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Telleth DUST University Ivy League 15	Posted - 2013.05.27 05:27:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, so after my first encounter with a proto forge gun, feeling rather amazed at how quick my tank turned into burnt iskies, I decided to look and compare the damage. They put out between 1.5k to 2.7k per shot. A proto large railgun does... Can't find the number, but I believe the highest per shot is 1.7k. Hmm, ok, price-forge gun is 47k, railgun is 980k... Currently I would want to bolt a forge gun to my tank, higher damage, much much cheaper, I can't hold a a charge with the railgun so it wouldn't be much different there, and it's next to impossible to hit anything while moving so the breach wouldn't be too bad either. Heck, the rails overheat fairly quick too, not any different from having to reload. How does this work with any sense of realism or balance? I mean, the best available to a tanker is less damaging than a forge gun. Aren't forge guns supposed to be miniature versions of rail guns? As far as balance goes, I understand that it is an anti tank weapon and should make any tanker's life hell, but to go up in 4seconds from a pair from halfway across the map is a bit ridiculous.
danny12343331 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 61	Posted - 2013.05.27 05:37:00 - [2] - Quote Railgun-600m Forgegun-300m Must i say more?
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 758	Posted - 2013.05.27 05:42:00 - [3] - Quote I'd call it working as intended
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.05.27 05:47:00 - [4] - Quote Isnt that easy to snipe a forge gun due to charge light glare and overcharge shaking and lack of zoom. Projectile speed is also rather slow, having to lead your target depending on how far he is. Limited shots, make every shot count. Railgun has infinite ammo, never has to reload, pinpoint accuracy, instant hitscan, can take multiple hits from pretty much anything if properly fitted. Only issue is the turret aim can be wonky at times.
Schalac 17 Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 172	Posted - 2013.05.27 06:00:00 - [5] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: Projectile speed is also rather slow, having to lead your target depending on how far he is. Which is BS because in the description of the FG it says the projectile travels at 7000 m/s. All FG shots should be insta hit. Yet they aren't. And tank railguns are weaker because you have them mounted to a TANK, with 5 times the HP, that can rapid fire the shots until overheat. When they allow FG to rapid fire until overheat then I will say it is not balanced.
Arcturis Vanguard Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 21	Posted - 2013.05.27 06:09:00 - [6] - Quote All valid reasons stated above. Don't touch my forge gun. It's working as intended. Please remember your sweet spot. It's so juicy when I pop it!
Enderr Wigginn KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 107	Posted - 2013.05.27 06:23:00 - [7] - Quote Telleth wrote: but to go up in 4seconds from a pair from halfway across the map is a bit ridiculous. Pfffffff 4 seconds we were quad forge gunning at one point today and tanks were not even last that long
Yeva Kalsani Reckoners 109	Posted - 2013.05.27 06:30:00 - [8] - Quote What should AV weapons do? Take 20 times as long to take down your vehicle, giving you plenty of time to instagib the infantry using them multiple times over?
castba Penguin's March 1	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:30:00 - [9] - Quote Telleth wrote: They put out between 1.5k to 2.7k per shot. A proto large railgun does... Can't find the number, but I believe the highest per shot is 1.7k. Hmm, ok, price-forge gun is 47k, railgun is 980k... Tanked Proto Sentinel has ~1500hp = 1 hit kill for the railgun Tanked tank has how many HP? Pretty sure it is more than 1.5-2.7k
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 553	Posted - 2013.05.27 11:36:00 - [10] - Quote OP is spot on Handheld FG does more damage than a vehicle mounted railgun lol

BobThe843CakeMan PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 358	Posted - 2013.05.27 11:41:00 - [11] - Quote my rail completely maxed out does 2.9k damage. this is with 3 damage mods which is my normal fit.
Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 11:44:00 - [12] - Quote I do agree with OP that it does not make sense realism wise. However, I also agree with many other poster, I make sense balance wise. So I would say, leave it be.
