Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

I will start off with talking quickly about awoxing and currently what is broken about it. AWOXing I think will be a valuable feature in this game. Slowly growing the trust of a corp or alliance and gaining rights and privy to information. It is sabotage at its heart. So what is the problem currently. People are able to AWOX with out the gained trust. Anyone in a corp can join CBs and Pull in anyone they want. One of CCPs first major gamplay mechanics to make our wins and losses mean something. As any bigger corp is noticing it is impossible to hold that atmosphere because anyone can join your PC battles and anyone can bring squads into your PC battle if they are in your corp. Hellstorm is a perfect example they had to rip their corp into two and put all of their new or more unknown players into a separate corp. This is hurting the corp, goals, and plans for the future.

I understand people are going to participate in this type of gameplay as long as it stays this easy to do.

The problem comes is that CPM member(s) are participating in such a gameplay mechanic that is knownly destroying corps or destroying the enjoyment of PC engagement of corps.

These are members of the community you forced us to have as representatives on CPM. They play a big part on influences of the future of the game. And yet you have members you picked are actively using a mechanic in that is in the game to abuse PC. Their is even video of one of them doing it.

So my question is CCP are you going to take action. Fix this problem. And maybe have major consequences for CPM members who are actively abusing this broken mechanic.

This thread is not about pointing at CPM members or linking videos. I just want CCP to realize that this is a major issue and CPM member(s) are taking advantage of it. Hopefully hear their viewpoint also

So shsare you veiwpoint and thoughts, but do not point fingers.

awoxing is absolutely too easy but shouldnt be impossible. Thats why im suggesting a role that is attached to being able to join corp matches, that way if the CEO/director trusts the wrong person, they only have themselves to blame

awoxing is absolutely too easy but shouldnt be impossible. Thats why im suggesting a role that is attached to being able to join corp matches, that way if the CEO/director trusts the wrong person, they only have themselves to blame

Hey,

We agree there needs to be a way for the CEO and directors of a corporation to control who is in a match. We won't be brining any changes to this for Uprising, but we are looking at things we can do after Uprising at some point. We are currently thinking of adding the ability to kick people from the match if you are a CEO or Director.

For now, make sure people joining your corporation understand that they shouldn't be joining these matches unless told to do so. Not the greatest solution, but we are aware and looking at solutions. :)

Anyone else find it strange that the Imperfects are now upset about a broken game mechanic being abused? When it was them AFKing, they were all "blame CCP, we are just using the mechanics given to us" or "HTFU". Not saying OP is guilty of either, just think it is funny that they care so much now. Maybe because this could actually negatively effect them? Funny, because their AFKing negatively effected others in the community. Anyways, my neckbeard itches, I'm off to rub one out in my basement.

say what you want, but having one of 6 players from the community being a representative of that community, participating in what is obviously a broken mechanic (and even admitted by themselves) and then going on taking a bath (congrats, its about time) in the tears of all those crying about it, is simply wrong and unjust.

Frankly, if you take people into PC that you can't trust implicitly, you're playing the game wrong.

honestly? no

regardless of my or yours or anyone else's opinions of IMPs and many of their members that rightfully deserve to be taken to the woodshed and beaten with a stick(or in some cases HAVE)... they have integrity, which that alone commands the respect of a competitive gamer.

They don't hide behind anything, they don't run around behind you and play grab ass and try to butter you up to do something to you or your corp/team to gain a competitive edge. They simply tell you they are better than you, and then back it up on the battlefield, which is the ONLY place that matters.

AFKing was popular when the game grew stale, the same 4 or 5 maps over and over, with the only other option being 8v8 CBs that didn't award SP, loot or anything else aside from bragging rights. no I don't and have never condoned it, but also it never affected myself or my team.. hanging your hopes on a skirmish pub match where stats never recorded isn't a strong argument for it negatively affecting others...

plus.. the whole AFK thing.. have u done a PC match with AFKers? have you had a CB before with AFKers?

didn't think so....

Me thinks you making things up that's going on helps your argument none.

No corp was taking un-trusted people. It didn't matter - all you need is an alt - know when the timer for PC is on - then hijack it as the squads get ready to enter.

