DUST Search - heavies are not meant for point defense!!!

D legendary hero wrote:

as another point, yes this is a video game. what is the point of a video game? what is the point to a game? to have fun.
heavies as it is have a difficult time have said "fun" because we can't get to where the action is and contribute to the game. Do you think it is fun to camp in a corner and wait for enemies to pass by you to attack? Do you find it fun to get killed by said enemy because they do much more damage and are much more mobile?

ok, so i already know your response. "if you want to engage the enemy (aka having fun) use an assault or logi suit". ok so now you've just told me that the heavy suit is useless and there is no reason to spec 5million points into it. gotcha. next, "if you want to play on the front lines you gotta use, a tac, glu, or gek" because there is no point to using any other gun on the front lines.

if you want point defense you might as well, use a sniper in a logi suit with damage mods because i take zero damage as a sniper (im too far), and i can deal more damage than a heavy anyway.

so what conclusion do we have? we have a game where you have limited choice in effective weapons and loadouts. hmmm... sounds like Cod to me. might as well play that.

i speaking about balance. if you want an unbalanced FPS then play Cod, or BF.

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Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 139	Posted - 2013.05.29 18:34:00 - [31] - Quote CCP has done what many if not all other game developers have not. They have turned a medium range suppression weapon into a CQC. You'd be just as effective as a medium suit with 1k shield/armor and an SMG since you'd have greater mobility, even with the armor mods, as compared to a heavy. The heavy suit might be fine if the HMG was able to shoot at medium ranges. With the suit's slow turning speed, the light and medium suits have the advantage of quick flanking. When a heavy is defending frontal assaults, the heavy should have the advantage since it is has a horrible turning rate. This does not negate the fact that medium suits have too many high and low power module slots.
Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2013.05.29 20:03:00 - [32] - Quote Treablo James Howard wrote: Raze galder wrote: But if u had the hmg shooting AR rounds or bigger with AR dmg and up people would probably complain cause the hmg would wipe the floor with them I got an Idea. Give them the damage it deserves! But increase the warm up time for the gun to start firing. Decrease the rotation speed of the gun while firing, and the weapon switch between HMG to sidearm, you have to wait even longer! I'd love to see this. Heavies would become the easiest kills alive for me at that point in time! And what would that damage be 30-50,20-30 depending on gun? also if they decreased rotation speed the would be decreasing the rpm of the gun maybe increase heat up time slightly. if your going to name something heavy machine gun give it the power to back it up
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 36	Posted - 2013.05.30 03:09:00 - [33] - Quote idk, the hmg is pretty powerful as is. its the range that needs an increase. because the rpm is balanced, and the head shot bonus is crazy nice. lets really the suit that makes it bad for now
XV1 Challenger 4 16	Posted - 2013.05.30 03:27:00 - [34] - Quote I would like to see longer range and shorter range variants, maybe make longer range variants have a spool-up time before they begin firing. Currently the range seems very low ( I was playing with a heavy no SP investment though LVL 1 heavy/HMG). I can get a decent number of kills with or without support with a HMG because it has crazy good damage, but most of my kills were fairly close. Maybe they could increase the range but make the bullets spread more, making it less deadly at longer ranges but still keeping the suppression aspect at medium ranges. Make some variants with higher fire rate and more spread and some with lower RoF and less spread. This would add suppressing fire capabilities back to the HMG while simultaneously allowing heavies to get longer range with a decrease in DPS.
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 15	Posted - 2013.05.30 06:09:00 - [35] - Quote While called an HMG in this game, what a Heavy is actually carrying around (based on appearance) is a Gatling-Style Minigun... That apparently shoot's BB's and/or Airsoft Pellets... What a cruel joke CCP plays :( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun
Dust HaHakoke Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2013.05.30 06:46:00 - [36] - Quote The HMG that heavies carry would as you would expect usually can not be carried by 1 guy even with medium suits the heavy actually gives massive assistance to normal human limits even when compared to the other suits
Dust HaHakoke Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2013.05.30 06:51:00 - [37] - Quote In other words if you wear a heavy suit you could pick up a hmg that would take a whole team to use and fire it like a rifle
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 36	Posted - 2013.05.30 07:10:00 - [38] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: While called an HMG in this game, what a Heavy is actually carrying around (based on appearance) is a Gatling-Style Minigun... That apparently shoot's BB's and/or Airsoft Pellets... What a cruel joke CCP plays :( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun it fires skittles
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 36	Posted - 2013.05.30 07:11:00 - [39] - Quote Dust HaHakoke wrote: In other words if you wear a heavy suit you could pick up a hmg that would take a whole team to use and fire it like a rifle dnt assault suits fire magnetically sealed plasma rounds? nothings impossible
xSir Campsalotx Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.05.30 07:50:00 - [40] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: xSir Campsalotx wrote: [quote=ladwar][quote=D legendary hero][quote=ladwar] How does it make sense, LMGs use the same or bigger rounds than ARs so the damage would be much higher than it is now I think the OP is not saying to literaly change the HMG into a LMG but rather give the HMG the same role as the present LMG, essentially the LMG of the future. exactly. im speaking about the role. because to be honest in dust the hmg uses smaller munitions than the AR doing at make base 19.8 damage. the role of the lmg in the squad is the what i am comparing to the heavy in dust Ok I can agree but how could a RL LMG help surpress if it has a third the range of the RL ARs, it couldnt. The role requires range because if your 10m in front of me how can I surpress that guy shooting at you who is 50m further with a TAR or even regular AR? Can't thus no surpressive role unless within 20-25m then I watch as you die wishing I could've given you some cover.

