They did, and there's no going back. At this point, they're working on deploying more features while fixing current issues, so the release date honestly doesn't mean much to us.
I have complete confidence that we'll see everything that was in the 2009 Stage Demo by next year, by the third expansion if not the second. Hell, we already having ******* MTACs confirmed for the first one, and the CSM has hinted that we might even be getting new planet types before PC spreads from Molden Heath.
Keep calm and shoot on. |
P Nasty
Bridge Nine Collective
2
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
If Dust were a PC title it would've been more expandable, and would've been guaranteed a long shelf life. Being on PS3 its already got a time frame on it.
Yes its a great idea, yes its a breath of fresh air (less so than earlier builds, I'm finding when I explain it to people I'm able to break it down into COD terms...just reskinned), but coming from a PS3 player its 100% on the wrong platform. |
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JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
226
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:44:00 -
[71] - Quote
Viewing that original trailer still gives me goosbumps. So the general feeling is CCP switched engines but I don't quite buy that. Switching engines does not mean that you have to make new sounds from scratch, audio files should be one of the few things that would transfer with very little extra effort.
Focus on the sounds in that video, the gritty assault weapon sounds, the tracer whistles, the dropship sound when lifting off gives the impression of weight and power. Even the sounds in this current build are 4 years behind what they had back then. The excuse "we switched to Unreal Engine" does not cut it for me.
Looking closely at the details in that video, the concrete barriers are literally the same we have now. In fact, it looks like the build they showed there is about one year away from the current build if they maintain the same amount of progress as we have seen in the past.
The unreal engine can be beatiful on PS3, I just bought Bioshock infinite and that is a very pretty game with terrific sounds. I can understand sacrificing graphics to fit more players into the game but we are still at about the same capacity as Battlefield3 boasts for ps3 in terms of player counts.
There is simply no excuse for the way this game has progressed in my opinion. New engine or not, something else happened within this company and design of the game that drastically changed what they were capable of. It could very well be as simple as they ran out of money. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1745
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:Viewing that original trailer still gives me goosbumps. So the general feeling is CCP switched engines but I don't quite buy that. Switching engines does not mean that you have to make new sounds from scratch, audio files should be one of the few things that would transfer with very little extra effort.
Focus on the sounds in that video, the gritty assault weapon sounds, the tracer whistles, the dropship sound when lifting off gives the impression of weight and power. Even the sounds in this current build are 4 years behind what they had back then. The excuse "we switched to Unreal Engine" does not cut it for me.
Looking closely at the details in that video, the concrete barriers are literally the same we have now. In fact, it looks like the build they showed there is about one year away from the current build if they maintain the same amount of progress as we have seen in the past.
The unreal engine can be beatiful on PS3, I just bought Bioshock infinite and that is a very pretty game with terrific sounds. I can understand sacrificing graphics to fit more players into the game but we are still at about the same capacity as Battlefield3 boasts for ps3 in terms of player counts.
There is simply no excuse for the way this game has progressed in my opinion. New engine or not, something else happened within this company and design of the game that drastically changed was they were capable of. It could very well be as simple as they ran out of money. Did you see my earlier post?
"Switching engines" quite literally means writing your game over again from scratch. As I said in my previous post, even migrating the game I used to work on from CryEngine 2.5 to CryEngine 3 would have involved throwing out everything we'd made and starting over.
Please don't make grand pronouncements about things you don't understand.
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JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
226
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:JonnyAugust wrote:Viewing that original trailer still gives me goosbumps. So the general feeling is CCP switched engines but I don't quite buy that. Switching engines does not mean that you have to make new sounds from scratch, audio files should be one of the few things that would transfer with very little extra effort.
Focus on the sounds in that video, the gritty assault weapon sounds, the tracer whistles, the dropship sound when lifting off gives the impression of weight and power. Even the sounds in this current build are 4 years behind what they had back then. The excuse "we switched to Unreal Engine" does not cut it for me.
