DUST Search - Roadmap to make Dust a AAA-title

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

CCP's stated objective for Dust is to be a AAA shooter. I believe most of us agree that we are not there, yet - but many of us feel we can get there, me included. This thread is a community-driven effort to prioritize Dust development from the players' perspective to elevate Dust to AAA-titlehood.

There has been lots of progress since August when I joined the closed beta, but some of that progress has not been in the areas which I feel is critical or crucial to the success of Dust as an FPS and an MMO. Therefore I feel it is necessary for us to put everything in one place for easy reference for the Devs, and for the community to edit.

Dust must stand on its own as an FPS to be successful. That's what this thread is about. To outline the game design objectives and game mechanics needed for an AAA title.

In following posts my list - it is not meant to be exhaustive. I will review the comments, and add any that I have missed, and even ones I disagree with but which get enough Likes.

This is not a laundry list of all issues and suggestions: please only post high-level CRITICAL or CRUCIAL items, EVERYTHING ELSE belongs in other threads. Don't post your pet projects which don't impact the entire game or have to do with just a subset of players; I'd love to talk at length about how Scouts need TLC, but that belongs in EVERYTHING ELSE or as part of item balancing, balancing, balancing below.

Please don't post balancing issues unless they are gamebreaking or close to it. Balacing is too specific for this thread, and is an on-going effort.

Please post links to constructive threads discussing your suggestions, or on items listed below, so that I can add them.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Zlocha Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2013.05.25 11:51:00 - [31] - Quote Good thread OP +1. U mentioned pretty everything.
Khan Hun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2013.05.25 12:02:00 - [32] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: +1 Vote for TOTY (Thread of the year) CRITICAL: the aim, we don't want another KZ2 pls Yes for all that is good in new eden, fix the damn aiming! Problems: -Its inconsistent -It lags -Aiming down sights is to slow compared to aiming/looking normally -It 'feels' like stiring custard with a piece of cardboard.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 52	Posted - 2013.05.25 12:24:00 - [33] - Quote One point on this maps coming monthly - if that is dependent on the art team then lets get the suits and vehicles in first. If its just moving around assets on the huge maps (as some of the new maps look) then its doable but I would still say new maps every 2-3 months.
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 147	Posted - 2013.05.25 13:58:00 - [34] - Quote Bump
Rynoceros One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 76	Posted - 2013.05.25 14:07:00 - [35] - Quote OP summary: Start over. Keep the name so the sheep don't get lost along the way. Accurate.
Isaa Quade PROJECT 86 U 140	Posted - 2013.05.25 14:32:00 - [36] - Quote Probably been mentioned already, but polish aim and movement and release more varied game-modes before doing ANYTHING else. Mechs, jets, and other types of planets can wait (unless those planets include more game-modes of course)
thesupertman Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 33	Posted - 2013.05.25 15:38:00 - [37] - Quote PvE- will help new players learn how to play, and will keep the game interesting for Vets. Better balance: the dominant things right now are the TAC AR and the LAV. Imagine how for it would be if everything was fair. More vehicles. Buffed dropships. More interaction with EVE. 48 player battles: only if it doesn't cause lag.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.05.25 15:45:00 - [38] - Quote There is also the issue as to whether Dust is catering to EVE players branching out or FPS players coming in. The current setup with dropsuit fittings mirroring EVE fits is that the available modules are TOTALLY foreign to an FPS player. People who play CoD, Battlefield, Planetside are used to upgrade modules focused around the gun. EG: Sights, grips, magazines etc. The fact that every gun is a single unit with set stats and iron sights is just bizarre and very off-putting. Jimmy likes a red-dot sight, Johnny likes a chevron sight. Jacky likes an extended magazine, Joey prefers a stabiliser grip. Surely it would be possible to add module slots to the dropsuits that create these add-ons that are expected as no-brainers by FPS players.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 345	Posted - 2013.05.25 15:57:00 - [39] - Quote Although a higher FPS is good, it is not necessary. Plus, it usually makes worse lag. Just fix the frame dropping issues and current lag. The FPS is fine, in my opinion.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4655	Posted - 2013.05.25 19:53:00 - [40] - Quote and to think gun customization will come later.

