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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.30 16:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
In my opinion CCP Frame, CCP Cmdr Wang and CCP Eterne have failed to deliver, people can read the ORIGINAL POST HERE
Quote:Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing.
Posted: 2013.01.29 06:18 Posted: 2013.01.29 06:18 Posted: 2013.01.29 06:18
THANK YOU CCP.
Issue: There is no way a player who is behind the rest of the so called GÇ£hardcore playersGÇ¥ will be able to catch up in this game, therefore until such SP cap is removed there is no way a person with a life can catch up with other players by just earning 1,500 SP after you hit the cap. All things equal it will require a player to earn 1,142,400 SP with boosters and we must consider an extra million every 9.3 days for every 667 games earning 1,500 SP consistently. Each game takes around 15~25 minutes considering the queue, loading time to waiting room, loading time to the map, the game, loading time out of the game to the scoreboard, loading time to merc quarters and repeat. Assuming there is no squads since it will take you time to wait for people but still earn 1,500 SP each game, assuming you have an infinite amount of stock and that you can eat/poop/sleep/sex/feed your pet/facebook/study/work/hang out you can pull 72 games per day and thus it will take you 9.3 days to earn 1 million SP (222 hours of gameplay).
View: GAMERS GO R.I.P.
-South Korean 33-year Old Man Plays for 650 Hours -40 Hours of Diablo III Proves Fatal -Chris frequently participated in 12-hour long Halo sessions without breaks and during one fated campaign -Starcraft Addict Plays for 50 Hours
If you ever catch up you might be near to death such as those guys who died while playing videogames nonstop for a couple of days and that is saying you do not die.
Arguments The classic excuse of get in a squad is irrelevant as squads dissipate and makes an opportunity cost of SP, I believe CCP should explain us how are we supposed to catch up if somebody is willing to dedicate lets say 1 more hour to the game than other person per week then that person should have a higher amount of SP logically.
The next argument is to avoid the spread between players being higher SP wise through the weekly cap, this latter argument only exhibits an upward trend in the gap and the gap will widening at an increasing rate, assuming player with high SP continue with their behavior and that players on the bottom start to understand they will not catch up ever. If the cap was to be lifted it will exhibit the diminishing marginal returns principle, at the first the gap will continue as it is right now then it will accelerate just to reach a maximum and the gap will start decreasing as top SP players start feeling comfortable with a constant amount of SP earned through game play and newer players start putting more efforts into earning more SP since there will be no cap to restraint their efforts for playing the game, thus it will attract more players and potential customers.
Outcome and Request
Lifting the cap can result in the following:
-Increment of the player count -Higher player retention rates -Higher sales of boosters and aurum gear -Higher sales of AURUM packages in playstation store -Decrease the gap between players -Higher Diversity in dropsuits and builds -Higher ISK inflows and outflows -A Growing closed economy
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.30 17:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
It is said to be a "squad-based game" but I have played games with more relevant interaction between squads than this, it is said to be a tactical shooter but all you see is a dance of pellets between players and their guns, you can clearly appreciate the lack of squad interaction and the weak communication levels of the game. Players with higher SP can acquire better gear and can develop super soldiers that can obliterate a full squad of organized players, seen it happen in pubs, in PC and in FW. It is all about the SP.
Even if Player A "specializes" and even if that player actually devotes more time to play the game than Player B, if Player A is not capable of obtaining a competitive ground in SP considering Player B devotes less time but has a competitive advantage over an inter-temporal-period then this creates disparities between players that are to be latter the source of a downward trend in the community population.
If we consider the argument that " you don't catch up. Just as new players to EVE will never catch up.", new players realize that after a couple of games and they leave, what is this saying to the company? well that your retention ratio is too poor and in the mentality of a new player the following argument should come up " if a put some effort, dedicate time, find corporation maybe I can catch up... ooppps you hit the cap now you cannot advance up to a decent level where you can be competitive and just prepare to be smashed in pubs/PC/FW by prototype users with higher SP pools and therefore better dropsuits... do not forget that even if they have less "skills" they will obliterate you due to disparity in the levels".
Thus, If disparity is impel by CCP then balancing issues should not even be considered by CCP since maintaining a disparity between players is the main goal of the company, up to a point where only players of similar levels remain and the barriers of entry for new players are just too high that it might create a black market for DUST 514 accounts for those still interested in playing and that is saying there is people willing to play this game when it has problems in balancing, bad graphics and mapping, "input x problem here"
Quote: Hell no, that cap is the only thing keeping the people with massive free time from completely eclipsing EVERYONE else.
