DUST Search - And The FPS Comunity Finally Weighs in on Dust514...

2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:

GLiMPSE X wrote:

Is it really as bad as you make it sound?

*Depends on how you want to look at it

CCP is has a dev team of only 70 ppl trying to build a "AAA game" so they say no company in the history of modern FPS development has ever used such a small dev team.

Even Bohemia interactive has 200 employees, bungie had 350 and other companies use far far larger dev teams.

Really we cant say how good or bad they are doing with 70 guys but judging from turnaround and content output as well as QA of the builds itself I would say they are struggling yes.

But I am not a gaming consultant or a industry expert, they would be very good at telling you how a company was doing based of information gathered and analyzing the relevant data.

But I do know there team is not experienced in FPS production, and they have been working on this game since 2005 indicating many periods of development hell.

But I have no idea as to management inside the dev team or experience levels or moral.

But CCP has never struck me as a hard charging company.

It is clear that their prioritization needs work, and/or their dev team is stretched too thin. I'm working on a post on this.

I would be interested in helping you with any information gathering I could that you might need to flush out the details. contact me in game and we will find a decent way to link up.

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Surt gods end Demon Ronin 135	Posted - 2013.05.24 08:21:00 - [1] - Quote http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/dust-514 And there it is. From the critics and the users. Trust me dude, the eve cultists will still say they are all wrong I have no doubt. You like dust? So do I. But not as a FPS. The fps part of it is a mess. I like the building your gundam part of it. Someone once said that MMORPG are rated by potential. Well Dust 514 was rated as FPS. And as a FPS it caved.
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.24 08:28:00 - [2] - Quote Tell us something we don't know. The MMORPG side is fine, it's the FPS mechanics that need work. I could've told you that without citing biased game reviewers. But I guess you want to feel special.
Panther Alpha WarRavens 271	Posted - 2013.05.24 08:31:00 - [3] - Quote Expected .. Let ignore "Playstation Universe", for obvious reasons....The most balanced review is from Vandal Online with a 76 score. But even then, they also say what most critics seem to be agreeing with ; " There is a great foundation to start playing from, but we think the community and the content updates will determine the future of this game. " How many people is going to have to say it, before CCP gets the " hint ".
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 571	Posted - 2013.05.24 08:35:00 - [4] - Quote Dust will never be ready for prime time until CCP puts dust in the hands of experienced and capable and tested FPS designers. Instead CCP will continue to let this game slide by on its potential rather then hard work and ability. Its the rich talented kid in school, no matter how much money and time daddy feeds it it wont do anything till it gets off its ass and proves itself. And why would ccp fix a broken game that is probably making a nice chunk of change while being broken. CCP devs have 0 incentive to fix the game or make it better, from a dev standpoint they can keep dragging the game along while they suckle at their mothers teat. They need incentive and deadlines and the like, rather then the circle jerk of hand holding CCP currently uses as a business model.
GLiMPSE X Gigolos of the Interwebz 67	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:03:00 - [5] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Dust will never be ready for prime time until CCP puts dust in the hands of experienced and capable and tested FPS designers Instead CCP will continue to let this game slide by on its potential rather then hard work and ability. Its the rich talented kid in school, no matter how much money and time daddy feeds it it wont do anything till it gets off its ass and proves itself And why would ccp fix a broken game that is probably making a nice chunk of change while being broken CCP devs have 0 incentive to fix the game or make it better, from a dev standpoint they can keep dragging the game along while they suckle at their mothers teat They need incentive and deadlines and the like, rather then the circle jerk of hand holding CCP currently uses as a business model This game has gone from standing on its own merit to standing on EVE's merit Not that it could really stand on either Its like making a game sequel but not having to worry about messing it up Dust is a mini game for EVE. Is it really as bad as you make it sound?
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 178	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:06:00 - [6] - Quote It's come to the point where if they needed to shut the game down for several months in order to get the FPS mechanics working flawlessly, I'd be all for it. It's the foundation of this game, and just as in pretty much all aspects of life, you can't put anything on top of a wobbly foundation and expect it to work, no matter how well made it is. Dust is starting to feel like a game of whack-a-mole. Not only do more issues keep coming up, but the ones that have been dealt with continue to re-emerge. I'd like CCP to prove me wrong, and I feel sort of bad saying all this because I know they're trying and working really hard, but based on everything I've seen since I started playing, it just doesn't seem to be working.
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:09:00 - [7] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Dust is a mini game for EVE. Both games would have to have a valid, meaningful connection for Dust to even be a mini game for EVE. They already screwed the pooch on FW by making it no better than a pub match and PC is a giant middle finger to Dust/EVE alliances since you can just use a NPC orbital. Dust is more like a pilot spinoff to a EVE right now. Maybe it'll get better in the future, maybe it won't, but I'm tired of seeing placeholders for stuff that's still on the drawing board.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 89	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:18:00 - [8] - Quote Those reviews seem completely fair to me, I don't understand how people are associating bias with the scores. We're all here for the potential, let's be honest. Right now the interaction with EVE is minimal, the consequences of our battles are equally minimal, the FPS mechanics are not AAA standard and a lot of the game mechanics themselves are not up to scratch. All that being said, CCP is working on all of these things and I'm convinced they're in this for the long haul. Let's see what the new players are saying about the game in 3 months or 6 months time. If you've listened to the fanfest Dust514 talks you'll know that CCP have big plans. Also, don't forget E3 is right round the corner and the PS4 is launching later this year, so watch this space.
steadyhand amarr BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 596	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:19:00 - [9] - Quote Iv sadly burned out I'm tired of hearing what the devs are working on rather than seeing. All the new content only 10% of the player base will ever see. I played black ops 2 yesterday and had a lot of fun can't remember the last time I said that about dust :-(
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 577	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:22:00 - [10] - Quote Jenova's Witness wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Dust is a mini game for EVE. Both games would have to have a valid, meaningful connection for Dust to even be a mini game for EVE. They already screwed the pooch on FW by making it no better than a pub match and PC is a giant middle finger to Dust/EVE alliances since you can just use a NPC orbital. Dust is more like a pilot spinoff to a EVE right now. Maybe it'll get better in the future, maybe it won't, but I'm tired of seeing placeholders for stuff that's still on the drawing board. Yeah I was being a little generous.

RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 89	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:26:00 - [11] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Iv sadly burned out I'm tired of hearing what the devs are working on rather than seeing. All the new content only 10% of the player base will ever see. I played black ops 2 yesterday and had a lot of fun can't remember the last time I said that about dust :-( Take a break, keep racking up those passive SP and come back to us when you're ready? That's the good thing (I hope) about this game, it will keep getting better and we won't ever need to start again from the start like we do with every iteration of the other FPS.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 579	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:29:00 - [12] - Quote GLiMPSE X wrote: Is it really as bad as you make it sound? *Depends on how you want to look at it CCP is has a dev team of only 70 ppl trying to build a "AAA game" so they say no company in the history of modern FPS development has ever used such a small dev team. Even Bohemia interactive has 200 employees, bungie had 350 and other companies use far far larger dev teams. Really we cant say how good or bad they are doing with 70 guys but judging from turnaround and content output as well as QA of the builds itself I would say they are struggling yes. But I am not a gaming consultant or a industry expert, they would be very good at telling you how a company was doing based of information gathered and analyzing the relevant data. But I do know there team is not experienced in FPS production, and they have been working on this game since 2005 indicating many periods of development hell. But I have no idea as to management inside the dev team or experience levels or moral. But CCP has never struck me as a hard charging company.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 292	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:30:00 - [13] - Quote I am having fun still, i admit i only play 1-2 hours a day and only got 16k kills +- If you have 30-50k+ kills you obviously played too much as it will take me at least half a year to get there. Packing that much playtime into 4 months will cause burnout, no matter how fast they put content out, because content is always used up way faster then it can be made. Play less, play something else from time to time, work some on your Car like fit a new Turbo on it, go to the track have some fun...
Battle Android Trooper Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:31:00 - [14] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Iv sadly burned out I'm tired of hearing what the devs are working on rather than seeing. All the new content only 10% of the player base will ever see. I played black ops 2 yesterday and had a lot of fun can't remember the last time I said that about dust :-( This game is a mess right now. I play less and less. It has gotten to be a proto logi suit TAC Ar fest. The vehicles are a joke and the kill feed shows most people using the same gun. I am trying to hold on but there is only so much of this people are going to take before it is deleted and another game has taken its place.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1238	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:32:00 - [15] - Quote dust is still in beta, CCP rushed it out, I'm worried they will say nah it's fine and stop working on the core :/ They need to finish the content holes, fix PC and make it not dumb, attacking untill we lose for starters and fix the core fps gameplay. Oddly the fps gameplay was better before >.>
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 557	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:35:00 - [16] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: GLiMPSE X wrote: Is it really as bad as you make it sound? *Depends on how you want to look at it CCP is has a dev team of only 70 ppl trying to build a "AAA game" so they say no company in the history of modern FPS development has ever used such a small dev team. Even Bohemia interactive has 200 employees, bungie had 350 and other companies use far far larger dev teams. Really we cant say how good or bad they are doing with 70 guys but judging from turnaround and content output as well as QA of the builds itself I would say they are struggling yes. But I am not a gaming consultant or a industry expert, they would be very good at telling you how a company was doing based of information gathered and analyzing the relevant data. But I do know there team is not experienced in FPS production, and they have been working on this game since 2005 indicating many periods of development hell. But I have no idea as to management inside the dev team or experience levels or moral. But CCP has never struck me as a hard charging company. It is clear that their prioritization needs work, and/or their dev team is stretched too thin. I'm working on a post on this.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 582	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:46:00 - [17] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: GLiMPSE X wrote: Is it really as bad as you make it sound? *Depends on how you want to look at it CCP is has a dev team of only 70 ppl trying to build a "AAA game" so they say no company in the history of modern FPS development has ever used such a small dev team. Even Bohemia interactive has 200 employees, bungie had 350 and other companies use far far larger dev teams. Really we cant say how good or bad they are doing with 70 guys but judging from turnaround and content output as well as QA of the builds itself I would say they are struggling yes. But I am not a gaming consultant or a industry expert, they would be very good at telling you how a company was doing based of information gathered and analyzing the relevant data. But I do know there team is not experienced in FPS production, and they have been working on this game since 2005 indicating many periods of development hell. But I have no idea as to management inside the dev team or experience levels or moral. But CCP has never struck me as a hard charging company. It is clear that their prioritization needs work, and/or their dev team is stretched too thin. I'm working on a post on this. I would be interested in helping you with any information gathering I could that you might need to flush out the details. contact me in game and we will find a decent way to link up.

