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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
203
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Posted - 2013.05.31 17:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: 1) Your argument is predicated on the idea that SP matters more than skill and experience, along with isk. None of the things that really matter are capped, and you can't gain any of them while logged out.
Well, to be fully truthful and honest though. A player who gets 10,000 WP and graduates the academy with like 1M skill points probably just has a full set of STD gear. That player is going to die horribly MOST of the time when he comes across the 1.4k HP Protologi. I'm not going to argue that anything is fair with a < 5M SP character vs a > 5M SP character.
I pretty much run BPOs exclusively, and honestly, yes, it's harder, but it's about teamwork and playing better. That makes all the difference. Now for the vast majority, especially very early on, I could see that making a bigger difference, especially since so many seem to think this is Halo or Call of Duty and try to lonewolf it, thinking that "teamwork" just means calling out what you see (at most) instead of actually working as a team.
The only times i've run into trouble have been against VERY well-built full-proto its on vehicles. I managed to steal an LAV the other day that could tank a railgun installation and two guys with militia AV, but that was a very clear example of someone spec'd completely into maxing that out. The only real issue there is that they don't enforce skill requirements for use like in EVE, so he could call in six of those and brand new players could then climb in (like I did after killing him and hacking the LAV; I have no points in vehicles, focusing almost exclusively on core skills like HP, PG, and CPU). |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.05.31 17:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why not just lift or reduce the skill point cap for people below a certain amount of sp? New players could more easily get to a competitive level of sp and the vets are still held back from gaining too much sp. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
206
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Posted - 2013.05.31 17:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Why not just lift or reduce the skill point cap for people below a certain amount of sp? New players could more easily get to a competitive level of sp and the vets are still held back from gaining too much sp.
Nothing wrong with that, so long as it kicks in once they hit ~4-5m SP total. Eve does basically the same, with doubled training speed until you hit 1.6m SP, and boxed copies of the game even come with an implant that offers pretty big bonuses (relatively) that only works for your first 30 days (account time, not play time). |
bacon blaster
BIG BAD W0LVES
Eternal Syndicate
39
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Posted - 2013.05.31 17:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up.
Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.)
This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless.
Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear).
Evidently, you've yet to run all basic gear against an all proto gear, being on the side of basic. Player skill is real nice and all, but when there is a huge disparity between the levels of gear, player skill matters less. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1041
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Posted - 2013.05.31 17:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
GVGISDEAD wrote:
Outcome and Request
[sic]
-Decrease the gap between players
Before evaluating the rest of the OP I would like this contention explained in detail.
How will the removal of the SP cap lead to newer or more casual players being able to catch up to longer term or more "hardcore" players?
As far as I am able to determine it would have exactly the opposite effect only widening the gap between players as the "hardcore" will still be able to grind more, just now with greater effects. And the Vets will be able to win just as often, only now with greater rewards.
As far as I can tell the only group this might help close the gap for would be the newly incoming "hardcore" players having a shot a grinding their way past the more casual Vets.
Please elaborate on any flaws you see in my conclusions as well as how your proposal creates the results you ascribe to it.
Cheers,
Cross
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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
206
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Posted - 2013.05.31 18:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
bacon blaster wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up.
Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.)
This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless.
Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Evidently, you've yet to run all basic gear against an all proto gear, being on the side of basic. Player skill is real nice and all, but when there is a huge disparity between the levels of gear, player skill matters less.
If they're fit the same maybe, not if they're rolling appropriate counters. Even then, teamwork and skill still win out. I've yet to have proto infantry that gives me significantly more trouble. In fact, as i pointed out earlier, the only trouble i've seen is militia AV against fully proto-fit vehicles, and that can be solved by simply bringing out more AV; one person SHOULDN'T be able to solo a tank. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1041
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 18:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
bacon blaster wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Easy: you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up.