In other words let the rich get richer and poor just poorer.
Quote: As it stands now, the cap limits how fast they can widen the gap between the passives.
Slash your argument. diminishing marginal returns principle .
Quote: EVE has been openly and widely praised for just how well the nature of this skill system balances the issue found in all the other games: DUST 514 =/= EVE
Different player base that have different culture embodied.
For example if you try to apply the economic model of the U.S. into some country in Africa it will FAIL due to several reason such as human capital, purchasing power of the population, infrastructure, institutions and obviously culture.
They are obviously not the same game even if its everything "under the same universe".
Questions: 1. Is this a business or a non profit? Business
2. What happens when you customer base is decreasing at an increasing rate? Your sales decrease (AURUM/ MERC packs fall)
3. What happens when your sales decrease? Your nominal and real income falls.
4. What happens when your overall income falls? You cannot fund your operations or expansion opportunities
5. What do we do now? Divest a non profitable business unit
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.30 18:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Umm.. you will have to check the other forums, but CCP held a vote and the players decided that we would just keep the skill cap while we are waiting for the rollover - So give them some time, we got what we wanted for now.
And like I said in another post. All it takes is maxing 6 skills to be competitive in PC. Thats like 5 million skill points.
Proto Armor, Shields, Armor, Shield Extenders, Proto Weapon, Proto Damage Mod.
So yes.. you can catch up.
Stop complaining.
The vote was a TEMPORAL solution to a promise that CCP made and failed to achieve just like the rest of the promises they have made, it has been 4 months since they promised a rollover.
---------------------SIDEBAR-------------------------- Hopefully those are just your alts characters @ Daedric Lothar = 0.71 KDR (300 kills) @Geirskoegul = 0.58 KDR (141 kills) @Judy Maat = 0.37 KDR (360 kills)
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.05.31 16:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Warning: Metastasis below
All of us picture this game to be at least decent after some time period.
The SP cap mainly keeps the SP of some top gamers at a margin but instead it is killing the incoming players by setting a huge barrier of entry, we can say monopolistic behavior is being used such that a group of player is at a point where another group of players cannot be and letGÇÖs face it once this group of players get out from the academy it is very likely they will understand the fact they wonGÇÖt be able to compete very well even with a specialized role.
Yes, I want to be competitive either supporting or slaying but we have consider that this GÇ£beastGÇ¥ (it is a beast because it involves all sorts of things) is killing potential players
@ Draco Cerberus
In other games you can see the top players with all sorts of equipment and skill points accrued towards certain roles, I might sound repetitive but the issue is that you cannot advance at a rate that suits you better and you have no choice.
For example in GÇ£ROGÇ¥(Ragnarok Online) it might take you up years to be competitive and lots of teamwork to get gear, level up and play in competitions. There is no cap to the amount of experience people can get per day which makes players have the following mentality GÇ£this guys have been playing here for so long, are all decked up with gear that drops at 0.01% but I know I will get there, therefore I will have fun as I progress in the pathGÇ¥.
I believe CCPGÇÖs vision for the game is to make people picture DUST 514 as good experience to all kinds of players, so that players can learn from their mistakes in their path to building a character they want, worry less about the dull mechanic of grinding experience points and start putting more emphasis on earning ISK, getting some contracts, buying and selling things on the market, fighting for regions across systems, interacting with the story line of the EVE universe or even creating drama between corporate entities.
Rogue Saint wrote:The problem is game modes, throwing low SP teams against high SP stompers is the reason for QQ. CCP needs to balance the pub matches to be SP driven so people don't roflstomped every match. The problem with using SP through matchmaking is that it actually serves as a segregation tool against the already small player base. If we assume a fixed SP matchmaking at some point player will be thrown by the system into high tier matches which can result in those players being overwhelmed by the difference in the level of SP, skills and gear. If we assume a progressive matchmaking it will only result in a continuous segregation by putting the same people against the same people over and over and overGǪ people get bored easily especially FPS players
This is a business and therefore they want to make a profit but how can you make a profit if you player base is declining at an increasing rate and how do you expect to keep running such business if you are in "reds".
Geirskoegul wrote:I wouldn't worry about it much, ad hom attacks, especially based on KB stats, are the best sign of someone who has no real argument. Not to mention that poor KDR is hardly anything new or surprising on someone that flies support the majority of the time.