Telleth DUST University Ivy League 16	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:06:00 - [13] - Quote Enderr Wigginn wrote: Telleth wrote: but to go up in 4seconds from a pair from halfway across the map is a bit ridiculous. Pfffffff 4 seconds, we were quad forge gunning (all isukone @ level 5 proficiency) at one point today and tanks were not even lasting that long Haha, y'all were the ones that prompted me to look up that stats to figure out why my butt hurt so bad. I don't feel quite so bad knowing there were 4 of you, I only could ever make out 2. Freakin optimization crap. For your squad to have taken me out that quick, knowing the coordination and amount of SP that must take, the balance seems about right. Still, think the realism is off though. A vehicle mounted weapon doing less damage than a handheld... Just feels wrong.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 763	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:12:00 - [14] - Quote danny12343331 wrote: Railgun-600m Forgegun-300m Must i say more? Yes.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 123	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:21:00 - [15] - Quote I think both needs a nerf damage wise. I like longer engagements than quick brawls. Plus, I get kitted too damn much. Peace, Godin
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 593	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:38:00 - [16] - Quote Forge guns are OP and will be rebalance when they balance AV nades. Its absolutly ridiculous that a hand held weapon does more damage than a vehicle mounted one its just a joke
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3253	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:45:00 - [17] - Quote Forge gun needs falloff, it's a very very easy weapon to use (as someone who's used it on and off for a year now) Also, what gives with the new charging animation? A little orb? It's so stupid and waaay lamer than before, before the forge gun actually felt and looked badass as it was charging. Now? Lmao.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.05.27 13:09:00 - [18] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: Isnt that easy to snipe a forge gun due to charge light glare and overcharge shaking and lack of zoom. Projectile speed is also rather slow, having to lead your target depending on how far he is. Limited shots, make every shot count. Railgun has infinite ammo, never has to reload, pinpoint accuracy, instant hitscan, can take multiple hits from pretty much anything if properly fitted. Only issue is the turret aim can be wonky at times. What you mean by charge light glare is a few pixels on my screen turning to a light blue.... If your player model has even loaded, that is. Half the time we don't know where you are, so stop defending yourselves with the charge glare. Also, tank size vs dropsuit size. Which is bigger? Our zoom helps to aid us against your small size. You don't need zoom because we are huge, and I see aiming to be balanced. So stop defending yourselves with your inability to zoom.
Enderr Wigginn KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 107	Posted - 2013.05.27 13:38:00 - [19] - Quote Telleth wrote: Enderr Wigginn wrote: Telleth wrote: but to go up in 4seconds from a pair from halfway across the map is a bit ridiculous. Pfffffff 4 seconds, we were quad forge gunning (all isukone @ level 5 proficiency) at one point today and tanks were not even lasting that long Haha, y'all were the ones that prompted me to look up that stats to figure out why my butt hurt so bad. I don't feel quite so bad knowing there were 4 of you, I only could ever make out 2. Freakin optimization crap. For your squad to have taken me out that quick, knowing the coordination and amount of SP that must take, the balance seems about right. Still, think the realism is off though. A vehicle mounted weapon doing less damage than a handheld... Just feels wrong. Lol I thought you were one of the guys we got. Yes do not feel bad we were practicing tactics with four of our elites with the most powerful forge guns, mic'ed up and synchronized shooting. We were literally raining down hell onto the battlefield.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 99	Posted - 2013.05.27 14:59:00 - [20] - Quote danny12343331 wrote: Railgun-600m Forgegun-300m Must i say more? No, railgun has far less than that. My range is out to about 525m. I've tried hitting 550, but it didn't work.

Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2013.05.27 18:00:00 - [21] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Doc Noah wrote: Isnt that easy to snipe a forge gun due to charge light glare and overcharge shaking and lack of zoom. Projectile speed is also rather slow, having to lead your target depending on how far he is. Limited shots, make every shot count. Railgun has infinite ammo, never has to reload, pinpoint accuracy, instant hitscan, can take multiple hits from pretty much anything if properly fitted. Only issue is the turret aim can be wonky at times. What you mean by charge light glare is a few pixels on my screen turning to a light blue.... If your player model has even loaded, that is. Half the time we don't know where you are, so stop defending yourselves with the charge glare. Also, tank size vs dropsuit size. Which is bigger? Our zoom helps to aid us against your small size. You don't need zoom because we are huge, and I see aiming to be balanced. So stop defending yourselves with your inability to zoom. Dont know what kind of TV you're using, but mine makes it difficult to see clear once I fully charge. Your "few pixels" is covering most of my crosshair with a light blue filter. Not a good combo when you have people wearing dark DS or on vibrant/dark maps. Giant blue glowing orb makes them stick out rather easy and more often than not, getting into a good ninja spot involves leaving the safety of your team's group in favor of a more secluded non obvious spot which leaves you rather exposed to snipers, infantry, and stranded in a heavy suit. As for size differences, assuming a railgun tank is shooting at a range and not in CQ where blasters and missles would have been a better choice, its not easy aiming at a distant tank while being mobile (ie strafing to avoid direct rail shots), more often than not you have to stand still for a good few seconds to set up a good clean shot. You then have to repeat this as many times as it takes till either 1) tank loses shields and retreats, 2) tank gets destroyed, or 3) get shot down by a well timed railgun.
