DUST Search - [REQUEST] Weekly Skill Point Cap

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

[REQUEST] Weekly Skill Point Cap

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.30 16:49:00 - [1] - Quote In my opinion CCP Frame, CCP Cmdr Wang and CCP Eterne have failed to deliver, people can read the ORIGINAL POST HERE Quote: Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing. Posted: 2013.01.29 06:18 Posted: 2013.01.29 06:18 Posted: 2013.01.29 06:18 THANK YOU CCP. Issue: There is no way a player who is behind the rest of the so called GÇ£hardcore playersGÇ¥ will be able to catch up in this game, therefore until such SP cap is removed there is no way a person with a life can catch up with other players by just earning 1,500 SP after you hit the cap. All things equal it will require a player to earn 1,142,400 SP with boosters and we must consider an extra million every 9.3 days for every 667 games earning 1,500 SP consistently. Each game takes around 15~25 minutes considering the queue, loading time to waiting room, loading time to the map, the game, loading time out of the game to the scoreboard, loading time to merc quarters and repeat. Assuming there is no squads since it will take you time to wait for people but still earn 1,500 SP each game, assuming you have an infinite amount of stock and that you can eat/poop/sleep/sex/feed your pet/facebook/study/work/hang out you can pull 72 games per day and thus it will take you 9.3 days to earn 1 million SP (222 hours of gameplay). View: GAMERS GO R.I.P. -South Korean 33-year Old Man Plays for 650 Hours -40 Hours of Diablo III Proves Fatal -Chris frequently participated in 12-hour long Halo sessions without breaks and during one fated campaign -Starcraft Addict Plays for 50 Hours If you ever catch up you might be near to death such as those guys who died while playing videogames nonstop for a couple of days and that is saying you do not die. Arguments The classic excuse of get in a squad is irrelevant as squads dissipate and makes an opportunity cost of SP, I believe CCP should explain us how are we supposed to catch up if somebody is willing to dedicate lets say 1 more hour to the game than other person per week then that person should have a higher amount of SP logically. The next argument is to avoid the spread between players being higher SP wise through the weekly cap, this latter argument only exhibits an upward trend in the gap and the gap will widening at an increasing rate, assuming player with high SP continue with their behavior and that players on the bottom start to understand they will not catch up ever. If the cap was to be lifted it will exhibit the diminishing marginal returns principle, at the first the gap will continue as it is right now then it will accelerate just to reach a maximum and the gap will start decreasing as top SP players start feeling comfortable with a constant amount of SP earned through game play and newer players start putting more efforts into earning more SP since there will be no cap to restraint their efforts for playing the game, thus it will attract more players and potential customers. Outcome and Request Lifting the cap can result in the following: -Increment of the player count -Higher player retention rates -Higher sales of boosters and aurum gear -Higher sales of AURUM packages in playstation store -Decrease the gap between players -Higher Diversity in dropsuits and builds -Higher ISK inflows and outflows -A Growing closed economy
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 196	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:01:00 - [2] - Quote Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up. Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.) This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless. Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear).
Whackjack Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:06:00 - [3] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up. Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.) This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless. Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Yes, unlike in EVE where a majority of your chance to hit anything stems from your in-game skills making your guns track faster and fire faster and all that jazz, in DUST it's all about how quickly you can mouse/stick the targeting reticule over the enemy and keep it there. Player skill instead of "ctrl+click and f1."
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 196	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:11:00 - [4] - Quote Whackjack wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up. Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.) This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless. Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Yes, unlike in EVE where a majority of your chance to hit anything stems from your in-game skills making your guns track faster and fire faster and all that jazz, in DUST it's all about how quickly you can mouse/stick the targeting reticule over the enemy and keep it there. Player skill instead of "ctrl+click and f1." You're greatly underestimating the skill factor in EVE (tell an interceptor pilot his job is just to click approach, then orbit, and start shooting; better yet, ask the proteus pilot that hit approach on my sieged blaster moros lol). That said, you're right where you're talking about dust :-)
Whackjack Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:17:00 - [5] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: You're greatly underestimating the skill factor in EVE (tell an interceptor pilot his job is just to click approach, then orbit, and start shooting; better yet, ask the proteus pilot that hit approach on my sieged blaster moros lol). That said, you're right where you're talking about dust :-) Yes, I know that with manual flying you can reduce the rad/sec and such to get hits on smaller/faster targets (I can't do it for **** but I've seen it done) but that's why I said "mostly." Most of a ships damage application and aim comes from skills and not so much from the player's ability to keep a steady aim. The other stuff you mentioned was damage evaison. But yeah, to those who can manual fly to do great things, I salute you. o7
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 197	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:29:00 - [6] - Quote Whackjack wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: You're greatly underestimating the skill factor in EVE (tell an interceptor pilot his job is just to click approach, then orbit, and start shooting; better yet, ask the proteus pilot that hit approach on my sieged blaster moros lol). That said, you're right where you're talking about dust :-) Yes, I know that with manual flying you can reduce the rad/sec and such to get hits on smaller/faster targets (I can't do it for **** but I've seen it done) but that's why I said "mostly." Most of a ships damage application and aim comes from skills and not so much from the player's ability to keep a steady aim. The other stuff you mentioned was damage evaison. But yeah, to those who can manual fly to do great things, I salute you. o7 If you want a great way to practice, use an assault frigate for l4 missions (if your skills are high enough, message Spork Witch and I have an ishkur fit you're welcome to). It requires paying attention to angles so you don't get nailed bad, and it also requires managing even radial velocity to help your damage output (there are some enemies you can't kill without doing it right, though i've only run into one npc ever in l4s that i couldn't put out enough DPS to finish off solo). I'll also provide you with the full turret damage formula if you like, i have it (and the missile formula) saved as a note on EVE.
