DUST Search - Why AWOXing is a Bad Corporation Move

Laheon wrote:

Rupture Reaperson wrote:

My bad on Iraq, however that doesnt translate as well into Dust or any fps, why? because one of the pillars of any fps to date it that is a "seek and destroy" game, unlike the taliban vs US conflict, where they are civilians war treaties, litigation against war crimes... etc. Do you go on dust and say "Oh I wont fire that clone, he might have kids" or do you see any civilian running around... or do you get a court marshall by firing some plasma rounds at someone? Of course not! You "seek and destroy" targets, no remorse no questions asked (in the case of awoxers that includes them as targets)

I understand that the taliban are able to grind the US balls with few militar effort and evict them, but at the same time they are able to use tools that are non existant in the context of a fps: civilians, war treaties, UN regulations, all that jazz. When on a FPS you just shoot the enemy on the face and thats the end of it Therefore if your corp its not able to accomplish to "seek and destroy" on a FPS, and have to rely on underhanded metods (even with said methods STILL lose), you will be looked down as weak.

Would on a future a corp can beat another one without firing a round, possibly. But it will be defined by ACTUAL metagame, not cheap acessible expliots.

@Laiheon: Yes I just ruled any argument you made with and ad homenem, get used to it. Im not willing to even waste time on you.

How narrow-minded and immature.

The problem with your argument is that DUST isn't meant to be a simple FPS. The best way it could be categorised is "war simulator" rather than "FPS". FPS implies that's all there is to do, shoot people. In DUST, however, you are able to choose your enemies. The only other game I've heard of being called a war simulator was actually Battlefield and ARMA, and that doesn't particularly have as many features (war wise) as DUST does.

In DUST, we are able to avert war (or conclude it) through means other than shooting other mercs. For example, making peace, creating an alliance or a contract, dissolving the other corporation/alliance through subterfuge, etc. This is much more involved than any other FPS that you might be able to name, and involves diplomacy and subterfuge just as much as gun game.

Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Schalac 17 Murderz for hire 160	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:49:00 - [61] - Quote Abu Stij wrote: You're saying that BETAmax not knowing how to successfully AWOX means AWOXing in general is a failure. That seems to counter what Grief U has been able to accomplish successfully. How did you come to the conclusion I was supporting the OP's claim when you didn't really read what I wrote? That seem's quite illogical. And nothing I said supported the OP's claim outside of "if you only look at it in military strength sure, but they found your weakness and used it to their advantage. They came out on top in the end, you didn't." which was only mentioned after the fact and is still true. AWOXing in general is failure. It is a failure on CCPs part for leaving such a gaping hole in the development of such an important aspect of the game. It is a failure in the fact that it is a one-off disposable asset that may or may not even work. And it is a failure because people like you think it is some super James Bond type ****. HEY GAIS I HAZ TOONZ IN DAY CORP FOR SPAM PC, LOLZ. The whole mechanic is just silly, and the fixes people are posting for it are even more so. If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 125	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:57:00 - [62] - Quote DS 10 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYzQGwMnzEM&feature=youtu.be If you think this video is about meta vs anti-meta, you should watch it again. I'm not against the metagame, so don't assume that just because I think AWOXing is overrated, I want the game to be Call of Duty. Jesus Christ. Sorry in advance for the language. I've been doing NyQuil shots with beer chasers for the past two days. I was kinda out of my mind. In this video I discuss why AWOXing is not effective for the long haul and is a technique with an overall negative outcome. And sorry to Jenza... Any input from you guys? Will you run against Iron Wolf Saber in the next council election?
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 605	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:57:00 - [63] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness. You're assuming that there aren't people doing that right now but just aren't advertising that fact.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 80	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:05:00 - [64] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: AWOXing in general is failure. It is a failure on CCPs part for leaving such a gaping hole in the development of such an important aspect of the game. It is a failure in the fact that it is a one-off disposable asset that may or may not even work. And it is a failure because people like you think it is some super James Bond type **. HEY GAIS I HAZ TOONZ IN DAY CORP FOR SPAM PC, LOLZ. The whole mechanic is just silly, and the fixes people are posting for it are even more so. If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness. It's been a thing CCP has regularly supported so its not a "failure" in that part, I will admit in its current form its fairly easy to do and not the most fun thing someone can spend their time doing. I did say, in a different thread I think, there are actually two forms of AWOXing not just the one people have only been exposed to. Jihadi You burn your alt by exposing who they are and just killing your targets indiscriminately without care for your alt's long term survival in the game's universe. As we're reliant on what we know about AWOXing from EVE, this is just a random guy doing random killing with no real intent or goal. At present this is the form you are seeing right now in DUST. Tackling** In reality this "Long Con" isn't actually an AWOX, its just simple intelligence gathering. In EVE, the second type of AWOX actually is when an alt toon tackling and immobilizing an expensive ship when the rest of the fleet are elsewhere and having his buddies come in and destroy those assets. There isn't really much like that in DUST so its hard to equate at present. What you're referring to is actually the simple act of intelligence gathering and manipulating your opponents long term. This is when your implanted toon collects data and so forth on the target and, as you stated your support of, cleaning corp assets of any valuables. I'm more than positive that the "Long Con" is being worked on as this is a fairly new discovery as to how the AWOXing works in DUST 514 (remember the need to do this is technically only 2 weeks old). Tackling is possible, but at present there has been no indication as to how you would achieve such a form of AWOXing. And no, its not the same as going Jihadi as in Tackling you have a specific target, where as going Jihadi simply is causing mass deaths in the quickest fashion without a target.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 125	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:06:00 - [65] - Quote Laheon wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness. You're assuming that there aren't people doing that right now but just aren't advertising that fact. I am pretty someone has an alt in my alliance right now for the sole purpose of keeping an eye on me because of the stuff i have written in these here forums. Is getting other Corps and alliances to waste resources in spying on you considered Meta?
Abu Stij Goonfeet 80	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:07:00 - [66] - Quote hooc order wrote: Will you run against Iron Wolf Saber in the next council election? Subtle. I like that.