Princeps Marcellus Expert Intervention Caldari State 26	Posted - 2013.05.25 20:29:00 - [41] - Quote +1 to all your posts, good sir, and best of luck to all of us in getting this thread read by CCP.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 382	Posted - 2013.05.25 20:45:00 - [42] - Quote Just wanted to point out that the basic FPS game play itself is distinct from how much of EVE CCP decides to incorporate into the game... also, there can certainly be different development teams working on different components -- meaning we can have development in multiple areas without the parts we want being neglected. I see people starting to get a bit antsy and worry about "their" stuff getting in or "us vs them" with respect to DUST vs EVE.
Carter Raynor The Generals EoN. 13	Posted - 2013.05.26 04:44:00 - [43] - Quote Super +1, great post OP. It would be nice to hear back from CCP what they're going to be balancing weapon wise soon ish (if they even are). I want ma plasma cannon buffed
Volgair The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 291	Posted - 2013.05.26 05:46:00 - [44] - Quote I can get behind the message of this thread, however one that should be added as crucial is the way character models interact with environmental elements. I do not just mean the poor collision detection on hills, or the many invisible walls that prevent smooth movement in specific areas, but the apparent and simply absurd friction that dead-stops model movement. I have never seen wall collision this unforgiving on an Unreal based game, i am not sure what causes this but the game would be better with this effect mitigated if not completely removed.
Princeps Marcellus Expert Intervention Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.05.26 10:43:00 - [45] - Quote FOR RATIONALISM! FOR REASON! Save balancing for after the game isn't broken!
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 604	Posted - 2013.05.26 11:14:00 - [46] - Quote I added aiming to the CRITICAL list due to several people reporting it. For me aiming issues are due to framerate drops, but it appears others have various problems with aiming. Please post more detail on what is wrong with aiming, or better yet, how to fix it! Khan Hun wrote: -Aiming down sights is to slow compared to aiming/looking normally I'm positive this is by design. Many FPSs which have aiming-down-sights (ie. zoomed-in view through a scope or similar contraption) slow down your turning speed while using it. This is to balance, and to make control easier. If zoomed-in view would have the same radial speed as shooting from the hip, it would be very hard to control. This issue multiplies the higher the zoom factor is. It makes sense, is a common FPS mechanic, and works well in the games using it I've played. Nevertheless, given the number of people reporting aiming issues, this might be part of them. If you think this is an issue, please post in comments!
S0LlD SNAKE PLAYSTATION4 55	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:00:00 - [47] - Quote AAA HA HA HA Remove AURUM
J Lav Opus Arcana Orion Empire 75	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:08:00 - [48] - Quote Personally, one of my critical issues of this game at the moment is how may people we've been running into, who can fire a Douvelle TAC faster than an HMG. I am hearing about kb/m exploits by running a mapped key, along with the mouse, or KB and DS3 controller etc... that leads to every shot firing 2-3 bullets. I assume this could be controlled by limiting mapping to 1 button, and limiting controls to kb/m OR DS3 and locking out modded controllers.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:11:00 - [49] - Quote S0LlD SNAKE wrote: AAA HA HA HA Remove AURUM Yes, and I say that as someone who has purchased my share of Merc Packs. Its a bit of an arms race, the Boosters in particular (its also hard to ignore that BPO suits for cash only give a fair advantage and not only when just starting out). I don't believe it will ever happen though, after the 'Monacle' debacle in EVE, CCP has obviously decided this will be their all out Pay to Win game that EVE was going to be before the revolt. If CCP allow better than Tier 1 BPO weapons and suits as Aurum purchases the game is history.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 390	Posted - 2013.05.26 12:56:00 - [50] - Quote The AUR isn't a problem. It allows you to test items before investing skills, if you want, and it can speed up your ability to max out your chosen skill path. Of course, you can certainly not take advantage of this. Does this confer some advantage? Of course. Boo hoo. However, it doesn't do a damned thing with respect to making you a good player.