Other corps will be feeling this burn very soon. If CCP isn't hurrying with a fix - we may as well break this game completely until they do.

Hence my edit

However, if you're accepting recruits with under 2m SP into a corp that WANTS to do PC, without a proper vetting process or going through a recruitment corp, then you're slightly naive regarding New Eden and this has been a horrid wake-up call to you.

Why 2m SP? Cause it takes a couple of weeks of dedication and constant playing OFF your main to get up to that. Reduces the likelihood that you're a spy.

If you're a top corp and accepting anything less than that... Well. You're probably just trying to boost numbers, aren't ya?

I have over 7 alts with over 2 mil SP from sitting on passive SP gain since january.

I have over 7 alts with over 2 mil SP from sitting on passive SP gain since january.

Cry Moar... Tears are delicious.

They already said they're going to make it harder.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=833365#post833365



Punishing CPM members involved would be stupid since they're just using the game mechanics CCP put in place.

Thats like saying we shouldnt punish a bank robber because the bank left the vault unlocked.

awoxing is absolutely too easy but shouldnt be impossible. Thats why im suggesting a role that is attached to being able to join corp matches, that way if the CEO/director trusts the wrong person, they only have themselves to blame

By that logic we should all still be flying the MCC every match to get free SP's and ISK.
Let's all abuse every broken mechanic until CCP gets around to fixing it, because that's the way to ensure DUST succeeds.

Yeah...


I guess I'll go order my modded controller because CCP has nobody but themselves to blame if they leave the RoF up so high on the TAC AR. Who cares what it does to the game?

Looks like you guys still have a _LOT_ to learn about proper vetting.

Just a hint for you bad players that are trying to run 'Real Corporations' in the My Little Pony-land of EVE; when recruiting, check employment history of the DUST merc using the EVE client, note the age of the character and calculate how much passive SP vs active SP he's accrued.

And continue playing the herp a derp game like n00bs.

Thats like saying we shouldnt punish a bank robber because the bank left the vault unlocked.

What? You act like I'm not using these alts to test things - they'd learn NOTHING by checking history. Some are already in corps and are considered 'helpful.' Lol

You scrubs who think you have some special right to be smarter then everyone else make me smile.

Do you have full passive training plus reasonable (half of max and up) active for the time the characters have existed?

Also congrats on getting them into corps and being 'helpful', I'm sure they were some serious clans from COD or something.

You'd manage that for at most two alt accounts, which means you'll be able to throw (with great effort) about 2 matches per 2 months for corps that have less strict SP requirements. For serious corps you'd probably have much more strict requirements, ever increasing as the game ages.

If you do not see how that raises the bar _VERY_ high then you're a scrublord who knows nothing. For some more on how to go the extra mile look up DNS' fanfest presentation.

Herp-a-derp.

I would define exploiting as players trying to gain an unfair advantage through the use or abuse of existing mechanisms through ways other than their intended use.

I seriously doubt this is what CCP intended for PC in it's game. Unless CCP wants to make 'the worst game ever' enemies joining your team to reduce your player count, increase theirs, team kill, and in essence "Screen look"... this is exploiting by at least my definition.


IF certain members want to suggest this is all just part of the game, then they truly do not have any interest in expanding or retaining Dust's player base and would rather the game self destruct than their corporation lose some districts. Ironically they still lose the districts because in this place Dust 514 goes under. Anyone with the interest of the community at heart should be disavowing these actions and encouraging CCP to fix the problem rather than continue to exploit it for short term personal gains.

Modded controllers are an offence as that is the use of a third party modification to your own benefit.

This however is a mechanic entirely faulted to the CEO's who let randomers into their corps.

So long, and thanks for all the tears.

For a guy claiming to know something about all this you seem pretty clueless.

Claiming the other guy must of 'done it to CoD clans' was the best line you used - lmao

And your completely wrong. Try to figure out how this game is broken before you go around claiming the rights to knowledge you don't have.

And your weak provocations to try to get me to reveal where my alts are is childs play. Get on my level scrub ;)

Why would I want to know your alts? Do you even know what my corps name means...