Looking closely at the details in that video, the concrete barriers are literally the same we have now. In fact, it looks like the build they showed there is about one year away from the current build if they maintain the same amount of progress as we have seen in the past.
The unreal engine can be beatiful on PS3, I just bought Bioshock infinite and that is a very pretty game with terrific sounds. I can understand sacrificing graphics to fit more players into the game but we are still at about the same capacity as Battlefield3 boasts for ps3 in terms of player counts.
There is simply no excuse for the way this game has progressed in my opinion. New engine or not, something else happened within this company and design of the game that drastically changed was they were capable of. It could very well be as simple as they ran out of money. Did you see my earlier post? "Switching engines" quite literally means writing your game over again from scratch. As I said in my previous post, even migrating the game I used to work on from CryEngine 2.5 to CryEngine 3 would have involved throwing out everything we'd made and starting over. Please don't make grand pronouncements about things you don't understand.
Pre-recorded sounds inside a sound studio and then formatted for a different engine are then rendered useless by the simple switching of a engine?
You're blinded by your own ego and percieved experience. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1747
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:JonnyAugust wrote:Viewing that original trailer still gives me goosbumps. So the general feeling is CCP switched engines but I don't quite buy that. Switching engines does not mean that you have to make new sounds from scratch, audio files should be one of the few things that would transfer with very little extra effort.
Focus on the sounds in that video, the gritty assault weapon sounds, the tracer whistles, the dropship sound when lifting off gives the impression of weight and power. Even the sounds in this current build are 4 years behind what they had back then. The excuse "we switched to Unreal Engine" does not cut it for me.
Looking closely at the details in that video, the concrete barriers are literally the same we have now. In fact, it looks like the build they showed there is about one year away from the current build if they maintain the same amount of progress as we have seen in the past.
The unreal engine can be beatiful on PS3, I just bought Bioshock infinite and that is a very pretty game with terrific sounds. I can understand sacrificing graphics to fit more players into the game but we are still at about the same capacity as Battlefield3 boasts for ps3 in terms of player counts.
There is simply no excuse for the way this game has progressed in my opinion. New engine or not, something else happened within this company and design of the game that drastically changed was they were capable of. It could very well be as simple as they ran out of money. Did you see my earlier post? "Switching engines" quite literally means writing your game over again from scratch. As I said in my previous post, even migrating the game I used to work on from CryEngine 2.5 to CryEngine 3 would have involved throwing out everything we'd made and starting over. Please don't make grand pronouncements about things you don't understand. Englighten me how the pre-recorded sounds inside a sound studio and then formatted for a different engine are then rendered useless by the simple switching of a engine? You're blinded by your own ego and percieved experience to have any decent opinion on this matter. So you just play an audio file and it sounds right in all situations? You do realize how much the engine sculpts and modifies the audio file to make it suit the environment you're playing in, right? That's been a standard of game design for quite a while, as just varying the sound volume based on distance with no reflection of surroundings kind of went out of style more than a decade ago.
If you want more information, look up the videos Bungie made on their sound design in Halo, and setting up the engine to allow sounds to echo off of some objects and be muffled by others. You don't just code that and have it sound perfect with whatever file you put in, you have to tweak the original file along with the underlying code until they form the proper mix. |
JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
226
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:56:00 -
[75] - Quote
[/quote] So you just play an audio file and it sounds right in all situations? You do realize how much the engine sculpts and modifies the audio file to make it suit the environment you're playing in, right? That's been a standard of game design for quite a while, as just varying the sound volume based on distance with no reflection of surroundings kind of went out of style more than a decade ago.
If you want more information, look up the videos Bungie made on their sound design in Halo, and setting up the engine to allow sounds to echo off of some objects and be muffled by others. You don't just code that and have it sound perfect with whatever file you put in, you have to tweak the original file along with the underlying code until they form the proper mix.[/quote]
Apples and Oranges, I'm talking about the actual sounds in that video. I didnt mention reverb or any additional processing, that's a whole seperate topic. No amount of processing is going to make the current AR sound like the one in that video. No Processing is going to make that dropship sound the way it did in that video.