Schalac 17 Murderz for hire 160	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:08:00 - [67] - Quote Laheon wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness. You're assuming that there aren't people doing that right now but just aren't advertising that fact. I know there are people doing just that, and I am not against it. I'll even support it. But what these other people are doing in PC matches right now, it's not even in the same vein. And the way they are celebrating it like it is some huge accomplishment just irks me. Oh I got onto a team and then shot them all, I'm so talented.... Give me a break.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 125	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:27:00 - [68] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Laheon wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness. You're assuming that there aren't people doing that right now but just aren't advertising that fact. I know there are people doing just that, and I am not against it. I'll even support it. But what these other people are doing in PC matches right now, it's not even in the same vein. And the way they are celebrating it like it is some huge accomplishment just irks me. Oh I got onto a team and then shot them all, I'm so talented.... Give me a break. Eh? It does not bother me so much as how it is all wrapped up with the Council. There are serious problems with DUST and the council is dicking around with this crap. DS 10 nailed it when he said this is an FPS and the focus should be on getting that FPS right. Yes there will be meta nothing wrong with meta but when our community reps focus on a broken game mechanic and try desperately to turn into some sort of super spy feature when they should be taking notes about actual broken FPS game mechanics then it just gets stupid. Also i think Dust needs more sand box features in it for real meta. AWOX is pretty weak sauce when CCP could actually make district infiltration and sabotage game play....which would you rather have...BetaMax clicking invites into a PC match or an FPS PvP stealth game? Hell i would rather have a virtual pub in local where people can play spy. Real good emergent meta can only really be good when we have a a real sand box with a crap ton of features. (go play PvP on a clan/seige based minecraft server and you will see real emergent Meta in a sandbox)..AWOX just feels like so much kludge and clicking on boxes.
Rhorian Darkstar Dark Force Katana General Tso's Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.05.22 23:12:00 - [69] - Quote Laheon wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: My bad on Iraq, however that doesnt translate as well into Dust or any fps, why? because one of the pillars of any fps to date it that is a "seek and destroy" game, unlike the taliban vs US conflict, where they are civilians war treaties, litigation against war crimes... etc. Do you go on dust and say "Oh I wont fire that clone, he might have kids" or do you see any civilian running around... or do you get a court marshall by firing some plasma rounds at someone? Of course not! You "seek and destroy" targets, no remorse no questions asked (in the case of awoxers that includes them as targets) I understand that the taliban are able to grind the US balls with few militar effort and evict them, but at the same time they are able to use tools that are non existant in the context of a fps: civilians, war treaties, UN regulations, all that jazz. When on a FPS you just shoot the enemy on the face and thats the end of it Therefore if your corp its not able to accomplish to "seek and destroy" on a FPS, and have to rely on underhanded metods (even with said methods STILL lose), you will be looked down as weak. Would on a future a corp can beat another one without firing a round, possibly. But it will be defined by ACTUAL metagame, not cheap acessible expliots. @Laiheon: Yes I just ruled any argument you made with and ad homenem, get used to it. Im not willing to even waste time on you. How narrow-minded and immature. The problem with your argument is that DUST isn't meant to be a simple FPS. The best way it could be categorised is "war simulator" rather than "FPS". FPS implies that's all there is to do, shoot people. In DUST, however, you are able to choose your enemies. The only other game I've heard of being called a war simulator was actually Battlefield and ARMA, and that doesn't particularly have as many features (war wise) as DUST does. In DUST, we are able to avert war (or conclude it) through means other than shooting other mercs. For example, making peace, creating an alliance or a contract, dissolving the other corporation/alliance through subterfuge, etc. This is much more involved than any other FPS that you might be able to name, and involves diplomacy and subterfuge just as much as gun game. add one more to simulator ^_^
Loss Tovas Defensores Doctrina 242	Posted - 2013.05.22 23:13:00 - [70] - Quote I keep reading "broken game mechanic" when people are referring to this. I imagine that CCP will have some kind of fix for this more than likely just being the ability to remove players from battle or making it an application kind of thing where you accept who is inbound into the battle. There will be a kind of fix but people are going to continue to exploit every facet of this game to bring themselves victory. Either way, the Taliban was brought up and I would like to point out that Afghanistan is understood to be the place empires go to die. There is a very good reason for this; there is both symmetrical and asymmetrical warfare. Every FPS I've ever played is based on symmetrical theories. It would seem those with the most experience with this are utterly baffled with the asymmetrical theories being applied currently as those individuals come across them. Perfect example: Grief Uni. It is important that when discussing things like strength and weakness that you recognize your own parameters. By all measure of force the US is superior to the Taliban and yet we find that that particular brand of strength means very little. Similarly as was brought up with the revolutionary war we see that the colonists fought like "savages" adopting the geruilla tactics utilized by the Native American nations they fought against. This led to all out killing of officers on the battlefield by what would become known as Rangers and was considered a war-crime at the time. This juxtaposition of real and fantasy lets us fully understand what is actually happening in New Eden currently from the mercenary perspective and I can tell you that all I see are individuals that hold on dearly to outdated methodology. Even if you are right about ethics, having the moral high ground doesn't mean you deserve to be the victor anymore than the people who are resorting to the most barbaric of tactics. There is no such thing as a just world ladies and gentlemen. The faster everyone realizes this the better off we will all be as a community.