But nice dodging of the educational point of my post about the time investment (active time, not passive) required to get an alt through the (should have been obvious) basic vetting process.

Have fun playing My Little Pony Online.

You will cry most when we take everything you have, and honestly no one ever infiltrated N-F. This is concern for game not our personal and corp benefits. It must be hard to live with that kind of small capacity brain.

Hmm, the possibility about AWOXING PC battles was known for quite a while, just wondering why no one other took the advantage? (especially since I still see IMPs MCC camping)
If some very limited (yes limited, there are not many corps doing PC) griefing would be a reason not to be on the CPM then not a single Goon representative should be on the CSM ever. HTFU

Hmm, the possibility about AWOXING PC battles was known for quite a while, just wondering why no one other took the advantage? (especially since I still see IMPs MCC camping)
If some very limited (yes limited, there are not many corps doing PC) griefing would be a reason not to be on the CPM then not a single Goon representative should be on the CSM ever. HTFU

That is very much true. The CSM is currently dominated by the power blocs of New Eden and they were voted in by the players. That's saying something.

awoxing is absolutely too easy but shouldnt be impossible. Thats why im suggesting a role that is attached to being able to join corp matches, that way if the CEO/director trusts the wrong person, they only have themselves to blame

Problem will be fixed, but keep making more threads. If there's anything we need, it's MORE THREADS.

Even AWOX'ing aside, there are rookies that just stumble into the queue by accident and then the whole corp flips out on them because they are blocking a squad. It's funny after the fact but there's absolutely a crazy 3-minutes where its just hate spam, lol.

Hey mittens made it onto the CSM but I think I even voted for him at the time. He seemed to be a valuable member. The CPM is like PC right now. No way to kick a player and no way to remove them from the team. Please patch this. Jenza has had a nice bath, can we let the water out of the tub now?

awoxing is absolutely too easy but shouldnt be impossible. Thats why im suggesting a role that is attached to being able to join corp matches, that way if the CEO/director trusts the wrong person, they only have themselves to blame

Frankly, if you take people into PC that you can't trust implicitly, you're playing the game wrong.

Eve Online has a system in place called Fleets. Before a group of capsuleers go into battle, they often get into a fleet that requires the permission of the fleet commander to join. Once you are in the fleet you are given access to features such as warp-to-friend, broadcast target, broadcast location, fleet bonuses to your ship stats, etc. On top of that, the fleet commander can choose to setup the fleet to only accept members based on standings or make it completely open for everyone in the corp.

Dust can adopt a system like this for planetary conquest battles. Set the battle to only accept members who have earned a certain level of trust wiith the corp.

This will allow the CEO and his directors to mitigate the possibily of an awoxer coming in and destroying any chance of success. But notice I said mitigate and not prevent. If there is anything to learn from Eve Online is that no matter how strict the system is created by the player corps and their CEO the awoxer/spy/traitor/whatever will find a way to get in simply by virtue of gaining your trust and exploiting that trust he has been given when the time is right.

why do I need to explain something I already did? It wasn't a dodge - it was me giving you a hint to learn to read. Lol

Your corp must be sad that you fail this much at trolling.

[quote=CHICAGOCUBS4EVER] However, if a single spy gets into the game and manages to sabotage a key piece of the game midway through, why not reward him for that? Why allow him to be kicked and cause his actions to have no lasting consequence?

heh

On a serious note; learn to manage risk if you want to go above scrub.

On a troll note; your reference to my corp tells me you know nothing about sour veterinarians.

There's no need for risk management. I even know a neat trick to put a squad in PC without revealing the person who SL to put them there.

Either way - I want an alt in your corp :D May I put one of my SoTa toons in there? <3

Like I didn't already figure out a way to do this a week ago...

Actually found it quite funny that people were getting caught. (not just trolling, just lolling)



Please do, I'll even squad up for ambush matches and we can even chicken with LAVs if you want.

**** THREADNOUGHT ALERT ****

Lol, yet another awoxing thread that is turning into a threadnought, you guys just don't get it do you?

Fact 1 : CCP are fully aware of the situation. You guys do understand they actually designed the game to be like this right?