The basic sound quality of everything in DUST514 is below the basic sound quality in that video.
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1750
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 13:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
So you just play an audio file and it sounds right in all situations? You do realize how much the engine sculpts and modifies the audio file to make it suit the environment you're playing in, right? That's been a standard of game design for quite a while, as just varying the sound volume based on distance with no reflection of surroundings kind of went out of style more than a decade ago.
If you want more information, look up the videos Bungie made on their sound design in Halo, and setting up the engine to allow sounds to echo off of some objects and be muffled by others. You don't just code that and have it sound perfect with whatever file you put in, you have to tweak the original file along with the underlying code until they form the proper mix.[/quote]
Apples and Oranges, I'm talking about the actual sounds in that video. I didnt mention reverb or any additional processing, that's a whole seperate topic. No amount of processing is going to make the current AR sound like the one in that video. No Processing is going to make that dropship sound the way it did in that video.
The basic sound quality of everything in DUST514 is below the basic sound quality in that video.
[/quote] Uh, all the guns in that trailer sounded like something you could fire today. The weapon designs were the same way.
When I look at that trailer, I feel like I'm back trying to figure out how Halo justifies everyone using regular old bullets and not a single directed energy weapon in sight more than 500 years in the future when we have functional ones right now.
This is related to the same "nostalgia" factor of all the people who want to go back to the earlier Dust builds, completely discounting all the claims of terrible mechanics and boring gameplay they themselves made while playing those builds. What we have no may not have the same feature set as that build, but when it does, there won't be any reason to look fondly at that old junk anymore.
When I watch that demo, I hear current day weapons with extra bits added on to sound "futurey".
When I play Dust today, I feel like I'm actually an immortal soldier 20k years in the future.
Does the audio need more work? Of course, and the audio team themselves stated that in their DevBlog on the topic. Just like with EVE, we'll be getting iteration on sound design for many years to come, and new assets with new sounds being deployed into the mix.
If you're worried about quality, what we have right now is far from the final version. |
JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
226
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Posted - 2013.05.31 13:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
I don't like the argument that future sounds have to sound wimpy. I could care less if things have bullets or not (mind you nearly every small weapon in this game has a clip)
The lack of punch in any of the sounds to date are an immediate turnoff for anyone starting this game. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
257
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Posted - 2013.05.31 13:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
The main thing? Up-front Money vs Back-end Money. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1751
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 13:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:I don't like the argument that future sounds have to sound wimpy. I could care less if things have bullets or not (mind you nearly every small weapon in this game has a clip)
The lack of punch in any of the sounds to date are an immediate turnoff for anyone starting this game. That AR didn't sound like it had punch. It sounded like it was firing pellets.
As well, that's partially why the redid the AR sound to what it is now. It has that nice bass thump on the bottom of the shot to make it feel like you're shooting a powerful weapon while still leaving you with the distinction that you're firing plasma and not bullets.
I think a lot of this will get cleared up when you hear the Combat Rifle. Since it's firing an otherwise unremarkable ammo type, I bet you anything they'll make up for it with volume and lot's of delicious bass, just like Minmatar weapons in EVE. I would wager that all Minmatar weapons will be the same way.
The weapons we have right now are energy weapons, and they sound like energy weapons. The HMG sounds like a rotary cannon should, and the SMG is firing tiny little rounds that don't have much of a kick. Once we get more of that race's weapons, you'll likely see that they're designing the audio around the type of gun you're firing.
I can see where you're coming from, but you don't want to end up like Halo 4 where everything sounded overly chunky and for one example, the AR sounded like a heavy machine gun because they wanted "beefier audio".
