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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1411
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 22:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:We don't need to kick them, just mark them as an enemy.
So a 16 on 16 just turned into a 15 on 17, you'll live. unless its 14 vs 18. But then It comes back to your gun game. If your corp is so called "BAD ASS" One player on your team should not have an issue against 2. 3 maybe. But it should be 1>2. This is still a fps by the slimmest margin, but still an fps. The issues is whose clones take the hit once you mark them red? The biggest issue isn't the team killing, its the ability for them to suicide and reduce your districts clone count. Spy keeps his last clone, once he dies he's out.
Or maybe the other team could share some love? |
Mithridates Vl
Imperfects Public Relations
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 22:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
I am for limiting entry to a match, but I believe a saboteur who is trusted to enter should be able to bring a squad with him without that squad being invited.
I am also against a kick function because it's too easy and makes infiltration less viable.
Rather, I would like to see those marked as traitors unable to respawn, so they only have a single clone to create havoc with. Sabotage needs to be capable of bringing down the match, IMO, though it needs to be made moredifficult. It should involve exploiting the trust of the team, rather than exploiting the mechanics of battle queuing.
I think that causing the team to be down as many players as betray them should be a lasting effect of the team allowing saboteurs in, so the saboteurs simply sit on the map with no clones available to them. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3213
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:My stand on this is simple.
1. Corporations should be able to restrict who and how players join
2. Corporations should be able to kick Crashers from a match
CCP had mentioned previously to the community wanting to put a roster system into the game and was unable to do so in time for the launch of Planetary Conquest. As it stands right now it is far too easy to infiltrate a match and requires no real breach of trust.
This breach of trust is what makes spying and espionage of value and a unique aspect of New Eden and should not be stamped out. As it stands now though, because there are no real game mechanics to control the matches, AWOXING is a broken game mechanic.
agreed someone should have to work their way into gettin roles to do this sort of thing atm its TOOO easy
this needs addressed ASAP or could break the game for the more casual peeps gettin into PC |
Deadeyes Anterie
Ill Omens EoN.
552
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:My stand on this is simple.
1. Corporations should be able to restrict who and how players join
2. Corporations should be able to kick Crashers from a match
CCP had mentioned previously to the community wanting to put a roster system into the game and was unable to do so in time for the launch of Planetary Conquest. As it stands right now it is far too easy to infiltrate a match and requires no real breach of trust.
This breach of trust is what makes spying and espionage of value and a unique aspect of New Eden and should not be stamped out. As it stands now though, because there are no real game mechanics to control the matches, AWOXING is a broken game mechanic.
Kain you are my personal CPM representative. You understand the issues and want to make the game better. This means better for the players and Corporations. I've got issue with other CPM members who seem to think meta game should trump the actual game. They might not play any PC so for them seeing more meta and tears is making Dust better, but the current system is quite broken. Had to kick out most of our members who joined since 5-14 because we are in a PC war. It's a shame for them, and us that this is the current battle queue system. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
528
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:My stand on this is simple.
1. Corporations should be able to restrict who and how players join
2. Corporations should be able to kick Crashers from a match
CCP had mentioned previously to the community wanting to put a roster system into the game and was unable to do so in time for the launch of Planetary Conquest. As it stands right now it is far too easy to infiltrate a match and requires no real breach of trust.
This breach of trust is what makes spying and espionage of value and a unique aspect of New Eden and should not be stamped out. As it stands now though, because there are no real game mechanics to control the matches, AWOXING is a broken game mechanic.
Agreed 100% Kain.
I would say that the mechanic whereby a corp member can bring a squad of outsiders into a match works fine and should stand as-is.
These two measures are all we need to balance that mechanic with a minimum of hand-holding.
As a third luxury mechanic, it would be nice if team leaders and directors could per-assign a roster and modify it on the fly.
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Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
254
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bravo Kane,
Most of us like the ability for this to happen, our issue is that there isn't a counter. The lack of MCC Commanders, Platoon Leaders and Squad Leaders with "real power" and relevant abilities to pre-form squads, kick people from the match or even from the War Room.
I'm excited that New Eden contains some of the most cerebral gamers and strategists/backstabbers that i'd heard so much about. I'm only asking for more options in regards to control over our corps. |
SoTa ReGnUM PoP
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
129
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
DS 10 wrote:SoTa of PoP wrote:Simply put - all of your guys's idea is indeed taking away from Meta.
I would prefer we find a balance of sabotage vs protection, and a kicking function simply eliminates sabotaging.
And I never said my idea was full proof - hehe.