Judy Maat Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 52	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:40:00 - [7] - Quote "players on the bottom start to understand they will not catch up ever" GVGISDEAD THIS^^
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 197	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:50:00 - [8] - Quote Judy Maat wrote: "players on the bottom start to understand they will not catch up ever" GVGISDEAD THIS^^ Understanding they'll never catch up is a good thing. Understanding that it doesn't matter, and all the reasons why, is even more important. All the OP's suggestion will do is exacerbate exactly what he's whinging about. You think people being held back by the (more than reasonable) cap is what's responsible for the gap? Hell no, that cap is the only thing keeping the people with massive free time from completely eclipsing EVERYONE else. As it stands now, the cap limits how fast they can widen the gap between the passives. It sets an upper limit on maximum skill gain separate from playtime alone, and this is a good thing, for EVERYONE, players and CCP alike. EVE has been openly and widely praised for just how well the nature of this skill system balances the issue found in all the other games: the level 80 automatically beating anyone lower. The praise is deserved, and it's those 80s ganking 10s that have the hardest time understanding why this system is so beautiful and works so well.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 537	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:54:00 - [9] - Quote Umm.. you will have to check the other forums, but CCP held a vote and the players decided that we would just keep the skill cap while we are waiting for the rollover - So give them some time, we got what we wanted for now. And like I said in another post. All it takes is maxing 6 skills to be competitive in PC. Thats like 5 million skill points. Proto Armor, Shields, Armor, Shield Extenders, Proto Weapon, Proto Damage Mod. So yes.. you can catch up. Stop complaining.
GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.30 17:57:00 - [10] - Quote It is said to be a "squad-based game" but I have played games with more relevant interaction between squads than this, it is said to be a tactical shooter but all you see is a dance of pellets between players and their guns, you can clearly appreciate the lack of squad interaction and the weak communication levels of the game. Players with higher SP can acquire better gear and can develop super soldiers that can obliterate a full squad of organized players, seen it happen in pubs, in PC and in FW. It is all about the SP. Even if Player A "specializes" and even if that player actually devotes more time to play the game than Player B, if Player A is not capable of obtaining a competitive ground in SP considering Player B devotes less time but has a competitive advantage over an inter-temporal-period then this creates disparities between players that are to be latter the source of a downward trend in the community population. If we consider the argument that " you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up.", new players realize that after a couple of games and they leave, what is this saying to the company? well that your retention ratio is too poor and in the mentality of a new player the following argument should come up " if a put some effort, dedicate time, find corporation maybe I can catch up... ooppps you hit the cap now you cannot advance up to a decent level where you can be competitive and just prepare to be smashed in pubs/PC/FW by prototype users with higher SP pools and therefore better dropsuits... do not forget that even if they have less "skills" they will obliterate you due to disparity in the levels". Thus, If disparity is impel by CCP then balancing issues should not even be considered by CCP since maintaining a disparity between players is the main goal of the company, up to a point where only players of similar levels remain and the barriers of entry for new players are just too high that it might create a black market for DUST 514 accounts for those still interested in playing and that is saying there is people willing to play this game when it has problems in balancing, bad graphics and mapping, "input x problem here" Quote: Hell no, that cap is the only thing keeping the people with massive free time from completely eclipsing EVERYONE else. In other words let the rich get richer and poor just poorer. Quote: As it stands now, the cap limits how fast they can widen the gap between the passives. Slash your argument. diminishing marginal returns principle . Quote: EVE has been openly and widely praised for just how well the nature of this skill system balances the issue found in all the other games: DUST 514 =/= EVE Different player base that have different culture embodied. For example if you try to apply the economic model of the U.S. into some country in Africa it will FAIL due to several reason such as human capital, purchasing power of the population, infrastructure, institutions and obviously culture. They are obviously not the same game even if its everything "under the same universe". Questions: 1. Is this a business or a non profit? Business 2. What happens when you customer base is decreasing at an increasing rate? Your sales decrease (AURUM/ MERC packs fall) 3. What happens when your sales decrease? Your nominal and real income falls. 4. What happens when your overall income falls? You cannot fund your operations or expansion opportunities 5. What do we do now? Divest a non profitable business unit

GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.30 18:11:00 - [11] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: Umm.. you will have to check the other forums, but CCP held a vote and the players decided that we would just keep the skill cap while we are waiting for the rollover - So give them some time, we got what we wanted for now. And like I said in another post. All it takes is maxing 6 skills to be competitive in PC. Thats like 5 million skill points. Proto Armor, Shields, Armor, Shield Extenders, Proto Weapon, Proto Damage Mod. So yes.. you can catch up. Stop complaining. The vote was a TEMPORAL solution to a promise that CCP made and failed to achieve just like the rest of the promises they have made, it has been 4 months since they promised a rollover. ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters @ Daedric Lothar = 0.71 KDR (300 kills) @Geirskoegul = 0.58 KDR (141 kills) @Judy Maat = 0.37 KDR (360 kills)
Rogue Saint Limited Liability 9	Posted - 2013.05.31 12:14:00 - [12] - Quote The problem is game modes, throwing low SP teams against high SP stompers is the reason for QQ. CCP needs to balance the pub matches to be SP driven so people don't roflstomped every match.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 589	Posted - 2013.05.31 12:19:00 - [13] - Quote GVGISDEAD wrote: ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters ... Stuff that will probably end up getting me banned for trying to name and shame I don't get time to play much. I'm not addicted to video games. I have this thing called a full time job and kids and a wife and responsibility. And I also don't care about KDR. I run cheap fits instead of protogear and have no problem suiciding into the enemy. Mostly beacuse I play games to vent stress rather then to stroke my Epeen. But I'm glad you found something in your life that you can be proud of.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 202	Posted - 2013.05.31 14:27:00 - [14] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: The problem is game modes, throwing low SP teams against high SP stompers is the reason for QQ. CCP needs to balance the pub matches to be SP driven so people don't roflstomped every match. Doing so is unnecessary and would perpetuate the myth that SP is more important than skill by lending the delusion credibility.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 383	Posted - 2013.05.31 14:30:00 - [15] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: GVGISDEAD wrote: ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters ... Stuff that will probably end up getting me banned for trying to name and shame I don't get time to play much. I'm not addicted to video games. I have this thing called a full time job and kids and a wife and responsibility. And I also don't care about KDR. I run cheap fits instead of protogear and have no problem suiciding into the enemy. Mostly beacuse I play games to vent stress rather then to stroke my Epeen. But I'm glad you found something in your life that you can be proud of. I've got a full time job, kid, girlfriend, and responsibilities, and I've still got more than a couple hundred kills. If you got 5 kills a game, you'd be at 300 kills in 60 games. The game's been out for ~20 weeks. You can't play more than 3 games a week?
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 202	Posted - 2013.05.31 14:30:00 - [16] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: GVGISDEAD wrote: ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters ... Stuff that will probably end up getting me banned for trying to name and shame I don't get time to play much. I'm not addicted to video games. I have this thing called a full time job and kids and a wife and responsibility. And I also don't care about KDR. I run cheap fits instead of protogear and have no problem suiciding into the enemy. Mostly beacuse I play games to vent stress rather then to stroke my Epeen. But I'm glad you found something in your life that you can be proud of. I wouldn't worry about it much, ad hom attacks, especially based on KB stats, are the best sign of someone who has no real argument. Not to mention that poor KDR is hardly anything new or surprising on someone that flies support the majority of the time.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 202	Posted - 2013.05.31 14:34:00 - [17] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Daedric Lothar wrote: GVGISDEAD wrote: ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters ... Stuff that will probably end up getting me banned for trying to name and shame I don't get time to play much. I'm not addicted to video games. I have this thing called a full time job and kids and a wife and responsibility. And I also don't care about KDR. I run cheap fits instead of protogear and have no problem suiciding into the enemy. Mostly beacuse I play games to vent stress rather then to stroke my Epeen. But I'm glad you found something in your life that you can be proud of. I've got a full time job, kid, girlfriend, and responsibilities, and I've still got more than a couple hundred kills. If you got 5 kills a game, you'd be at 300 kills in 60 games. The game's been out for ~20 weeks. You can't play more than 3 games a week? I'm single, and just from work alone generally can't get more than a few hours in per week these days. Dust also isn't the only game I play. There's also my earlier point about support; when you're busy keeping everyone else alive, your own kills aren't exactly high (never mind the matches with a bagillion assists and one kill; would be nice if they tracked assists as kills, like they do in EVE, since final blow, even if it did 1 damage, is all that matters right now.)
