I kept reading a description of a light machine gun, while heavies use heavy machine guns.

Also as stated balance trumps realism.

exactly the heavy has a suit desgined to carry an hmg. but the heavy in this game has the same role in the squad as the lmg. beacue he is capable of caring it he uses a larger weapon. its already balanced out. actually the heavy is terribly underpowered. have you every played as one? have you played as one with all your points spec'd into it. there is no difference my friend.



balance and realism need to have an equilibrium. TAR shouldnt beat hmg at all ranges, where is the balance there?

I agree with OP.

In Chromo the heavy was an asset for its squad, now with the HMG nerf anyone and his heavy grandma runs around with ARs, because HMGs are a joke now, not unlike MDs.

I dont get why everything that worked so well in Chromo had to be f-¦cked up so badly. Like, literally everything that worked.

I kept reading a description of a light machine gun, while heavies use heavy machine guns.

Also as stated balance trumps realism.

You're missing something though, we don't have LMGs in Dust, we have HMGs in Dust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

Let's see someone move with a squad with a Ma-Deuce carrying it while firing to provide suppressive fire.

Also, all caps do not a good point make. You may want to calm down, high blood pressure can be deadly.

Unfortunately CCP designed the heavy as a defender only, even though poorly designed at that, it is for defense only. Unfortunately, a team cannot defend at all times which means that the heavy is useless until team mates take an objective. By CCP's logic, every heavy in the game is to either sit in the MCC or at the rear spawn until the team can take an objective for defending. If the team is stuck constantly attacking an objective, the heavy is unuseable by CCP's logic. If you put points into your suit, why should you have to run any other suit when attacking? You shouldn't. You should be able to play Dust in any suit to attack or defend, however, the heavy is not designed for attacking.

If you put points in any suit or vehicle, you should be able to use them at all times, attacking or defending.

#68 Posted: 2013.05.27 19:24 | Report
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun

wikipedia article stating basically what the heavies role in the squad is in real life. and its effectiveness.

"A light machine gun (LMG) is a machine gun designed to be employed by an individual soldier, with or without an assistant, as an infantry support weapon. Light machine guns are often used as squad automatic weapons.

A light machine gun is also defined by its usage as well as its specifications: some machine guns - notably general-purpose machine guns - may be deployed either as a light machine gun or a medium machine gun. Deployed on a tripod and used for sustained-fire it is a medium machine gun; if deployed with a bipod with the operator in prone position and firing short bursts it is a light machine gun.

Light machine guns are also designed to be fired from the hip or on the move as a form of suppressive fire intended to pin down the enemy. Marching fire is a specific tactic that relies on this capability.


Light machine guns were first introduced in World War I to boost the firepower of the infantry. By the end of World War II, light machine guns were usually being issued on a scale of one per fire team or squad, and the modern infantry squad had emerged with tactics that were built around the use of the LMG to provide suppressive fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon

A squad automatic weapon (SAW, also known as section automatic weapon or light support weapon) is a weapon used to give infantry squads or sections a portable source of automatic firepower. Weapons used in this role are selective fire rifles, usually fitted with a bipod and heavier barrel to perform as light machine guns. SAWs usually fire the same cartridge as the assault rifles or battle rifles carried by other members of the unit. This reduces logistical requirements by making it necessary to supply only one type of ammunition to a unit."



Lighter modern LMGs have enabled them to be issued down at the fireteam level, with two or three at the section/squad level.


imagine if HMGs had the same damage oper bulet as the TAC? or even the EXILE AR?! and yet in real life they do! this is the purpose of the HMG. and just to clarify. this is future tech. so instead of using an lmg the heavy with his advanced armor can carry an HMG. just like the shotgunner using the brace on the gun to stop it from breaking his arm off. long story short. the articles mention NOTHING ABOUT POINT DEFENSE!!!

ITS A SQUAD AUTOMATIC WEAPON DESIGNED FOR SUPPRESSIVE FIRE AND MOVING THE FRONTLINE FORWARD. PERIOD. IF YOU DNT WANNA BELIEVE IT TELL IT TO THE MARINES!

they are meant for an active role

in reality the guy with the lmg is still slower than the rest of the squad because he has to carry so much ammunition, and the gun does weigh more than the regular AR (although modern tech is making it lighter).

sweet so comparing light machine guns to heavy machine guns are now the same. tell the army to upgrade all of their weapons now.

