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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
More and more I read about people who specced into vehicles whining about various things. Recently its this bogus claim that they are using LAVs to hit players because their vehicle skills are useless. All of this is BS, but it made me think about DUST as a game, and how AV just isnt very fun.
The main problem with vehicle/AV balance is the fact that it is not fun to be in a position where you can not reasonably expect to even damage the enemy unit. This is also why snipers are annoying. Nobody enjoys losing a fight they had zero chance of winning. Even a slimmer of hope is enough. A scout turning a corner and seeing a HMG in his face, he can TRY to dance and fire his SMG and maybe bring the heavy down. Will he? probably not, but its not a bad player experience to lose that lopsided fight.
But to see an LAV or an HAV and know "hey, my current load out makes it really impossible to do anything against this unit" is boring.
So why not spec into AV? Well, because that simply makes the problem even worse. Now, instead of having a feeling of "my loadout is useless against this one unit" you feel "well my loadout is useless against everyone except this one unit, which I still need help to destroy."
Forge guns are less of an issue with this, because they at least can fight infantry. But with Heavy suits being so situational and vulnerable, it isnt realistic to expect players to use it.
CCP needs to look at Battlefield and their balance or Halo and their balance. In battlefield the AV unit is provided with a good means of dealing with anti infantry. He does not feel overly gimped in an infantry combat. In DUST, side arm weapons are decent in situations, but you really are very limited.
Halo goes the other way, for most vehicals, the primary gun on most players can do damage. Banshees and ghosts can be brought down quickly by concentraited small arms fire. This means players dont feel useless against a vehicle they jsut need to coordinate.
It comes down to this, right now vehicles are treated mainly as an intrusion on a seperate game. There isnt really a balanced interaction between infantry and vehicles. It doesnt feel like an integrated game balanced for the two play styles to interact. It feels like vehicles sit on top of infantry gameplay, and if you want to interact with them you have to step out of infantry gameplay and go play with the tanks.
TLDR:
If you want stronger tanks, AV builds either needs to be better against infantry or infantry builds need to be somewhat effective against tanks. The all or nothing of DUSTs AV makes it boring. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
538
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
lol infantry needs to be effective against tanks
lol he wants a proto TAC AR to take down a madrugar in a clip lolno |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:lol infantry needs to be effective against tanks
lol he wants a proto TAC AR to take down a madrugar in a clip lolno I know
Get online |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lol that's what I said lol your post was insightful lollolno |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:More and more I read about people who specced into vehicles whining about various things. Recently its this bogus claim that they are using LAVs to hit players because their vehicle skills are useless. All of this is BS, but it made me think about DUST as a game, and how AV just isnt very fun.
The main problem with vehicle/AV balance is the fact that it is not fun to be in a position where you can not reasonably expect to even damage the enemy unit. This is also why snipers are annoying. Nobody enjoys losing a fight they had zero chance of winning. Even a slimmer of hope is enough. A scout turning a corner and seeing a HMG in his face, he can TRY to dance and fire his SMG and maybe bring the heavy down. Will he? probably not, but its not a bad player experience to lose that lopsided fight.
But to see an LAV or an HAV and know "hey, my current load out makes it really impossible to do anything against this unit" is boring.
So why not spec into AV? Well, because that simply makes the problem even worse. Now, instead of having a feeling of "my loadout is useless against this one unit" you feel "well my loadout is useless against everyone except this one unit, which I still need help to destroy."
Forge guns are less of an issue with this, because they at least can fight infantry. But with Heavy suits being so situational and vulnerable, it isnt realistic to expect players to use it.
CCP needs to look at Battlefield and their balance or Halo and their balance. In battlefield the AV unit is provided with a good means of dealing with anti infantry. He does not feel overly gimped in an infantry combat. In DUST, side arm weapons are decent in situations, but you really are very limited.