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 406	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:50:00 - [18] - Quote THEY'RE ALL WRONG!

DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 322	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:52:00 - [19] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Iv sadly burned out I'm tired of hearing what the devs are working on rather than seeing. All the new content only 10% of the player base will ever see. I played black ops 2 yesterday and had a lot of fun can't remember the last time I said that about dust :-( I went back to MW3 (with all it's lag and 'unbalance'), I,still had more fun :/
Calroon DeVil Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 25	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:59:00 - [20] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: GLiMPSE X wrote: Is it really as bad as you make it sound? *Depends on how you want to look at it CCP is has a dev team of only 70 ppl trying to build a "AAA game" so they say no company in the history of modern FPS development has ever used such a small dev team. Even Bohemia interactive has 200 employees, bungie had 350 and other companies use far far larger dev teams. Really we cant say how good or bad they are doing with 70 guys but judging from turnaround and content output as well as QA of the builds itself I would say they are struggling yes. But I am not a gaming consultant or a industry expert, they would be very good at telling you how a company was doing based of information gathered and analyzing the relevant data. But I do know there team is not experienced in FPS production, and they have been working on this game since 2005 indicating many periods of development hell. But I have no idea as to management inside the dev team or experience levels or moral. But CCP has never struck me as a hard charging company. It's pretty save to say that 70 people is the barely enough. The time it takes to fix, communicate and balance is a joke - but hey it's F2P right. People pump thousands of dollar/ euro into this, so why exactly would they care? 10 Years and they learned exactly what? Yea, figured as much.