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 75	Posted - 2013.05.31 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote <----Begin WALL 'O' TEXT-----> You seem awfully upset that you are behind a bunch of guys that have been playing since closed beta, gotten good at playing and continue to do well because they employ teamwork. Teamwork is what you seem to fail to grasp as the key ingredient to this game. Its not about SP, well kinda, because if you function well with a group of 5 other people and work together as a group, you will succeed in wrecking proto suits no problem. You are being unfair to CCP, this game is a service not a subscription. After just finishing open beta and releasing Uprising they have continued to be hard at work getting the game working better on a daily basis and have been providing fixes for us to resolve issues with this build of the game. Temporary means that this too will change some time in the future, it does not mean RFN or tomorrow but somewhere down the road it will change. CCP currently is working on a 5 year roadmap for what they want Dust to be like. That means in 5 years they will have made all the changes they have set out to make. What does that mean for me and you? Things that we see as important such as an open market or a change to the SP earning system may be 1-5 years in the future. Be patient, they have stuff to fix and additions to be made and rushing them leads to the devs rushing something that isn't necessarily ready yet. We've got the next 10 years to enjoy this fantastic team building game, if you don't like it, don't take it out on the Devs. Take up running if you want to catch up to someone, it's a solo game and you don't need to rely on your squad/team mates to succeed. Take some time to consider what you are suggesting. You want the skill cap lifted because you want to catch up to some gamers who have 15+mil SP. In actuality it has taken a long time for them to get to their current SP, if you want to match them you will never be able to even without the SP Cap because as soon as it is lifted they will make plenty more SP because of it. On average an active player Caps their SP by the 2nd or third day after the new cap. They play all week long so....I think you can follow where I am going with this, the only factor that keeps players close together in SP is the CAP as it would not be hard for anyone who can CAP their SP in a day's time, like one of my friends, to make 7X the current SP Cap in a non-capped system. Don't try to catch up, you'll just get frustrated and quit, instead consider improving how you play and improving the group you play with. One of the deadliest weapons on the field is the Militia Assault Rifle. Why? Because they take no SP to operate, only player skill. They fit on any suit and when a squad focus fires on an enemy that enemy dies. If you are truly having trouble playing with a squad and being successful consider forming a corp and training your corpies to play together better. I spend a good deal of time in game working to successfully master tactics and working together with my squad mates. If you are unwilling to attempt something similar then you will fail. I do my job on the battlefield well if I have a high WP count, not a high KDR, although the KDR does help build WP, it is not what gets me to the top of the Killboard at the end of match screen, rather it is through assisting my squad and team mates through my logistics role that I succeed in doing this over and over again. The logi role is a support role that specializes in helping the team, no bonuses to damage output like the assault class has. This is a team game, if my team wins then so do I. I know you might think that you aren't getting anywhere because some guy in a proto suit walked up and shot you but that suit has the same base HP that the standard base level gear does. The reason the HP is high is due to 2 things, SP invested in Shield Upgrades and Armor Upgrades, and fitting the correct modules to the suit. An Advanced suit is more than likely to work just as well for any given role and has a much lower SP cost while you improve your supporting skills which make the proto suits the beasts that they are. They also cost significantly less, allowing a player with lower isk and sp to be competitive with their higher SP counterparts. See you on the battlefield. <-----End of WALL 'O' TEXT----->
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 383	Posted - 2013.05.31 15:15:00 - [19] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: Daedric Lothar wrote: GVGISDEAD wrote: ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters ... Stuff that will probably end up getting me banned for trying to name and shame I don't get time to play much. I'm not addicted to video games. I have this thing called a full time job and kids and a wife and responsibility. And I also don't care about KDR. I run cheap fits instead of protogear and have no problem suiciding into the enemy. Mostly beacuse I play games to vent stress rather then to stroke my Epeen. But I'm glad you found something in your life that you can be proud of. I've got a full time job, kid, girlfriend, and responsibilities, and I've still got more than a couple hundred kills. If you got 5 kills a game, you'd be at 300 kills in 60 games. The game's been out for ~20 weeks. You can't play more than 3 games a week? I'm single, and just from work alone generally can't get more than a few hours in per week these days. Dust also isn't the only game I play. There's also my earlier point about support; when you're busy keeping everyone else alive, your own kills aren't exactly high (never mind the matches with a bagillion assists and one kill; would be nice if they tracked assists as kills, like they do in EVE, since final blow, even if it did 1 damage, is all that matters right now.) And with that being said, why do people who don't play much feel entitled to the same benefits as the people who do? Be glad this game gives you passive SP so you are still improving your character even when you don't play, but don't try and complain because you don't have as much SP as a player like me who caps out every week.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 597	Posted - 2013.05.31 15:26:00 - [20] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: And with that being said, why do people who don't play much feel entitled to the same benefits as the people who do? Be glad this game gives you passive SP so you are still improving your character even when you don't play, but don't try and complain because you don't have as much SP as a player like me who caps out every week. I'm not complaining, I rarely play and I already have all the stuff I need to be competitive if you specialize. Like I said, 5-6M is competitive.