Samahiel Goonfeet 31	Posted - 2013.05.22 23:16:00 - [71] - Quote hooc order wrote: It does not bother me so much as how it is all wrapped up with the Council. There are serious problems with DUST and the council is dicking around with this crap. DS 10 nailed it when he said this is an FPS and the focus should be on getting that FPS right. Yes there will be meta nothing wrong with meta but when our community reps focus on a broken game mechanic and try desperately to turn into some sort of super spy feature when they should be taking notes about actual broken FPS game mechanics then it just gets stupid. Also i think Dust needs more sand box features in it for real meta. AWOX is pretty weak sauce when CCP could actually make district infiltration and sabotage game play....which would you rather have...BetaMax clicking invites into a PC match or an FPS PvP stealth game? Hell i would rather have a virtual pub in local where people can play spy. Real good emergent meta can only really be good when we have a a real sand box with a crap ton of features. (go play PvP on a clan/seige based minecraft server and you will see real emergent Meta in a sandbox)..AWOX just feels like so much kludge and clicking on boxes. Note: for those thinking of laughing at Meta in minecraft PvP. On one server i was offered a cyber skype from a women (ie boobs) to give up my clan's base location. AWOX and EvE Meta seem weak in comparison to me. So... They should focus on fixing the FPS by taking a massive amount of dev time away and devoting it to non-fps enviroments and game types, and you can't figure out how to install skype and back room deal with the big boys so CCP has to make a scale mockup of the Mos Eisley Cantina for you since your sense of imagination and originality has been atrophied beyond recognition? I think the problem isn't the game, but that you're not actually playing it.
Aegis Scientiafide Molon Labe. League of Infamy 39	Posted - 2013.05.23 01:06:00 - [72] - Quote Laheon wrote: @Aegis... You will also find that The Mittani lost a lot of respect within the EVE community because of that incident, and had to step down from the CSM. Generalising a whole community like that is simply ridiculous, it's like saying all Americans are fat, all Chinese are good at maths, and all the English are hooligans. In any community, you'll get a range of people. Stereotyping for any other purpose than humor simply isn't acceptable. Frankly, no, it's not emotional manipulation. It's nothing personal either. An alliance wants to conquer the land that you currently own, but you're too strong for them. So the alliance sends in a spy to dissolve the alliance, and after a few months, manages. That's not on a personal level whatsoever. He's doing a job for material gain, not to hurt someone. As often stated in online games, it's not really material wealth. In the end, it's just a few kilobytes of data on a server somewhere. You effectively haven't lost anything but time, time which you were very happy to invest in the game. Any emotions that may have been hurt on the way simply aren't intentional, and if the person had actually been sensible, they would know not to trust someone on an online game who has the ability to ruin their whole experience. First off I wanna say I appreciate the civility. I know it may not seem like that after my response to charizard but civility is something I do genuinely appreciate. Anyway, I agree that it's unfair to label the entire eve community as being on par with that prick. That was not my intention in putting up that video. That was simply me showcasing the most disgusting product of "eve culture", taken at a high extreme (it seems charizard will tell you otherwise, afk miners are much worse). Although i will say that for me the most disturbing aspect of that video was not what he said or did, but the fact that pretty much everyone present laughed with him and was accepting of his actions. That, to me, is the main problem. And that's the thing, I think it's simply way too easy to spend a lot of time in that game with a lot of people who think alike, and not realize just how **** everyone is acting and how messed up it is. And just to clarify, I'm not a moralist prude or anything. I'm not trying to act holier than though, I'm imperfect just like everyone else (We've all had our moments). In all honesty I'm fine with a lot of things, and I'm actually not particularly judgmental. My attitude is people can do w/e they want as long as they're not causing any harm; however, in the case of "eve's culture" I'm not entirely sure that's true. Hence why I proclaimed eve's culture is **. The behavior in eve does not shock me nearly as much as the general acceptance of it (or respect and admiration it generates). I think I should clarify a few things about myself just so you can understand where I'm coming from. First, I typically hate most MMOs due to the mindless grind that usually accompanies them. When I play a game I enjoy a challenge. For that reason, most of the games I have played I tend to gravitate towards PvP (In fact most of the games I play usually involve a lot of strategy and thought). I'm also not one of those players who clings to a ridiculous standard of honor over what's fair or not fair, my attitude is if it's in the game you should expect to see it and learn to adapt. Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with backstabbing, sabotage, etc in games. The main problem I have with eve is the means with which this is all accomplished. Generally, in most games there's no personal connection involved whatsoever, and it's usually accomplished in a short period of time (usually within a few hours at most). In Eve it's different, the act usually involves gaining several people's trust, pretending to be their pal after months on end (even as long as a year if necessary). And the funny thing is, in a game like EVE you need to place your trust on people to effectively run a coorporation (the same can be said of any organization, including those in games). So naturally, the ones you place in positions of power are those that you have felt have earned your trust, probably those you consider to be your best online pals. Say what you will, but that type of emotional manipulation sounds pretty ** up. Anyway, I just highlighted spying because it's one of the more particularly messed up aspects of the game that's commonplace, but there are tons of things that go on in that game that are pretty ** (Which I'm convinced are highlighted as "features" by CCP as a way to simply avoid having to deal with it). It's a pretty toxic community. The thing is, though, I've enough experience in high-level MMO gameplay to know that this behavior is commonplace. What I find surprising is the general attitude towards all of this. While in pretty much every other game people who do ** like this are looked down on, Eve's the only game I know of that actually celebrates this.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Gentlemen's Agreement 125	Posted - 2013.05.23 01:18:00 - [73] - Quote Samahiel wrote: hooc order wrote: It does not bother me so much as how it is all wrapped up with the Council. There are serious problems with DUST and the council is dicking around with this crap. DS 10 nailed it when he said this is an FPS and the focus should be on getting that FPS right. Yes there will be meta nothing wrong with meta but when our community reps focus on a broken game mechanic and try desperately to turn into some sort of super spy feature when they should be taking notes about actual broken FPS game mechanics then it just gets stupid. Also i think Dust needs more sand box features in it for real meta. AWOX is pretty weak sauce when CCP could actually make district infiltration and sabotage game play....which would you rather have...BetaMax clicking invites into a PC match or an FPS PvP stealth game? Hell i would rather have a virtual pub in local where people can play spy. Real good emergent meta can only really be good when we have a a real sand box with a crap ton of features. (go play PvP on a clan/seige based minecraft server and you will see real emergent Meta in a sandbox)..AWOX just feels like so much kludge and clicking on boxes. Note: for those thinking of laughing at Meta in minecraft PvP. On one server i was offered a cyber skype from a women (ie boobs) to give up my clan's base location. AWOX and EvE Meta seem weak in comparison to me. So... They should focus on fixing the FPS by taking a massive amount of dev time away and devoting it to non-fps enviroments and game types, and you can't figure out how to install skype and back room deal with the big boys so CCP has to make a scale mockup of the Mos Eisley Cantina for you since your sense of imagination and originality has been atrophied beyond recognition? I think the problem isn't the game, but that you're not actually playing it. Perfect Golden Brilliance. This is exactly what i said and exactly what i mean. I should get you to write my posts for me.


Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page