Princeps Marcellus Expert Intervention Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.05.26 16:33:00 - [51] - Quote Bump. This thread needs more love (and attention, of course.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 607	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:11:00 - [52] - Quote Added "Exploits" to CRITICAL section. AWOXing and TARs are the current exploits requiring immediate attention.
XeroTheBigBoss TeamPlayers EoN. 375	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:21:00 - [53] - Quote A Anti Aircraft Artillery shooter?
XeroTheBigBoss TeamPlayers EoN. 375	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:23:00 - [54] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: CCP's stated objective for Dust is to be a AAA shooter. I believe most of us agree that we are not there, yet - but many of us feel we can get there, me included. This thread is a community-driven effort to prioritize Dust development from the players' perspective to elevate Dust to AAA-titlehood. There has been lots of progress since August when I joined the closed beta, but some of that progress has not been in the areas which I feel is critical or crucial to the success of Dust as an FPS and an MMO. Therefore I feel it is necessary for us to put everything in one place for easy reference for the Devs, and for the community to edit. Dust must stand on its own as an FPS to be successful. That's what this thread is about. To outline the game design objectives and game mechanics needed for an AAA title. In following posts my list - it is not meant to be exhaustive. I will review the comments, and add any that I have missed, and even ones I disagree with but which get enough Likes. This is not a laundry list of all issues and suggestions: please only post high-level CRITICAL or CRUCIAL items, EVERYTHING ELSE belongs in other threads. Don't post your pet projects which don't impact the entire game or have to do with just a subset of players; I'd love to talk at length about how Scouts need TLC, but that belongs in EVERYTHING ELSE or as part of item balancing, balancing, balancing below. Please don't post balancing issues unless they are gamebreaking or close to it. Balacing is too specific for this thread, and is an on-going effort. Please post links to constructive threads discussing your suggestions, or on items listed below, so that I can add them. I am trying to do my part in directing CCP to what I feel is the biggest problem of dust and that is the AIM! Support change! Yes YOU can! In this thread I have 2 developers looking for video proof of AR aim lag.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 611	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:29:00 - [55] - Quote XeroTheBigBoss wrote: I am trying to do my part in directing CCP to what I feel is the biggest problem of dust and that is the AIM! Support change! Yes YOU can! In this thread I have 2 developers looking for video proof of AR aim lag. Thanks, Boss - added to OP!
Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:32:00 - [56] - Quote Generally nice post +3 There are some point I would like to add Arramakaian Eka wrote: More game modes The conquest mode of BF have been a sole game mode ever since the first Battlefield game and every BF games after that. The only exception is BF3 that have two game mode in which both of them are capture the points of some sort. It worked well in BF and I believe it can work well here. It's not that I'm oppose to more game mode. I just don't think it's that high of priority. Playing skirmish can be fun if other issue have been fixed. Arramakaian Eka wrote: More maps I believe CCP have stated many time that they won't design the maps. They will generate them which they already do to certain extent. Buildings at objectives are randomized everytime we play. It's just that we stuck at 4-5 terrain. I hope CCP will hurry up and finish their map generator if they still plan to do so. We suppose to have tens of thousands map, one for each district. Just don't expect any fancy maps. Some random plains and hills with a random set of building is enough for me. At least, this will camping and hunting camper a lot more interesting. Arramakaian Eka wrote: Balancing, balancing, balancing I disagree on this one. CCP please don't waste time trying to balance an incomplete game. We need all the tool we got before we know if anything is OP or not. Don't try to balance standard tank against prototype forge gun. Either give us proto tank or simply remove proto AVs. Don't bother balance suits. give us all basic racial suits first (Light & Heavy) Which lead to my suggestion Finish all basic stuff in game please - all racial basic suits - all racial basic vehicle LAV, HAV, Dropship - all racial standard rifle, pistol, knife? - more heavy weapon, one for each race, 4 in total sound like a good number. I don't know why they bother with enforcer tank and assault dropship when all this stuff haven't been finished yet. And don't waste too much time balancing please it'll be messed up when these things come out anyway.
Allah's Snackbar Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:38:00 - [57] - Quote Princeps Marcellus wrote: FOR RATIONALISM! FOR REASON! Save balancing for after the game isn't broken! You're going to be in for an inordinate amount of time waiting for any balancing based on the current experience my friend.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 496	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:52:00 - [58] - Quote Yea Dust has problems I'd like to see fixed, but seriously can you guys quit asking for KB/M to get nerfed? It's ******* useless right now. Seriously. You can't even issue squad orders or grab equipment accurately on the radial menu because of how terrible the virtual analog emulator is. Which shouldn't even exist in the first place, just give us Raw input with the same turning speeds as controller users for gods sake. I don't go knocking you guys for playing with your derpfest controllers and waving your screen all over the place in a gunfight like Stevie Wonder jammin on his birthday, so don't knock my desire to actually hit my target. If anything, it's the third party controllers with turbo that need a serious nerf. I'm looking at you, TAC.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 613	Posted - 2013.05.27 11:34:00 - [59] - Quote Talruum Tezztarozza wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: Balancing, balancing, balancing I disagree on this one. CCP please don't waste time trying to balance an incomplete game. We need all the tool we got before we know if anything is OP or not. Don't try to balance standard tank against prototype forge gun. Either give us proto tank or simply remove proto AVs. Don't bother balance suits. give us all basic racial suits first (Light & Heavy) Which lead to my suggestion Finish all basic stuff in game please - all racial basic suits - all racial basic vehicle LAV, HAV, Dropship - all racial standard rifle, pistol, knife? - more heavy weapon, one for each race, 4 in total sound like a good number. I don't think you have really thought this through. First of all, Dust - like EVE - will always be an incomplete game. It will never be "done," and CCP will continue working on tweaks and expansions and builds for 10+ years if the game survives. Therefore we can't wait until the game is done for balancing to start. Even if we would wait for the milestones you mention to get introduced - racial basic suits, vehicles and weapons -, we'd be stuck with an imbalanced game for 2-3 builds; and the imbalances would only get worse as more stuff is added. That is 1-2 years of a wildly imbalanced game, something which I'm certain no one wants. Balancing needs to be an on-going effort, and it needs to continue from now on until the end of Dust.
Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:21:00 - [60] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Balancing needs to be an on-going effort, and it needs to continue from now on until the end of Dust. I don't think balancing should consume majority of CCP manpower to do so. We hardly get anything new during half a year of beta. Most of things we got was a nerf hammer swinging back and forth. This shouldn't be the case. While balancing needs to be an on-going effort, some issues can't be fixed by balancing. A standard tank won't be able to go against proto forge EVER. It shouldn't. HMG lacking range isn't the problem. It's that a heavy have no heavy mid(or long) range anti-infantry weapon. These things need to be fixed by adding new stuffs, not messing with existed one. I do believe that my suggestion is another bare minimum requirement for this game. It's called frigging basic suit for a reason. It's also way more easy to solve than eliminate lag and FPS issue. This mean it can be finished in a definite timeline, thus a more realistic roadmap. I don't think CCP released EVE with only Galante/Minmatar frigate and Amarr battleship, did they ? (If this is the case just tell me I will shut up at once ^^")



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