If you infiltrate far enough to earn the right to enter PC without a squad leader - then you did what any good spy wants and to get kicked immediately trying after all the time you put getting the rank to get in there - would be silly. I disagree. Spies could actually...you know...do what spies do. Infiltrate, develop trust, gain access to alliance/corp plans of action, relay intel to home base, and potentially move up the ladder to perform more devious acts such as starting a mutiny or emptying corp wallets. AWOXing isn't spying. AWOXing is performing a Trojan. I don't remember mentioning other things spies could do. Simply that a kick option would take away sabotage. |
Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
I agree with alot said here on both sides.
We need to find a happy medium to this.
1 - It shouldnt be as simple as gaining membership into a corp to sabotage them
But
2 - CCP doesnt need to hand hold corps for being stupid and trusting the wrong people
A spy/Trojan should have to work at it to carry out a plan. I think the 'kick' feature would work well in this case as well. If someone is put in charge of a squad as the SL and has the power to kick, they could simply boot the whole squad at a key point in the match. This allows for some safeguard for the corps but also a way for a Trojan to still do damage |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
550
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1
walking out onto the street with a knife and stabbing the first person you see in the back is not betrayal its just stabbing a dude in the back.
This has about as much betrayal as sharing a cab with someone. |
Nguruthos IX
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
545
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:My stand on this is simple.
1. Corporations should be able to restrict who and how players join
2. Corporations should be able to kick Crashers from a match
CCP had mentioned previously to the community wanting to put a roster system into the game and was unable to do so in time for the launch of Planetary Conquest. As it stands right now it is far too easy to infiltrate a match and requires no real breach of trust.
This breach of trust is what makes spying and espionage of value and a unique aspect of New Eden and should not be stamped out. As it stands now though, because there are no real game mechanics to control the matches, AWOXING is a broken game mechanic.
100% |
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Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:My stand on this is simple.
1. Corporations should be able to restrict who and how players join
2. Corporations should be able to kick Crashers from a match
CCP had mentioned previously to the community wanting to put a roster system into the game and was unable to do so in time for the launch of Planetary Conquest. As it stands right now it is far too easy to infiltrate a match and requires no real breach of trust.
This breach of trust is what makes spying and espionage of value and a unique aspect of New Eden and should not be stamped out. As it stands now though, because there are no real game mechanics to control the matches, AWOXING is a broken game mechanic.
Kain Spero, Thank you for bringing this up. I believe that this is an acceptable solution to the problem and would very much like CCP to fix this aspect of PC ASAP. Especially given the lack of a need to gain trust to do this.
|
The Loathing
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
75
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
The Directors in game should be able to mark the infiltrator as red, yet they are always seen on the mini-map since they are coming in at friendly base spawn. But they should then be blocked from objective spawn and comms blocked.
The infiltrator still can mess things up from base spawn, but after they are revealed to the team they cannot undermine objectives.
A smart infiltrator will have gotten past the recruitment vetting, attained a spot in a PC match, and does team killing a little less obvious, or waits for their opportunity at Orbital Bombardment. The obvious attempts at sabotage would be shortlived if these measures were in place. |
noob cavman
Shadow Company HQ
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 01:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
Its broken by how easy it is. Where is the skill and reward? Where is the paranoia of thinking your going to be found out? Where is the long term planning and dedicated time to turly screw them to beyound recovery? Its great meta but right now its not worthy of the true spies time as there is no challenge or long term thrill. its just broken mechanic thats even letting people closer to vegetables do it. Thats what upsets me the most. |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax. CRONOS.
397
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
While I agree it should not be this easy, anyone who did not see this coming had their heads in the sand, and needs to recruit better.
Everyone is a spy, there are no other designations. they will steal everything that is not nailed down, and some of the stuff that is. They will screw your corp at the first chance they get, and the really good ones, make it look like someone else did it.
Lessons to be learned here, 1 Recruitment should never be, anyone who applies. 2 If you think you don't have spys in your corp, you are wrong. 3 Always expect your enemies to do the easiest thing possible for them to win. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1743
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:. 3 Always expect your enemies to do the easiest thing possible for them to win
lol
Trust me, only scrubby corps and players think this way. Real competitive gamers, and people with the slightest backbone and testicular fortitude have nothing to do with this lazy ass, none skilled, scrubby, **** stain you're trying to lay off as a tactic.
That's why you're in Betamax. Be happy with your blue donut, EZ mode, lazy ass way of playing a FPS. "Oh we're not good enough with guns, so let's exploit the **** mechanic CCP has in place, and call that "spy work".
Pathetic. Glad people like you have NOTHING to do with corps in EoN. |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:. 3 Always expect your enemies to do the easiest thing possible for them to win lol Trust me, only scrubby corps and players think this way. Real competitive gamers, and people with the slightest backbone and testicular fortitude have nothing to do with this lazy ass, none skilled, scrubby, **** stain you're trying to lay off as a tactic. That's why you're in Betamax. Be happy with your blue donut, EZ mode, lazy ass way of playing a FPS. "Oh we're not good enough with guns, so let's exploit the **** mechanic CCP has in place, and call that "spy work". Pathetic. Glad people like you have NOTHING to do with corps in EoN.