J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 100	Posted - 2013.05.24 10:24:00 - [21] - Quote DUST 514: Worse than EVE Online.
Gauder Berwyck Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 252	Posted - 2013.05.24 10:49:00 - [22] - Quote Dust 514, crappy shooter but with more potential for awesomeness than all other shooters combined. I'm still here for a reason, but CCP should spend the next 3 months just ironing out the little but highly annoying bugs in the shooter part of the game.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.24 10:50:00 - [23] - Quote I'm pretty forgiving due to the connection to EVE, this game has unbelievable potential but really as an FPS right now, its a mess. 1) Whatever matchmaking system they are using is completely broken, half the matches are a team of 10 corporate voice-commed killers vs 2 guys + 12 afkers. 2) The basic netcode is as shaky as hell, half the time you're an accomplished killer, tomorrow you unload a full magazine into someone 10ft away to no affect. 3) Range on gunfire is unpredictable, I fire dead on target at a crouching sniper 30m away and not a single bullet lands. Am I out of range? Is the netcode acting up? Are the magical FPS fairies hating on me? Who knows? 4) Basic character movement is sketchy, getting stuck on steps, "falling" down 2 inch inclines, lack of smoothness in moving and general skittishness 5) Combined arms balance (air vs ground vs infantry) is getting there but still dodgy 6) Dropsuits are modelled on the EVE ship concept but don't really warrant or allow any significant variation. 7) Severe lack of modes, or even just maps (existing maps are OK though). They need to fix the basic FPS model first before adding all the fancy stuff, the bottom line is when you pick up a rifle to go and shoot stuff there are too many fundamental annoyances. The PS3 is capable of running big battles with smooth action, Killzone 2 worked just fine. Planetside 2 can run a server based game with 2000 players per map and 200 of em all in one spot. CCP shouldn't have too much trouble with a basic arena style map setup. I LOVE EVE and I really really want to love Dust but it just isn't in the neighborhood yet. I'm sorry to say I can go and have more basic fun with a simple rifle in CoD/Battlefield/Planetside/TF2 than I can here. If they fixed the simple FPS engine issues and netcode then I can wait patiently for the rest. I'll still play it out of CCP brand loyalty and because its a great and towering concept that deserves support but it won't be because its a viable FPS .... yet
IceStormers Forsaken Immortals Gentlemen's Agreement 28	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:14:00 - [24] - Quote There is so many features which have been rushed out, very little thought has been put into them First and formost you should not earn isk and skill points for turning up and doing poorly, no matter what happens you should have to earn the isk and SP, nothing should be given out for free when you have to earn your isk and SP, you want to take the best gear and you will bring your A game Faction Warfare FW should have required you to create a full team or squad before joining, let us build teams, its another good reason to be in a corp if your lucky enough to get a full team into one of the fights then its massively unfair We could have done anything with these fights to make them better than your standard pub, there needs to be a reason for the higher skills / geared players to move onto other areas and leave the pub games Could have been harder games due to them being full teams, if you had to earn your isk and Sp these could have been where the money is We could have them as assistance to PC where you could also earn clones for your Corp (if you win) you could even lose clones for your corp if you lose The possibilities are endless, CCP chose to make them the same as pubs - way to think outside the box PC This sounded like a great idea, this was the area where EvE pilots would get involved But right now there is little point in having that support up there, we still get NPC OB We dont get to even use that support if we dont earn enough points It should be on a timer say every 5 mins the game has an OB to use from Space, whoever controls the sat at the time gets to use it if requested from the ground I like the 24hour time period for Districts this was a good move, but we need more districts so Corps/alliances cant field their best team for every fight Game Progression There needs to be a natural progression in games, currently is all vs all with no reason to move away from Pub matches, this results in the game starting very hard and getting easier as time moves on - nothing changes In EvE think of how it works Missions You start of on LvL 1 missons, you run them till you have the skills (points or ability) to run lvl 2 and you work your way up, each time each more isk for this increased level of difficulty Ratting Start in .7 and work your way down to 0.0 as your skills etc increase you move onto earning more isk in a new area away from those who cant Dust needs this progression It could be done by Pubs > FW > PC It could be done by Systems Security rating (my personal preference) choose which fights you can survive just like mission running But all of this relies on not handing out isk and SP for just turning up - it would all be based on War points earned during the game this means if you cant earn any war points due to skill / gear you will go to a higher security system where you can earn points and isk If you earn loads of war points and find it easy you can move to a lower security system where you can earn better rewards, more isk as people are using better gear I can only see the AFKers be unhappy with this idea as it means they will have to play the game