Halo goes the other way, for most vehicals, the primary gun on most players can do damage. Banshees and ghosts can be brought down quickly by concentraited small arms fire. This means players dont feel useless against a vehicle they jsut need to coordinate.
It comes down to this, right now vehicles are treated mainly as an intrusion on a seperate game. There isnt really a balanced interaction between infantry and vehicles. It doesnt feel like an integrated game balanced for the two play styles to interact. It feels like vehicles sit on top of infantry gameplay, and if you want to interact with them you have to step out of infantry gameplay and go play with the tanks.
TLDR:
If you want stronger tanks, AV builds either needs to be better against infantry or infantry builds need to be somewhat effective against tanks. The all or nothing of DUSTs AV makes it boring. What part of prototype AV versus standard tanks eludes you? I see AV grenades doing 3200 damage and up when I get destroyed by them.
You consider camping a nanohive with AV grenades to be legitimate AV, don't you? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4615
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Squadmates take note who has the anti vehicle weapons in your squad. Take note how they're generally ineffective against infantry. Escort them protect them help them get to their optimal kill spots since vehicles do move fast and AV needs to be placed in a position where they can hit even jeeps running away. |
WUT ANG
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
you only need lai dai, a nanohive and a few hills to one man army a hav i do it all the time. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yes av nades are effective against bad tanks. But a good tank with ANY squad support makes AV nades trivial cause you won't get in range long enough to throw more than 2.
And it's not about balance it's about fun. A guarentee you a majority of players have less fun using AV than standard infantry weapons. I'm saying make AV more fun. Or make small arms fire be able to contribute to AV. Not saying full damage but if a clip if my Scr or ar can drop 500-1000 health from a tank then you could have players work together to bring it down or hp the full AV players. It would be a more fun experience. You could then buff tanks a bit because players wouldn't hate them so much |
crazy6226
No-Mercy Get in the Van.
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Yes av nades are effective against bad tanks. But a good tank with ANY squad support makes AV nades trivial cause you won't get in range long enough to throw more than 2.
And it's not about balance it's about fun. A guarentee you a majority of players have less fun using AV than standard infantry weapons. I'm saying make AV more fun. Or make small arms fire be able to contribute to AV. Not saying full damage but if a clip if my Scr or ar can drop 500-1000 health from a tank then you could have players work together to bring it down or hp the full AV players. It would be a more fun experience. You could then buff tanks a bit because players wouldn't hate them so much
no just no |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
830
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
If only there was some kind of rapid fire sidearm that you could spec into in order to hold your own against infantry while lugging around a swarm launcher.
Sorry guys, you don't get to focus on the God GunGäó and kill vehicles at the same time. |
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BobThe843CakeMan
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Yes av nades are effective against bad tanks. But a good tank with ANY squad support makes AV nades trivial cause you won't get in range long enough to throw more than 2.
And it's not about balance it's about fun. A guarentee you a majority of players have less fun using AV than standard infantry weapons. I'm saying make AV more fun. Or make small arms fire be able to contribute to AV. Not saying full damage but if a clip if my Scr or ar can drop 500-1000 health from a tank then you could have players work together to bring it down or hp the full AV players. It would be a more fun experience. You could then buff tanks a bit because players wouldn't hate them so much then everyone will use AV and wat would tanks do. just NO. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1781
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Yes av nades are effective against bad tanks. But a good tank with ANY squad support makes AV nades trivial cause you won't get in range long enough to throw more than 2.
And it's not about balance it's about fun. A guarentee you a majority of players have less fun using AV than standard infantry weapons. I'm saying make AV more fun. Or make small arms fire be able to contribute to AV. Not saying full damage but if a clip if my Scr or ar can drop 500-1000 health from a tank then you could have players work together to bring it down or hp the full AV players. It would be a more fun experience. You could then buff tanks a bit because players wouldn't hate them so much That would be fun for the infantry, but not fun for the vehicle users. As it stands its possible to kill vehicles with small arms fire, the driver just needs to go afk for half the match. |
WUT ANG
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Knarf Black wrote:If only there was some kind of rapid fire sidearm that you could spec into in order to hold your own against infantry while lugging around a swarm launcher.