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 39	Posted - 2013.05.30 08:04:00 - [41] - Quote ^^this which is why CCP is fixing the range issues now, because the hmg will have just as much if not slightly less range than the AR to make it accomplish its job well
XV1 Challenger 4 16	Posted - 2013.05.30 20:36:00 - [42] - Quote I say Tactical AR should have higher range than standard AR and HMG. Burst would be higher than standard too, but less than tac
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 812	Posted - 2013.05.30 20:51:00 - [43] - Quote We're all running around in Iron Man suits, your reference to realism is invalid. facepalm But really, people need to learn to read the writing on the wall. I may be mistaken, but the HMG was never defined as a point-defense weapon, the SENTINEL suit was defined as point defense, featuring more defense, less mobility, and lower damage output. sen-+ti-+nel (snt-nl) n. One that keeps guard; a sentry. tr.v. sen-+ti-+neled or sen-+ti-+nelled, sen-+ti-+nel-+ing or sen-+ti-+nel-+ling, sen-+ti-+nels 1. To watch over as a guard. 2. To provide with a guard. 3. To post as a guard. Well ok that makes sense then. The SUIT is designed to take a lot of damage but not move around much....so a guard, alright, cool. Has it ever occurred to anyone that additional Heavy Frame specialty suits will be coming out. Obviously we have Commando but that's ot a HMG user so I wont get into that. But there will likely be a another Heavy Frame Specialty that comes with oh I dont know...a bonus to HMG range or damage per level, featuring lower defenses than the Sentinel but is more mobile and flexible in combat? The game isn't complete, never will be, its ever changing. But before you get your iron panties in a bunch and start quoting a bunch of real world wiki pages like it actually has any real relevance to a video game, stop and consider that what you're looking for is probably already on the pipeline for development. You want to make a suggestion for something you want? Great! But think a little before you get all uppity about the role not playing exactly like you want it to yet.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 39	Posted - 2013.05.31 01:01:00 - [44] - Quote does a body guard stand in one spot while the person he is protecting goes down the street? again, what you are asking for is a turret. sentinels became obsolete awhile ago. nonetheless, you have clearly failed to understand the point i was making, and as you have not thoroughly reviewed that information before responding. your post does not merit consideration. I do not make mention of the sentinel in this post. and yet everyone refers to it. i was speaking about the basic heavy suit. still, the same principles apply. the roles are the same. the sentinel should be slower than the basic and other suits, but no heavy should be so slow that they can not participate in the combat of the game.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 39	Posted - 2013.05.31 01:07:00 - [45] - Quote as another point, yes this is a video game. what is the point of a video game? what is the point to a game? to have fun. heavies as it is have a difficult time have said "fun" because we can't get to where the action is and contribute to the game. Do you think it is fun to camp in a corner and wait for enemies to pass by you to attack? Do you find it fun to get killed by said enemy because they do much more damage and are much more mobile? ok, so i already know your response. "if you want to run around use a scout, assault or logi suit". ok so now you've just told me that the heavy suit is useless and there is no reason to spec 5million points into it. gotcha. next, "if you want to play on the front lines you gotta use, a tac, glu, or gek" because there is no point to using any other gun on the front lines. if you want point defense you might as well, use a sniper because i take zero damage as a sniper im too far, and i can deal more damage than a heavy anyway. so what conclusion do we have? we have a game where you have limited choice in effective weapons and loadouts. hmmm... sounds like Cod to me. might as well play that.