DUST Search - And The FPS Comunity Finally Weighs in on Dust514...

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

Shion Typhon wrote:

The basic gun combat makes no sense though.

I admit I've only just started playing but there seems to be very limited ballistics modelling (bullet drop, damage degradation, very basic cones of fires etc etc).

The range of weapons is also ridiculous compared to any other FPS. It becomes a binary situation, you can see guys half way across the map but can only fight at knife fight ranges, you're usually either out of range or bunny-hopping around a guy at ranges where you can look up his nostrils. We don't want assault rifles that can act like sniper rifles but most other FPSs have a more smoothed out ballistics model where your gun's effectiveness degrades in a more complex and rational manner (and usually over longer distances).

IMO optimal ranges could use a good 50% increase on almost every non-sniper weapon and max ranges could be doubled (heck even maybe tripled). Your mileage may vary.

Ranges were longer in Chromosome (build prior to launch), and those made the gameplay worse. Everyone was mid-range sniping, you couldn't cover any open areas in a scout suit without getting torn to shreds, and Heavies mowed everyone down from 50+ meters. Current ranges are fine, they have brought the confrontations to shorter ranges so you're not shooting at pinkie-sized toons on the screen.

But I agree on the weapon damage drop. It's supposed to work so that the weapon does max damage up to optimal range, with drop off to max range, and some minimal damage beyond that. Currently there's a hard clip at max range, ie. you do zero damage at max range plus 1 meter. This is supposed to be fixed soon, if not already fixed (haven't checked).


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Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.24 10:50:00 - [1] - Quote I'm pretty forgiving due to the connection to EVE, this game has unbelievable potential but really as an FPS right now, its a mess. 1) Whatever matchmaking system they are using is completely broken, half the matches are a team of 10 corporate voice-commed killers vs 2 guys + 12 afkers. 2) The basic netcode is as shaky as hell, half the time you're an accomplished killer, tomorrow you unload a full magazine into someone 10ft away to no affect. 3) Range on gunfire is unpredictable, I fire dead on target at a crouching sniper 30m away and not a single bullet lands. Am I out of range? Is the netcode acting up? Are the magical FPS fairies hating on me? Who knows? 4) Basic character movement is sketchy, getting stuck on steps, "falling" down 2 inch inclines, lack of smoothness in moving and general skittishness 5) Combined arms balance (air vs ground vs infantry) is getting there but still dodgy 6) Dropsuits are modelled on the EVE ship concept but don't really warrant or allow any significant variation. 7) Severe lack of modes, or even just maps (existing maps are OK though). They need to fix the basic FPS model first before adding all the fancy stuff, the bottom line is when you pick up a rifle to go and shoot stuff there are too many fundamental annoyances. The PS3 is capable of running big battles with smooth action, Killzone 2 worked just fine. Planetside 2 can run a server based game with 2000 players per map and 200 of em all in one spot. CCP shouldn't have too much trouble with a basic arena style map setup. I LOVE EVE and I really really want to love Dust but it just isn't in the neighborhood yet. I'm sorry to say I can go and have more basic fun with a simple rifle in CoD/Battlefield/Planetside/TF2 than I can here. If they fixed the simple FPS engine issues and netcode then I can wait patiently for the rest. I'll still play it out of CCP brand loyalty and because its a great and towering concept that deserves support but it won't be because its a viable FPS .... yet
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.24 12:05:00 - [2] - Quote IceStormers wrote: I dont really have issue with the overall FPS side yes it has balance issues, damage and range needs to be addressed on most weapons, we should not have weapons as OP as the tar, its not that hard to bring them inline it was quite obvious looking at the stats how silly that weapons was going to be The basic gun combat makes no sense though. I admit I've only just started playing but there seems to be very limited ballistics modelling (bullet drop, damage degradation, very basic cones of fires etc etc). The range of weapons is also ridiculous compared to any other FPS. It becomes a binary situation, you can see guys half way across the map but can only fight at knife fight ranges, you're usually either out of range or bunny-hopping around a guy at ranges where you can look up his nostrils. We don't want assault rifles that can act like sniper rifles but most other FPSs have a more smoothed out ballistics model where your gun's effectiveness degrades in a more complex and rational manner (and usually over longer distances). IMO optimal ranges could use a good 50% increase on almost every non-sniper weapon and max ranges could be doubled (heck even maybe tripled). Your mileage may vary.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.05.24 14:47:00 - [3] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: The basic gun combat makes no sense though. I admit I've only just started playing but there seems to be very limited ballistics modelling (bullet drop, damage degradation, very basic cones of fires etc etc). The range of weapons is also ridiculous compared to any other FPS. It becomes a binary situation, you can see guys half way across the map but can only fight at knife fight ranges, you're usually either out of range or bunny-hopping around a guy at ranges where you can look up his nostrils. We don't want assault rifles that can act like sniper rifles but most other FPSs have a more smoothed out ballistics model where your gun's effectiveness degrades in a more complex and rational manner (and usually over longer distances). IMO optimal ranges could use a good 50% increase on almost every non-sniper weapon and max ranges could be doubled (heck even maybe tripled). Your mileage may vary. Ranges were longer in Chromosome (build prior to launch), and those made the gameplay worse. Everyone was mid-range sniping, you couldn't cover any open areas in a scout suit without getting torn to shreds, and Heavies mowed everyone down from 50+ meters. Current ranges are fine, they have brought the confrontations to shorter ranges so you're not shooting at pinkie-sized toons on the screen. But I agree on the weapon damage drop. It's supposed to work so that the weapon does max damage up to optimal range, with drop off to max range, and some minimal damage beyond that. Currently there's a hard clip at max range, ie. you do zero damage at max range plus 1 meter. This is supposed to be fixed soon, if not already fixed (haven't checked). I'll have to take your word on that having not played in beta, it just seems very either/or without much in between. The hard clip +1m thing is utterly disconcerting to any regular FPS player, at the very least in most FPS models you can still plink away with some limited damage in mid to long ranges. Even if optimal stayed at the way it is now, 60-70m is a VERY short range considering you can generally see that person coming from 500m away. Most FPS's have bloom so your cone of fire expands while on full auto to clamp down on long range spraying but if you crouch, aim-down-sights and do short squirts you can manage your COF & recoil to get in some hits. Dust just doesn't seem to have this sort of more complex mechanic (not to mention varying accuracy on movement). It seems to have COF, recoil and that's about it (other than crouching for sniper rifles). Either 100% of your bullets hit or none of them hit, much more binary than any other FPS I've played.