Everything a player does in the battlefield is reflected on war points, even if a player is running full support of the team it should have a great amount of war points which some people lack (to avoid mentioning some). In other words it is the people that do not play regularly that are dragging the progression of the majority. Just proving my point that some people argue about things havenGÇÖt experience, which itGÇÖs like talking about Schr+¦dinger equation in quantum mechanics or the effect of a change in nominal income in the production function of a firm
Halador Osiris wrote:And with that being said, why do people who don't play much feel entitled to the same benefits as the people who do? Be glad this game gives you passive SP so you are still improving your character even when you don't play, but don't try and complain because you don't have as much SP as a player like me who caps out every week.
Especially if people havenGÇÖt been out of the GÇ£academyGÇ¥ pamper
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.05.31 16:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:I'm not going to send out a wall of text but I think if I could para phrase all of this it would be.
1. Allow a higher SP cap for lower end users to keep a healthy level of rewards going.
2. Players that are just starting out have a very difficult time finding the motivation to build SP.
3. It is demoralizing when players with 10 million SP are playing against players with 1.5 million SP like myself.
4. Most of the players in this game are over the age of 18, meaning we have real world obligations which keep us from being able to catch up to senior players.
This game IS NOT EVE. I know that is hard for some to swallow but that is the truth. We aren't asking this game to be unfair or noob friendly but let's make this game a play to win game not a sit on **** ton of sp game. Also please stop the arbitrary references to EVE key binds as many of us are to ignorant to have any frame of reference to what that actually means.
THIS ^ |
GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.05.31 16:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Even they can also accrue the sp cap based on the person with the highest SP pool, so that if you have Player "A" per se with 20 m SP and a Player "B" who is beginning and has only 1 m of SP.
The cap for Player "B" is 19 m and the cap for Player "A" is only increasing by 1% after of his total SP (200,000 SP)
Daedric Lothar wrote: It doesn't matter if they have 10 million SP or 100 Million SP. There is only so much you can do with it. Once you get to like 5 million SP you are square. I "could" see players getting SP boost to that 5 Mill mark. I could also see extending the Academy up to like 4 million SP or having matches where less geared players could compete. But this "idea" that these super high SP players are gods and will stomp you is a myth. You don't have to catch up. That is the same as in EVE.
No, the academy is just segregation of players what is this **** Germany 2.0.
Geirskoegul wrote: Have you even read the thread? I've been one of the most adamant, in this and others, about NOT lifting the cap, and the FACT that SP just isn't that important in the face of teamwork and skill. My point was that pointing to total kills and KDR as if those grant or remove credibility is about as legitimate as saying their gender matters.
Have you even played the game or got out from GÇ£Dust AcademyGÇ¥ ? Since your warpoints (which reflect support) can be obtained in less than a couple hours.
It is like asking somebody that flips burgers about the domestic national defense policy and the protocol against regimes and other sovereign nations
Quote: Just proving my point that some people argue about things havenGÇÖt experience, which itGÇÖs like talking about Schr+¦dinger equation in quantum mechanics or the effect of a change in nominal income in the production function of a firm
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GVGISDEAD
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.05.31 23:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:
Dear players,
Thank you for voting on the following options on the Skill Point system. We carefully followed the discussion and the voting process, and in the upcoming days we will be deploying the following system to the server:
- Weekly skill point cap of 190.400 SP (without boosters) from fighting in battles - Players who have maxed out their cap will receive 1 SP per warpoint up to a limit of 1.000 SP(without boosters) per each battle
We chose to go with Option #2 (limiting skill points earned to a maximum of 1.000 SP per battle after the cap has been hit) as it was both the safer and the most popular option among the players. We will monitor the situation after the changes are live and look forward to receiving feedback from you. Once again, we would like to remind you that weekly skill point rollover system is being worked on and that this is just the temporary solution that we are implementing.
Thank you once again for your participation and feedback!
We will see you on the battlefield.
Sometimes I just wonder on the intellect of people, when they can't even go through a simple OP. We all voted for a TEMPORAL FIX that has been delayed already for 4 months, but what can we expect from CCP when :
Maken Tosch wrote:This rollover cap thing is nice to have for CCP to implement, but consider the problems CCP has to deal with at the moment.
PC Lag/framerates Bugged comms Matchmaking needs work Nova knives not dealing damage when they were suppose to Hit detection a pain the ass for many of us Tactical Assault Rifles being the FOTM for modded controller users Getting stuck on the edge of a building Heavies needing work Petitions being processed to address the whole negative-ISK problem Petitions being processed until the last moment of the 31st for skill respecs
I can go on.
I do not know if we can go on when you get stuck in a map every 2 meters due to some horrible map design
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