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Why AWOXing is a Bad Corporation Move

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Abu Stij Goonfeet 56	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:19:00 - [1] - Quote So AWOXing makes you look weak? I'm a little confused, by that since its not on the AWOXer or the corp who initiated the AWOX at all who ends up looking weak. There are corps who have better regulations and prerequisites to join their ranks than those who have been AWOXed. The act of AWOXing is exploiting someone else's inability to adequately protect their assets and organization, which is actual weakness. You might be trying to imply that if you AWOX or your group supports AWOXing, you're "weak" (as the kids say) and aren't good at the game at all, but then again as many people have pointed out this is being played out in the metagame and caring about your KDR or leaderboard status matter not in that respect. The metagame is all about playing the people, not the game, into doing what you want and acting in a way you want them to start acting like. In this case its making people point fingers and try to disgrace others. In other cases there is the metagame goal of making people thing you're bring X items to the field of battle, and ultimately when you both engage they realize they're poorly underprepared as you brough Y items. You can also say that manipulating the market is part of the metagame and is a completely different. You're just expressing an immense ignorance to the matter and putting up in the guise of "well if you AWOX you're just bad at the game." when, in actuality, CCP has a long history of making games where having a metagame is far more important than winning a handful of battles. Look at the HBC, it got taken down due to political turmoil caused by ProGodLegend (of N3 & Nulli Secunda) insulting Sort Dragons girlfriend. That act caused Sort to go on a fit and threaten TEST, who then promptly left the HBC and took the largest alliance in that Coalition with them, making the Sort Dragon/HBC vs PGL/N3 war be over with without a single shot fired. That's the sort of game CCP makes, if you're not capable of comprehending, or willing to partake in it, you may want to play a different game since this sort of thing will continue to grow and more than just simple AWOXing will take place.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 56	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:25:00 - [2] - Quote RedRebelCork wrote: I don't buy this 'culture shock' argument. CCP failed to foresee an obvious exploit in the corporate battle game mechanics. There's no parallel in the EVE universe for the result that I know of. The spying and manipulation that is part of EVE is intriguing and exciting to read about. It's what made me try EVE in the first place. I strongly doubt anyone reading about this broken game mechanic is going to enticed into playing Dust514. If the tables were reversed somehow and EVE players were experiencing a new game mechanic where any member of their corporation no matter how lowly could lock down or vanish 1/4 of their fleet at any critical engagement without any effort required I reckon the players of EVE would have some culture shock of their own. That's actually what AWOXing is like in EVE. In EVE you have, technically, two sorts of AWOXing. 1) Jihadi AWOXing is where you simply just start shooting random people in your fleet because you are, in fact, not friendly to them whatsoever. 2) The other is being in a phobos/hic (certain ship type) and tackling (locking down) an expensive blue ship while also cynoing (warping in to a specific point, not a stargate) in your buddies super carrier (big ship) to haze the victim or hold him for ransom, sometimes still resulting in their death.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 59	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:42:00 - [3] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Good Lord. AWOXing does make your corp look weak. You're doing it to gain a severe advantage that can't be countered. That's what makes you look weak. Forget all the meta game BS for one second. Showing the necessity to have an unfair advantage makes it look like you can't win a fight straight up. This is what many people would refer to as "E-Bushido" or "E-Honor", this game and universe isn't about winning in a head on head fair fight. CCP has routinely shown that they are far more interested in making it so that players have the tools to take advantage of their enemies regardless the weakness. This isn't a bad thing whatsoever, plenty of real life