I assure you the "Lighter" m240 is not fun to haul around irl. I carried an M249 and hates the M240 and the M60. Of course I used the m240B. Now the M240L is 5 pounds lighter but still over 20 pounds.

See, we need defined Attackers and Defenders rather than the mad dash to capture objectives. If we had that, then Heavies would be the best suit for being on the defending side.

Also, why couldn't a Heavy be dropped off by a dropship within optimal of an open-air objective (along with a Logi and maybe a couple of Assaults)? They would then land and shred every reddot in the area, heavy keeps it locked down while the logi hacks and the assaults pursue any reddots outside the heavies optimal. I would call that "defending the attack". The heavy wouldn't be required to have a lot of mobility (derpship solves that) though they would be able to support still while maintaining their point defense.

Just need to think creatively.

as you noticed the trend is toward lighter weaponry with the same or greater fire power. over time weapons get better deal with it

to make the HMG into a LMG it would need a mag size about 100 with the same damage, lower RoF and the same reload time which I bet no heavy would like plus this reduced weight would put into the light weapon so it would not even be heavy suit only anymore. so do you really want this? there is always going to need to change to lighter or heavier based on advances in defenses. so lighter not always the best way and not always the trend.

[quote=ladwar][quote=D legendary hero][quote=ladwar]
How does it make sense, LMGs use the same or bigger rounds than ARs so the damage would be much higher than it is now
I think the OP is not saying to literaly change the HMG into a LMG but rather give the HMG the same role as the present LMG, essentially the LMG of the future.

exactly. im speaking about the role. because to be honest in dust the hmg uses smaller munitions than the AR doing at make base 19.8 damage. the role of the lmg in the squad is the what i am comparing to the heavy in dust

But if u had the hmg shooting AR rounds or bigger with AR dmg and up people would probably complain cause the hmg would wipe the floor with them

I got an Idea. Give them the damage it deserves! But increase the warm up time for the gun to start firing. Decrease the rotation speed of the gun while firing, and the weapon switch between HMG to sidearm, you have to wait even longer!

I'd love to see this. Heavies would become the easiest kills alive for me at that point in time!

While called an HMG in this game, what a Heavy is actually carrying around (based on appearance) is a Gatling-Style Minigun... That apparently shoot's BB's and/or Airsoft Pellets... What a cruel joke CCP plays :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun

In other words if you wear a heavy suit you could pick up a hmg that would take a whole team to use and fire it like a rifle

exactly. im speaking about the role. because to be honest in dust the hmg uses smaller munitions than the AR doing at make base 19.8 damage. the role of the lmg in the squad is the what i am comparing to the heavy in dust

While heavies would be awesome like this, balance trumps realism. We can have guys with more armor than everyone else with tac ARs pumping out 600 rounds per minute now can we. Even so, I agree, this is the heavies' role, but this is not the way to do it.

as another point, yes this is a video game. what is the point of a video game? what is the point to a game? to have fun.
heavies as it is have a difficult time have said "fun" because we can't get to where the action is and contribute to the game. Do you think it is fun to camp in a corner and wait for enemies to pass by you to attack? Do you find it fun to get killed by said enemy because they do much more damage and are much more mobile?

ok, so i already know your response. "if you want to engage the enemy (aka having fun) use an assault or logi suit". ok so now you've just told me that the heavy suit is useless and there is no reason to spec 5million points into it. gotcha. next, "if you want to play on the front lines you gotta use, a tac, glu, or gek" because there is no point to using any other gun on the front lines.

if you want point defense you might as well, use a sniper in a logi suit with damage mods because i take zero damage as a sniper (im too far), and i can deal more damage than a heavy anyway.

so what conclusion do we have? we have a game where you have limited choice in effective weapons and loadouts. hmmm... sounds like Cod to me. might as well play that.


i speaking about balance. if you want an unbalanced FPS then play Cod, or BF.