StubbyDucky KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 35	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:28:00 - [21] - Quote TL;DR Version - Reset everyone to 8 million SP - Make this a passive SP game only, no active SP's - Take away all AUR items make everything ISK only - Turn this into a subscription based game
TcuBe3 THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo 14	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:34:00 - [22] - Quote I'm not going to send out a wall of text but I think if I could para phrase all of this it would be. 1. Allow a higher SP cap for lower end users to keep a healthy level of rewards going. 2. Players that are just starting out have a very difficult time finding the motivation to build SP. 3. It is demoralizing when players with 10 million SP are playing against players with 1.5 million SP like myself. 4. Most of the players in this game are over the age of 18, meaning we have real world obligations which keep us from being able to catch up to senior players. This game IS NOT EVE. I know that is hard for some to swallow but that is the truth. We aren't asking this game to be unfair or noob friendly but let's make this game a play to win game not a sit on **** ton of sp game. Also please stop the arbitrary references to EVE key binds as many of us are to ignorant to have any frame of reference to what that actually means.
GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:35:00 - [23] - Quote Warning: Metastasis below All of us picture this game to be at least decent after some time period. The SP cap mainly keeps the SP of some top gamers at a margin but instead it is killing the incoming players by setting a huge barrier of entry, we can say monopolistic behavior is being used such that a group of player is at a point where another group of players cannot be and letGÇÖs face it once this group of players get out from the academy it is very likely they will understand the fact they wonGÇÖt be able to compete very well even with a specialized role. Yes, I want to be competitive either supporting or slaying but we have consider that this GÇ£beastGÇ¥ (it is a beast because it involves all sorts of things) is killing potential players @ Draco Cerberus In other games you can see the top players with all sorts of equipment and skill points accrued towards certain roles, I might sound repetitive but the issue is that you cannot advance at a rate that suits you better and you have no choice. For example in GÇ£ROGÇ¥(Ragnarok Online) it might take you up years to be competitive and lots of teamwork to get gear, level up and play in competitions. There is no cap to the amount of experience people can get per day which makes players have the following mentality GÇ£this guys have been playing here for so long, are all decked up with gear that drops at 0.01% but I know I will get there, therefore I will have fun as I progress in the pathGÇ¥. I believe CCPGÇÖs vision for the game is to make people picture DUST 514 as good experience to all kinds of players, so that players can learn from their mistakes in their path to building a character they want, worry less about the dull mechanic of grinding experience points and start putting more emphasis on earning ISK, getting some contracts, buying and selling things on the market, fighting for regions across systems, interacting with the story line of the EVE universe or even creating drama between corporate entities. Rogue Saint wrote: The problem is game modes, throwing low SP teams against high SP stompers is the reason for QQ. CCP needs to balance the pub matches to be SP driven so people don't roflstomped every match. The problem with using SP through matchmaking is that it actually serves as a segregation tool against the already small player base. If we assume a fixed SP matchmaking at some point player will be thrown by the system into high tier matches which can result in those players being overwhelmed by the difference in the level of SP, skills and gear. If we assume a progressive matchmaking it will only result in a continuous segregation by putting the same people against the same people over and over and overGÇª people get bored easily especially FPS players This is a business and therefore they want to make a profit but how can you make a profit if you player base is declining at an increasing rate and how do you expect to keep running such business if you are in "reds". Geirskoegul wrote: I wouldn't worry about it much, ad hom attacks, especially based on KB stats, are the best sign of someone who has no real argument. Not to mention that poor KDR is hardly anything new or surprising on someone that flies support the majority of the time. Everything a player does in the battlefield is reflected on war points, even if a player is running full support of the team it should have a great amount of war points which some people lack (to avoid mentioning some). In other words it is the people that do not play regularly that are dragging the progression of the majority. Just proving my point that some people argue about things havenGÇÖt experience, which itGÇÖs like talking about Schr+¦dinger equation in quantum mechanics or the effect of a change in nominal income in the production function of a firm Halador Osiris wrote: And with that being said, why do people who don't play much feel entitled to the same benefits as the people who do? Be glad this game gives you passive SP so you are still improving your character even when you don't play, but don't try and complain because you don't have as much SP as a player like me who caps out every week. Especially if people havenGÇÖt been out of the GÇ£academyGÇ¥ pamper
GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:36:00 - [24] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: I'm not going to send out a wall of text but I think if I could para phrase all of this it would be. 1. Allow a higher SP cap for lower end users to keep a healthy level of rewards going. 2. Players that are just starting out have a very difficult time finding the motivation to build SP. 3. It is demoralizing when players with 10 million SP are playing against players with 1.5 million SP like myself. 4. Most of the players in this game are over the age of 18, meaning we have real world obligations which keep us from being able to catch up to senior players. This game IS NOT EVE. I know that is hard for some to swallow but that is the truth. We aren't asking this game to be unfair or noob friendly but let's make this game a play to win game not a sit on **** ton of sp game. Also please stop the arbitrary references to EVE key binds as many of us are to ignorant to have any frame of reference to what that actually means. THIS ^
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 599	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:42:00 - [25] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: I'm not going to send out a wall of text but I think if I could para phrase all of this it would be. 1. Allow a higher SP cap for lower end users to keep a healthy level of rewards going. 2. Players that are just starting out have a very difficult time finding the motivation to build SP. 3. It is demoralizing when players with 10 million SP are playing against players with 1.5 million SP like myself. 4. Most of the players in this game are over the age of 18, meaning we have real world obligations which keep us from being able to catch up to senior players. It doesn't matter if they have 10 million SP or 100 Million SP. There is only so much you can do with it. Once you get to like 5 million SP you are square. I "could" see players getting SP boost to that 5 Mill mark. I could also see extending the Academy up to like 4 million SP or having matches where less geared players could compete. But this "idea" that these super high SP players are gods and will stomp you is a myth. You don't have to catch up. That is the same as in EVE.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 203	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:44:00 - [26] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: Daedric Lothar wrote: GVGISDEAD wrote: ---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters ... Stuff that will probably end up getting me banned for trying to name and shame I don't get time to play much. I'm not addicted to video games. I have this thing called a full time job and kids and a wife and responsibility. And I also don't care about KDR. I run cheap fits instead of protogear and have no problem suiciding into the enemy. Mostly beacuse I play games to vent stress rather then to stroke my Epeen. But I'm glad you found something in your life that you can be proud of. I've got a full time job, kid, girlfriend, and responsibilities, and I've still got more than a couple hundred kills. If you got 5 kills a game, you'd be at 300 kills in 60 games. The game's been out for ~20 weeks. You can't play more than 3 games a week? I'm single, and just from work alone generally can't get more than a few hours in per week these days. Dust also isn't the only game I play. There's also my earlier point about support; when you're busy keeping everyone else alive, your own kills aren't exactly high (never mind the matches with a bagillion assists and one kill; would be nice if they tracked assists as kills, like they do in EVE, since final blow, even if it did 1 damage, is all that matters right now.) And with that being said, why do people who don't play much feel entitled to the same benefits as the people who do? Be glad this game gives you passive SP so you are still improving your character even when you don't play, but don't try and complain because you don't have as much SP as a player like me who caps out every week. Have you even read the thread? I've been one of the most adamant, in this and others, about NOT lifting the cap, and the FACT that SP just isn't that important in the face of teamwork and skill. My point was that pointing to total kills and KDR as if those grant or remove credibility is about as legitimate as saying their gender matters.
GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:54:00 - [27] - Quote Even they can also accrue the sp cap based on the person with the highest SP pool, so that if you have Player "A" per se with 20 m SP and a Player "B" who is beginning and has only 1 m of SP. The cap for Player "B" is 19 m and the cap for Player "A" is only increasing by 1% after of his total SP (200,000 SP) Daedric Lothar wrote: It doesn't matter if they have 10 million SP or 100 Million SP. There is only so much you can do with it. Once you get to like 5 million SP you are square. I "could" see players getting SP boost to that 5 Mill mark. I could also see extending the Academy up to like 4 million SP or having matches where less geared players could compete. But this "idea" that these super high SP players are gods and will stomp you is a myth. You don't have to catch up. That is the same as in EVE. No, the academy is just segregation of players what is this ** Germany 2.0. Geirskoegul wrote: Have you even read the thread? I've been one of the most adamant, in this and others, about NOT lifting the cap, and the FACT that SP just isn't that important in the face of teamwork and skill. My point was that pointing to total kills and KDR as if those grant or remove credibility is about as legitimate as saying their gender matters. Have you even played the game or got out from GÇ£Dust AcademyGÇ¥ ? Since your warpoints (which reflect support) can be obtained in less than a couple hours. It is like asking somebody that flips burgers about the domestic national defense policy and the protocol against regimes and other sovereign nations Quote:** Just proving my point that some people argue about things havenGÇÖt experience, which itGÇÖs like talking about Schr+¦dinger equation in quantum mechanics or the effect of a change in nominal income in the production function of a firm
TcuBe3 THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo 14	Posted - 2013.05.31 16:55:00 - [28] - Quote I agree that higher sp players are not gods, but this game rewards me more for putting the game down and building passive SP than it rewards me for actually playing the game. That is why I say this game isn't play to win, it is sit on wait to build sp to win. Why isn't the weekly active booster at least double what I could earn with passive sp gain?
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 203	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:06:00 - [29] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: I agree that higher sp players are not gods, but this game rewards me more for putting the game down and building passive SP than it rewards me for actually playing the game. That is why I say this game isn't play to win, it is sit on wait to build sp to win. Why isn't the weekly active booster at least double what I could earn with passive sp gain? 1) Your argument is predicated on the idea that SP matters more than skill and experience, along with isk. None of the things that really matter are capped, and you can't gain any of them while logged out. 2) Passive SP over time is less than the active SP cap for the same time period. In short, you're welcome to sit and passively gain SP by not playing, but you won't actually be gaining much, since you won't have the isk to buy any of the gear it goes to, and you won't gain any of the skill and experience that actually playing gets you.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 602	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:09:00 - [30] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: 1) Your argument is predicated on the idea that SP matters more than skill and experience, along with isk. None of the things that really matter are capped, and you can't gain any of them while logged out. Well, to be fully truthful and honest though. A player who gets 10,000 WP and graduates the academy with like 1M skill points probably just has a full set of STD gear. That player is going to die horribly MOST of the time when he comes across the 1.4k HP Protologi. I'm not going to argue that anything is fair with a < 5M SP character vs a > 5M SP character.

Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 203	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:23:00 - [31] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: 1) Your argument is predicated on the idea that SP matters more than skill and experience, along with isk. None of the things that really matter are capped, and you can't gain any of them while logged out. Well, to be fully truthful and honest though. A player who gets 10,000 WP and graduates the academy with like 1M skill points probably just has a full set of STD gear. That player is going to die horribly MOST of the time when he comes across the 1.4k HP Protologi. I'm not going to argue that anything is fair with a < 5M SP character vs a > 5M SP character. I pretty much run BPOs exclusively, and honestly, yes, it's harder, but it's about teamwork and playing better. That makes all the difference. Now for the vast majority, especially very early on, I could see that making a bigger difference, especially since so many seem to think this is Halo or Call of Duty and try to lonewolf it, thinking that "teamwork" just means calling out what you see (at most) instead of actually working as a team. The only times i've run into trouble have been against VERY well-built full-proto its on vehicles. I managed to steal an LAV the other day that could tank a railgun installation and two guys with militia AV, but that was a very clear example of someone spec'd completely into maxing that out. The only real issue there is that they don't enforce skill requirements for use like in EVE, so he could call in six of those and brand new players could then climb in (like I did after killing him and hacking the LAV; I have no points in vehicles, focusing almost exclusively on core skills like HP, PG, and CPU).
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:50:00 - [32] - Quote Why not just lift or reduce the skill point cap for people below a certain amount of sp? New players could more easily get to a competitive level of sp and the vets are still held back from gaining too much sp.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 206	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:53:00 - [33] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Why not just lift or reduce the skill point cap for people below a certain amount of sp? New players could more easily get to a competitive level of sp and the vets are still held back from gaining too much sp. Nothing wrong with that, so long as it kicks in once they hit ~4-5m SP total. Eve does basically the same, with doubled training speed until you hit 1.6m SP, and boxed copies of the game even come with an implant that offers pretty big bonuses (relatively) that only works for your first 30 days (account time, not play time).
