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Posted - 2013.05.27 19:25:00 -
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#68 Posted: 2013.05.27 19:24 | Report
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun
wikipedia article stating basically what the heavies role in the squad is in real life. and its effectiveness.
"A light machine gun (LMG) is a machine gun designed to be employed by an individual soldier, with or without an assistant, as an infantry support weapon. Light machine guns are often used as squad automatic weapons.
A light machine gun is also defined by its usage as well as its specifications: some machine guns - notably general-purpose machine guns - may be deployed either as a light machine gun or a medium machine gun. Deployed on a tripod and used for sustained-fire it is a medium machine gun; if deployed with a bipod with the operator in prone position and firing short bursts it is a light machine gun.
Light machine guns are also designed to be fired from the hip or on the move as a form of suppressive fire intended to pin down the enemy. Marching fire is a specific tactic that relies on this capability.
Light machine guns were first introduced in World War I to boost the firepower of the infantry. By the end of World War II, light machine guns were usually being issued on a scale of one per fire team or squad, and the modern infantry squad had emerged with tactics that were built around the use of the LMG to provide suppressive fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon
A squad automatic weapon (SAW, also known as section automatic weapon or light support weapon) is a weapon used to give infantry squads or sections a portable source of automatic firepower. Weapons used in this role are selective fire rifles, usually fitted with a bipod and heavier barrel to perform as light machine guns. SAWs usually fire the same cartridge as the assault rifles or battle rifles carried by other members of the unit. This reduces logistical requirements by making it necessary to supply only one type of ammunition to a unit."
Lighter modern LMGs have enabled them to be issued down at the fireteam level, with two or three at the section/squad level.
imagine if HMGs had the same damage oper bulet as the TAC? or even the EXILE AR?! and yet in real life they do! this is the purpose of the HMG. and just to clarify. this is future tech. so instead of using an lmg the heavy with his advanced armor can carry an HMG. just like the shotgunner using the brace on the gun to stop it from breaking his arm off. long story short. the articles mention NOTHING ABOUT POINT DEFENSE!!!
ITS A SQUAD AUTOMATIC WEAPON DESIGNED FOR SUPPRESSIVE FIRE AND MOVING THE FRONTLINE FORWARD. PERIOD. IF YOU DNT WANNA BELIEVE IT TELL IT TO THE MARINES!
they are meant for an active role |
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Posted - 2013.05.27 19:42:00 -
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in reality the guy with the lmg is still slower than the rest of the squad because he has to carry so much ammunition, and the gun does weigh more than the regular AR (although modern tech is making it lighter).
the point is he can keep up with the squad!
so heavies in this game should be slower than everyone else, but not so slow that you cant participate in the game. i say a ood 15%-20% faster. the turn speed could stay the same though so ppl canmove around the heavy. in reality one shot in the right spot can kill the lmg guy just like everyone else.
in dust514 however, we have shields and armor. the slower movement automatically makes the heavy a target and the bigger hit bx makes you harder to miss. so, with additional shielding, armor and a resistance to small arms and grenades by 30%-40% the heavy gets balanced with everyone else.
if the heavy had 500shield and 500 armor. an exile assault rifle does 387.5dps. with a 30% reduction that goes to 271dps. the whole clip does 1860. minus the 30% its still 1308damage per clip. the resistance punishes in accuracy. if you miss shots and dnt aim for the head, you will need another clip and you will die.
really even in the descriptionis says the heavies armor is designed to resist small arms fire and explosives. |
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Posted - 2013.05.27 20:09:00 -
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Delirium Inferno wrote:I kept reading a description of a light machine gun, while heavies use heavy machine guns.
Also as stated balance trumps realism.
exactly the heavy has a suit desgined to carry an hmg. but the heavy in this game has the same role in the squad as the lmg. beacue he is capable of caring it he uses a larger weapon. its already balanced out. actually the heavy is terribly underpowered. have you every played as one? have you played as one with all your points spec'd into it. there is no difference my friend.
balance and realism need to have an equilibrium. TAR shouldnt beat hmg at all ranges, where is the balance there? |
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Posted - 2013.05.28 00:45:00 -
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ladwar wrote:sweet so comparing light machine guns to heavy machine guns are now the same. tell the army to upgrade all of their weapons now.
as you noticed the trend is toward lighter weaponry with the same or greater fire power. over time weapons get better deal with it |
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Posted - 2013.05.28 00:46:00 -
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Krythor Motrec wrote: I assure you the "Lighter" m240 is not fun to haul around irl. I carried an M249 and hates the M240 and the M60. Of course I used the m240B. Now the M240L is 5 pounds lighter but still over 20 pounds.
sure wish you had a power suit that made it lighter to carry...lol |
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Posted - 2013.05.28 00:47:00 -
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Alaika Arbosa wrote:Chinduko wrote:Unfortunately CCP designed the heavy as a defender only, even though poorly designed at that, it is for defense only. Unfortunately, a team cannot defend at all times which means that the heavy is useless until team mates take an objective. By CCP's logic, every heavy in the game is to either sit in the MCC or at the rear spawn until the team can take an objective for defending. If the team is stuck constantly attacking an objective, the heavy is unuseable by CCP's logic. If you put points into your suit, why should you have to run any other suit when attacking? You shouldn't. You should be able to play Dust in any suit to attack or defend, however, the heavy is not designed for attacking.