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 128	Posted - 2013.05.31 02:36:00 - [46] - Quote slypie11 wrote: While heavies would be awesome like this, balance trumps realism. We can have guys with more armor than everyone else with tac ARs pumping out 600 rounds per minute now can we. Even so, I agree, this is the heavies' role, but this is not the way to do it. So then what should the heavy's role be? Using forge guns only?
Dust HaHakoke Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 25	Posted - 2013.05.31 03:47:00 - [47] - Quote The hmg is viable if not mainly used for a defensive role the problem right now is that heavies cannot fill their other roles such as supressive fire
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 812	Posted - 2013.05.31 06:48:00 - [48] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: as another point, yes this is a video game. what is the point of a video game? what is the point to a game? to have fun. heavies as it is have a difficult time have said "fun" because we can't get to where the action is and contribute to the game. Do you think it is fun to camp in a corner and wait for enemies to pass by you to attack? Do you find it fun to get killed by said enemy because they do much more damage and are much more mobile? ok, so i already know your response. "if you want to engage the enemy (aka having fun) use an assault or logi suit". ok so now you've just told me that the heavy suit is useless and there is no reason to spec 5million points into it. gotcha. next, "if you want to play on the front lines you gotta use, a tac, glu, or gek" because there is no point to using any other gun on the front lines. if you want point defense you might as well, use a sniper in a logi suit with damage mods because i take zero damage as a sniper (im too far), and i can deal more damage than a heavy anyway. so what conclusion do we have? we have a game where you have limited choice in effective weapons and loadouts. hmmm... sounds like Cod to me. might as well play that. i speaking about balance. if you want an unbalanced FPS then play Cod, or BF. My point was that the Heavy Frame isn't for point defense That's the Sentinels job. So when you say "THE HEAVY ISNT FOR POINT DEFENSE" you're right, because it's not intended to be. the HMG is for area denial, much like a mass driver or a flaylock. It's not for covering fire or assaulting, its for making certain chokepoints impassible. This does not mean that the Heavy Frame is ONLY for sitting in one spot like a turret, it's for moving around and forcing the enemy to move where the team needs them to go. This is very useful when in very tight quarters where you need to force enemies into choke points to be torn apart by friendly assault roles. Does this provide much of a role when running solo? No not really, but this is a team based game after all.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 44	Posted - 2013.05.31 07:59:00 - [49] - Quote ^^indeed. i was playing a game earlier, with my squad and i was playing the heavy role of squad defense. when people tried to flank my squad i stopped them. at the same time, when they tried to overrun my squad i laid down suppressive fire. in ambush matches i can run solo, but im not as effective as i am with a team. ideally every unit is equal to every other unit. so, a heavy and scout are equal. they are simply variations of the same soldier. my main pont is the heavy is meant to roll with his squad and defend them, to take the bullets they would have taken had he not been there to allow them to do their job. to suppress the enemy, to provide cover fire, to prevent flanking.


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