armies do this to great success and has been a staple of various militaries for centuries. You can't really ignore the metagame "bs" since as previously stated, its part of the world CCP has made in New Eden. If you're afraid to deal with a game that has a metagame on top of its basic gameplay, please go find something more simple. When you use a tactic the other team can't counter initially, it doesn't mean the attacking team is "weak" it means they've used a new strategy that has enhanced the "game" and made things more challenging for everyone. Go read Ender's Game and you'll see the more you change and adapt how you attack your enemy, the less and less your enemy can defend themselves. This is why you have things like espionage both in games like EVE and in the real world. The more you add to how you approach the battle you get more people following those tactics, whether consciously or subsconsciously, for their own uses and the game actually grows and takes a life of its own. Having a vanilla "we only face each other head on" gets dull and repetitive and isn't at all what DUST was intended to be like. If you're of the opinion espionage and AWOXing is cheating to win, then you'll be in for a rude awakening later down the line as EVE & DUST are integrated more and more. This would include market manipulation, and more. It's not cheating to win, when you're literally given the tools and you're the first to figure it out, if that were the case the USA wouldn't have won the American Revolution because they didn't face the British Empire in open combat.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 61	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:24:00 - [4] - Quote You can also refer to the Mujahideen in the 1970s (precursor to the Taliban) that did the exact same thing against the Soviet Union.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 78	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:13:00 - [5] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Those were all the weaker factions in the war. So what was your point again? EDIT: As a side note, the clans using "AWOXing" are horrible shots and seriously lack battlefield presence. Most of them rely on proto gear and SP to make up for this fact and will fall off rather quickly in the grand scheme of things. And why do goons even think they are relevant in DUST? I guess you only look at the term "weak" in terms of military strength, where as using techniques such as AWOXing or implanting a spy to then take all your opponents assets is quite powerful and shows the utter weakness their enemies. I've yet to see any evidence that people in Grief U actually using Proto fits, but if the other groups are it just shows they're not that skilled at it. Also I was unaware of any Goon claiming they've done anything relevant in DUST as of yet, can you point out a source? The only posts I've seen by my fellow SA members has been to: - Mock pubbies for horribly bad ideas - Mock pubbies for crying about "broken" mechanics when they work as intended - Laugh at the crying over AWOXing - Correct horrible grammar mistakes - Provide counterpoints to any discussion that isn't pure whining - Give entertaining erotica stories for your reading - Explaining the "complex" concept of what a meta-game is & how it works in a CCP game But if you want to talk in terms of "playing" DUST 514, I guess I could say all good things come with time, we're not going anywhere soon, but you can keep pounding your chest over our space in LowSec, we'll be doing what Goons do best, making you look like foolish. Abu Stij Pubbie Relations Officer Director of Planet/Space Relations Loremaster of GoonFeet Veteran of Caldari Prime Survivor of Cerebral Wolf's Leadership Defector of Immobile Infantry OpFor Veteran of AWOXgate Heir Apparent of the Sojik Trading Empire Recepient of "I Like You" Comment from The Mittani (2013) Commissioner of GoonFeet Media Network Propaganda Master Oft Imitated, Never Duplicated Breeder of Sebiestor Turtles Master of the Trial of War Dustradomas Uplink Destroyer Defender of the Goonish Lifestyle Medical Doctor of Anatomy from Sebiestor State College (Go Irish!) Hero of Forums Drinker of Tears Vanquisher of Horrible Grammar Friend to All Tetatae Rocker of Hurricanes The Most Awful of Somethings (Paying to Win Since 2012) Survivor of the MechWarrior Online Podcast War Player of The Board of Keys Tracker Extraordinaire RIP Vile Rat
Abu Stij Goonfeet 79	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:21:00 - [6] - Quote Laheon wrote: Abu, I'm grudgingly giving you a +1 for that post. Is it because I'm pretty?