Sorry guys, you don't get to focus on the God GunGäó and kill vehicles at the same time.
ishhy sub machine gun |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:then everyone will use AV and wat would tanks do. just NO. I dont know? Be good at the game and kill people who actually have the ability to fight back?
So let me get this straight. Tank users are admitting they want to feast on a game where 90% of the population cant fight back against them? So what if 100% of the players have AV capabilities, 100% of the players have anti-infantry capability? Why would it suddenly break the game if players could actually fight back? A gameplay mechanic that relies on a majority of the players being unable to fight back is a broken mechanic.
Based on the replies here it seems this games balance relies on AV being so unattractive a play style and so un-fun that a majority of the players stay away from it. Because if a majority of the players had it, tanks would feel pointless? Am I getting this correct? Does that, logically, sound like a solid system? |
Human Anamoly
Planetary Response Organization
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Blowing up decent tanks with 2 Standard AV grenades and a Militia Swarm shot or two makes AV satisfying for me, and I'm not even specced into it. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1781
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:then everyone will use AV and wat would tanks do. just NO. I dont know? Be good at the game and kill people who actually have the ability to fight back? So let me get this straight. Tank users are admitting they want to feast on a game where 90% of the population cant fight back against them? So what if 100% of the players have AV capabilities, 100% of the players have anti-infantry capability? Why would it suddenly break the game if players could actually fight back? A gameplay mechanic that relies on a majority of the players being unable to fight back is a broken mechanic. Based on the replies here it seems this games balance relies on AV being so unattractive a play style and so un-fun that a majority of the players stay away from it. Because if a majority of the players had it, tanks would feel pointless? Am I getting this correct? Does that, logically, sound like a solid system? They can fight back, they have the weapons to fight back. All they have to is equip them and use them. The problem right now is that AV goes all the way up to proto level and vehicles don't leaving things very one sided, and is having to coordinate with another player or two in a team shooter to kill a tank really that bad? And I don't even use tanks I use dropships and LAV's. |
BobThe843CakeMan
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 18:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:then everyone will use AV and wat would tanks do. just NO. I dont know? Be good at the game and kill people who actually have the ability to fight back? So let me get this straight. Tank users are admitting they want to feast on a game where 90% of the population cant fight back against them? So what if 100% of the players have AV capabilities, 100% of the players have anti-infantry capability? Why would it suddenly break the game if players could actually fight back? A gameplay mechanic that relies on a majority of the players being unable to fight back is a broken mechanic. Based on the replies here it seems this games balance relies on AV being so unattractive a play style and so un-fun that a majority of the players stay away from it. Because if a majority of the players had it, tanks would feel pointless? Am I getting this correct? Does that, logically, sound like a solid system? trust me i am very good as infantry. i don't think u want me rocking proto gear pub stomping you.i use the tank because it's fun. or was fun. now av destroys me in seconds. BTW 100% of ppl do have av it's called milita. whether you want better AV or not is another story.
Edit: Sorry misread about fight ppl trying to kill me. you realize how hard it is to kill a person in proto gear running at you and dodging. it's pretty hard. have u tried it. or they are in the mountains or on top of buildings with forges and swarms. You guys even said AV is meant to kill u if everyone had AV all the time such as a infantry av weapon thing then vehicles would be obselete. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:They can fight back, they have the weapons to fight back. All they have to is equip them and use them
A majority of the players on the field do not use AV. I suggested making AV a bit more fun for infantry by increasing the anti-infantry ability a bit for AV. Tankers then complain that "no, then everyone would use AV and tanks would be pointless."
So the Tanker doesnt want AV on the field, they dont want the player to be able to fight back. They prefer a game where most players cant fight back. A suggestion, not to buff any AV capabiltiies, but to make AV more fun for the common user by reducing the anti-infantry limitations of them, is shot down by tankers.