E-Honor will only get you wiped out in EVE. No one cares about your space bushido. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1422
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
lol@ people who think they're "spais" just cause they're applications got approved. EVE players are laughing as we speak. |
Abu Stij
Goonfeet
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:
lol
Trust me, only scrubby corps and players think this way. Real competitive gamers, and people with the slightest backbone and testicular fortitude have nothing to do with this lazy ass, none skilled, scrubby, **** stain you're trying to lay off as a tactic.
That's why you're in Betamax. Be happy with your blue donut, EZ mode, lazy ass way of playing a FPS. "Oh we're not good enough with guns, so let's exploit the **** mechanic CCP has in place, and call that "spy work".
Pathetic. Glad people like you have NOTHING to do with corps in EoN.
Apparently you've never played a CCP game before, nor understand the whole point of a game like DUST being part of EVE Online.
But sure bud, just keep pretending you're super special "honor" is of any value. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1422
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Maybe not all EVE players >.> |
Abu Stij
Goonfeet
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:lol@ people who think they're "spais" just cause they're applications got approved. EVE players are laughing as we speak.
Pretty sure they're laughing at the console babies making a stink about a mechanic that they've been working with for 10 years and haven't raised this much of a stink over.
It's even funnier that some of these EVE players are part of the AWOXing |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1422
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
Abu Stij wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:lol@ people who think they're "spais" just cause they're applications got approved. EVE players are laughing as we speak. Pretty sure they're laughing at the console babies making a stink about a mechanic that they've been working with for 10 years and haven't raised this much of a stink over. It's even funnier that some of these EVE players are part of the AWOXing So you're telling me that traitors can't get kicked from a fleet? |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
364
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
Abu Stij wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:
lol
Trust me, only scrubby corps and players think this way. Real competitive gamers, and people with the slightest backbone and testicular fortitude have nothing to do with this lazy ass, none skilled, scrubby, **** stain you're trying to lay off as a tactic.
That's why you're in Betamax. Be happy with your blue donut, EZ mode, lazy ass way of playing a FPS. "Oh we're not good enough with guns, so let's exploit the **** mechanic CCP has in place, and call that "spy work".
Pathetic. Glad people like you have NOTHING to do with corps in EoN.
Apparently you've never played a CCP game before, nor understand the whole point of a game like DUST being part of EVE Online. But sure bud, just keep pretending you're super special "honor" is of any value. He never said honor one time in his post, LOL
Some people prefer to actually play the game and shoot at people rather than try to fish for easy wins. That may be a foreign concept to someone as unskilled as you, but I assure you that's what he meant. |
Abu Stij
Goonfeet
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Abu Stij wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:lol@ people who think they're "spais" just cause they're applications got approved. EVE players are laughing as we speak. Pretty sure they're laughing at the console babies making a stink about a mechanic that they've been working with for 10 years and haven't raised this much of a stink over. It's even funnier that some of these EVE players are part of the AWOXing So you're telling me that traitors can't get kicked from a fleet?
Good "spais" don't get kicked from fleets, they take everything of value from the corp and run. But you are right, you can get kicked from a fleet if you Awox, but you're still on the grid and field of battle. All this talk about "you should be able to kick that player from the match" is sort of anti-CCP style AWOXing isn't it. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1423
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
All I'm saying is that joining a PC battle should be a bit harder than just being allowed into a corp.
And yes, I don't think "spies" should get kicked, but we should be able to mark them as an enemy and make it so that they're cut off from our clone supply. If they're going to shoot at me, then I want to shoot back at them without losing WP for it. |
Abu Stij
Goonfeet
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
King Kobrah wrote: He never said honor one time in his post, LOL
Some people prefer to actually play the game and shoot at people rather than try to fish for easy wins. That may be a foreign concept to someone as unskilled as you, but I assure you that's what he meant.
Oh look, its the guy who left last time we spoke because he couldn't handle the discussion.
Yes, the simple minded like to point their bang bang stick and shoot reds. We who enjoy more complex things than just simplistic and repetitive gameplay enjoy something called "meta-gaming" and have a long history of doing this. You might want to look up EVE Online and its 10 years of history full of players who do just this, and so much more.
And thanks for trying to assert I'm "unskilled" at this game. It's an interesting stance really, I seem to have a better grasp at more than the "point and shoot" mechanics CCP has implemented and said they'd include into the game. Your posts just continue to show how salty you get when your little group of friends get roughed up by people who are, in all facets of life, better than you. We know how to play this game in a far greater scale than you could possibly imagine, and yet you try to e-thug. Its adorable really.
Now, I'll ask you to take a seat and just let the big boys do the talking. That's a dear. |
Imp Smash
On The Brink CRONOS.