Fact 2 : Any act of awoxing by anyone including CPM members is 100% within the current rules. CCP with only change the rules if the devs and only the devs, think it needs changing.

Fact 3 : You have to accept that New Eden is a dark and harsh place where bad things happen. There are no rainbows or kittens or butterflies, if you want those things then I suggest Club Penguin may suit you better. If you decide to stay then stop moaning and watch your back because you may well end up with a nova knife in it courtesy of a fellow mercenary (Paid Soldier).

Fact 4 : I have not been so amused by carebear tears in a long time, thank you.

**** THREADNOUGHT ALERT ****

Lol, yet another awoxing thread that is turning into a threadnought, you guys just don't get it do you?

Fact 1 : CCP are fully aware of the situation. You guys do understand they actually designed the game to be like this right?

I see DUST Uni still has Spais.....guess they'll never learn. And you are bad @ Spaiwerk considering you publicised yourself, throwing caution to the wind. Bad Spy in Bad Corp, Balance achieved.

They already said they're going to make it harder.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=833365#post833365



Punishing CPM members involved would be stupid since they're just using the game mechanics CCP put in place.

I'm honestly surprised by how many players seem to think that the cloak and dagger meta in EVE can be described as the same phenomena displayed but leaning on an unfinished game mechanic within a barely past release build of D514.

**** THREADNOUGHT ALERT ****

Lol, yet another awoxing thread that is turning into a threadnought, you guys just don't get it do you?

Fact 1 : CCP are fully aware of the situation. You guys do understand they actually designed the game to be like this right?

Hey guys.

Cool thread, full of good ideas!

We agree that it would be better to be able to restrict access to PC battles, and are currently discussing how we would implement that.

What we are discussing is doing this in phases, i.e. start with giving CEO's and directors the ability to kick from matches, set roles on members that you want participating in PC matches, to forming up into larger teams prior to the PC match taking place. We will add this to the roadmap and share more details in few weeks time for feedback and discussion.

oh? "The game is designed to be like this"? Please read:



There ya go

Why would they fix something what was suppose be part of the game?

CCP are not fixing a broken mechanic, they are improving one that, at the moment, is working as designed

CCP are not fixing a broken mechanic, they are improving one that, at the moment, is working as designed

*Facepalm*...**** that...*facewall*...

Working as designed? if that was true then they won't be talking about CEO's being able to restrict access to PC.

fanboys and trolls, nothing more. Oh well, there's one more thing.
I won't mention it exactly, I'll let your imaginations run wild with this one. But it factors in largely and involves a certain kind of butt kissing, for a certain kind of reason, to a certain kind of person, cause of a certain kind of gender difference.

It's not an intellectual honest position to claim all this is working as intended or just a case of HTFU/ [Meta-Gaming]

Everyone knows this and the only ones claiming otherwise are players who need to exploit or currently are relying on it.

I think you might have misread or quoted the wrong person

It is simple.

The concept is intended... the inability of a corp to deal with the issue in a meaningful way is not.

I don't think we need all the text walls around here to fight about it.

You must be new around here.

awoxing is absolutely too easy but shouldnt be impossible. Thats why im suggesting a role that is attached to being able to join corp matches, that way if the CEO/director trusts the wrong person, they only have themselves to blame

New Eden's game environment is what sets it apart form most MMOs. And part of that is any way to grief other players and collect their tears.
History in Eve has enough examples showing players are always been looking for ways to utilize or break game mechanics to get an edge. It is not a matter of if, but only when this will happen.

So having members of the CPM actively voicing their support tells me to a few things:

- it brings awoxing under a spotlight and makes everyone aware of it

- some members of the CPM at least get what New Eden is all about

- they actually know game mechanics to a detail that allows them to abuse them. And to find other game imbalances along the way.

and let's look at the alternative to this situation:
Without both the scale and the vocal support through CPM (in parts), we wouldn't have this discussion at all.
...and CCP might not be looking at fixing roles, squads or corporations in the near future.
... and we would have a topic polarizing Dust players and thus driving conflict in game.
... and we couldn't point to this case of player griefing each other to attract new players to Dust.

anyway, just saying