An alternative suggestion of giving small arms fire a slightly bigger role in AV, by allowing them to actually widdle down the health a bit to support AV units, or in mass blobs, actually chase off a tank, is also rejected.
A majority of tankers dont want to fight AV, they dont want to fight anyone. They want to shoot targets who cant shoot back. If players can shoot back, suddenly "OMG tanks would be useless then!"
Literally, the response was that if you got a majority of players to use AV, tanks would be useless. I ask again, how is that a good balance? Isn't there a better scenario where both tanks and AV can have a role that isnt all or nothing?
Quote:i don't think u want me rocking proto gear pub stomping you.
OH noes! Bring the proto gear, since my gun can actually damage it, im sure I'll be fine :) |
BobThe843CakeMan
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:A majority of the players on the field do not use AV. I suggested making AV a bit more fun for infantry by increasing the anti-infantry ability a bit for AV. Tankers then complain that "no, then everyone would use AV and tanks would be pointless."
So the Tanker doesnt want AV on the field, they dont want the player to be able to fight back. They prefer a game where most players cant fight back. A suggestion, not to buff any AV capabiltiies, but to make AV more fun for the common user by reducing the anti-infantry limitations of them, is shot down by tankers.
An alternative suggestion of giving small arms fire a slightly bigger role in AV, by allowing them to actually widdle down the health a bit to support AV units, or in mass blobs, actually chase off a tank, is also rejected.
A majority of tankers dont want to fight AV, they dont want to fight anyone. They want to shoot targets who cant shoot back. If players can shoot back, suddenly "OMG tanks would be useless then!"
Literally, the response was that if you got a majority of players to use AV, tanks would be useless. I ask again, how is that a good balance? Isn't there a better scenario where both tanks and AV can have a role that isnt all or nothing? you want to know why. Because one AV person can destroy us easy. if everyone had it. hell there is no way a tank would survive 2 seconds on the field. just get GUD and get real AV. hell there's a respec get some if it's such a big problem to u. so if u want to kill tanks solo get av main weapons. want to kill vehicles as a group get AV nades. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Then perhaps AV gear needs to be slightly nerfed, but more appealing to play? You can't deny that right now its all or nothing. If folks bring out AV, apparently its an auto-win (which is being over-stated here, good Tank drivers still dominate a few dedicated AVers).
So the hope for tank drivers is nobody brings out AV otherwise they are auto-dead? Why is that a balance you support? Like, look through this thread, its tank drivers pretty much saying "If someone can fight back I automatically lose, so I dont want people to be able to fight back."
That sounds like a terrible experience from the tank side, I know its lame from the infantry side. |
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BobThe843CakeMan
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
327
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Then perhaps AV gear needs to be slightly nerfed, but more appealing to play? You can't deny that right now its all or nothing. If folks bring out AV, apparently its an auto-win (which is being over-stated here, good Tank drivers still dominate a few dedicated AVers).
So the hope for tank drivers is nobody brings out AV otherwise they are auto-dead? Why is that a balance you support? Like, look through this thread, its tank drivers pretty much saying "If someone can fight back I automatically lose, so I dont want people to be able to fight back."
That sounds like a terrible experience from the tank side, I know its lame from the infantry side. i never said tht. i said if u want to kill me get av. then u say lets make a gun tht can be equally effective tht can kill tanks easily and infantry. Tht weapon exsisted once. The swarm launcher. guess wat happened to it. no more dumb fire. Now wat is so hard about getting. AV nades. if u have a problem use those. and guess wat u still have a main weapon to kill infantry with. wat tank driver dominates good. AV tell me. i would love to know him/her. i'm sure if their were good av after said person he/her would die easily. |
Full Metal Kitten
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
504
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hey, Bones. Sorry to hear about your struggles.