Severance Pay Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 249	Posted - 2013.05.27 18:17:00 - [22] - Quote Talruum Tezztarozza wrote: I do agree with OP that it does not make sense realism wise. However, I also agree with many other posters, It make sense balance wise. So I would say, leave it be. You have never heard of antitank guns? In reallife a sniper can use an antitank rifle to kill each individual in a tank or target its power train and turbines to imobilize it. You saying you would rather have this? You would rather we snipe you out of your tank and steal it? This all sounds like you think tanks should onlu be killed with tanks and you should be in godmode when you have one unless there is another tank. You are out of your mind.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 358	Posted - 2013.05.27 19:20:00 - [23] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Talruum Tezztarozza wrote: I do agree with OP that it does not make sense realism wise. However, I also agree with many other posters, It make sense balance wise. So I would say, leave it be. You have never heard of antitank guns? In reallife a sniper can use an antitank rifle to kill each individual in a tank or target its power train and turbines to imobilize it. You saying you would rather have this? You would rather we snipe you out of your tank and steal it? This all sounds like you think tanks should onlu be killed with tanks and you should be in godmode when you have one unless there is another tank. You are out of your mind. I believe he said that the current situation makes sense balance wise and should be left as is.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1376	Posted - 2013.05.27 19:26:00 - [24] - Quote danny12343331 wrote: Railgun-600m Forgegun-300m Must i say more? Yes. Railguns- fully automatic, need cooldown after 4 shots Forge guns- charge to fire every time. Need reload after 3 shots, and have limited ammo.
Severance Pay Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 253	Posted - 2013.05.27 19:31:00 - [25] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Talruum Tezztarozza wrote: I do agree with OP that it does not make sense realism wise. However, I also agree with many other posters, It make sense balance wise. So I would say, leave it be. You have never heard of antitank guns? In reallife a sniper can use an antitank rifle to kill each individual in a tank or target its power train and turbines to imobilize it. You saying you would rather have this? You would rather we snipe you out of your tank and steal it? This all sounds like you think tanks should onlu be killed with tanks and you should be in godmode when you have one unless there is another tank. You are out of your mind. I believe he said that the current situation makes sense balance wise and should be left as is. Oic, strokes chin
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 403	Posted - 2013.05.27 19:41:00 - [26] - Quote Y'know, if a forge gunner jumps on the top of your tank it will cost you nothing to outfit... though he might get sniped.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1376	Posted - 2013.05.27 19:50:00 - [27] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Y'know, if a forge gunner jumps on the top of your tank it will cost you nothing to outfit... though he might get sniped. That would require a heavy falling off of a ledge onto your tank. They have a 3 inch vertical.
ER-Bullitt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2013.05.28 05:03:00 - [28] - Quote I was involved in the squad that was destroying tanks which prompted the OPs thread and/or concern about the forge being OP. Let me clarify 4 heavies, proto gear, 8mil SP each or more Elevated, well defended position 4 ishukone assault forge guns (1667 base damage),lvl 5 prof, 2x complex damage mods = 2217 dmg per shot 1.5 sec between shots, 4 round clip So that's roughly 5900dps between the squad of 4 Simple answer... Should we not blow your tank up in seconds? 1v1 I can't out dps a good tanker, emphasis on GOOD. OP got out strategized, that is all. And I know strategized is not a word.
ER-Bullitt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2013.05.28 05:08:00 - [29] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: I was involved in the squad that was destroying tanks which prompted the OPs thread and/or concern about the forge being OP. Let me clarify 4 heavies, proto gear, 8mil SP each or more Elevated, well defended position 4 ishukone assault forge guns (1667 base damage),lvl 5 prof, 2x complex damage mods = 2217 dmg per shot 1.5 sec between shots, 4 round clip So that's roughly 5900dps between the squad of 4 Simple question... Should we not blow your tank up in seconds? Does this mean forge is OP, or our squad was OP, or both. Or did we just Employ a good tactic. 2 proto snipers could have neutralized us with coordinated shots. Most likely nobody on the OP's team was even on comms, probably not even squadded up. 1v1 I can't out dps a good tanker with my forge setup, emphasis on GOOD. OP got out strategized, that is all. To the rest of you qq'ers... Learn to play or gtfo. And I know strategized is not a word.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1652	Posted - 2013.05.28 05:29:00 - [30] - Quote Yeva Kalsani wrote: What should AV weapons do? Take 20 times as long to take down your vehicle, giving you plenty of time to instagib the infantry using them multiple times over? No, they should be balanced toward the fact that we're going to have increasing player counts, and a larger number of AV specialists, and thus AV at its current potency will turn the use of ANY vehicle into moronic suicide. THAT is the point.



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