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JonnyAugust
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
226
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Posted - 2013.05.31 13:22:00 -
[80] - Quote
I think we are starting to see where each other are coming from. I just finished a match and listened to the MCC exploding. I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion why the explosion of a ship the size of an outpost sounds like someone yawning. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1767
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 13:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:I think we are starting to see where each other are coming from. I just finished a match and listened to the MCC exploding. I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion why the explosion of a ship the size of an outpost sounds like someone yawning. An excellent example of something that needs more work. I think most of their audio design has been focused on weapons over the last few months, as that MCC explosion sound hasn't changed for quite a while. In fact, I'm not sure it's different from when I got in for Replication last April, but don't quote me on that. |
Night Ward
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2013.05.31 19:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
Oh well, hopefully CCP will pull through sooner than later and bring us what was advertised in 2009 sooner than later. Can't wait to get invested in that version of the game. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1767
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 19:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ok, in response to Jonny's statements about sound, how about this as a suggestion.
In the Battletech universe, there is a weapon called a Particle Projection Cannon, which is effectively a plasma cannon.
They've had kind of wimpy sounds in previous MechWarrior titles, so for Living Legends, we decided to mix in the sound of a lightning bolt.
How about we go from the current AR noise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=11F-LuJ-8zs#t=60s
To one with a little bit of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LCxj9D6Pv_8#t=35s
What do you think? |
DeadlyAztec11
One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed.
422
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Posted - 2013.05.31 19:42:00 -
[84] - Quote
BASSMEANT wrote:CCP listened to the codbois. the codbois got ripped up by better players therefor the game was broken.
now ccp has fixed the game for them by breaking it for real players.
same thing happened with mag.
when you listen to garbage gamers... you end up with a player count consistently below 10k
Peace B Lies... I am a fan boy of COD, but even I wanted them to take their time. I was really disappointed when they decided to go into open beta. I was even more disappointed when they released. This game needed at least 1 and a half more in the oven. |
K9 Wez
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
55
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Posted - 2013.05.31 21:42:00 -
[85] - Quote
Seems to me CCP bit of more than they can chew.
Wonder why CCP hasen't commented on this. Would like an official statement on what happened. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1775
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 01:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
K9 Wez wrote:Seems to me CCP bit of more than they can chew.
Wonder why CCP hasen't commented on this. Would like an official statement on what happened. I don't think this is the kind of thing they're required to make official statements on. |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
285
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Posted - 2013.06.01 01:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
" "I don't think this is the kind of thing they're required to make official statements on."
or...
it's not polite to talk when ones mouth is full.
Peace B |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement
176
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Posted - 2013.06.01 01:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote: So you saying that the following games are rubbish ;
Batman: Arkham Asylum Army of Two: The 40th Day BioShock Infinity Borderlands Borderlands 2 Dishonored DmC: Devil May Cry Gears of War: Judgment
All those games run with the Unreal 3 engine....now i''m of to bed... i let you think about that one.
Yes i will say Bioshock infinite is garbage any day of the week.
"Look at this spectacular world we made...from a rail."
The game writers even poke fun of the players by literally putting the player on a rail...the only clever writing in the whole game by the way.
Kevin Lavine is garbage and his games are garbage....
Still i don't lay the blame on the Unreal engine. |
FatalFlaw V1
ISK Faucet Industries
81
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Posted - 2013.06.01 03:21:00 -
[89] - Quote
How many more times can mobius rush to defend ccp while dropping his past experience working on a game nobody played.
Looking for a job much? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1776
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 03:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
FatalFlaw V1 wrote:How many more times can mobius rush to defend ccp while dropping his past experience working on a game nobody played.
Looking for a job much? Less defense and more making a point it isn't as easy as some people think.
And our mod was actually far more popular in Germany and Russia than in the US. Most of the servers that are still up are based there, which makes it kind of hard to get good pings.
BASSMEANT wrote:" "I don't think this is the kind of thing they're required to make official statements on."
or...
it's not polite to talk when ones mouth is full.
Peace B I'm going to guess the punchline for that one is "of ****", or something similar? |
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