New Eden is a rock, paper, scissors game. What you're describing is an arcade game. You're pissing in the wind to convince anyone otherwise. But I feel for ya, I really do. I too struggled, but it gets better.
I'm an AV guy myself, with a couple specialty fits for infantry and close quarters gun play as required. It's doable. When I roll with my swarms I'm carrying a Flaylock. This pistol is versatile and deadly. I can kill at range (especially from height advantage), up close, and if my aim is off I generally scare people away. Three shots to the chest kills a heavy.
I lone wolf more than I should, have a positive KDR, and generally enjoy myself. You can too. It takes a lot of patience and practice, and you have to analyze your mistakes and adapt to get better. FWIW I have never worn a single proto suit, but I've mowed down so many I couldn't even keep track. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
879
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
wow.
You took a good point, and then chopped it up and fed it to the pigs, OP.
Your justifications are bad, and you should feel bad. Small arms fire should be WORTHLESS against HAVs and Dropships. It's actually the whole purpose behind having, you know, armored vehicles.
There's nothing useful here except a rather scattered attempt to say "AV is underpowered, Buff it."
There's a fine line here, and you trotted merrily over it. Saying blanketly that AV is underpowered is false. I point you to Swarm Launchers that can stack Complex damage mods on 5 high slot dropsuits.
The only one I think MAY need a buff MIGHT be Forge Guns,and i won't even go there until I get my proto basic frames, the complex mods and proficiency 5 and start shooting at tank drivers who aren't completely incompetent at fitting and driving.
If you have a problem with the power of HAVs then go into your SP spending chart, find "Swarms" and put points into it. or spec heavy and Forge gun. If it's anything like chromosome the tanks Vs AV question will solve itself quickly then. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1782
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:A majority of the players on the field do not use AV. I suggested making AV a bit more fun for infantry by increasing the anti-infantry ability a bit for AV. Tankers then complain that "no, then everyone would use AV and tanks would be pointless."
So the Tanker doesnt want AV on the field, they dont want the player to be able to fight back. They prefer a game where most players cant fight back. A suggestion, not to buff any AV capabiltiies, but to make AV more fun for the common user by reducing the anti-infantry limitations of them, is shot down by tankers.
An alternative suggestion of giving small arms fire a slightly bigger role in AV, by allowing them to actually widdle down the health a bit to support AV units, or in mass blobs, actually chase off a tank, is also rejected.
A majority of tankers dont want to fight AV, they dont want to fight anyone. They want to shoot targets who cant shoot back. If players can shoot back, suddenly "OMG tanks would be useless then!"
Literally, the response was that if you got a majority of players to use AV, tanks would be useless. I ask again, how is that a good balance? Isn't there a better scenario where both tanks and AV can have a role that isnt all or nothing? you want to know why. Because one AV person can destroy us easy. if everyone had it. hell there is no way a tank would survive 2 seconds on the field. just get GUD and get real AV. hell there's a respec get some if it's such a big problem to u. so if u want to kill tanks solo get av main weapons. want to kill vehicles as a group get AV nades. This, lets give an example.
I run ADS, I have 2 aziotropic ward extenders, and a shield amp as my tank modules. On top of that I also have lv5 shield upgrades, this gives me a total ehp of just under 3500hp, 1 I repeat 1 isukone assault forge gun can kill me in 3 shots or less than 10 seconds from firing the first shot to the last one. Another example is a proto or advanced breach forge gun which can one shot pretty much everything but the tankless HAV's.
There is one very good reason that tanks don't want more people to spec into AV, and that's because AV kills them very quickly.
Another thing, it sounds like your balancing from pub matches which we all know are simply terrible for balancing because it seriously messes up how things are balanced in PC battles. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
See, you are saying "easily" I never said that. Ive suggested small arms fire doing a small amount of damage to tanks so that a blob of infantry may be able to chase a tank off or help AV destroy it. If 3 or 4 dudes firing a entire clip at a tank did as much damage as a standard proto shot, it would make the game play feel a TON less broken from the infantry side. Would that suddenly break tanks? I mean, if you are driving into an area surrounded by infantry who are free to shoot at you...you kinda deserve that punishment right?