bacon blaster BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 39	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:53:00 - [34] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up. Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.) This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless. Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Evidently, you've yet to run all basic gear against an all proto gear, being on the side of basic. Player skill is real nice and all, but when there is a huge disparity between the levels of gear, player skill matters less.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1041	Posted - 2013.05.31 17:58:00 - [35] - Quote GVGISDEAD wrote: Outcome and Request [sic] -Decrease the gap between players Before evaluating the rest of the OP I would like this contention explained in detail. How will the removal of the SP cap lead to newer or more casual players being able to catch up to longer term or more "hardcore" players? As far as I am able to determine it would have exactly the opposite effect only widening the gap between players as the "hardcore" will still be able to grind more, just now with greater effects. And the Vets will be able to win just as often, only now with greater rewards. As far as I can tell the only group this might help close the gap for would be the newly incoming "hardcore" players having a shot a grinding their way past the more casual Vets. Please elaborate on any flaws you see in my conclusions as well as how your proposal creates the results you ascribe to it. Cheers, Cross
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 206	Posted - 2013.05.31 18:01:00 - [36] - Quote bacon blaster wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up. Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.) This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless. Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Evidently, you've yet to run all basic gear against an all proto gear, being on the side of basic. Player skill is real nice and all, but when there is a huge disparity between the levels of gear, player skill matters less. If they're fit the same maybe, not if they're rolling appropriate counters. Even then, teamwork and skill still win out. I've yet to have proto infantry that gives me significantly more trouble. In fact, as i pointed out earlier, the only trouble i've seen is militia AV against fully proto-fit vehicles, and that can be solved by simply bringing out more AV; one person SHOULDN'T be able to solo a tank.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1041	Posted - 2013.05.31 18:05:00 - [37] - Quote bacon blaster wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up. Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.) This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless. Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Evidently, you've yet to run all basic gear against an all proto gear, being on the side of basic. Player skill is real nice and all, but when there is a huge disparity between the levels of gear, player skill matters less. Having run free fits during the "gameshow" event against characters with max skills and best gear I can fully attest to two things here. First that yes all proto (or better) verses totally basic does reduce the required player skill for victory (in favor of the one with the better gear). Secondly player skill still trumps gear by a fair margin. I don't possess the best gun game out there, but I was able to go up against 4-5 of those best geared characters on more than one occasion and kill all of them or all but one. If I as a guy who isn't a l33t FPSer can use basic fits while outnumbered by proto+ and prevail more often than not it speaks strongly to the value of player skill being more important than character gear. (I've also had guys in lower meta fits chew me up and keep on rolling while I was using full proto). Cheers, Cross PS ~ Even in the monolith that is EVE there are ways for newer players to get temporary increases to their SP gain as a boost when they first enter the game, it's not enough to give them the SP of a 5 year Vet but it does help and I think such a feature would be well suited to Dust also.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1764	Posted - 2013.05.31 18:35:00 - [38] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: Umm.. you will have to check the other forums, but CCP held a vote and the players decided that we would just keep the skill cap while we are waiting for the rollover - So give them some time, we got what we wanted for now. [Edit]: This post was edited because I should Learn 2 Read.. LOL And like I said in another post. All it takes is maxing 6 skills to be competitive in PC. Thats like 5 million skill points. Proto Armor, Shields, Armor, Shield Extenders, Proto Weapon, Proto Damage Mod. So yes.. you can catch up. Stop complaining. Exactly. This is what we all voted for.
GVGISDEAD Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.31 23:05:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Dear players, Thank you for voting on the following options on the Skill Point system. We carefully followed the discussion and the voting process, and in the upcoming days we will be deploying the following system to the server: - Weekly skill point cap of 190.400 SP (without boosters) from fighting in battles - Players who have maxed out their cap will receive 1 SP per warpoint up to a limit of 1.000 SP(without boosters) per each battle We chose to go with Option #2 (limiting skill points earned to a maximum of 1.000 SP per battle after the cap has been hit) as it was both the safer and the most popular option among the players. We will monitor the situation after the changes are live and look forward to receiving feedback from you. Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing. Thank you once again for your participation and feedback! We will see you on the battlefield. Sometimes I just wonder on the intellect of people, when they can't even go through a simple OP. We all voted for a TEMPORAL FIX that has been delayed already for 4 months, but what can we expect from CCP when : Maken Tosch wrote: This rollover cap thing is nice to have for CCP to implement, but consider the problems CCP has to deal with at the moment. PC Lag/framerates Bugged comms Matchmaking needs work Nova knives not dealing damage when they were suppose to Hit detection a pain the ass for many of us Tactical Assault Rifles being the FOTM for modded controller users Getting stuck on the edge of a building Heavies needing work Petitions being processed to address the whole negative-ISK problem Petitions being processed until the last moment of the 31st for skill respecs I can go on. I do not know if we can go on when you get stuck in a map every 2 meters due to some horrible map design
Dale Templar Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 57	Posted - 2013.06.02 05:43:00 - [40] - Quote Right, explain this **** because I wasn't around at the time. What the hell is a weekly skill point rollover?



Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.