If you put points in any suit or vehicle, you should be able to use them at all times, attacking or defending. See, we need defined Attackers and Defenders rather than the mad dash to capture objectives. If we had that, then Heavies would be the best suit for being on the defending side. Also, why couldn't a Heavy be dropped off by a dropship within optimal of an open-air objective (along with a Logi and maybe a couple of Assaults)? They would then land and shred every reddot in the area, heavy keeps it locked down while the logi hacks and the assaults pursue any reddots outside the heavies optimal. I would call that "defending the attack". The heavy wouldn't be required to have a lot of mobility (derpship solves that) though they would be able to support still while maintaining their point defense. Just need to think creatively.
ive done this. its pretty fun. but i like options not necessity. must i have a drop in every battle? |
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Posted - 2013.05.29 06:01:00 -
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i like the burst but the range kills me and its nature as the shotgun of the heavy, with my slow turn speed i cnt do it... lol |
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:50:00 -
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i was comparing the hmg of the game to the lmg of RL. beacuase people dnt run around with HMGs in RL.
the squad role of the HMG dust 514 is comparable in damage, accuracy, munition and role as the lmg in RL. |
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:53:00 -
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xSir Campsalotx wrote:[quote=ladwar][quote=D legendary hero][quote=ladwar]
How does it make sense, LMGs use the same or bigger rounds than ARs so the damage would be much higher than it is now
I think the OP is not saying to literaly change the HMG into a LMG but rather give the HMG the same role as the present LMG, essentially the LMG of the future.
exactly. im speaking about the role. because to be honest in dust the hmg uses smaller munitions than the AR doing at make base 19.8 damage. the role of the lmg in the squad is the what i am comparing to the heavy in dust |
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Posted - 2013.05.30 03:09:00 -
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idk, the hmg is pretty powerful as is. its the range that needs an increase. because the rpm is balanced, and the head shot bonus is crazy nice. lets really the suit that makes it bad for now |
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Posted - 2013.05.30 07:10:00 -
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Farsund Solheim wrote:While called an HMG in this game, what a Heavy is actually carrying around (based on appearance) is a Gatling-Style Minigun... That apparently shoot's BB's and/or Airsoft Pellets... What a cruel joke CCP plays :( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun
it fires skittles |
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Posted - 2013.05.30 07:11:00 -
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Dust HaHakoke wrote:In other words if you wear a heavy suit you could pick up a hmg that would take a whole team to use and fire it like a rifle
dnt assault suits fire magnetically sealed plasma rounds? nothings impossible |
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Posted - 2013.05.30 08:04:00 -
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^^this
which is why CCP is fixing the range issues now, because the hmg will have just as much if not slightly less range than the AR to make it accomplish its job well |
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Posted - 2013.05.31 01:01:00 -
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does a body guard stand in one spot while the person he is protecting goes down the street? again, what you are asking for is a turret. sentinels became obsolete awhile ago.
nonetheless, you have clearly failed to understand the point i was making, and as you have not thoroughly reviewed that information before responding. your post does not merit consideration.
I do not make mention of the sentinel in this post. and yet everyone refers to it. i was speaking about the basic heavy suit. still, the same principles apply. the roles are the same. the sentinel should be slower than the basic and other suits, but no heavy should be so slow that they can not participate in the combat of the game. |
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Posted - 2013.05.31 01:07:00 -
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as another point, yes this is a video game. what is the point of a video game? what is the point to a game? to have fun.
heavies as it is have a difficult time have said "fun" because we can't get to where the action is and contribute to the game. Do you think it is fun to camp in a corner and wait for enemies to pass by you to attack? Do you find it fun to get killed by said enemy because they do much more damage and are much more mobile?
ok, so i already know your response. "if you want to run around use a scout, assault or logi suit". ok so now you've just told me that the heavy suit is useless and there is no reason to spec 5million points into it. gotcha. next, "if you want to play on the front lines you gotta use, a tac, glu, or gek" because there is no point to using any other gun on the front lines.
if you want point defense you might as well, use a sniper because i take zero damage as a sniper im too far, and i can deal more damage than a heavy anyway.
so what conclusion do we have? we have a game where you have limited choice in effective weapons and loadouts. hmmm... sounds like Cod to me. might as well play that. |
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Posted - 2013.05.31 07:59:00 -
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^^indeed.
i was playing a game earlier, with my squad and i was playing the heavy role of squad defense. when people tried to flank my squad i stopped them. at the same time, when they tried to overrun my squad i laid down suppressive fire.
in ambush matches i can run solo, but im not as effective as i am with a team. ideally every unit is equal to every other unit. so, a heavy and scout are equal. they are simply variations of the same soldier.
my main pont is the heavy is meant to roll with his squad and defend them, to take the bullets they would have taken had he not been there to allow them to do their job. to suppress the enemy, to provide cover fire, to prevent flanking. |
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