DUST Search - Roadmap to make Dust a AAA-title

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

I'd argue that most would agree with you, and so do I. That would be a properly balanced tank and FG. I'm not sure what you are trying to convey with that example.

Balancing and adding new stuff are not mutually exclusive; you can do both.

Dust's stated objective is a rock-paper-scissors mechanic. When Dust is properly balanced, TAR would not be the be-all end-all weapon it is right now, but just another weapon among many. In a properly balanced game there can be weapons which are superior at one application but vastly inferior at others - sniper rifle and nova knives being prime examples.

I agree that it would have been ideal to have a full suite of suits and weapons and vehicles available at launch. I also feel we should have launched with robust FPS mechanics in place.

But we are stuck with what we have, not what should be. What we have is that we lack both full set of racial gear and solid FPS mechanics. And choosing between those two, FPS mechanics must take precedence.


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Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:32:00 - [1] - Quote Generally nice post +3 There are some point I would like to add Arramakaian Eka wrote: More game modes The conquest mode of BF have been a sole game mode ever since the first Battlefield game and every BF games after that. The only exception is BF3 that have two game mode in which both of them are capture the points of some sort. It worked well in BF and I believe it can work well here. It's not that I'm oppose to more game mode. I just don't think it's that high of priority. Playing skirmish can be fun if other issue have been fixed. Arramakaian Eka wrote: More maps I believe CCP have stated many time that they won't design the maps. They will generate them which they already do to certain extent. Buildings at objectives are randomized everytime we play. It's just that we stuck at 4-5 terrain. I hope CCP will hurry up and finish their map generator if they still plan to do so. We suppose to have tens of thousands map, one for each district. Just don't expect any fancy maps. Some random plains and hills with a random set of building is enough for me. At least, this will camping and hunting camper a lot more interesting. Arramakaian Eka wrote: Balancing, balancing, balancing I disagree on this one. CCP please don't waste time trying to balance an incomplete game. We need all the tool we got before we know if anything is OP or not. Don't try to balance standard tank against prototype forge gun. Either give us proto tank or simply remove proto AVs. Don't bother balance suits. give us all basic racial suits first (Light & Heavy) Which lead to my suggestion Finish all basic stuff in game please - all racial basic suits - all racial basic vehicle LAV, HAV, Dropship - all racial standard rifle, pistol, knife? - more heavy weapon, one for each race, 4 in total sound like a good number. I don't know why they bother with enforcer tank and assault dropship when all this stuff haven't been finished yet. And don't waste too much time balancing please it'll be messed up when these things come out anyway.
Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:21:00 - [2] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Balancing needs to be an on-going effort, and it needs to continue from now on until the end of Dust. I don't think balancing should consume majority of CCP manpower to do so. We hardly get anything new during half a year of beta. Most of things we got was a nerf hammer swinging back and forth. This shouldn't be the case. While balancing needs to be an on-going effort, some issues can't be fixed by balancing. A standard tank won't be able to go against proto forge EVER. It shouldn't. HMG lacking range isn't the problem. It's that a heavy have no heavy mid(or long) range anti-infantry weapon. These things need to be fixed by adding new stuffs, not messing with existed one. I do believe that my suggestion is another bare minimum requirement for this game. It's called frigging basic suit for a reason. It's also way more easy to solve than eliminate lag and FPS issue. This mean it can be finished in a definite timeline, thus a more realistic roadmap. I don't think CCP released EVE with only Galante/Minmatar frigate and Amarr battleship, did they ? (If this is the case just tell me I will shut up at once ^^")
Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 13:44:00 - [3] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: I'd argue that most would agree with you, and so do I. That would be a properly balanced tank and FG. I'm not sure what you are trying to convey with that example. Balancing and adding new stuff are not mutually exclusive; you can do both. Dust's stated objective is a rock-paper-scissors mechanic. When Dust is properly balanced, TAR would not be the be-all end-all weapon it is right now, but just another weapon among many. In a properly balanced game there can be weapons which are superior at one application but vastly inferior at others - sniper rifle and nova knives being prime examples. I agree that it would have been ideal to have a full suite of suits and weapons and vehicles available at launch. I also feel we should have launched with robust FPS mechanics in place. But we are stuck with what we have, not what should be. What we have is that we lack both full set of racial gear and solid FPS mechanics. And choosing between those two, FPS mechanics must take precedence. Ah, I do try to convey that adding all basic stuffs should be as crucial as balancing the existing one and you should add it to your list along with balancing. they are not mutually exclusive, we agree with each other on this one. However, I do think we need a complete set of rock-paper-scissors first before we can start balancing stuffs. Yes, I know we aren't living in ideal world and resource is limited. That's why if I need to choose one over another I will choose finishing all stuffs over balancing stuffs that will need to be rebalanced sooner or later anyway. It's a waste of manpower. All things we discuss here should actually be done in closed beta, not after released. But what's done is done. I am not complain about that. I, however, still believe that Dust will benefit from finishing all this rock-paper-scissors ASAP. Unlike lag and frame rate issue, adding basic stuffs have definite solution and (relatively) definite timeline. It can be done in foreseen future. If you think waiting for them to finish it is too long, waiting for lag to be fixed and the end of dust will be upon us before it's fixed. I'm not saying lag shouldn't be fixed or should be leaved for later. I'm saying completing basic stuffs is way more easier and have a lot of gain.
Talruum Tezztarozza Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 132	Posted - 2013.05.27 14:52:00 - [4] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Not sure how you can make such assumptions unless you have insider information and are a game designer. For all we know Devs might have just the first draft graphics for suits and weapons, no place in the game, no stats, no playtesting, nothing. I have no idea how many man-hours all that would take. Just like I have no idea how many man-hours it would take to fix lag and framerate issues. Therefore discussing which one could come first is pointless. And that's largely irrelevant for the purposes of this thread. No, I don't have any insider information. I just based it on my experience as a programmer. While implementing new suit and weapon model is a time consuming process. I believe it's quite straight forward one. Network issue on the other hand usually tricky and more often than not you can't do anything about it. I'm certain CCP can do better than this but I doubt it will ever be eliminated simply due to laws of physics. Yes, It's just my assumption, my opinion. I can be wrong. I, however, believe that it's relevant to our discussion. When you prioritize things, you also need to considered time needed to finish it. I do agree, however, that we may not have enough information to make any intelligence guess so I will leave it at that. Arramakaian Eka wrote: I feel that fixing lag and framerate takes precedence over new suits and gear, and I bet most would agree. I appreciate these could be worked in parallel and are likely done by separate people. But this thread is about prioritization, and extra features belong under EVERYTHING ELSE. The game works fine without more suits and weapons, but doesn't without lag, framerate and balancing fixes. In fact, I'm not dispute over the important of lag and framerate issue. I just argue that balancing and mandatory stuffs (I wouldn't call it new) is inseparable. My bad for dragging these two issues together. When you make a rock-paper-scissors game, you need to add all three of them into the game first. If you have no scissors, there is no way you can balance rock and paper without breaking the very core of your game. You either turn a paper into another rock,turn it to rock throwing game, or you let paper players own rock players over and over until you add scissors. If you don't do it soon enough most rock players will leave. That is why I push for it.