steadyhand amarr BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 599	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:22:00 - [25] - Quote To offer some useful feedback. Iv played all week and gotten no were iv made an isk loss, had to deal with corp drama from two units and still weeks/months away from making any kind of useful advancement. I have 0 reward for logging in but punished when I dont. THERE IS POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT FOR PLAYING sorry for use of caps but this is how a feel their is no longer I reward for playing just a rat race to stay competitive
IceStormers Forsaken Immortals Gentlemen's Agreement 29	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:32:00 - [26] - Quote I dont really have issue with the overall FPS side yes it has balance issues, damage and range needs to be addressed on most weapons, we should not have weapons as OP as the tar, its not that hard to bring them inline it was quite obvious looking at the stats how silly that weapons was going to be For balance it might just be an idea to release all the stats for all the guns - add in what CCP want from each weapon then let the community give feedback on range and damage its missing racial variants - the place holder idea is great while we wait for models the netcode and performance is an issue, this needs to be address ASAP and they are doing so, lets just hope it gets fixed as this is the only real thing that kills FPS games, most real FPS players leave certain FPS games to find another as patch after patch causes lag the numbers currently playing Dust is a very good sign of how poor the netcode is, we all live with FOTM stuff, yes its boring but most games have a go to weapon Its funny to compare to other games on the market http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ I always compare with Steam numbers, thats only people playing on steam, and consoles have a much bigger target audience hence we are on ps3 i guess ratio is 10:1 iirc
Natu Nobilis BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 314	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:36:00 - [27] - Quote Everyone knows about the problem with the mechanics. No one denies it. *It will be* tweaked, adjusted, improved every expansion. If you-¦re not satisfied with the current gameplay, return when it-¦s better. It may take a long time. If you-¦re not satisfied with the current features, return when it-¦s better. It may take a long time. If you eventually return, don-¦t complain about SP gap between players.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 445	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:36:00 - [28] - Quote LOL at CoD thread. The game is good, I still have a lot of tun. You guys make it sound like its the worst piece of crap ever. Shame Shame on you. However I will admit that I work full time and have 2 kids so I space my playing time out. But I have never lost interest in Dust. The game is unoptimized and needs alot of patches and rethinks. but its not bad. So for awhile I'll let them figure out a way to suck money from my wallet while they work on the game. All you people should probably leave for a year and come back when you have finished playing and got bored with.... um.... Whatever FOTM FPS is out right now, oh wait.. that will be in like two weeks. Well go load up Skyrim or something.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 559	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:51:00 - [29] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: GLiMPSE X wrote: Is it really as bad as you make it sound? *Depends on how you want to look at it CCP is has a dev team of only 70 ppl trying to build a "AAA game" so they say no company in the history of modern FPS development has ever used such a small dev team. Even Bohemia interactive has 200 employees, bungie had 350 and other companies use far far larger dev teams. Really we cant say how good or bad they are doing with 70 guys but judging from turnaround and content output as well as QA of the builds itself I would say they are struggling yes. But I am not a gaming consultant or a industry expert, they would be very good at telling you how a company was doing based of information gathered and analyzing the relevant data. But I do know there team is not experienced in FPS production, and they have been working on this game since 2005 indicating many periods of development hell. But I have no idea as to management inside the dev team or experience levels or moral. But CCP has never struck me as a hard charging company. It is clear that their prioritization needs work, and/or their dev team is stretched too thin. I'm working on a post on this. I would be interested in helping you with any information gathering I could that you might need to flush out the details. contact me in game and we will find a decent way to link up. I would appreciate if you (and others!) could help by posting your suggestions here.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.24 12:05:00 - [30] - Quote IceStormers wrote: I dont really have issue with the overall FPS side yes it has balance issues, damage and range needs to be addressed on most weapons, we should not have weapons as OP as the tar, its not that hard to bring them inline it was quite obvious looking at the stats how silly that weapons was going to be The basic gun combat makes no sense though. I admit I've only just started playing but there seems to be very limited ballistics modelling (bullet drop, damage degradation, very basic cones of fires etc etc). The range of weapons is also ridiculous compared to any other FPS. It becomes a binary situation, you can see guys half way across the map but can only fight at knife fight ranges, you're usually either out of range or bunny-hopping around a guy at ranges where you can look up his nostrils. We don't want assault rifles that can act like sniper rifles but most other FPSs have a more smoothed out ballistics model where your gun's effectiveness degrades in a more complex and rational manner (and usually over longer distances). IMO optimal ranges could use a good 50% increase on almost every non-sniper weapon and max ranges could be doubled (heck even maybe tripled). Your mileage may vary.



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