On the flip side, I suggested AV should be a little less all or nothing, like BF. This doesnt mean AV gear that destroys infantry super easy. It maybe means slightly less powerful AV gear but that doesnt reduce the infantry effectiveness as much. This would get more people to be willing to use AV. Right now very few folks do.
I rock advanced, not proto, AV gear and Im usually the only one out there attacking tanks. I would like my team mates to be able to play a role in taking tanks down. You may say "well LOL go get proto" but I also rock advanced, not proto, anti-infantry weapons and do fine there. It shouldnt be a requirement that I get proto gear to battle tanks, it isnt a requirement to do so for any other class.
|
BobThe843CakeMan
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
327
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:See, you are saying "easily" I never said that. Ive suggested small arms fire doing a small amount of damage to tanks so that a blob of infantry may be able to chase a tank off or help AV destroy it. If 3 or 4 dudes firing a entire clip at a tank did as much damage as a standard proto shot, it would make the game play feel a TON less broken from the infantry side. Would that suddenly break tanks? I mean, if you are driving into an area surrounded by infantry who are free to shoot at you...you kinda deserve that punishment right?
On the flip side, I suggested AV should be a little less all or nothing, like BF. This doesnt mean AV gear that destroys infantry super easy. It maybe means slightly less powerful AV gear but that doesnt reduce the infantry effectiveness as much. This would get more people to be willing to use AV. Right now very few folks do.
I rock advanced, not proto, AV gear and Im usually the only one out there attacking tanks. I would like my team mates to be able to play a role in taking tanks down. You may say "well LOL go get proto" but I also rock advanced, not proto, anti-infantry weapons and do fine there. It shouldnt be a requirement that I get proto gear to battle tanks, it isnt a requirement to do so for any other class.
And the PC battle argument is silly because, PC battles have been around, what, a week? And a what, 3% of the DUST players participate in them? I get you need to be concious about PC battles when balancing, but you cant just ignore 97% of the players experience because you feel thats not the "real" game. 1. You know wat tht sidearm is called AV nades. r u dumb or something?
2. Called the plasma launcher. U see how useful tht thing is
3. advanced is good enough u need damage mods nuff said.
4. PC is wat it needs to be balanced by because thts the selling point of the game. pub matches r not the selling point. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
879
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
prototype forge gun + no one else AV means "I get the 200+ warpoints for the dead HAV" and my squad gets orbitals faster. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
1. You know wat tht sidearm is called AV nades. r u dumb or something? Lol yep. Im dumb. Or maybe good tank drivers dont "park" and shoot and allow AV nades to walk up to them? Yes, if a tank is dumb enough to stay still long enough for 4-5 AV nades to hit it, its an easy kill. But we shouldnt be balancing AV weapons off the absolute worst tank drivers.
2. Called the plasma launcher. U see how useful tht thing is the plasma launcher isnt REMOTELY AV. You can't hit AV with it at all. It is an anti infantry weapon that can sort of damage AV. Hell the mass driver is a better AV weapon than the plasma.
3. advanced is good enough u need damage mods nuff said. Eh, advanced swarms are not good enough. If a tank driver is decent, at all, you are lucky to get more then one volley to hit them. Forge is likely good enough. Ill likely be getting some points into standard glass cannon heavy with advanced forge soon. But it shouldnt be so restrictive to have a role in AV.