Abu Stij Goonfeet 80	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:32:00 - [7] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Except one of the most notable examples of AWOX in DUST was a complete failure. Let me make a timeline for your simple mind to understand. OP said you are weak if you need to AWOX. A bunch of people were mentioned, proving the OPs point. Abu Stij wrote a long winded post that I didn't care to really read because in fighting against the OP he supported the OPs claim. Any questions? You're saying that BETAmax not knowing how to successfully AWOX means AWOXing in general is a failure. That seems to counter what Grief U has been able to accomplish successfully, I believe they're success rate is 100% according to reports. How did you come to the conclusion I was supporting the OP's claim when you didn't really read what I wrote? That seem's quite illogical. And nothing I said supported the OP's claim outside of "if you only look at it in military strength sure, but they found your weakness and used it to their advantage. They came out on top in the end, you didn't." which was only mentioned after the fact and is still true. Honestly, are you trying to act dumb or does it come naturally? Abu Stij Pubbie Relations Officer Director of Planet/Space Relations Loremaster of GoonFeet Veteran of Caldari Prime Survivor of Cerebral Wolf's Leadership Defector of Immobile Infantry Heir Apparent of the Sojik Trading Empire Recepient of "I Like You" Comment from The Mittani (2013) Commissioner of GoonFeet Media Network Propaganda Master Oft Imitated, Never Duplicated Breeder of Sebiestor Turtles Master of the Trial of War Dustradomas Uplink Destroyer Defender of the Goonish Lifestyle Medical Doctor of Anatomy from Sebiestor State College (Go Irish!) Hero of Forums Drinker of Tears Vanquisher of Horrible Grammar Friend to All Tetatae Rocker of Hurricanes The Most Awful of Somethings (Paying to Win Since 2012) Survivor of the MechWarrior Online Podcast War Player of The Board of Keys Tracker Extraordinaire RIP Vile Rat
Abu Stij Goonfeet 80	Posted - 2013.05.22 21:41:00 - [8] - Quote Phantomnom wrote: AWOXing isn't a culture shock it's a wasted opportunity, Done by kids who run to forums within ten minutes of turning a corp over screaming about how megaleetz they are. People thinking too small. While it is true you can burn your "plant" in the target (as evident by the first reported AWOX by Model Number), I'm sure there are ways to do it without exposing the name of the spy you planted into the corp.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 80	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:05:00 - [9] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: AWOXing in general is failure. It is a failure on CCPs part for leaving such a gaping hole in the development of such an important aspect of the game. It is a failure in the fact that it is a one-off disposable asset that may or may not even work. And it is a failure because people like you think it is some super James Bond type **. HEY GAIS I HAZ TOONZ IN DAY CORP FOR SPAM PC, LOLZ. The whole mechanic is just silly, and the fixes people are posting for it are even more so. If you want to AWOX do it right. Actually infiltrate a group and steal intel, gain directorship and clean them out. Kick everyone from corp before a PC match. Clean the corp account. Steal clone reserves and plant them on your side. Just joining a PC match and talking smack and team killing is petty HALO bs. I attribute it to getting a full Warthog and driving it off a cliff. There is no emergent gameplay here. There is no amazing tactics involved. Just petty silliness. It's been a thing CCP has regularly supported so its not a "failure" in that part, I will admit in its current form its fairly easy to do and not the most fun thing someone can spend their time doing. I did say, in a different thread I think, there are actually two forms of AWOXing not just the one people have only been exposed to. Jihadi You burn your alt by exposing who they are and just killing your targets indiscriminately without care for your alt's long term survival in the game's universe. As we're reliant on what we know about AWOXing from EVE, this is just a random guy doing random killing with no real intent or goal. At present this is the form you are seeing right now in DUST. Tackling** In reality this "Long Con" isn't actually an AWOX, its just simple intelligence gathering. In EVE, the second type of AWOX actually is when an alt toon tackling and immobilizing an expensive ship when the rest of the fleet are elsewhere and having his buddies come in and destroy those assets. There isn't really much like that in DUST so its hard to equate at present. What you're referring to is actually the simple act of intelligence gathering and manipulating your opponents long term. This is when your implanted toon collects data and so forth on the target and, as you stated your support of, cleaning corp assets of any valuables. I'm more than positive that the "Long Con" is being worked on as this is a fairly new discovery as to how the AWOXing works in DUST 514 (remember the need to do this is technically only 2 weeks old). Tackling is possible, but at present there has been no indication as to how you would achieve such a form of AWOXing. And no, its not the same as going Jihadi as in Tackling you have a specific target, where as going Jihadi simply is causing mass deaths in the quickest fashion without a target.
Abu Stij Goonfeet 80	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:07:00 - [10] - Quote hooc order wrote: Will you run against Iron Wolf Saber in the next council election? Subtle. I like that.

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