95
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 04:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
I agree there needs a prevention mechanism in place. I think kicking mid match is not it. Once they are there and on the ground they are there. The ability to green light who and who can't join a battle in the first place is pretty good. The ability to eject people from the match if they are on the war barge is also good. I don't know how you'd delegate that power out though... Directors or director assigned squad leaders?
Hmmm....this is a tough one |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1423
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 04:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:I agree there needs a prevention mechanism in place. I think kicking mid match is not it. Once they are there and on the ground they are there. The ability to green light who and who can't join a battle in the first place is pretty good. The ability to eject people from the match if they are on the war barge is also good. I don't know how you'd delegate that power out though... Directors or director assigned squad leaders?
Hmmm....this is a tough one I just want a little gold star by my name |
Abu Stij
Goonfeet
37
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 04:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:All I'm saying is that joining a PC battle should be a bit harder than just being allowed into a corp.
And yes, I don't think "spies" should get kicked, but we should be able to mark them as an enemy and make it so that they're cut off from our clone supply. If they're going to shoot at me, then I want to shoot back at them without losing WP for it.
Currently the mechanic is far too easy to exploit and AWOXing has no "rush" that you would find doing similarly in EVE.
A better mechanic would be to not have an "kick from match" mechanic as that is fairly silly. Your character is on the battlefield, there is no logical reason he should be removed from the match. In EVE when you awox and get kicked from fleet you're still on the field. One person suggested that the "AWOXer be moved to the other team" so that in essence you go from a 16vs16 match to say an 15vs17 match. That's something that is fairly reasonable and most could agree is acceptable for an in-game mechanic to prevent AWOXing during the middle of the match.
One thing most people seem incapable of doing is having preventative measure against possible awoxers joining their corp. These would be having prerequisites and requirements to be a member of the corp. You see it all the time, GoonSwarm only allows people from the SA community, TEST only allows (in general) people from the Reddit community etc . etc.. The only possible step to take beyond that, at present, is for CCP to set up an API system so you can see a potential recruits corp history and see if they were ever part of an AWOX group, an AWOX victim, or even have shared Intel on flagged AWOXers (though presently a Google doc works pretty well for the latter of those examples).
It's quite an interesting hurdle the design team have to overcome, but the more people play with the system and find all the "issues" with it, the more likely a fair and balanced approach will be taken to make AWOXing a more challenging meta-game mechanic. |
Odiain Suliis
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
153
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 04:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:We don't need to kick them, just mark them as an enemy.
So a 16 on 16 just turned into a 15 on 17, you'll live. unless its 14 vs 18. But then It comes back to your gun game. If your corp is so called "BAD ASS" One player on your team should not have an issue against 2. 3 maybe. But it should be 1>2. This is still a fps by the slimmest margin, but still an fps. The issues is whose clones take the hit once you mark them red? The biggest issue isn't the team killing, its the ability for them to suicide and reduce your districts clone count. I really don't want/need a kick feature. Only the ability to choose who in the corp will be allowed to deploy squads/teams into PC battles. If a spy manages to get those and sabotages the battle, well gg sir well played. The clone used for his spawn his lost immediately, every death after that is paid by the other side.
Problem with this marking the infiltrator red and then the infiltrator using the 'enemys' clones is that this opens up a whole new can-of-worms.
Suppose the 'infiltrator' and his corp mark the infiltrator intentionally 'red' just to deplete the enemys clones faster. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
367
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 04:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Abu Stij wrote:King Kobrah wrote: He never said honor one time in his post, LOL
Some people prefer to actually play the game and shoot at people rather than try to fish for easy wins. That may be a foreign concept to someone as unskilled as you, but I assure you that's what he meant.
Oh look, its the guy who left last time we spoke because he couldn't handle the discussion. Yes, the simple minded like to point their bang bang stick and shoot reds. We who enjoy more complex things than just simplistic and repetitive gameplay enjoy something called "meta-gaming" and have a long history of doing this. You might want to look up EVE Online and its 10 years of history full of players who do just this, and so much more. And thanks for trying to assert I'm "unskilled" at this game. It's an interesting stance really, I seem to have a better grasp at more than the "point and shoot" mechanics CCP has implemented and said they'd include into the game. Your posts just continue to show how salty you get when your little group of friends get roughed up by people who are, in all facets of life, better than you. We know how to play this game in a far greater scale than you could possibly imagine, and yet you try to e-thug. Its adorable really. Now, I'll ask you to take a seat and just let the big boys do the talking. That's a dear. Pretty sure this is the 4th wall of text I've gotten you to rattle off today, and they all boil down to one or two fallacies and ad hominem attacks. You're trying so hard to make some kind of a convoluted point about "meta-gaming" taking any amount of skill or complexity when that's obviously not the case here...have you even played this game?
i'll give it a 2/10 for getting me to reply |
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