4. PC is wat it needs to be balanced by because thts the selling point of the game. pub matches r not the selling point. And PC has been out a week, and youve played how many PC matches? Suddenly anyone who's been in 2 or 3 PC matches knows whats up based on like an hour of PC? Lets at least wait a few months before trying to tag some fancy "I play PC" tag on ourselves... |
BobThe843CakeMan
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
327
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 19:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:1. You know wat tht sidearm is called AV nades. r u dumb or something? Lol yep. Im dumb. Or maybe good tank drivers dont "park" and shoot and allow AV nades to walk up to them? Yes, if a tank is dumb enough to stay still long enough for 4-5 AV nades to hit it, its an easy kill. But we shouldnt be balancing AV weapons off the absolute worst tank drivers.
2. Called the plasma launcher. U see how useful tht thing is the plasma launcher isnt REMOTELY AV. You can't hit AV with it at all. It is an anti infantry weapon that can sort of damage AV. Hell the mass driver is a better AV weapon than the plasma.
3. advanced is good enough u need damage mods nuff said. Eh, advanced swarms are not good enough. If a tank driver is decent, at all, you are lucky to get more then one volley to hit them. Forge is likely good enough. Ill likely be getting some points into standard glass cannon heavy with advanced forge soon. But it shouldnt be so restrictive to have a role in AV.
4. PC is wat it needs to be balanced by because thts the selling point of the game. pub matches r not the selling point. And PC has been out a week, and youve played how many PC matches? Suddenly anyone who's been in 2 or 3 PC matches knows whats up based on like an hour of PC? Lets at least wait a few months before trying to tag some fancy "I play PC" tag on ourselves... i'm done with u. 1 u have no idea wat u r talking about and 2 if u can't hit a tank with av nades then u suck in general. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
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Posted - 2013.05.24 19:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:See, you are saying "easily" I never said that. Ive suggested small arms fire doing a small amount of damage to tanks so that a blob of infantry may be able to chase a tank off or help AV destroy it. If 3 or 4 dudes firing a entire clip at a tank did as much damage as a standard proto shot, it would make the game play feel a TON less broken from the infantry side. Would that suddenly break tanks? I mean, if you are driving into an area surrounded by infantry who are free to shoot at you...you kinda deserve that punishment right?
On the flip side, I suggested AV should be a little less all or nothing, like BF. This doesnt mean AV gear that destroys infantry super easy. It maybe means slightly less powerful AV gear but that doesnt reduce the infantry effectiveness as much. This would get more people to be willing to use AV. Right now very few folks do.
I rock advanced, not proto, AV gear and Im usually the only one out there attacking tanks. I would like my team mates to be able to play a role in taking tanks down. You may say "well LOL go get proto" but I also rock advanced, not proto, anti-infantry weapons and do fine there. It shouldnt be a requirement that I get proto gear to battle tanks, it isnt a requirement to do so for any other class.
And the PC battle argument is silly because, PC battles have been around, what, a week? And a what, 3% of the DUST players participate in them? I get you need to be concious about PC battles when balancing, but you cant just ignore 97% of the players experience because you feel thats not the "real" game. The PC argument also applies to corp battles which when reintroduced will be a major part if the game, also as more districts open up more corps will be able to take land, more players will be involved in PC.
The AV situation changes radically in organized battles where everyone is using standard or advanced gear. And the whole point of the fitting menu is to allow you to have multiple roles you can use at any given time, it's like switching from medic to engineer in battlefield, you use the right tool for the right job.
Did you know that you can have up to 30 different fittings at once? That's 30 different roles/variations of roles. This isn't battlefield where you have classes where you can switch around a few things but still fulfill the exact same role, this is dust where you have to build each and every fit for one purpose. The game gives you a huge number of ways to fit your character but deliberately puts constraints on what you can fit, you have to compromise, you have to focus on one role. There is and never should be one fit that is capable of dealing with all situations, this game is all about specialization, and it rewards it. You can go wide and shallow in your SP layout and have access to several different roles but not be as effective in them, or you can go narrow and deep, and have one role you are very very good at.
If you want your friends to help you with AV, get them to drop the what? 40k sp to get a standard swarm launcher and put together a fit for it. |
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