Thankfully, the skill and equipment systems work beautifully to level the playing field: a two month old player can match a ten year vet IN ONE THING. The fit your bring to the fight is the only thing your skills affect, and so only those relevant skills come into play. The older player can do more things, but still only one at a time, just like you. You're on equal footing if you choose to specialize (like you should; this is a squad-based game, talk to your mates, find what you all like, and build a TEAM, not a clump of jack-of-all/master-of-nones.)
This is simply how it works, and there's nothing you can (let alone should) do to "fix" this wonderfully functional dynamic without breaking everything and making it all pointless.
Thankfully, this is an FPS, and so your SP and how fancy your gear is matters even less than it doea in EVE; YOUR skill matters far more than anything else (just ask the protofits I spank with militia gear). Evidently, you've yet to run all basic gear against an all proto gear, being on the side of basic. Player skill is real nice and all, but when there is a huge disparity between the levels of gear, player skill matters less.
Having run free fits during the "gameshow" event against characters with max skills and best gear I can fully attest to two things here.
First that yes all proto (or better) verses totally basic does reduce the required player skill for victory (in favor of the one with the better gear).
Secondly player skill still trumps gear by a fair margin. I don't possess the best gun game out there, but I was able to go up against 4-5 of those best geared characters on more than one occasion and kill all of them or all but one.
If I as a guy who isn't a l33t FPSer can use basic fits while outnumbered by proto+ and prevail more often than not it speaks strongly to the value of player skill being more important than character gear. (I've also had guys in lower meta fits chew me up and keep on rolling while I was using full proto).
Cheers,
Cross
PS ~ Even in the monolith that is EVE there are ways for newer players to get temporary increases to their SP gain as a boost when they first enter the game, it's not enough to give them the SP of a 5 year Vet but it does help and I think such a feature would be well suited to Dust also. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
1764
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Posted - 2013.05.31 18:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Umm.. you will have to check the other forums, but CCP held a vote and the players decided that we would just keep the skill cap while we are waiting for the rollover - So give them some time, we got what we wanted for now.
[Edit]: This post was edited because I should Learn 2 Read.. LOL
And like I said in another post. All it takes is maxing 6 skills to be competitive in PC. Thats like 5 million skill points.
Proto Armor, Shields, Armor, Shield Extenders, Proto Weapon, Proto Damage Mod.
So yes.. you can catch up.
Stop complaining.
Exactly. This is what we all voted for. |
GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.05.31 23:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:
Dear players,
Thank you for voting on the following options on the Skill Point system. We carefully followed the discussion and the voting process, and in the upcoming days we will be deploying the following system to the server:
- Weekly skill point cap of 190.400 SP (without boosters) from fighting in battles
- Players who have maxed out their cap will receive 1 SP per warpoint up to a limit of 1.000 SP(without boosters) per each battle
We chose to go with Option #2 (limiting skill points earned to a maximum of 1.000 SP per battle after the cap has been hit) as it was both the safer and the most popular option among the players. We will monitor the situation after the changes are live and look forward to receiving feedback from you. Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing.
Thank you once again for your participation and feedback!
We will see you on the battlefield.
Sometimes I just wonder on the intellect of people, when they can't even go through a simple OP. We all voted for a TEMPORAL FIX that has been delayed already for 4 months, but what can we expect from CCP when :
Maken Tosch wrote:This rollover cap thing is nice to have for CCP to implement, but consider the problems CCP has to deal with at the moment.
PC Lag/framerates
Bugged comms
Matchmaking needs work
Nova knives not dealing damage when they were suppose to
Hit detection a pain the ass for many of us
Tactical Assault Rifles being the FOTM for modded controller users
Getting stuck on the edge of a building
Heavies needing work
Petitions being processed to address the whole negative-ISK problem
Petitions being processed until the last moment of the 31st for skill respecs
I can go on.
I do not know if we can go on when you get stuck in a map every 2 meters due to some horrible map design
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Dale Templar
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
57
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Posted - 2013.06.02 05:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Right, explain this **** because I wasn't around at the time.
What the hell is a weekly skill point rollover? |
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